Author Topic: Road Trip  (Read 209 times)

Offline ttubravesrock

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Road Trip
« on: January 07, 2019, 07:42:41 PM »
I live in the Fairbanks Alaska area. Starting this weekend, I'll be driving though Region 8 via Vancouver, Seattle, Portland, down the coast before heading East from Big Sur towards Tucson then TX. After TX, we head back up through the more direct route.

What places do you recommend I check out? Maybe there's a place where I can pick up some good gear? Good food? Good (winter) hiking? Good rockhounding/beach combing? Places to avoid?

Are there any good apps/websites for me to be aware of that have info that would be important to me?

We'll be tent camping once we get south of Washington, so if you have any spots that you recommend camping or NOT camping, let me know!

Like I said, we live in Fairbanks, so our vehicle is already decked out with -40 survival equipment, and our camping gear. Any other sage advice?
We're familiar with road trips, but this will definitely be our longest road trip ever!

Offline Mr. Bill

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Re: Road Trip
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2019, 08:51:16 AM »
That's such a huge road trip, I don't know what to suggest!

In the "good food" category, if you're adventurous you can find any ethnicity of restaurant in existence somehwere in the Seattle or Portland or San Francisco areas.

What are you looking to get out of the trip?

Offline surfivor

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Re: Road Trip
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2019, 10:29:03 AM »

In Alaska I guess the winter is 8 months long so anyplace a little warmer may sound good


Offline FreeLancer

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Re: Road Trip
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2019, 02:36:00 PM »
Olympic Peninsula, Columbia River Gorge, Crater Lake, Redwoods, Yosemite, and Grand Canyon.

Oregon has no sales tax.

Offline ttubravesrock

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Re: Road Trip
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2019, 03:12:12 PM »
It's sounding like we'll be wanting to spend more time in Oregon. Lots of interesting things to check out. We both love the outdoors, and my wife is a geologist.

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: Road Trip
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2019, 04:30:45 PM »
Yellowstone is awesome in the winter if you can fit it in on your way back north.  Tetons, too.

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: Road Trip
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2019, 04:45:07 PM »
You could squeeze in Death Valley between Yosemite and Grand Canyon.  The east side of the Sierras is incredibly rugged, and there's only 85 miles between the highest point in the lower 48 to the lowest spot in North America.  And the Mojave is beautiful in winter, without the heat and mirages you can see forever.

Offline ttubravesrock

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Re: Road Trip
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2019, 05:05:55 PM »
You could squeeze in Death Valley between Yosemite and Grand Canyon.  The east side of the Sierras is incredibly rugged, and there's only 85 miles between the highest point in the lower 48 to the lowest spot in North America.  And the Mojave is beautiful in winter, without the heat and mirages you can see forever.

We're planning on checking out the Mojave on our way from Big Sur to Tucson.

We were thinking that we would plan another future trip without dogs so that we can enjoy Vegas without having to worry about our dogs. When we do that trip, we'll rent a car and check out Death Valley and Grand Canyon.

Offline Mr. Bill

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Re: Road Trip
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2019, 09:07:40 PM »
It's sounding like we'll be wanting to spend more time in Oregon. Lots of interesting things to check out. We both love the outdoors, and my wife is a geologist.

Yep, Crater Lake definitely has to be on your list.  And maybe some of the volcanic areas around Bend, in the center of the state.  And at least part of the Columbia Gorge.  And and and. 8)

Offline mountainmoma

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Re: Road Trip
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2019, 11:51:08 PM »
Yosemite is not in the SF area.  It is possibly a place you can hit after big sur when you turn east.  Love big sur, my family used to camp there every summer when I was growing up.  Since you are used to bad weather you should be fine camping, but do check for reservations as many places need them, including Big Sur, at least the state park of Big Sur.  If I recall, there may be national forest land down HWY 1 on the coast about 1hr south of that state park, check the national forest maps and areas and see if they still allow camping.

recomendations depend on which way you are traveling.  For example, are you going to go down HWY 5 from Portland or go down the coast ?  I have driven from about coos bay in oregon down to the SF bay area many times.  There are many stateparks with camping in the coos bay area, and if they were fullthey allow overnight parking at the grocery store in Bandon and there is cheap RV parking in Coos By at the indian casino, but staying at the state park like Bullards Beach ( bandon) would be prettier, get a reservation.  The drive down 101 along the coast there is very pretty and not windy or slow like the CA coastal routes ( I do not know about 101 in oregon north of Coos bay, as I havent been there).  Lots of sights to see.  YOu can get lunch in CA in arcata or wherever before turning inland.  This route will after a bit take you into redwood state parks, avenue of the giants, http://avenueofthegiants.net/ places to hike around and see the tall coastal redwoods and camp.  While there are many potential places to see or stop at, if you go this route, stop for lunch the next day at the Real Goods solar living center in Hopland right off the freeway https://solarliving.org/ ( south of Ukiah), besides being a nice respite from traveling to wander around, they have the store there where you can buy solar or other alternate living gear.  Then it depends on how much detouring you want, you havent said what you like to do or see.   Do you like wine tasting, which is all over in that part of CA or to go to the coast again ? Orr springs hot springs are great, Ukiah area, https://www.orrhotsprings.org/ but WAY off the beaten path, but you can camp there  for the night ! ( On the way IF  you were taking a back road to the coast to get to hwy 1 and medocino.  HWY 1 in CA is a much windier and slower road than 101 in oregon, but lots of state parks on the coast out there, very nice ones )

Once you get south of Ukiah, more wineries and such all down thru Sonoma County.  There is a great wood fired bakery west of sebastopol, Wildflour, http://wildflourbread.com/ , on the way to occidental and the coast if that is a route you want to take to get to HWY 1.  In Occidental there is the Occidental arts and ecology center, just a wonder spot, you cant just drop in, but if you plan it right Wednesday is volunteer day and is open to visitors https://oaec.org/events/volunteer-days/,  A bit further out from occidental and towards the coast is OCean Song, which is open to visitors every day http://www.oceansong.org/

Be aware that if you go on HWY 1 south from there,while very pretty it is slow to get toMarin county and San Francisco compared toHWY 101, but if you do it, you can drop by stinson beach or Muir woods or Mt Tamalpias in Marin county.  San francisco is not a place you can camp, but maybe there is a Hostel, like green tortoise https://www.greentortoisesf.com/   I have not stayed at that one as I am in driving  distance to SF, but I have stayed at the green tortoise hostel in Seatle, and it was as expected,  http://www.greentortoise.net/    San Francisco has alot of great places to eat and some great museums.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2019, 12:21:32 AM by mountainmoma »

Offline mountainmoma

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Re: Road Trip
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2019, 12:17:11 AM »
I could go on about other areas in CA, or places by me, but I do not know what you are looking for or how long you will be in which areas.... fr example, if you were in the Santa Cruz county area, I can tell you where to go to a brewery or get groceries etc.... I can tell you this, you need reservations to camp,  in general, but when it is winter like this, maybe they have room.  Nice campgrounds in the Santa cruz mountains would be Big Basin State Park outside of Boulder creek,  Lovely hiking out to the falls and such thru the redwoods.  Day trip to Castle rock state park if you like to rock climb.  Camp at Henery Cowell Redwoods state park  if you  want to be able to also go into Santa Cruz to do things as it is close to Santa Cruz and Big Basin is a bit of a drive.  Henry Cowell has redwoods, the San Lorenzo river to walk along, although the campsites are not in the redwood area. The campsite area is very easy acess to santa cruz.

Right now it is very rainy here, I sure would not want to tent cam in this kind of rain

Offline mountainmoma

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Re: Road Trip
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2019, 12:30:39 AM »
if you like interesting geology, you might like Pinnacles national park, it is before you get to big sur and after san francisco, very unique and interesting place, they have camping by the east enterance, I have only enetered at the east enterance, and I have camped there some years ago for Easter.  https://www.nps.gov/pinn/index.htm

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Hikers enter rare talus caves and emerge to towering rock spires teeming with life: Prairie and Peregrine falcons, Golden eagles, and the inspiring California condor.

This is true, I went there last January for the day with my youngest, and it was so amazing, the trails thru the caves and over the rocks, and we walked within a few feet of a couple condors.

I almost forgot, it is Elephant Seal season.  There are 2 spots you can see these, first is Point Reyes, which is Marin county, north of San francisco, and there is camping there, a private campground, but you would need to look it up, I have stayed there for a wedding. 

The more usual place to see the elephant seals is out my way and is Ano Nuevo State park, wihc is south of San Francisco off of Hwy 1 before santa Cruz.  Hwy 1 between san Francisco and santa cruz  is overall a very fast moving area, people commute to work on it, etc... https://www.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=29375
« Last Edit: January 09, 2019, 12:46:30 AM by mountainmoma »

Offline mountainmoma

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Re: Road Trip
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2019, 01:37:05 AM »
hRain is soloud I havent fell asleep yet, so here is a very good map showing all teh parks with Coastal Redwoods --  and descriptions.  If you have any questions about these areas, ask.

Yes, there are 2 types of redwoods. The coastal redwood sequoia seperviron (likely misspelled) is the Tallest tree in existance.  They are also found in more lush, wetter, areas, and in larger stands of more acres.  Being in a coastal redwood forest is a greener, lusher type place, not marshy but different than the other redwood areas.  I dont know if the climate was different long ago, but at this point, the giant sequoias are in less dense, drier environment, usually.  This is definitely the case by yosemite, which you would likely only notice in the summer, but the groves are not as dense and it is drier.  These redwoods are the most massive, so they are fatter, and overall more mass, but not as tall as the coastal ones.  Both types very impressive in different ways.

http://www.redwoodhikes.com/Home.html

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Top picks

In general, the further north you go, the better the redwoods. To really experience the redwoods I'd suggest visiting at least three parks:

    Jedediah Smith Redwoods State Park has the most scenic redwood forest. Take the half-mile walk around the cathedral-like Stout Grove, drive up Howland Hill Road (a one-lane dirt road, not for RVs), and if you're up for a longer hike, try the five-mile Boy Scout Tree Trail.
    In Prairie Creek Redwoods State Park, the 11-mile Miners' Ridge and James Irvine loop is the best all-day redwood hike. The Brown Creek Trail is also very impressive.
    The 30-mile-long Avenue of the Giants in Humboldt Redwoods is the classic redwood drive. I highly recommend the four-mile side trip down Mattole Road (a narrow, bumpy paved road through some of the world's tallest trees), which leads to half-mile walks in the Rockefeller Grove and also in the Big Trees Area.

Note that to go to any of these top pick sites, you would leave Oregon on the coastal route, hwy101 and go into California and be in the best, top, redwood territory.  The third or fourth best coastal redwood spots, occording to them, and I believe this is true, is Big Basin state park ( by me, south of SF)  Big Sur has redwoods of course, but not the same giant ones.  Big sur is gorgeous for the overall coast meets river

« Last Edit: January 09, 2019, 01:43:22 AM by mountainmoma »

Offline Redman

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Re: Road Trip
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2019, 04:00:14 AM »
Well you didn't say what part of Texas you might like to visit so I'll throw out Palo Duro Canyon State Park in the Panhandle.

https://tpwd.texas.gov/state-parks/palo-duro-canyon

Offline surfivor

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Re: Road Trip
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2019, 04:17:28 AM »

I would feel deprived if I visited the west coast without checking out the surfing areas but maybe that is just me.

This time of year I would spend some time either in southern CA or in the desert. Mexico may be not the best place to visit even though the climate and surfing may be good.

I had never been to big bend but I had thought about going. South padre sounded interesting too

I recommend the Superstition Mountains or slot canyon hikes in northern Arizona / southern Utah like escalante or antelope canyon. Just avoid flash floods. Those seemed less touristy than Grand Canyon or Bryce. Sedona is kind of a peculiar place


Offline Redman

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Re: Road Trip
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2019, 05:30:58 AM »
Forgot about Big Bend National and State Parks. Lived in TX. all my life but never been there. Been to South Padre a couple times. Clear water but lots of tar balls in the water. Probably still is. Stay away during spring break IMO. Galveston, TX. Meh, but I've been going there all my life. Sandy green water almost always, caused by the Gulf Stream currents. Big news on the TV when it clears for a day or two.


https://www.nps.gov/bibe/index.htm

https://tpwd.texas.gov/state-parks/big-bend-ranch

https://www.sopadre.com/

https://www.galveston.com/

Offline surfivor

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Re: Road Trip
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2019, 07:11:38 AM »
I would say Baja Mexico is awesome but it may not be particularly safe, too bad. There are camp grounds with fences and traveling or being out only during the day helps

Maybe there is a way to get to Costa Rica on a ferry
« Last Edit: January 09, 2019, 07:21:47 AM by surfivor »

Offline David in MN

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Re: Road Trip
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2019, 11:47:38 AM »
If you're interested at all in rock climbing you're hitting a pretty good list of spots. Even if you don't want to sink thousands into ropes and safety gear you could probably get in some awesome boldering low to the ground with little more than shoes and a chalk bag. In my teenage years when I was 160 lbs and RIPPED I would fly to Cali and climb with my uncle. Now I just pack the shoes and chalk if I'll be near a rock (and that's hard here). I traverse (go sideways) and it's a fun way to interact with the land.

Another thing to think about... Upgrade the camera. Think about things like a tripod. Maybe a better lens. I'm not saying you'll be the next Ansel Keys but my wife is an amateur photographer and we have some downright amazing nature shots and shots of European cities all over our house. It's really cool to see the waterfall from Duluth, the alligator in the Everglades, and the hermit crab from the Cayman Islands.

The other piece of advice is to do research on local artists. I don't mean BS crap made in China and sold to tourists. I mean you might have the opportunity to walk into a showroom or even shop of woodworkers, glass blowers, jewelers, and some stuff I couldn't imagine.

Offline ttubravesrock

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Re: Road Trip
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2019, 04:40:50 PM »
wow, lots of great info mountainmoma!

As to our current planned route, we are planning on heading directly from Bellevue, WA (friends live there) to Portland, OR via I-5. If the weather is looking nice we will probably take the east route and go through Yakima then south and follow the Columbia River to Portland. After Portland, we were going to head to Newport and follow the coastal highway all the way to Point Reyes. We aren't opposed to other routes, but that's the current plan.

I'm going to keep an eye on the news, but it seems like going to some National Parks might be a problem. We were planning on a bunch, but we'll still have plenty of options if we can't do NPs. I've also been keeping an eye on the weather. Right now the time we are going to be there is forecast to be PNW winter weather. 35-50 with clouds and a chance of rain. A lot of our plans will be PBE based on weather.

Redman, we're going to Junction, Round Rock, and Harker Heights in CTX. That's where we have family. Then on our way out, we're going to Lubbock to see how much it's changed since we lived there. There's a pretty good chance that we'll at least take a short hike in Palo Duro on our way out.

David, that's a good idea about researching local artists. How would you go about it? Just Google "Mendocino, CA artists" or whatever town we're thinking?

Offline ttubravesrock

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Re: Road Trip
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2019, 04:44:47 PM »
In Alaska I guess the winter is 8 months long so anyplace a little warmer may sound good

I work in construction, so from ~May 1 - ~October 31 every year, I'm in a remote location living out of a tent or trailer and working 7x14s while saving up leave and planning our vacation. Over the last two winters I've only used about half my leave so we're using up about 2 months worth this time. I'll still have plenty in the leave bank when I get back. That said, yes we usually avoid wintry areas for our winter vacations.

Offline ttubravesrock

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Re: Road Trip
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2019, 04:59:28 PM »
Yosemite is not in the SF area.  It is possibly a place you can hit after big sur when you turn east.  Love big sur, my family used to camp there every summer when I was growing up.  Since you are used to bad weather you should be fine camping, but do check for reservations as many places need them, including Big Sur, at least the state park of Big Sur.  If I recall, there may be national forest land down HWY 1 on the coast about 1hr south of that state park, check the national forest maps and areas and see if they still allow camping.

recomendations depend on which way you are traveling.  For example, are you going to go down HWY 5 from Portland or go down the coast ?  I have driven from about coos bay in oregon down to the SF bay area many times.  There are many stateparks with camping in the coos bay area, and if they were fullthey allow overnight parking at the grocery store in Bandon and there is cheap RV parking in Coos By at the indian casino, but staying at the state park like Bullards Beach ( bandon) would be prettier, get a reservation.  The drive down 101 along the coast there is very pretty and not windy or slow like the CA coastal routes ( I do not know about 101 in oregon north of Coos bay, as I havent been there).  Lots of sights to see.  YOu can get lunch in CA in arcata or wherever before turning inland.  This route will after a bit take you into redwood state parks, avenue of the giants, http://avenueofthegiants.net/ places to hike around and see the tall coastal redwoods and camp.  While there are many potential places to see or stop at, if you go this route, stop for lunch the next day at the Real Goods solar living center in Hopland right off the freeway https://solarliving.org/ ( south of Ukiah), besides being a nice respite from traveling to wander around, they have the store there where you can buy solar or other alternate living gear.  Then it depends on how much detouring you want, you havent said what you like to do or see.   Do you like wine tasting, which is all over in that part of CA or to go to the coast again ? Orr springs hot springs are great, Ukiah area, https://www.orrhotsprings.org/ but WAY off the beaten path, but you can camp there  for the night ! ( On the way IF  you were taking a back road to the coast to get to hwy 1 and medocino.  HWY 1 in CA is a much windier and slower road than 101 in oregon, but lots of state parks on the coast out there, very nice ones )

Once you get south of Ukiah, more wineries and such all down thru Sonoma County.  There is a great wood fired bakery west of sebastopol, Wildflour, http://wildflourbread.com/ , on the way to occidental and the coast if that is a route you want to take to get to HWY 1.  In Occidental there is the Occidental arts and ecology center, just a wonder spot, you cant just drop in, but if you plan it right Wednesday is volunteer day and is open to visitors https://oaec.org/events/volunteer-days/,  A bit further out from occidental and towards the coast is OCean Song, which is open to visitors every day http://www.oceansong.org/

Be aware that if you go on HWY 1 south from there,while very pretty it is slow to get toMarin county and San Francisco compared toHWY 101, but if you do it, you can drop by stinson beach or Muir woods or Mt Tamalpias in Marin county.  San francisco is not a place you can camp, but maybe there is a Hostel, like green tortoise https://www.greentortoisesf.com/   I have not stayed at that one as I am in driving  distance to SF, but I have stayed at the green tortoise hostel in Seatle, and it was as expected,  http://www.greentortoise.net/    San Francisco has alot of great places to eat and some great museums.

I love all the links. I sent my wife the link to the Solar Living Institute. I think we will go there and at least spend an hour or two. I know we are checking out some hot springs in Canada, and I had read about some a bit farther south near Big Sur, but I hadn't read about Orr. I'd like to check out the Occidental Ecology Center, but it looks like they have a no pets policy. We'll be travelling with two big dogs, so we probably won't end up hitting that up.

Offline Redman

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Re: Road Trip
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2019, 05:46:56 PM »
Round Rock to Austin, about 30 minutes. Hippie Hollow at Lake Travis, allegedly naked folks swimming. You can see if you want to from the Oasis bar, we've been there, but it burned and I don't know if it was every rebuilt. Anyhow for your enjoyment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvCgSqPZ4EM

Offline Mr. Bill

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Re: Road Trip
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2019, 07:20:24 PM »
...we are planning on heading directly from Bellevue, WA (friends live there) to Portland, OR via I-5. If the weather is looking nice we will probably take the east route and go through Yakima then south and follow the Columbia River to Portland. ...

That east route is not as stunningly scenic as you might hope (especially the Yakima to Columbia Gorge segment).  If you do go that way, and need a break from the outdoors, there is the oddity of an art museum overlooking the Columbia Gorge near the US-97/WA-14 junction:
http://www.maryhillmuseum.org/

If you only have time for a taste of the Columbia Gorge, though, try a shorter loop in the section between Portland and Cascade Locks.

...After Portland, we were going to head to Newport and follow the coastal highway all the way to Point Reyes. ...

That's a pretty route, but that section of US-101 is tiring to drive (and CA-1 even more so), so give yourself time.

Offline mountainmoma

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Re: Road Trip
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2019, 07:29:27 PM »
wow, lots of great info mountainmoma!

As to our current planned route, we are planning on heading directly from Bellevue, WA (friends live there) to Portland, OR via I-5. If the weather is looking nice we will probably take the east route and go through Yakima then south and follow the Columbia River to Portland. After Portland, we were going to head to Newport and follow the coastal highway all the way to Point Reyes. We aren't opposed to other routes, but that's the current plan.

I'm going to keep an eye on the news, but it seems like going to some National Parks might be a problem. We were planning on a bunch, but we'll still have plenty of options if we can't do NPs. I've also been keeping an eye on the weather. Right now the time we are going to be there is forecast to be PNW winter weather. 35-50 with clouds and a chance of rain. A lot of our plans will be PBE based on weather.

Redman, we're going to Junction, Round Rock, and Harker Heights in CTX. That's where we have family. Then on our way out, we're going to Lubbock to see how much it's changed since we lived there. There's a pretty good chance that we'll at least take a short hike in Palo Duro on our way out.

David, that's a good idea about researching local artists. How would you go about it? Just Google "Mendocino, CA artists" or whatever town we're thinking?

Sounds like a great route you have planned.  As you have probably seen, you will not realy follow the coast the whole way down, as there is not contiguous roads on the coast all the way down, that is why we call that area the "lost coast" so 101 goes down the coast thru all of oregon and into Northern CA, and it is beautiful and the northern CA redwood parks will be very nice for you to see, 101 turns inland after around Arcata/ Eureka  I think (humbult state university area) not far from that it turns inland, which is another great redwood area it goes thru, avenue of the giants.  If you want to be on the coastal hwy south of that, that is then HWY 1 and you will need to decide when to leave 101 and go over to the coast, any good choices to do so will be after Hopland and Real goods ( solar living institute), so no problem dropping by there.  Since 1 is slower than the 101, and both in that area of CA are very pretty, it may depend on how much time you have as to when to cut over.  For example, do you cut over after hopland on the road that cuts over to the 128, ending up a bit south of medocino or wait and cut over around Santa Rosa, hwy 12, which takes you thru sebastopol and ocidental before hitting the coast. 

either way, now that I think about it, I think the private campground I stayed in by point reyes was in point reyes station, if you have a moment in point reyes station stop by the coyuchi store to see if they have anything at super discount, and I think Black mountain weavers still has a co-op shop there where handmade knitted items and such are sold.  It may have been even this one in Olema we stayed at, I dont remember, right south of Point reyes station http://www.campingroadtrip.com/campgrounds/campground/campground/140/california/olema-campground  they allow dogs.   https://www.coyuchi.com/prs.html    their stuff is normally pricy, but it is very good quality, they have a seconds and discontinued area where one can often find some fantastic deals ( organic cotton bedding, towels, etc....)   http://www.borageyarns.com/bma/  they talk about black mountain artisans at that link. 

Before entering san francisco, if you like to do your own fiber/clothing dying, drop by Dharma trading company, which is just a few minutes off the freeway in San Rafael, saves on shipping.  Likely I am the only one here who buys a "blank" piece of clothing to dye, but anyway, it is a unique place  https://www.dharmatrading.com/   

I dont eat out in SF or santa cruz as much as my kids might , but if you need recommends on places ask me and I will ask them

Offline mountainmoma

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Re: Road Trip
« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2019, 07:35:07 PM »
I know someone who works for Oregon State Parks who grew up in Oregon who we could tap into to ask about places in newport and south in oregon, so let me know what questions you have.  This person especially knows coastal oregon

I find that going down 101 from Coos Bay to SF is much prettier and not much more time than hwy 5 would be, maybe 20 minutes which is nothing, especially as the traffic between Sacramento and SF thru the east bay is often just horribly bad.   Going over the golden gate and thru SF is not as bad.  101 is much prettier, and better places to stop.   Also, we find the monotony of hwy 5 to be more tiring than that extra 20 minutes down the 101.  Now, Hwy 1 in CA is slow and windy, and before you get to SF, 1 has to cut back over east to combine with 101 to go over the golden gate, so you do have to decide how much time you have and how long you want to be on that part of the coast
« Last Edit: January 09, 2019, 07:41:21 PM by mountainmoma »