Author Topic: Virus accidentally released from lab ?  (Read 26361 times)

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Virus accidentally released from lab ?
« Reply #120 on: March 07, 2020, 09:34:15 PM »
https://ukranews.com/en/amp/news/688287-coronavirus-spread-due-to-leak-from-secret-laboratory-in-china-danilov
Coronavirus Spread Due To Leak From Secret Laboratory In China – Danilov

The National Security and Defense Council's Secretary Oleksii Danilov has said that the spread of the Covid-19 coronavirus resulted from a leak from a secret laboratory in Wuhan (China).

Danilov said this in an interview with Ukrainian Radio, Ukrainian News Agency reports.

“It all came from a city there. It is Wuhan, where an F-4 closed laboratory is located. We believe that there was a leak from this laboratory ... A powerful laboratory was launched there in 2015. We believe that the leak occurred there, "he said.

According to Danilov, China has taken strong measures to localize the virus.

He stressed that China closed Wuhan because it understood what was happening in the city.

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Virus accidentally released from lab ?
« Reply #121 on: March 09, 2020, 12:01:53 PM »
Dr. Francis Boyle, one of the lead authors of the Biological Weapons Anti-Terrorism Act of 1989 chimed in with his official opinion in early February.  But note, reported fatality statistics were much higher then so his opinion on it being a bioweapon may have changed (though Wuhan Lab being source probably not).

https://greatgameindia.com/transcript-bioweapons-expert-dr-francis-boyle-on-coronavirus/

Well, that’s a lot of questions. I guess we can take them one at a time, but if you just do a very simple Google search on “Does China have a BSL-4 laboratory?”, Wuhan comes up right away. It’s at the top of the list. That’s all with the moment this type of thing happened I began to do that. So a BSL-4 is the most serious type. And basically BSL-4 labs, we have many of them here in the United States, are used to develop offensive biological warfare weapons with DNA genetic engineering.

So it does seem to me that the Wuhan BSL-4 is the source of the coronavirus. My guess is that they were researching SARS, and they weaponize it further by giving it a gain of function properties, which means it could be more lethal.

Indeed, the latest report now is it’s a 15% fatality rate, which is more than SARS at 83% infection rate. A typical gain of function travels in the air so it could reach out maybe six feet or more from someone emitting a sneeze or a cough. Likewise, this is a specially designated WHO research lab. The WHO was in on it and they knew full well what was going on there.

Yes. It’s also been reported that Chinese scientists stole coronavirus materials from the Canadian lab at Winnipeg. Winnipeg is Canada’s formal center for research, developing, testing, biological warfare weapons. It’s along the lines of Fort Detrick here in the United States of America. I have three degrees from Harvard. It would not surprise me if something was being stolen out of Harvard to turn over to China. I read that report. I don’t know what was in those vials one way or the other.

But the bottom line is I drafted the US domestic implementing legislation for the Biological Weapons Convention that was approved unanimously by both Houses in the United States Congress signed into law by President Bush Sr. that it appears the coronavirus that we’re dealing with here is an offensive biological warfare weapon that leaped out of Wuhan BSL-4. I’m not saying it was done deliberately. But there had been previous reports of problems with that lab and things leaking out of it. I’m afraid that is what we are dealing with today.

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Virus accidentally released from lab ?
« Reply #122 on: March 09, 2020, 12:34:49 PM »
Huge news!  Chinese government and Wuhan lab admit that Covid-19 is a specific strain of bat coronavirus stored at the lab with just the insertions which make it contageous to humans being added.  This confirms the findings of the Indian, Taiwanese, American, South African, Canadian, UK, and scientists from other countries.  Talk about a complete 180 after pressuring others to retract their studies.  It also matches previous modifications the scientists were making in other experiments to understand how viruses make the leap to humans (documented above).

So now that they admit it is real, they are putting forth a complicated "recombination" theory to explain how this could happen in nature with multiple other animals passing it back and forth with bats to explain the vastly low probability that only those specific changes would have occured in such a short time period.  Of course, no such intemidiate stages of the viruses or Covid-19 itself have been identified in any animals to date.  So extraordinarily low possibility it was natural.  But they have to try in attempt to save face and stem international outrage, lawsuits, etc.

At least they admit the other scientists were right.  Hopefully their papers will now be republished and the damage to their careers caused by the propoganda attacks are undone.

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.02.974139v2
A novel bat coronavirus reveals natural insertions at the S1/S2 cleavage site of the Spike protein and a possible recombinant origin of HCoV-19
The unprecedented epidemic of pneumonia caused by a novel coronavirus, HCoV-19, in China and beyond has caused public health concern at a global scale. Although bats are regarded as the most likely natural hosts for HCoV-19, the origins of the virus remain unclear. Here, we report a novel bat-derived coronavirus, denoted RmYN02, identified from a metagenomics analysis of samples from 227 bats collected from Yunnan Province in China between May and October, 2019. RmYN02 shared 93.3% nucleotide identity with HCoV-19 at the scale of the complete virus genome and 97.2% identity in the 1ab gene in which it was the closest relative of HCoV-19. In contrast, RmYN02 showed low sequence identity (61.3%) to HCoV-19 in the receptor binding domain (RBD) and might not bind to angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 (ACE2). Critically, however, and in a similar manner to HCoV-19, RmYN02 was characterized by the insertion of multiple amino acids at the junction site of the S1 and S2 subunits of the Spike (S) protein.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2020, 12:40:14 PM by iam4liberty »

Offline Mr. Bill

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Re: Virus accidentally released from lab ?
« Reply #123 on: March 09, 2020, 01:26:51 PM »
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.02.974139v2
A novel bat coronavirus reveals natural insertions at the S1/S2 cleavage site of the Spike protein and a possible recombinant origin of HCoV-19
The unprecedented epidemic of pneumonia caused by a novel coronavirus, HCoV-19, in China and beyond has caused public health concern at a global scale. Although bats are regarded as the most likely natural hosts for HCoV-19, the origins of the virus remain unclear. Here, we report a novel bat-derived coronavirus, denoted RmYN02, identified from a metagenomics analysis of samples from 227 bats collected from Yunnan Province in China between May and October, 2019. RmYN02 shared 93.3% nucleotide identity with HCoV-19 at the scale of the complete virus genome and 97.2% identity in the 1ab gene in which it was the closest relative of HCoV-19. In contrast, RmYN02 showed low sequence identity (61.3%) to HCoV-19 in the receptor binding domain (RBD) and might not bind to angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 (ACE2). Critically, however, and in a similar manner to HCoV-19, RmYN02 was characterized by the insertion of multiple amino acids at the junction site of the S1 and S2 subunits of the Spike (S) protein.

Why did you omit the last two sentences of the abstract?

Quote
Abstract

The unprecedented epidemic of pneumonia caused by a novel coronavirus, HCoV-19, in China and beyond has caused public health concern at a global scale. Although bats are regarded as the most likely natural hosts for HCoV-19, the origins of the virus remain unclear. Here, we report a novel bat-derived coronavirus, denoted RmYN02, identified from a metagenomics analysis of samples from 227 bats collected from Yunnan Province in China between May and October, 2019. RmYN02 shared 93.3% nucleotide identity with HCoV-19 at the scale of the complete virus genome and 97.2% identity in the 1ab gene in which it was the closest relative of HCoV-19. In contrast, RmYN02 showed low sequence identity (61.3%) to HCoV-19 in the receptor binding domain (RBD) and might not bind to angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 (ACE2). Critically, however, and in a similar manner to HCoV-19, RmYN02 was characterized by the insertion of multiple amino acids at the junction site of the S1 and S2 subunits of the Spike (S) protein. This provides strong evidence that such insertion events can occur in nature. Together, these data suggest that HCoV-19 originated from multiple naturally occurring recombination events among those viruses present in bats and other wildlife species.

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Virus accidentally released from lab ?
« Reply #124 on: March 09, 2020, 01:36:22 PM »
Why did you omit the last two sentences of the abstract?

What are you suggesting?   I covered it explicitely in the introduction:

So now that they admit it is real, they are putting forth a complicated "recombination" theory to explain how this could happen in nature with multiple other animals passing it back and forth with bats to explain the vastly low probability that only those specific changes would have occured in such a short time period.  Of course, no such intemidiate stages of the viruses or Covid-19 itself have been identified in any animals to date.  So extraordinarily low possibility it was natural.  But they have to try in attempt to save face and stem international outrage, lawsuits, etc.

But the circular logic they deployed is brilliant.  We "know" it didnt occur in lab therefore this is "strong evidence" it occured in nature..

And it has been amazing to see the Chinese position evolve.  First the insertions were a hoax and didnt really exist. Then they were artifacts of testing. Then they were misidentified.  Now they happen all the time naturally and it is just coincidence that we were experimenting with just such insertions for the last three years.  Brilliant.  Best propoganda since Chernobyl.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2020, 01:53:42 PM by iam4liberty »

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Virus accidentally released from lab ?
« Reply #125 on: March 09, 2020, 02:00:21 PM »
Indian study is back up.  Others arent.

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.01.30.927871v1
Uncanny similarity of unique inserts in the 2019-nCoV spike protein to HIV-1 gp120 and Gag

We are currently witnessing a major epidemic caused by the 2019 novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV). The evolution of 2019-nCoV remains elusive. We found 4 insertions in the spike glycoprotein (S) which are unique to the 2019-nCoV and are not present in other coronaviruses. Importantly, amino acid residues in all the 4 inserts have identity or similarity to those in the HIV-1 gp120 or HIV-1 Gag. Interestingly, despite the inserts being discontinuous on the primary amino acid sequence, 3D-modelling of the 2019-nCoV suggests that they converge to constitute the receptor binding site. The finding of 4 unique inserts in the 2019-nCoV, all of which have identity /similarity to amino acid residues in key structural proteins of HIV-1 is unlikely to be fortuitous in nature. This work provides yet unknown insights on 2019-nCoV and sheds light on the evolution and pathogenicity of this virus with important implications for diagnosis of this virus.

Offline David in MN

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Re: Virus accidentally released from lab ?
« Reply #126 on: March 09, 2020, 03:24:48 PM »
Well how would we make heads or tails of any data? The Chinese are so dependable in their data that they are hosting "thank you" events for the government responding so quickly and decisively. They did exactly nothing for 6 weeks (best guess) and then locked people in their apartments.

For whatever shortcomings international disease prevention had (and it's forgivable that they had some stumbling blocks on short notice) their first 2 months of research were completely fabricated by the Chinese. In the most critical time the Chinese did... Nothing. So even if we go in wanting to know what the exact vector was to humans they have ignored and falsified the data.

What this means going forward is that we will never know. And more importantly, the Chinese have proven they can't manage this kind of thing so internationally we need to stop in assisting China with acquiring these diseases for testing. We had to wait for Japan, Italy, and Iran to have serious issues before we had accurate patient histories and proper medical response.

The sad truth is that the Chinese couldn't care less if this disease was born in a lab or a swamp or some food market. That's an untrustworthy global partner. The Chinese have a lot of people and I'm sure some really good doctors and engineers. But their government will just whitewash the whole event. It's not like here where the CDC would leave no stone unturned and go back to primary sources. They'll just announce whatever they want and that's it.

You wouldn't do business with a chemical company that dumps in the river. You wouldn't work with a company that won't provide PPE. China has no interest to find a root cause to a global pandemic and we should lay a lot of bodies at their feet. They no longer have the gravitas to work with such things. I'm not sure where this virus originated (none of us are) but I am sure the Chinese don't care. So we'll ride this roller coaster again.

Hey it's not like this one country gave us corona, SARS, bird flu, H1N1, the Spanish flu, Black death....... If they don't care about the origin the way the rest of the world would we're not going to fix it over here. This disease didn't become a problem because of a lab or a market. It comes from Beijing.

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Virus accidentally released from lab ?
« Reply #127 on: March 09, 2020, 03:43:53 PM »
But here's the thing.  If it did evolve naturally in the wild then there must be a large stock of infected animals.  Therefore priority must be given to finding this stock so that it dosent spread or reemerge later.  This is standard protocol.  You find the animal source and then purge it.

But, now they have reportedly stopped all animal testing in the search of such a stock.  So anyone supporting the communist party theory must admit they are either completely incompetant (and therefore their level 4 lab should be closed) or that they know it did come from the lab and are covering it up (and therefore the lab should be closed).  Either way, that lab should be closed ASAP for everyone's safety.

So how does the communist party respond?  By saying that the virus didnt originate in China let alone Wuhan!  And now they released the bots on social media to say it is racist to say Wuhan Coronavirus or China Coronavirus.  Despite that diseases are typically classified by origin or area hit hard; Spanish Flu, MERS, etc.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2020, 04:04:51 PM by iam4liberty »

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Virus accidentally released from lab ?
« Reply #128 on: March 09, 2020, 04:30:24 PM »
http://www.thetribunepapers.com/2020/03/07/china-media-launches-major-disinformation-offensive-on-coronavirus/
China Media launches major disinformation offensive on Coronavirus

China’s state-run propaganda outlets are circulating false stories on the coronavirus situation in the United States in order to take the focus away from the origin of the outbreak and criticism of the communist regime’s handling of it in China, reports say.

The disinformation campaign is painting the coronavirus in the United States as being more severe than in China. Some propaganda outlets are even claiming that the virus originated in the U.S. — with others going so far as to claim the virus is a CIA bioweapon.

“We clearly see that the coronavirus epidemic in China is very severe, which is totally different from what government authorities claim. Chinese people see for themselves what is happening around them,” Tang said.

U.S.-based China commentator Tang Jingyuan said he believes the regime of Chinese supreme leader Xi Jinping is purposefully using the U.S. outbreak to mislead Chinese citizens about the current outbreak within its own borders.

Thus, the Chinese regime hopes to shift people’s focus to the United States as a distraction, Tang said:

“It tries to fool people into thinking the virus is from the United States, and have Chinese people show hatred toward the U.S. Then, they won’t think about what the Beijing regime is doing.”

By emphasizing coronavirus outbreaks outside of China, the communist regime “can tell people that China has a better system,” Tang said.

Offline Mr. Bill

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Re: Virus accidentally released from lab ?
« Reply #129 on: March 09, 2020, 09:02:23 PM »
Indian study is back up.  Others arent.

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.01.30.927871v1
Uncanny similarity of unique inserts in the 2019-nCoV spike protein to HIV-1 gp120 and Gag

That's still the same article, and it says "Withdrawn" right above the title.

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Virus accidentally released from lab ?
« Reply #130 on: March 09, 2020, 09:26:35 PM »
That's still the same article, and it says "Withdrawn" right above the title.

That is the point! 

it was the first study verifying the connection to Wuhan lab bats and the "mysterious" insertions which made it capable of infecting humans.

Under pressure from China, the media maligned the authors and forced it from circulation. The recent communist party blessed article confirms the findings. As I stated above it is a complete reversal by the communists.  "First the insertions were a hoax and didnt really exist. Then they were artifacts of testing. Then they were misidentified.  Now they happen all the time naturally and it is just coincidence that we were experimenting with just such insertions for the last three years." 

Now the original article is reposted in all the archives.  It is still withdrawn until they officially resubmit.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2020, 09:51:44 PM by iam4liberty »

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Virus accidentally released from lab ?
« Reply #131 on: March 09, 2020, 09:47:14 PM »
Uh oh.  One year ago from our favorite progressive science league.

https://thebulletin.org/2019/02/human-error-in-high-biocontainment-labs-a-likely-pandemic-threat/amp/
Human error in high-biocontainment labs: a likely pandemic threat

Incidents causing potential exposures to pathogens occur frequently in the high security laboratories often known by their acronyms, BSL3 (Biosafety Level 3) and BSL4. Lab incidents that lead to undetected or unreported laboratory-acquired infections can lead to the release of a disease into the community outside the lab; lab workers with such infections will leave work carrying the pathogen with them. If the agent involved were a potential pandemic pathogen, such a community release could lead to a worldwide pandemic with many fatalities. Of greatest concern is a release of a lab-created, mammalian-airborne-transmissible, highly pathogenic avian influenza virus, such as the airborne-transmissible H5N1 viruses created in the laboratories of Ron Fouchier in the Netherlands and Yoshihiro Kawaoka In Madison Wisconsin.

Such releases are fairly likely over time, as there are at least 14 labs (mostly in Asia) now carrying out this research. Whatever release probability the world is gambling with, it is clearly far too high a risk to human lives. Mammal-transmissible bird flu research poses a real danger of a worldwide pandemic that could kill human beings on a vast scale.
...
Understanding human error is important to calculating the probability that a pathogen will be released from a lab into the surrounding community, the first step in calculating the likelihood of a pandemic.  A key observation is that human error in the lab is mostly independent of pathogen type and biosafety level. Analyzing the likelihood of release from laboratories researching less virulent or transmissible pathogens therefore can serve as a reasonable surrogate for how potential pandemic pathogens are handled.
...
But the high percentage of human error reported here calls into question claims that state-of-the-art design of BSL3, BSL3+ (augmented BSL3), and BSL4 labs will prevent the release of dangerous pathogens. How much lab-worker training might reduce human error and undetected or unreported laboratory acquired infections remains an open question. Given the many ways by which human error can occur, it is doubtful that Fouchier’s human-error-prevention measures can eliminate release of airborne-transmissible avian flu into the community through undetected or unreported lab infections.
...
The probability of release into the community. In an analysis circulated at the 2017 meeting for the Biological Weapons Convention, a conservative estimate shows that the probability is about 20 percent for a release of a mammalian-airborne-transmissible, highly pathogenic avian influenza virus into the community from at least one of 10 labs over a 10-year period of developing and researching this type of pathogen. This percentage was calculated from FSAP data for the years 2004 through 2010.

Analysis of the FOIA NIH data gives a much higher release probability—that is, a factor five to 10 times higher, based on a smaller number of incident reports.

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Virus accidentally released from lab ?
« Reply #132 on: March 10, 2020, 10:10:35 AM »
https://www.jewishpress.com/indepth/opinions/coronavirus-chinas-war-on-the-truth/2020/03/09/
Coronavirus: China’s War on the Truth

“On current course, China is liable to do significant damage to the rest the world, by accident or intent,” wrote columnist Daniel Henninger in the Wall Street Journal on January 29.

“The Chinese Communist government increasingly poses an existential threat not just to its own 1.4 billion citizens but to the world at large”, wrote the noted historian Victor Davis Hanson on February 20.

According to The Sunday Times,

“Chinese laboratories identified a mystery virus as a highly infectious new pathogen by late December last year, but they were ordered to stop tests, destroy samples and suppress the news, a Chinese media outlet has revealed.

“A regional health official in Wuhan, centre of the outbreak, demanded the destruction of the lab samples that established the cause of unexplained viral pneumonia on January 1. China did not acknowledge there was human-to-human transmission until more than three weeks later.

“The detailed revelations by Caixin Global, a respected independent publication, provide the clearest evidence yet of the scale of the cover-up in the crucial early weeks when the opportunity was lost to control the outbreak.”
...
“Censorship. It can have deadly consequences,” said US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo on February 25. “Had China permitted its own and foreign journalists and medical personnel to speak and investigate freely, Chinese officials and other nations would have been far better prepared to address the challenge.”
...
Meanwhile, China’s war on the truth marches on. The laboratory of the Shanghai Health Center was closed on January 12, one day after Professor Zhang Yongzhen’s team revealed the sequence of the coronavirus genome on open platforms. The Chinese regime prevented its scientists from finding ways to contain the epidemic. Their “crime”? Releasing the sequence to the world before the Chinese authorities did.

“The epidemic has exposed this country completely in its corruption, bureaucracy, information control and censorship,” said Phillip Wu, a freelance writer in Beijing. And if you think the Chinese regime is meddling only in its own country, read a recent British report revealing how China is also curbing academic freedom in the UK.

Zeng Yingchun and Zhen Yan, two nurses from Wuhan, the epicenter of the coronavirus, wrote a dramatic letter for the medical journal The Lancet, in which they asked the international scientific community for help:

“The conditions and environment here in Wuhan are more difficult and extreme than we could ever have imagined. There is a severe shortage of protective equipment, such as N95 respirators, face shields, goggles, gowns, and gloves. The goggles are made of plastic that must be repeatedly cleaned and sterilised in the ward, thereby making them difficult to see through.”

One day later, the nurses requested that their letter be withdrawn.

The Chinese regime arrested Li Wenliang, the doctor who had issued the first admonition about the epidemic that soon killed him. On December 30 he had sent out a warning to his fellow medical workers, but police told him to stop “making false comments“. Many journalists told the truth, but were arrested or “vanished.” Social media in China talked about the virus weeks before the government did. Now the Chinese communist regime is announcing plans to publish a book in six languages about the outbreak; the book portrays President Xi as a “major power leader” with “care for the people”.

At the Wuhan Institute of Virology, scientists carry out research at a laboratory that has the highest level of biological containment on the mainland, to study the world’s “most dangerous pathogens”. That the coronavirus might be related to Wuhan’s virus research laboratory is considered by some a “conspiracy theory,” but China’s refusal immediately to accept help from the US Centers for Disease Control understandably arouses suspicion. According to Paul Wolfowitz, former President of the World Bank and former US Deputy Secretary of Defense:

“The fact that Wuhan is home to China’s advanced virus research laboratory known as the Wuhan Institute of Virology, which does some classified work for the Chinese military, has predictably generated speculation that the novel Corona virus might have somehow leaked out of that institute.”

“Don’t buy China’s story: The coronavirus may have leaked from a lab”, wrote Steven Mosher, an expert on China, in The New York Post.

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Virus accidentally released from lab ?
« Reply #133 on: March 12, 2020, 01:45:57 PM »
This pretty much confirms it.  China's government always accuses others of what they themselves have done.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/china-smear-united-states-coronavirus-wuhan.amp
Inside China's high-stakes campaign to smear the United States over coronavirus

If you listened to Chinese state-run media, you'd think President Trump went to China and released vials of COVID-19 on groups of unsuspecting men, women and children.

Beijing has been bending over backward trying to convince the world that the United States is the real culprit behind the quickly spreading virus that's already claimed more than 4,600 lives across the globe.

It's a high-stakes strategy for the Asian nation fighting to keep its superpower status amid a national lockdown and palpable anger over claims that Wuhan, China, the epicenter of the coronavirus, at first covered it up, triggering a worldwide health and economic crisis.
...
At best, China's aggressive new campaign can be chalked up to ambitious propaganda.  At its worst, it's a reckless display from a country that has actively misled the world while working overtime to save its own skin, foreign affairs expert Gordon G. Chang told Fox News.

Chang believes Beijing has been laying the groundwork for a PR attack against the United States for more than a month, first by throwing doubt on the origin of COVID-19 and second, by slamming America's handling of previous diseases like the swine flu, which decimated China's pork industry.
...
On Thursday, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian tweeted that the U.S. military might have brought the coronavirus to Wuhan.

“When did patient zero begin in US? How many people are infected? What are the names of the hospitals? It might be US army who brought the epidemic to Wuhan. Be transparent! Make public your data! US owe us an explanation!” Zhao said.
...
A few days earlier, Lin Songtian, China's ambassador to South Africa, said: "Although the epidemic first broke out in China, it did not necessarily mean that the virus is originated from China, let alone 'made in China.'"
...
Vague and misleading statements like the one from Lin are ripped right out of China's propaganda playbook and attempt to sow doubt about the global crisis.

Chinese officials have also pushed back on the expression "Wuhan coronavirus" -- saying the name used frequently by U.S. conservative commentators unfairly stigmatizes the world's most populous country.

Chang said it's just another tactic in China's playbook, carefully choreographed to make Americans look petty and racist.

"This an all-out assault on the United States," Chang said.

In December, when the coronavirus was first detected in Wuhan, many media around the world began referring to it as the "Wuhan virus."
...
“The Chinese military portal Xilu.com recently published an article baselessly claiming that the virus is ‘a biochemical weapon produced by the U.S. to target China,’"
...
"It's more than just some disinformation or an official narrative," Xiao Qiang, an adjunct professor at the University of California at Berkeley's Schools of Information, told The Washington Post. "It's an orchestrated, all-out campaign by the Chinese government through every channel at a level you rarely see. It's a counteroffensive."

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Virus accidentally released from lab ?
« Reply #134 on: March 13, 2020, 03:33:23 PM »
Uh oh.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/03/13/politics/state-department-chinese-ambassador-coronavirus/index.html
US summons Chinese ambassador over coronavirus conspiracy theory

US Assistant Secretary of State David Stilwell summoned China's ambassador in Washington to the State Department Friday morning, hours after a prominent Chinese official suggested that the US military may have been responsible for bringing the coronavirus to Wuhan, the epicenter of the global pandemic.

That claim was publicly promoted by China's Foreign Ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian on Thursday, who pointed to remarks made by Centers for Disease Control and Prevention l director Robert Redfield as proof of a growing conspiracy theory that the coronavirus did not originate in central China, as previously thought, and may have been brought there by the US Army.
...
The State Department believes that China is seeking to deflect criticism for its role in "starting a global pandemic and not telling the world," the official told CNN

Offline CandyGram4Mongo

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Re: Virus accidentally released from lab ?
« Reply #135 on: March 15, 2020, 06:29:43 AM »
Interesting article asserting that some lab workers sell infected lab animals to bolster their income:
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/03/the_wuhan_virus_escaped_from_a_chinese_lab.html

Worse yet, the virus may have been released by underpaid researchers who sold contaminated lab animals to make a little extra cash on the side: ( https://www.marketwatch.com/story/dont-buy-chinas-story-the-coronavirus-may-have-leaked-from-a-lab-2020-02-22)

And then there is this little-known fact: Some Chinese researchers are believed to sell laboratory animals to street vendors after they have finished experimenting on them[.] ...

Instead of properly disposing of infected animals by cremation, as the law requires, they sell them on the side to make a little extra cash.  Or, in some cases, a lot of extra cash.  One Beijing researcher, now in jail, made the equivalent of a million dollars selling monkeys and rats on the live animal market, whence they likely wound up in someone's stomach.


No smoking gun but more dots to connect...

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Re: Virus accidentally released from lab ?
« Reply #136 on: March 15, 2020, 08:17:10 AM »
Many articles on this outside the US media.  Iran's former president, who is a regular envoy for Iran to UN, sent letter to UN president claiming evidence that China leaked virus from one of the Wuhan labs and calling for international panel to investigate.  China still refuses to release any facility records to WHO despite obligations. 

https://londonlovesbusiness.com/ex-iranian-president-says-covid-19-is-a-bio-weapon-made-in-a-lab/
Ex Iranian President says Covid-19 is a ‘bio-weapon’ made in a lab

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Virus accidentally released from lab ?
« Reply #137 on: March 18, 2020, 12:49:12 PM »
Nothing to see here.  Move on.  This is why journalists are being expelled.  Independent lab isolated the virus which would allow tracing to origin.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/chinese-scientists-destroyed-proof-of-virus-in-december-rz055qjnj
Chinese scientists destroyed proof of virus in December

A regional health official in Wuhan, centre of the outbreak, demanded the destruction of the lab samples that established the cause of unexplained viral pneumonia on January 1. China did not acknowledge there was human-to-human transmission until more than three weeks later.

The detailed revelations by Caixin Global, a respected independent publication, provide the clearest evidence yet of the scale of the cover-up in the crucial early weeks when the opportunity was lost to control the outbreak.

Censors have been rapidly deleting the report from the Chinese internet.


Offline David in MN

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Re: Virus accidentally released from lab ?
« Reply #138 on: March 19, 2020, 12:00:12 PM »
I have heard conflicting views on whether this was a lab accident and even so far that this was an intentionally derived bioweapon. I'm not an expert in RNA structure and I can't possibly make an informed decision.

But I keep coming back to that wonderful Tommy Lee Jones line: I don't care.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FdvXl5GAes

We don't really need to prove this to hold the Chinese government accountable. There's enough done with their data fabrication and their imprisoning those who warned the world that there could well be a trial at the Hague. I realize it's all the sexy virtue signal nonsense to not call it a "Chinese flu" but when we emerge from this there might well be a few million dead because the Chinese policy was to deny and imprison and falsify reports when human life hung in the balance.

What gets me is that the best case Chinese position is one where they jailed whistleblowers and let this get out. This from the fine government that let out MURS, SARS, bird flu, swine flu, H1N1, fill in the blank here, etc. China is our Typhoid Mary. And when the smoke clears there better be hell to pay for their practices.

And by the by, if it comes out that this really is just eating bats who was the government that so starved its people that they EAT BATS? It all comes full circle to that horrible government and they need some accountability.

Offline LvsChant

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Re: Virus accidentally released from lab ?
« Reply #139 on: March 19, 2020, 02:34:15 PM »
You might also be interested in Stefan Molyneaux's guest on his YT vid today:

https://youtu.be/J6VEYzwSdZU

Offline David in MN

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Re: Virus accidentally released from lab ?
« Reply #140 on: March 19, 2020, 03:33:32 PM »
You might also be interested in Stefan Molyneaux's guest on his YT vid today:

https://youtu.be/J6VEYzwSdZU

I listened though I must confess Molyneaux has gotten near insufferable to me these days. The problem I have is that while I do believe there could be credible claims that this disease was a lab test gone wrong (and with the Chinese looking for a SARS cure it's not a big leap) I have no way of verifying it personally. Genetics and biomedical engineering are very niche and any guess I could venture wouldn't be worth the paper it was written on.

My point is more along the line of... let me word it this way... If the "wet market" story is true the Chinese lied about the disease to the WHO and put lives at risk. Here in the states we call a careless and wanton act that disregards human life manslaughter. That's the best case scenario. I'd argue that falsifying data is a premeditated malice and I wouldn't balk at a human rights tribunal. The CCP is culpable for not sounding the alarm and alerting the rest of the world, to say nothing of the millions of Chinese citizens put at risk as they shuffled papers and denied anything was wrong.

That's why we will never get the origin carved in stone and it doesn't matter. The good story is awful.

Offline surfivor

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Re: Virus accidentally released from lab ?
« Reply #141 on: March 20, 2020, 09:03:41 AM »
 If you think facts should be obtained and investigations launched then you probably need to be somewhat vocal and adamant about it. Likewise if you believe that bio weapons research is dangerous, questionable and unnecessary then that too should be a priority. I think it is more dangerous than is worth it

 It is entirely possible to launch investigations and establish some facts but people seem uninterested or very lukewarm about it and nothing every happens. They just go with the ocams razir explanations

 If some commission similar to the warren commission or 911 commission seems to be a scam then demands should be that they are dismissed. If they can't do a proper investigation then the default position should be against all bio weapons research which is my default position anyway, that is ban all such bio weapon research
« Last Edit: March 20, 2020, 09:10:11 AM by surfivor »

Offline LvsChant

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Re: Virus accidentally released from lab ?
« Reply #142 on: March 20, 2020, 09:55:36 AM »
I'm doubtful that anything in terms of any repercussions will happen to the Chinese in legal terms...

But, I'm also guessing that countries around the world are going to rethink the idea of letting a country run by Communist dictators take care of most of our manufacturing needs in the future. It may take some time, but I'm thinking we may see a resurgence of manufacturing in our own countries, particularly for critical healthcare needs, etc.

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Virus accidentally released from lab ?
« Reply #143 on: March 20, 2020, 10:45:33 AM »
If they can't do a proper investigation then the default position should be against all bio weapons research which is my default position anyway, that is ban all such bio weapon research

This is a good point.  Before this happened many scientists warned that that the level 4 lab in Wuhan was unsafe.  And that hasnt changed.  And what we have learned now is China is willing to hide incidents and destroy evidence. Heck, they cant even stop their scientists from doing rogue genetic modifications on babies or smuggling dangerous biological agents through airports in their socks.   They simply arent prepared to maintain such a lab and this is a legitimate threat to the human race on par with the cold war nuclear threat.  We need better treaties on this ASAP.

I'm doubtful that anything in terms of any repercussions will happen to the Chinese in legal terms...

But, I'm also guessing that countries around the world are going to rethink the idea of letting a country run by Communist dictators take care of most of our manufacturing needs in the future. It may take some time, but I'm thinking we may see a resurgence of manufacturing in our own countries, particularly for critical healthcare needs, etc.

Absolutely.  But there is one thing which the US government is doing, cracking down on US scientists who are making millions selling sensitive IP to China and helping them set up secret labs.  We dont let physicists provide nuclear technology that can be weaponized to other countries. It is highly watched.  Everyone keeps track of scientists who have worked in defense facilities.  For example, when I travel to UK they intercept me at airport and I have to go into a room and explain why I am there.   But biochemists have been spreading even more dangerous technology with impunity.  Believe me, this is coming to a hard stop with some very prominent figures finding themselves behind bars to send this message.  And the universities are taking note and putting in place systems so they arent further embroiled in these scandals.

Offline Gamer

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Re: Virus accidentally released from lab ?
« Reply #144 on: March 24, 2020, 05:15:43 AM »
Topic: Virus accidentally released from lab ?
-----------------------------------------------------

Check out the prophetic opening titles from 'Survivors' (1975) and watch the rest of the episode if you like for a step-by-step account of what happens as a pandemic begins to bite-

https://youtu.be/zAyjkaFYnzE

Offline Morning Sunshine

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Offline Mr. Bill

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Re: Virus accidentally released from lab ?
« Reply #146 on: March 24, 2020, 09:23:12 AM »
MODS: Can we get a separate sub-category for all COVID-related threads?  It would make it easier to find the one I am looking for.

Done.  Good idea.

If y'all find any more topics we should move, please hit that "Report to moderator" link and tell us.  Thanks!

Offline Morning Sunshine

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Re: Virus accidentally released from lab ?
« Reply #147 on: March 24, 2020, 10:12:41 AM »
Done.  Good idea.

If y'all find any more topics we should move, please hit that "Report to moderator" link and tell us.  Thanks!

thank you!

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Virus accidentally released from lab ?
« Reply #148 on: March 27, 2020, 06:08:13 PM »
Scientists strike out in finding matching Covid-19 virus in Pangolins. There is still zero evidence for the intermediate animal theory.  Media tries to spin exactly the opposite.

https://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/illegally-trafficked-pangolins-found-to-carry-coronaviruses-related-to-pandemic-strain/

Bats have unusually proactive immune systems, which have a nasty habit of crafting viral strains that are hugely infectious and often deadly, as they’re essentially trained up while incubating in the bat’s body.  They’re known carriers of the two coronaviruses SARS and MERS and are the most likely source of the current SARS-CoV-2 currently sweeping the globe. However, it’s thought that the COVID-19 coronavirus had to pass through a “middle man” before spreading to humans. A paper published in the journal Nature has identified closely related coronaviruses of the pandemic strain in pangolins. Although the research doesn't suggest pangolins are directly involved in the spread of the current outbreak, it does show them to be capable of hosting coronaviruses, and thus their trafficking and consumption should be halted to minimize the risk of potential future transmission.

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Virus accidentally released from lab ?
« Reply #149 on: March 27, 2020, 06:13:04 PM »
Newsweek actually does a balanced job, despite the deceptive, click-baity headline.  92.4 percent is a very poor match.  One thing no-one has done so far is point out who funded this research. 

https://www.newsweek.com/scientists-strains-coronaviruses-covid-19-pangolins-1494686
Scientists Find Strains of Coronaviruses Closely Related to COVID-19 virus in Pangolins

. Three samples from three pangolins came back as positive, showing an 85.5 percent to 92.4 percent genetic sequence similarity to SARS-CoV-2.
...
But Professor Andrew Cunningham, Deputy Director of Science, Zoological Society of London (ZSL), said it was important not to jump to too many conclusions.

"While the paper is interesting, it is important not to overinterpret the results," he told Newsweek. "While it is possible that pangolins might be able to act as natural or intermediate—possibly amplifier—hosts for SARS-CoV-2, the publication does not provide enough evidence to come to this conclusion."

He also said claims that pangolins being the only species of mammal besides bats to harbour coronaviruses like these are misleading, explaining: "We already know that a wide range of mammals are hosts to coronaviruses—and they are just the ones in which coronaviruses have been looked for."

Last year, Cunningham co-authored a paper on beta coronaviruses found in British hedgehogs, a group that contains SARS coronaviruses.