Author Topic: DIY: Make your own Pectin  (Read 21793 times)

Offline archer

  • Administrator
  • Ultimate Survival Veteran
  • *******
  • Posts: 17126
  • Karma: 382
  • #ImissAmerica
    • Journey to Greener Pastures
DIY: Make your own Pectin
« on: August 14, 2009, 01:10:51 PM »
One skill to learn for when SHTF and the stores are not open.....
--------------
Making Your Own Apple Pectin
By Sam Thayer
From The Forager. Volume 1, Issue 3. August-September 2001
When making homemade jams and jellies, commercial powdered pectin is usually the most expensive ingredient. A few generations ago, powdered pectin wasn't readily available, and the skill of making pectin at home was common knowledge for the family cook - yet today it is a rare individual who knows how to do this. I learned how to extract pectin from apples a few years ago when I made jams and jellies for a living (as many as 600 jars per day). Not only does this save money, but more importantly, it provides the satisfaction that only comes with doing things from scratch - one of the reasons that I love using wild foods.
see below for rest of article....
--------------

Commercial Pectin Comparisons and info:
http://www.pickyourown.org/pectin.htm

How to make it suggestions:
http://www.motherearthnews.com/Real-Food/1980-05-01/Make-Your-Own-Pectin.aspx
http://www.wildflowers-and-weeds.com/The_Forager/pectin.htm
http://www.pickyourown.org/makeyourownpectin.htm

Offline Pathfinder

  • Survival Demonstrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 2102
  • Karma: 97
Re: DIY: Make your own Pectin
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2009, 03:29:44 PM »
GF tried to make apple pectin a few months ago - did not work, the blueberry jam didn't set up. Don't know what went wrong, but then she is not big on learning from mistakes so it wouldn't matter if we did know what went wrong. So I ended up buying a bunch of boxes. Now I will make my own, won't rely on anyone else.

Offline Morning Sunshine

  • Geese Smuggling Moonbat
  • Survival Veteran
  • ********
  • Posts: 6573
  • Karma: 312
  • There are no mistakes, just Learning Experiences
Re: DIY: Make your own Pectin
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2009, 03:37:23 PM »
this is something about which I have wondered.  Thank you for posting.

until I get to that point however, I would like to plug Pomona Pectin.  You can buy it in bulk and the recipes are easy to follow, double or half (the last being particularly nice when you are talking huckleberries, and you are lucky to get just enough berries for a half batch!) as needed.  That is what I am planning to put in my storage to use while I am trial-and-erroring my homemade pectin.  I bought a hlaf-pound 2 years ago and have been very pleased.

Fixing the link even though it was corrected down below.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2011, 09:52:26 AM by fritz_monroe »

Offline archer

  • Administrator
  • Ultimate Survival Veteran
  • *******
  • Posts: 17126
  • Karma: 382
  • #ImissAmerica
    • Journey to Greener Pastures
Re: DIY: Make your own Pectin
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2009, 04:08:05 PM »
this is something about which I have wondered.  Thank you for posting.

until I get to that point however, I would like to plug pamonapectin.com.  You can buy it in bulk and the recipes are easy to follow, double or half (the last being particularly nice when you are talking huckleberries, and you are lucky to get just enough berries for a half batch!) as needed.  That is what I am planning to put in my storage to use while I am trial-and-erroring my homemade pectin.  I bought a hlaf-pound 2 years ago and have been very pleased.
And thank you Morning Sunshine for telling us about this. I'll have to look into it. The little boxes are so expensive.

Offline archer

  • Administrator
  • Ultimate Survival Veteran
  • *******
  • Posts: 17126
  • Karma: 382
  • #ImissAmerica
    • Journey to Greener Pastures
Re: DIY: Make your own Pectin
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2009, 04:09:47 PM »

Offline LvsChant

  • Resident Master Mudder
  • Global Moderator
  • Survival Veteran
  • ******
  • Posts: 7817
  • Karma: 614
Re: DIY: Make your own Pectin
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2009, 12:49:21 PM »
Wow! That Pomona pectin sounds pretty good... and the site says it will keep for a long while. I'm interested in trying out both... but it may have to be next year... I have almost all the jam jars filled already this summer...

Thanks +1 to Archer and +1 to Morning Sunshine

Offline Morning Sunshine

  • Geese Smuggling Moonbat
  • Survival Veteran
  • ********
  • Posts: 6573
  • Karma: 312
  • There are no mistakes, just Learning Experiences
Re: DIY: Make your own Pectin
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2009, 02:52:56 PM »
sorry about the link... I was in a hurry.
Archer, I do not know if it is cheaper per batch of jam than the boxed stuff, which you can sometimes get REALLY cheap indeed at end-of-the-season time.  Let me say what I like about it:
it lasts a long time.
I can adjust the recipe to account for the amount of berries I have (this is the best feature, IMHO)
I do not have to use 8 c of sugar to 6 c of fruit
      low-sugar jams taste more like the fruit, and less like sugar
          they do mold easier once the jar is open, so I do mine in half-pint jars, we just open them more often
          they also discolor - if you are used to bright red strawberry jam, well, low-sugar jam turns kind of brownish.  tastes yummy - like strawberries - but off-color
      with pamona you can use other sweeteners - I did some strawberry with honey.  Won't do it again - the honey is too strong of a flavor for berries, but it is possible, which is nice to know if SHTF!
         when we were doing huckleberries a few weeks ago, my mom was using splenda in her jam, and it was the same pectin I was using with the sugar, and I had used with the honey - so I do not need to buy lots of different formulations for the various sweeteners

and frankly, it may be a while before I am able to get around to making my own pectin.  with 4 small children, I need to be honest with myself.  there are other priorities  :P

Offline Morning Sunshine

  • Geese Smuggling Moonbat
  • Survival Veteran
  • ********
  • Posts: 6573
  • Karma: 312
  • There are no mistakes, just Learning Experiences
Re: DIY: Make your own Pectin
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2009, 03:14:12 PM »
okay, I am almost out of my pamona, so I went to the website to order some more.  
1lb = $48  I just about died.  I do not remember it being so much!
but, 1lb = 16oz
the box of ball pectin from the store was 1.75 oz for $2.50, or $22.86 per pound.
BUT that is 2.50 per batch.
I measured 2 t of pamona (use for 4 c, average, of fruit + 2 c sugar = 5-6 half-pints of jam; jelly takes twice the pectin, so 4 t for the 4 c fruit and 2 c sugar; I do not remember the numbers for freezer jam) and it didn't even register on my ounce scale; switched it to grams, and it was 6 g.
so..... 453.6 g in 1 pound; 75.6 batches of jam in a pound of pamona pectin, so about $.64 per batch of jam.

okay, so that was too confusing for me.... I made a spreadsheet
                         fruit        pectin      lemon juice   sugar          yield (cups)
strawberry jam     4 c         6 g                               2 c              5
strawberry jam     5 c        49 g          ¼ c               7 c              8
               
currant jelly          4 c        12 g                              2 c              5
currant jelly         6.5 c       49 g                              7 c            10
      
pectin type        g/package      $/package       $/batch jam             $/batch jelly               $/ jar jam             $/ jar jelly    
pamona pectin   453.6 g         $48.00           .64/batch jam       1.27/batch jelly            .13/ jar jam           .25/ jar jelly
Ball pectin            49 g            $2.50          2.50/batch jam       2.50/batch jelly            .31/ jar jam            .25/ jar jelly


so, make your own conclusions.  dh, when he saw the chart, said "well, this tells us that sugar is cheaper than real food!"
my thoughts are, well, pamona is not MORE expensive, and as far as jam goes, it is cheaper.... so I am going to go with it.  and, there is a note on here that says "keeps indefinitely" so I figure it is a good investment of my money.

Offline archer

  • Administrator
  • Ultimate Survival Veteran
  • *******
  • Posts: 17126
  • Karma: 382
  • #ImissAmerica
    • Journey to Greener Pastures
Re: DIY: Make your own Pectin
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2009, 05:23:03 PM »
so, make your own conclusions.  dh, when he saw the chart, said "well, this tells us that sugar is cheaper than real food!"
my thoughts are, well, pamona is not MORE expensive, and as far as jam goes, it is cheaper.... so I am going to go with it.  and, there is a note on here that says "keeps indefinitely" so I figure it is a good investment of my money.
Thanks Morning Sunshine. I am thinking about getting a half pound. How long did your stash last? How does the pamona pectin strawberry jam taste compared to the ball pectin jam?

Offline Morning Sunshine

  • Geese Smuggling Moonbat
  • Survival Veteran
  • ********
  • Posts: 6573
  • Karma: 312
  • There are no mistakes, just Learning Experiences
Re: DIY: Make your own Pectin
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2009, 08:56:10 PM »
Thanks Morning Sunshine. I am thinking about getting a half pound. How long did your stash last? How does the pamona pectin strawberry jam taste compared to the ball pectin jam?

I honestly do not think you can do a straight apples-to-apples comparison between the two finished products.  or even the unfinished - comparing the pectins was giving me fits!  weight was way off - 6 g vs 49, but the cost, and then the added sugar but the amount of fruit.....  hence the chart :)

we like the pamona jams better, but that is because they are low sugar.  we liked the ball pectin low-sugar jams better than the regular (before we found pamona) because then the jam tastes like strawberries, not sugar.  I mean, look at that - 4c fruit + 2c sugar vs 5c fruit + 7c sugar.  the low sugar tastes like the fruit, and that is yummy.  I honestly cannot remember if the low-sug Ball is better or not than the pamona.  sorry.

as for how long it lasted..... I have had my 1/2 pound for 3 jamming seasons now.  but we did almost no jams last year.  I think it would totally depend on how much jam you do.  I am trying to add up how many batches of jam I have done, and it was at least 25 that I can remember.  probably more, but like I said, I cannot remember.  I did around 12 in the last month while we were in Idaho picking huckleberries.  plus 3 batches of jelly.  and 4 batches, maybe 5 of strawberry jam this spring.

and you will want to make sure you water-bath these - there is not enough sugar in them to keep out bacteria in the old "pour in the hot jam, put on lids, and tip over" method.  trust me.  I lost my first 4 batches from doing that.  I cried.

pamona is more work.  and you need more fruit to get the same amount of jars as the regular pectin.  but it is so worth it.  the taste of strawberries (or raspberries or huckleberries) shines without the cover of sugar.  you can use honey instead of sugar, if for some reason you cannot get sugar.

Offline archer

  • Administrator
  • Ultimate Survival Veteran
  • *******
  • Posts: 17126
  • Karma: 382
  • #ImissAmerica
    • Journey to Greener Pastures
Re: DIY: Make your own Pectin
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2009, 10:47:36 AM »
I honestly do not think you can do a straight apples-to-apples comparison between the two finished products.  or even the unfinished - comparing the pectins was giving me fits!  weight was way off - 6 g vs 49, but the cost, and then the added sugar but the amount of fruit.....  hence the chart :)

we like the pamona jams better, but that is because they are low sugar.  we liked the ball pectin low-sugar jams better than the regular (before we found pamona) because then the jam tastes like strawberries, not sugar.  I mean, look at that - 4c fruit + 2c sugar vs 5c fruit + 7c sugar.  the low sugar tastes like the fruit, and that is yummy.  I honestly cannot remember if the low-sug Ball is better or not than the pamona.  sorry.

as for how long it lasted..... I have had my 1/2 pound for 3 jamming seasons now.  but we did almost no jams last year.  I think it would totally depend on how much jam you do.  I am trying to add up how many batches of jam I have done, and it was at least 25 that I can remember.  probably more, but like I said, I cannot remember.  I did around 12 in the last month while we were in Idaho picking huckleberries.  plus 3 batches of jelly.  and 4 batches, maybe 5 of strawberry jam this spring.

and you will want to make sure you water-bath these - there is not enough sugar in them to keep out bacteria in the old "pour in the hot jam, put on lids, and tip over" method.  trust me.  I lost my first 4 batches from doing that.  I cried.

pamona is more work.  and you need more fruit to get the same amount of jars as the regular pectin.  but it is so worth it.  the taste of strawberries (or raspberries or huckleberries) shines without the cover of sugar.  you can use honey instead of sugar, if for some reason you cannot get sugar.
Thanks for your help Morning sunshine. I bought a box of pamona last night to try over the weekend. I used a normal Sure-Jell last weekend, (5c of strawberries, 7c of sugar) and want to try the pomana to see how it tastes. And reduce the amount of sugar used. I also want to try using honey. The strawberries I have I picked and are so sweet already. Don't want to cover the taste with the sugar.
I went out an bought a water bath canner. Works pretty well, just need to adapt the rack to handle half pint jars.

Offline Morning Sunshine

  • Geese Smuggling Moonbat
  • Survival Veteran
  • ********
  • Posts: 6573
  • Karma: 312
  • There are no mistakes, just Learning Experiences
Re: DIY: Make your own Pectin
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2009, 11:28:05 AM »
Thanks for your help Morning sunshine. I bought a box of pamona last night to try over the weekend. I used a normal Sure-Jell last weekend, (5c of strawberries, 7c of sugar) and want to try the pomana to see how it tastes. And reduce the amount of sugar used. I also want to try using honey. The strawberries I have I picked and are so sweet already. Don't want to cover the taste with the sugar.
I went out an bought a water bath canner. Works pretty well, just need to adapt the rack to handle half pint jars.

let me know how they compare.  I am curious.
I have remembered a difference between the low-sugar Ball and the pamona - the l-s Ball finished jam was runny, more like a chunky "butter" instead of thick jelled jam.  with the pamona I have not had that problem - my jam is jam-like.
also, be warned on using honey.  I like the idea of it, and I like the fact that I will probably be able to get honey LONG after sugar is all gone in a SHTF, and use that to make jam.  But honey has such a strong flavor that it can cover the taste of the fruit.  but neighbors to whom I gave the honey-jam LOVED it.

Offline LvsChant

  • Resident Master Mudder
  • Global Moderator
  • Survival Veteran
  • ******
  • Posts: 7817
  • Karma: 614
Re: DIY: Make your own Pectin
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2009, 11:13:32 AM »
I'm trying out making my own pectin today... will then try making a batch of jam... I'll keep you posted.

Offline Morning Sunshine

  • Geese Smuggling Moonbat
  • Survival Veteran
  • ********
  • Posts: 6573
  • Karma: 312
  • There are no mistakes, just Learning Experiences
Re: DIY: Make your own Pectin
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2009, 11:32:10 AM »
I'm trying out making my own pectin today... will then try making a batch of jam... I'll keep you posted.


cool cannot wait for the info!!!!

Offline archer

  • Administrator
  • Ultimate Survival Veteran
  • *******
  • Posts: 17126
  • Karma: 382
  • #ImissAmerica
    • Journey to Greener Pastures
Re: DIY: Make your own Pectin
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2009, 01:52:52 PM »
I'm trying out making my own pectin today... will then try making a batch of jam... I'll keep you posted.
Good luck! I"m going to do some tests with the pomana pectin Morning Sunshine told us about.

Offline Morning Sunshine

  • Geese Smuggling Moonbat
  • Survival Veteran
  • ********
  • Posts: 6573
  • Karma: 312
  • There are no mistakes, just Learning Experiences
Re: DIY: Make your own Pectin
« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2009, 02:17:02 PM »
Okay, Archer, lvschant,

what are the results of your pectin experiments?
Archer - you were going to compare the pomona to your low-sugar ball - how did it go?
lvschant - what kind of jam did you make with your homemade pectin?  How did it turn out?

updates please!  I just bought 2 flats of raspberries and 2 of blackberries and more jam jars and am about to finish off the pectin in my cupboard!  I need to order more!  Now.  Yesterday.  last week, even!

oh, and while on the site, I saw this little gem of info: "* Concentrated and economical -- each box makes two to four recipes. "  each box is one ounce.  so one ounce of pectin makes 4 recipes of jam and 2 of jelly.  so a pound has 16 ounces, meaning 64 batches of jam.  which fits my experience that the half-pound made at least 25 (that I could recall and count) batches of jam and jelly, since it would be 32 batches of jam in a 1/2 pound.

Offline Morning Sunshine

  • Geese Smuggling Moonbat
  • Survival Veteran
  • ********
  • Posts: 6573
  • Karma: 312
  • There are no mistakes, just Learning Experiences
Re: DIY: Make your own Pectin
« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2009, 03:06:15 PM »
okay, now I am trying to decide.....

I have just discovered pomona @ Amazon..... I can get 6 1-oz boxes for $21.51; the 1/2 pound from pomonapectin.com is 29.25
that  means to get the same amount (24 oz) I would have to order:
4 of the 6 1-oz at 86.04
3 of the 1/2-pound bulks at 87.75
so it is cheaper to do the boxes.  but.....

that is a lot of smaller boxes instead of one large container of the bulk.
it is cheaper in the boxes, but more inconvenient?   ???
thinking thinking thinking....
what do you think?

Offline Morning Sunshine

  • Geese Smuggling Moonbat
  • Survival Veteran
  • ********
  • Posts: 6573
  • Karma: 312
  • There are no mistakes, just Learning Experiences
Re: DIY: Make your own Pectin
« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2009, 03:20:28 PM »
further thinking:
it qualifies for the free shipping over $25 at Amazon, so shipping is also cheaper if I buy 2 6-packs (which I was rather planning to do anyway, or rather was planning on a 1-lb bulk order); only I cannot find a shipping charge on the pomona website.  so, is the shipping free (included in the cost?) or do they add that in later?
but, the 1-lb bulk is still cheaper by a long shot
but, the individual boxes would keep the pectin from getting contaminated (or spilled), which has crossed my mind every time I open my bulk bag.

Offline LvsChant

  • Resident Master Mudder
  • Global Moderator
  • Survival Veteran
  • ******
  • Posts: 7817
  • Karma: 614
Re: DIY: Make your own Pectin
« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2009, 02:29:42 PM »
i've been a slug and have not yet used the pectin I made using apples... I'll make a small batch (probably only 3-4 1/2 pint jars) of blueberry when I get the chance. I just want to try it out and see how it works in a small batch first. I have about 1 1/2 gallons of frozen blueberries...

Offline archer

  • Administrator
  • Ultimate Survival Veteran
  • *******
  • Posts: 17126
  • Karma: 382
  • #ImissAmerica
    • Journey to Greener Pastures
Re: DIY: Make your own Pectin
« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2009, 09:20:50 PM »
Archer - you were going to compare the pomona to your low-sugar ball - how did it go?

oh, and while on the site, I saw this little gem of info: "* Concentrated and economical -- each box makes two to four recipes. "  each box is one ounce.  so one ounce of pectin makes 4 recipes of jam and 2 of jelly.  so a pound has 16 ounces, meaning 64 batches of jam.  which fits my experience that the half-pound made at least 25 (that I could recall and count) batches of jam and jelly, since it would be 32 batches of jam in a 1/2 pound.
Sorry, was out of town last week.
I did 3 patches, 1 with normal pectin and 2 with pomona. Not much difference in the resulting jam as to consistency. But I prefer the Pomona recipe. It uses less sugar so you actually taste the strawberries. The pomona recipe with honey is great, the strawberries and honey complement each other very nicely. I'll be doing this more often.
I like the price vs batches on the pomona. Even for the small boxes, you can get 3-4 times more than with a normal pectin. It's a little more involved to use, but well worth the little bit of extra effort.

Offline LvsChant

  • Resident Master Mudder
  • Global Moderator
  • Survival Veteran
  • ******
  • Posts: 7817
  • Karma: 614
Re: DIY: Make your own Pectin
« Reply #20 on: March 03, 2011, 05:45:12 AM »
Jackie Clay (one of the best references for canning, imo) sent this out on her article from "Ask Jackie" today:

Pectin is best made from fresh, solid, tart apples that are a little on the green side. Tart crabapples make the best pectin. To make it, slice whole, unpeeled apples into fairly small pieces. Then add water and lemon juice and boil. (You’ll want about 6 pounds of apples to 1/2-gallon of water and 4 Tbsp. lemon juice.) Boil until reduced by half, then strain the juice through a jelly bag. Return to heat and simmer for 20 minutes longer. Pour into hot, sterilized canning jars, leaving 1/4 inch of headspace. Process as for apple juice in a water bath canner.

The amount you’ll use in a recipe depends on the pectin content of the fruit. For apple jelly, you won’t even need any; for strawberry, you’ll need more, as strawberries are low in pectin. Generally, about 2/3 cup of homemade pectin will set 4 cups of fruit or juice, but you’ll have to experiment and check the set as the mixture boils by taking out a teaspoonful and cooling it. You may need to add more pectin if it doesn’t seem to be setting to your liking. — Jackie


http://www.backwoodshome.com/blogs/JackieClay/

Offline Nicodemus

  • HooHa Man! AKA Docs Whipping Boy
  • Moderator On Leave
  • Survival Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 8429
  • Karma: 182
  • Wake up and smell the cat food n your bank account
Re: DIY: Make your own Pectin
« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2011, 06:08:45 AM »
I love when these little gems (posts) resurface...

Offline witchywoman

  • Fledgling Prepper
  • *
  • Posts: 5
  • Karma: 1
Re: DIY: Make your own Pectin
« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2011, 06:41:16 PM »
I was wondering about how to do this and my mom didn't quite remember.  Thank you so much for posting this.  I've already printed it and it's in my cooking/canning/preserving binder, lol.

I am going to be taking a stab at making wild plum jelly this year.  We just checked the trees today at the farm and they are so full of blooms.  Even more than last year.  They grow wild at our farm but we are treating them more like fruit trees that we bought and giving them the TLC.

Offline LvsChant

  • Resident Master Mudder
  • Global Moderator
  • Survival Veteran
  • ******
  • Posts: 7817
  • Karma: 614
Re: DIY: Make your own Pectin
« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2011, 07:08:48 PM »
I'll bet you'll end up with wonderful produce from your trees... Please let us know how your foray into making your own pectin goes...

Offline witchywoman

  • Fledgling Prepper
  • *
  • Posts: 5
  • Karma: 1
Re: DIY: Make your own Pectin
« Reply #24 on: April 25, 2011, 12:28:00 PM »
I sure will.  I'm excited to give it a whirl. ;D

Offline mash

  • Dedicated Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 1061
  • Karma: 36
  • it's spork-tastic!
Re: DIY: Make your own Pectin
« Reply #25 on: April 25, 2011, 02:55:05 PM »
My 7 YO daughter and I were just sitting down yesterday for some toast with jam, I was really rollin' along with the story of how jam is made, fruit and sugar, pectin, pressure cooking, mason jars....

"What's pectin dad?"

"Well now honey, pectin is, um. Well it's a natural, er, well what I mean to say is, uh."   :o

Thanks Archer, now I know.

Offline archer

  • Administrator
  • Ultimate Survival Veteran
  • *******
  • Posts: 17126
  • Karma: 382
  • #ImissAmerica
    • Journey to Greener Pastures
Re: DIY: Make your own Pectin
« Reply #26 on: April 25, 2011, 05:03:41 PM »
glad to help.

Offline fritz_monroe

  • The Defenestrator
  • Administrator
  • Survival Veteran
  • *******
  • Posts: 8748
  • Karma: 159
    • The Homestead Fritz
Re: DIY: Make your own Pectin
« Reply #27 on: August 24, 2011, 09:57:40 AM »
Bumping the thread since it's jelly/jam making season.

Offline Roswell

  • Search And Destroy
  • Moderator On Leave
  • Survival Demonstrator
  • *
  • Posts: 4367
  • Karma: 102
  • Posts REALLY REALLY ugly pictures...
    • Making A Homestead, One Day at a Time
Re: DIY: Make your own Pectin
« Reply #28 on: January 24, 2012, 10:00:38 AM »
With the help from this thread I made my own pectin last week.  I had frozen all my apple peels when I made applesauce.  It turned out pretty well. You can see the whole process on my blog...

http://makingahomestead.com/2012/01/18/diy-making-pectin/


Offline LvsChant

  • Resident Master Mudder
  • Global Moderator
  • Survival Veteran
  • ******
  • Posts: 7817
  • Karma: 614
Re: DIY: Make your own Pectin
« Reply #29 on: January 24, 2012, 06:20:55 PM »
+1 Ros. I'm planning to try it out myself when we get to the homestead.