Lets talk about salt storage

[Stwood]

Hmmm yes may be. Nothing else is affected so far.
This wet salt, I noticed *after* I had turned the a/c off in this room. A/c had been off a week. Outside temp dropped, so I shut it off.
Storeroom stays cool real well. 18" blown glass insulation in the ceiling.

[Redman]

Hmmm yes may be. Nothing else is affected so far.
This wet salt, I noticed *after* I had turned the a/c off in this room. A/c had been off a week. Outside temp dropped, so I shut it off.
Storeroom stays cool real well. 18" blown glass insulation in the ceiling.

Just last in line here. Steve you say the AC has been off a week, outside temps dropped. Have you watched the weather reports. Cool front moving through with a lot of moisture. You said you've had rain. Sounds like humidity got you. Now for sugar. I keep sugar in two 5 gallon buckets with gamma seal lids. It clumps but mostly I think from trapped moisture in the bucket and the weight of the sugar, I have 20+ lbs. of sugar in bags on the shelf also. It clumps fairly quickly compared to the buckets even with AC running. Remember I'm south of Houston and north of Galveston. 80% RH is pretty normal here. I don't worry about ants so far. I've never seen them in the sugar though I did have them in some ATTA DURAM flour that had been open on the shelf for a while. Got into other flour on the shelf also. All went out. No more bugs in that room even with the sugar bags in there. All this make me want to get another 5 gallon food grade bucket and gamma lid, fill it with salt and see what happens.

So my uneducated opinion says that cool front pushing moisture through your area caused the problem. AC might have helped but wasn't turned on. Same front moving through here this week, still running AC, temps not dropping much.

[Stwood]

*So my uneducated opinion says that cool front pushing moisture through your area caused the problem. AC might have helped but wasn't turned on. Same front moving through here this week, still running AC, temps not dropping much.*

Thats very possible Red. Very possible. Yes we had rain, then it turned hot again. So...

Hey the gamma lid and bucket sounds good. I've got one empty left, wondering wth to use it for.
Remember I bought  a box of 6? of those.
Salt would be easy to hammer drill out of a bucket. 

[mountainmoma]

I keep salt in 5 gallon buckets with gamma seal lids in my pantry, usually 2, one in use, 1 in reserve.  Never had a problem. Love gamma seals.  It can take one year, or 2 or more years to go thru the salt.  Salt in the kitchen is in a glass jar with a screw on lid, refilled from the bucket in the pantry.  I generally am using sea salt, nothing fancy, cheap sea salt.  I keep sugar in the pantry the same way, large bags emptied into 5 gallong buckets with gamma lids.  The sugar will clump a little, nothing major, but not the salt.

[Stwood]

MM, you fill your own salt buckets from what kind of store container?

[mountainmoma]

MM, you fill your own salt buckets from what kind of store container?

25 or 50 lb bags.  I buy it in bulk from places like WinnCo or my monthly order with Azure standard.  Any of my local health food stores, which sell salt in the bulk bins, will also order a full bag at a discount for a customer when asked.  Likely other discount, bulk stores carry salt in large bags too, I have seen it at Costco but not sure if it was regular salt or sea salt.  When I ordered a full bag to be ready for me at WinnCo last June, there was a mix up and it wasnt there, and I only go by a WinnCO maybe once or twice a year, so I just got a bunch from their bulk bins, about 25 lbs worth at least, maybe 3 double bagged of their large, plastic bulk bags and brought that home to put in the gamma sealed bucket I had just emptied.  So sometimes, like that, I may not fill up the bucket all the way, it is fine half filled. 

My buckets in the pantry have color coded lids, salt is white, sugar is red, white four is orange, rolled oats is yellow, hard wheat berries is green, white rice is balck. Right behind the door ging into the laundry room/pantry, doesnt take much room. Do not stack them 3 high, the gamma lids cant always take the weight of 2 other full buckets on top, so just stack 2 high which is perfect for bucket in use now on top, and backup stores underneath, when you empty the top bucket, use the one underneath and put it on the list to get a new bag.  This is rotated, in use stores.  LTS is different and is in mylar bags, sealed, O2 absorber, inside a bucket with pound on lid.

I do keep a small 2 gallon bucket, with a small sized gamma lid, that I use for powdered sugar and brown sugar.  These  I buy in the regular small bags or boxes at the store, on sale.  I take the inner bags out of the box, usually.  You can fit alot of these in the one bucket.  This keeps it fresh, and also is ant proof.  There are ants here you never see unless you have sugar or crumbs or something, then they are all over it. It is nice for when a baking urge comes upon one of us, there are stores of specialty sugar, and all other staples, and butter in the freezer

https://www.wincofoods.com/shop#/product/167807

https://www.azurestandard.com/shop/product/food/baking-pantry/salt/sea/sea-salt/10607?package=BP067

[Stwood]

Thanks MM. I may ck our Amish stores for salt next time, and compare to Augason LT salt

[mountainmoma]

well, storing the salt in a bucket with gamma lid is cheaper.  I dont even have any salt done up in Mylar or cans in the LTS as I just keep 2 buckets in the deep  pantry as it is salt and it keeps without alot of special help ( just keep out of the humidity to keep it flowing...). Well, I have one #10 can of salt. So, generally I spend .50/lb for sea salt, or sometimes regular salt.  I think pre-packed #10 cans are more than $1/lb

[Redman]

And if anyone is dead set on putting something into the salt to absorb the moisture check this out.

https://food.ndtv.com/food-drinks/7-genius-tricks-to-prevent-salt-from-clumping-and-becoming-damp-1718414

[Morning Sunshine]

we use RealSalt.  I have 3 2-gallon buckets in my LTS.  I rotate them; 2 have regular lids and the third has a white gamma lid (yes they make them small enough).  I went with smaller buckets because I have children that refill my kitchen container, and children..... don't always follow rules of non-contamination.  I also have another small bucket with a black gamma lid that has packages of kosher and fine RealSalt for those needs.  I rotate through this salt about every 2 years or so.
And then I also have a 6-gallon bucket of cheap salt for my VERY LTS that will only be used in emergency.

[Stwood]

well, storing the salt in a bucket with gamma lid is cheaper.  I dont even have any salt done up in Mylar or cans in the LTS as I just keep 2 buckets in the deep  pantry as it is salt and it keeps without alot of special help ( just keep out of the humidity to keep it flowing...). Well, I have one #10 can of salt. So, generally I spend .50/lb for sea salt, or sometimes regular salt.  I think pre-packed #10 cans are more than $1/lb

Yes, Augason is currently $8.88 per 6# 8oz #10 can purchased at Walmart.
If you consider the cost of the can, and they have done all the prep work on that can, it's not such a bad price.

I'm also thinking that if in the future we have to preserve meat without a freezer, you'll need a good amount of salt to preserve with. Or learn how to smoke preserve.


Which raises another question. When butcher shops prepare salt cured ham, what do they do with the salt afterwards? More than likely it will be contaminated/colored with blood.
Do they throw it away?

[mountainmoma]

Salt is good for preserving cheese too.  I can go thru a bit of salt when I do that, which is a reason for the large buckets of it.  I dont know about meat, but with cheeses, yes, I can reuse the brine for a bit, to do more cheeses, then when the "rush" of brining cheeses is over, I toss it out.  I keep it in a container large enough to submerge the round of cheese, with a lid on it.  WHen I am doing that, I might soak a round for 24 hours once a week in the brine.  The brine is so salty, no pathogens grow in it. 

[Stwood]

Thanks MM

[Redman]

If you are putting the meat in a barrel of salt wouldn't you leave the salt in the barrel and add more meat and salt as necessary? Rinsing of the meat you are to use before actual use. I've used Morton Tender Quick per Morton instructions on pork chops, picnic hams and chicken. Chops and chicken take hours only and the picnic took several hrs. per inch of thickness as I recall. Instructions on the bag.

http://www.texasescapes.com/CFEckhardt/Preserving-Meat-on-the-Frontier.htm

As MM pointed out cheese can be preserved in a brine, I've done this also, with Feta.

[mountainmoma]

If you are putting the meat in a barrel of salt wouldn't you leave the salt in the barrel and add more meat and salt as necessary? Rinsing of the meat you are to use before actual use. I've used Morton Tender Quick per Morton instructions on pork chops, picnic hams and chicken. Chops and chicken take hours only and the picnic took several hrs. per inch of thickness as I recall. Instructions on the bag.

http://www.texasescapes.com/CFEckhardt/Preserving-Meat-on-the-Frontier.htm

As MM pointed out cheese can be preserved in a brine, I've done this also, with Feta.

Thats what I was wondering, the barrel of salt for the meat would be like me reusing the brine for cheese --

[Morning Sunshine]

so what causes salt to "loose its savor"? (Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men. - Matthew 5:13)

I have an acquaintance who opened her salt container to find that it had no flavor, so I know it can happen.  What makes salt go bad?

[Redman]

so what causes salt to "loose its savor"? (Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men. - Matthew 5:13)

I have an acquaintance who opened her salt container to find that it had no flavor, so I know it can happen.  What makes salt go bad?

Don't know but for what it's worth check the link, specifically "Losing saltiness". Also check out the translations from the Greek explanations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_5:13

[Morning Sunshine]

so it more that it dilutes with other chemicals that may look like salt, causing confusion.  hm....

[Redman]

I used to buy a sea salt at a local Asian store. It was labeled as produced in (an Asian county). The salt was very wet, not clumpy. It tasted like salt water, the taste transferred to whatever you were cooking. I can remember the same taste from the Gulf of Mexico salt water at Galveston, Tx.

[Stwood]

I used to buy a sea salt at a local Asian store. It was labeled as produced in (an Asian county). The salt was very wet, not clumpy. It tasted like salt water, the taste transferred to whatever you were cooking. I can remember the same taste from the Gulf of Mexico salt water at Galveston, Tx.

Maybe you were being foo-foo'ed?

[Redman]

Maybe you were being foo-foo'ed?

Well considering what's in the water off the beaches that could be.

Checked my one remaining box of salt, it had clumped up. Bought it Nov. last year. Also reviewing our salt usage and other storage arrangement. Salt is cheap, never goes bad. I don't see any reason not to keep a large supply on hand. 48 lbs. in the 4lb. boxes costs only $17.76. Bucket, lid and whatever else adds little to the cost. That would be a 10+ year supply for us.

I did find an 80 lb. bag of table salt on Amazon for $27 and change. Shipping was $76 and change. 
If I wanted that much I'd buy 20 boxes at WM and pay $2 more and a little gas money.

[mountainmoma]

.

[David in MN]

I still feel like the odd guy out. Salt doesn't go bad. If you have salt you have sodium chloride. Without some wicked hard chemistry it stays as sodium chloride.

For centuries we mined salt out of the earth, shipped it uncovered with donkey carts, and left it outside. I wouldn't store it in a steam room but if history is any judge salt mining was dangerous to the men who did it, not the salt.

One other thought. My salt cellar has sat uncovered for roughly 12 years. I wipe it down if it gets dirty but I don't really wash it. I pour in more salt as needed. If salt just sucked water out of the air it would be a puddle.

This also gets back to one of grillling's great debates: brine or dry rub. Turns out it's really hard to make salt "go into stuff". And as far as sucking up moisture we developed silica as a dessicant because salt just don't work.

I feel like the lone opinion here. I hope I'm not all wet. 

[Stwood]

Well considering what's in the water off the beaches that could be.

Checked my one remaining box of salt, it had clumped up. Bought it Nov. last year. Also reviewing our salt usage and other storage arrangement. Salt is cheap, never goes bad. I don't see any reason not to keep a large supply on hand. 48 lbs. in the 4lb. boxes costs only $17.76. Bucket, lid and whatever else adds little to the cost. That would be a 10+ year supply for us.

I did find an 80 lb. bag of table salt on Amazon for $27 and change. Shipping was $76 and change. 
If I wanted that much I'd buy 20 boxes at WM and pay $2 more and a little gas money.

Sounds good on the 48# option. 

I'm kicking around what Morning sunshine does, is the 2-3 gallon bucket with gamma lid. Have just one of those in the pantry for use, then continue the Augason LT #10 cans.
I'll have to get another batch of gamma lids, and a smaller bucket. All I have extra is 5 gal buckets

[Morning Sunshine]

I still feel like the odd guy out. Salt doesn't go bad. If you have salt you have sodium chloride. Without some wicked hard chemistry it stays as sodium chloride.

For centuries we mined salt out of the earth, shipped it uncovered with donkey carts, and left it outside. I wouldn't store it in a steam room but if history is any judge salt mining was dangerous to the men who did it, not the salt.

One other thought. My salt cellar has sat uncovered for roughly 12 years. I wipe it down if it gets dirty but I don't really wash it. I pour in more salt as needed. If salt just sucked water out of the air it would be a puddle.

This also gets back to one of grillling's great debates: brine or dry rub. Turns out it's really hard to make salt "go into stuff". And as far as sucking up moisture we developed silica as a dessicant because salt just don't work.

I feel like the lone opinion here. I hope I'm not all wet. 

na.  what you say makes sense.  it just kind of flies in the face of everything else we are told     But then we are told a lot of things from "experts" that do not make sense once you apply facts and experience.  Also, salt will kill you - high blood pressure and all.

[Redman]

I still feel like the odd guy out. Salt doesn't go bad. If you have salt you have sodium chloride. Without some wicked hard chemistry it stays as sodium chloride.

For centuries we mined salt out of the earth, shipped it uncovered with donkey carts, and left it outside. I wouldn't store it in a steam room but if history is any judge salt mining was dangerous to the men who did it, not the salt.

One other thought. My salt cellar has sat uncovered for roughly 12 years. I wipe it down if it gets dirty but I don't really wash it. I pour in more salt as needed. If salt just sucked water out of the air it would be a puddle.

This also gets back to one of grillling's great debates: brine or dry rub. Turns out it's really hard to make salt "go into stuff". And as far as sucking up moisture we developed silica as a dessicant because salt just don't work.

I feel like the lone opinion here. I hope I'm not all wet. 

No, you are quite correct David, you'd probably have to be a sorcerer to make the stuff go away. Only problem I see is those cardboard containers. They will absorb moisture but I'm not sure that is what makes the salt clump. Remember the wet sea salt I mentioned? Wasn't dripping but definitely wet to the touch. I'm sure you are aware that salt in the Mediterranean area is/was obtained by letting sea water into a basin affair and the evaporation left the salt. What happens when salt gets wet? Nothing apparently. They only reason I quit buying that Korean sea salt is I didn't really like the taste.

Now the great debate. I can't speak to anything but pulled pork and I cook it in the oven. I season after cooking and pulling. Know why? I bet you do. Anyway the seasonings can't penetrate through the meat.

I'm not particularly concerned about a large quantity of salt clumping, does that naturally, it's the nature of the beast. Only concerned about having a container I can break the stuff up in if/when it clumps and keeping the nasty's out of it. I don't imagine anything would eat it like other food stuffs.

I'm just trying to decide on bucket size. I've not been able to find 2 or 3 gallon food grade buckets, only 5 gallon.

[David in MN]

I am of the belief that a 48 hour dry rub uncovered in the fridge is best. But I do suspect it's the actual pulling that incorporates flavor. I know a few fanatics though...

If you want "food storage" options the industry standard is Cambro. Not as cheap as the 5 gallon buckets but Cambro is made for commercial/industrial kitchens.

https://www.cambro.com/Food_Storage/

You could do a lot worse than eliminating all the cardboard and paper by putting all raw materials in Cambro. That's how professional kitchens operate.

[Redman]

I am of the belief that a 48 hour dry rub uncovered in the fridge is best. But I do suspect it's the actual pulling that incorporates flavor. I know a few fanatics though...

If you want "food storage" options the industry standard is Cambro. Not as cheap as the 5 gallon buckets but Cambro is made for commercial/industrial kitchens.

https://www.cambro.com/Food_Storage/

You could do a lot worse than eliminating all the cardboard and paper by putting all raw materials in Cambro. That's how professional kitchens operate.

Well I'm not going to get into the dry rub ah, argument. It's a no win. To each his own.

Cambro, hmm, I've cooked in restaurant kitchens but was never in a position to know where the storage containers came from. I'll need to look around that website more.

[Stwood]

Hey this thread has gotten some legs. 
David. I'm not worried about salt going bad, just storing it so it doesn't become another Missouri rock.
I've discussed this with the ( ) boss and we've pretty well just decided to keep buying the Augason LT salt #10 cans.
Store more, and if we don't have one of those .50 cardboard containers handy, just open the #10 can use use out of them.

My previous salt that was wet and then I transferred to glass, with rice, is slowly drying out. The rice is getting moist, doing it's job

[Redman]

Ok back to the clumping issue. Not salt this time but sugar. One of my buckets had a good bit of room in it and I had three 4lb. bags of sugar on the shelf. Two of these felt like bricks. I opened them and indeed they were bricks, couldn't even stick a paring knife in them. I know I've had one of them over a year. I had to cut the bags of these two and then use a metal dough scraper to break them up. Once started the smaller pieces broke easily. The third bag had not clumped yet. I left the smallest clumps, from experience they will usually break up/melt easily when being used or I break them when incorporating fat by hand into a flour or cornmeal mixture.