Author Topic: Donot renew your CA license remotely go get the REAL ID if you want to buy guns  (Read 172 times)

Offline mountainmoma

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Following additional clarification from ATF and DMV, NRA and CRPA attorneys will address CA DOJ’s position should they still insist that such licenses are restricted. Until then, we recommend our members hold off on renewing their California identification if possible or apply for and obtain a REAL ID.

SO Heads Up ! If you are in CA and want to be able to continue to buy guns, do NOT renew your license online or by mail ! You need to go in and bring all the required documentation and get the new REAL ID !


   
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It has come to our attention that DMV is issuing identification to lawful California residents that are identical to those issued to individuals who are unable to provide proof of their lawful presence in the United States. In other words, DMV provided ATF with bad information.

    This means there is no distinction between an AB 60 license and a non-REAL ID, despite what the ATF previously attested to in communications with NRA and CRPA attorneys. As a result, California licensed firearm dealers are currently prohibited from accepting non-REAL IDs for the purposes of firearm transfers due to ATF’s current policy.


   
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In addition, NRA and CRPA attorneys have received word from at least one firearms dealer that the California Department of Justice (“CA DOJ”) has taken the position that any license with the words “FEDERAL LIMTS APPLY” is not acceptable for the purposes of purchasing or transferring firearms, regardless of any additional language on the back of the license. This appears to be an unlawful overreach by CA DOJ because the question of lawful presence in the United States as it relates to firearm purchases falls directly under ATF’s control.

https://www.crpa.org/crpa-news/firearm-purchases-identification-issued-ca-dmv-part-2/

Offline Smurf Hunter

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Kind of how a WA state driver's license is not up to snuff for TSA.  I bring along my passport for domestic air travel now  :-\

Offline mountainmoma

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Kind of how a WA state driver's license is not up to snuff for TSA.  I bring along my passport for domestic air travel now  :-\

yes, like that. But they warned us that was going to happen, the not being able to buy a gun is a complete surprise.

Offline Smurf Hunter

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yes, like that. But they warned us that was going to happen, the not being able to buy a gun is a complete surprise.

The important difference being that the state of CA is deciding their own basic ID is not compliant.  There's not some federal authority rejecting it during the NICS check.
I would suppose if you traveled out of state to purchase a long gun that the out of state FFL wouldn't have any issue with a current and valid CA license.

So this is rather diabolical.

Offline mountainmoma

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you cant buy a gun out of state, it would have to be sent to a CA FFL, who would require the correct ID

It is diabolical on many fronts

One, Of course is by restricting gun and ammo purchasing rights,

Two, is that there is no longer anyway looking at the drivers license to know if someone is a citizen or an illegal alien. Before Jan 2018, this ID was only issued to illegal aliens. We were told when passing AB60 that the illegal population would have a different license, and that it would be a driving permit DP in front of the numbers, not DL, and that other clear verbiage would be on the front. But, they obviously didnt mean that after all....

Offline Smurf Hunter

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you cant buy a gun out of state, it would have to be sent to a CA FFL, who would require the correct ID

It is diabolical on many fronts

One, Of course is by restricting gun and ammo purchasing rights,

Two, is that there is no longer anyway looking at the drivers license to know if someone is a citizen or an illegal alien. Before Jan 2018, this ID was only issued to illegal aliens. We were told when passing AB60 that the illegal population would have a different license, and that it would be a driving permit DP in front of the numbers, not DL, and that other clear verbiage would be on the front. But, they obviously didnt mean that after all....

You can legally buy a rifle or shotgun out of state.  Whether your home state of CA allows you to return with it, I cannot say.
Plenty of people travel for hunting trips and do this.

Okay - I almost hit "post" and read this line in the ATF regs:

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Long guns can be purchased and transferred to a resident of any state in any state provided that the
transfer is legal in both the purchaser’s state and the state in which the transfer is taking place

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All State required purchase cards and waiting periods must be observed prior to the transfer of any
firearm in any state.
• California: Residents of California can only be transferred a firearm in the state of California.
(CA Pen. Code 12072.C & 12048(d)(7)(A))

more at: https://www.cabelas.com/assets/product_files/pdf/federal_state_firearms_regs_online.pdf

Offline mountainmoma

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which means I am right and a CA resident cannot buy an out of state gun, including long gun, without it going thru a CA FFL, correct ?

Offline Smurf Hunter

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which means I am right and a CA resident cannot buy an out of state gun, including long gun, without it going thru a CA FFL, correct ?

It would seem so.  What I'm confused about is the scenario where you HYPOTHETICALLY travel to NV, and attempt to buy a shotgun at the store.
I don't think the NICS check or anything on that process would block you.  Instead I think it's on that FFL (gun shop) to know they would be breaking CA law by selling to you.
How CA goes about prosecuting an out of state business, I am not sure.  I'm not sure if an ATF audit of their transactions would alert any agency in CA if they found a for 4473 by a CA resident.

I think functionally, a corrupt out of state gun dealer would have nothing to stop him from selling you a shotgun, besides the fact it is indeed illegal by CA state law.

Maybe I'm wrong, and the FBI/ATF (feds) do enforce CA law???

Offline mountainmoma

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It would seem so.  What I'm confused about is the scenario where you HYPOTHETICALLY travel to NV, and attempt to buy a shotgun at the store.
I don't think the NICS check or anything on that process would block you.  Instead I think it's on that FFL (gun shop) to know they would be breaking CA law by selling to you.
How CA goes about prosecuting an out of state business, I am not sure.  I'm not sure if an ATF audit of their transactions would alert any agency in CA if they found a for 4473 by a CA resident.

I think functionally, a corrupt out of state gun dealer would have nothing to stop him from selling you a shotgun, besides the fact it is indeed illegal by CA state law.

Maybe I'm wrong, and the FBI/ATF (feds) do enforce CA law???

The stores ask for ID to see what state you are from, a business has been notified about what rules to follow, the link you provided tells them the states with exceptions, and I bet the Feds would care about that. You could likely buy a long gun in any state from a private party, when buying from a private party it is your ( the CA residents) problem for breaking the law by not registering it in the state of CA. I do not think the feds care about CA silliness like driving ammo over state lines....or a privately purchased and used shotgun, hypothetically, I am not advocating this.  My take on the complete over the top-ness in CA is that people are starting to ignore the CA craziness, but absolutely follow Federal law
« Last Edit: April 16, 2018, 04:14:27 PM by mountainmoma »

Offline Mintbird

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I agree that this is so diabolical. I can't help but think that this was the plan all along. I live in SoCal and hate what Sacramento is doing to our gun rights.

I'm wondering if I renewed my CDL online, then found out I couldn't make a gun or ammo purchase, could I then go back to DMV and get a RealID?

Offline mountainmoma

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I agree that this is so diabolical. I can't help but think that this was the plan all along. I live in SoCal and hate what Sacramento is doing to our gun rights.

I'm wondering if I renewed my CDL online, then found out I couldn't make a gun or ammo purchase, could I then go back to DMV and get a RealID?

probably, but then you just missed being able to pick up that gun you bought and are paying storage till it arrives, your going to pay another license fee, and wait for an appointment at the DMV

But, now you know, and spread the word, do not get the "default" CA license, get the REAL ID. They arent going to let you buy ammo with that default license either, when the system is in place. And, who knows what else will be restricted that even they havent thought of yet ? Basically, the default license they will give you only is a license to drive and is not a sufficient ID for a bunch of stuff as time goes on I bet

Offline Smurf Hunter

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It's been 20 years since I lived in socal.  You need an appointment for the DMV still?  Can't you do it online?  I thought you only had to appear in person for your first state license (e.g. 16 year olds or people who relocated from out of state).

That's more appalling than removal of gun rights.  I'd almost rather be disarmed than visit those place again :(

Offline mountainmoma

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It's been 20 years since I lived in socal.  You need an appointment for the DMV still?  Can't you do it online?  I thought you only had to appear in person for your first state license (e.g. 16 year olds or people who relocated from out of state).

That's more appalling than removal of gun rights.  I'd almost rather be disarmed than visit those place again :(

Yes, you can renew online or by mail -- and if you do that, they will send you the "FEDERAL LIMITS APPLY" restricted license. To move to the new REAL ID, you have to go in person the first time and bring additional documents. This is why this is so bad, people just hit renew on line, get a license in the mail, and go to pick up their gun -- and cant

Offline Mintbird

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I just saw this update from CRPA - https://www.crpa.org/crpa-news/real-id-update-part-3/

Of course, with California's overreach in terms of their ridiculous gun control laws, who knows how this will pan out.

Real ID Update: Part 3

"Update Regarding Use of Non-REAL IDs for Firearm Purchases

NRA and CRPA attorneys recently received further clarification from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (“ATF”) regarding the use of non-REAL IDs when purchasing a firearm at a California license firearms dealer. According to ATF, California licensed firearm dealers:

[M]ay accept post-January 22, 2018 licenses/identification documents that meet the definition in 18 U.S.C. 1028(d) in fulfilling their requirements under 18 U.S.C. 922(t)(1)(C) and 27 CFR 478.124(c)(3)(i).  However, licensees may consider asking for additional documentation (e.g., passport) so that the transfer is not further delayed.

As a result, California residents who are issued non-REAL IDs after January 22, 2018, by the California Department of Motor Vehicles (“DMV”) may use their IDs for the purposes of purchasing a firearm, even if the ID contains the language “FEDERAL LIMITS APPLY” on the front of the license and states on the back of the license that 'This card is not acceptable for official federal purposes.' "

Offline Smurf Hunter

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I know they cost $100+ a bunch of paper work and waiting, but get a US passport.  At this rate you'll need one to leave CA next year.

Offline David in MN

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I know they cost $100+ a bunch of paper work and waiting, but get a US passport.  At this rate you'll need one to leave CA next year.

I agree. My 2 year old has a passport. They are f-ing with whatever an ID means these days (this thread is a perfect example). Now is the time to knuckle down and get passports from every country you legally can. Also because it's getting harder and harder to have proper ID. My mother told me that had she not had her passport in hand the "real ID" would have been a nightmare to obtain requiring a birth certificate from the 1940s. That's a piece of paper that some doctor scribbled out between cigarettes and martinis.

I'm glad my grandparents passed before this nonsense. They had neither a birth certificate nor a passport. My grandmother's first driver's license was a receipt that her check had cleared with the state of Wisconsin. No test required.

I don't know how people are obeying "the law". My birth certificate is a handwritten form that could be copied by just about any 12 year old. But that's a "legal document"?

As I go to the conspiracy side it sure feels like it's an attempt to make us all "undocumented". A driver's license was about road proficiency, not a legal document.

Circling back to the thread would Cali take a Canadian/Israeli/Pakistani passport for a gun? Those are the top 3 easiest. If you're Jewish/Muslim/Trudeauian it might be an easy play.

It's the modern day stamp act.

Offline mountainmoma

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I just saw this update from CRPA - https://www.crpa.org/crpa-news/real-id-update-part-3/

Of course, with California's overreach in terms of their ridiculous gun control laws, who knows how this will pan out.

Real ID Update: Part 3

"Update Regarding Use of Non-REAL IDs for Firearm Purchases

NRA and CRPA attorneys recently received further clarification from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (“ATF”) regarding the use of non-REAL IDs when purchasing a firearm at a California license firearms dealer. According to ATF, California licensed firearm dealers:

[M]ay accept post-January 22, 2018 licenses/identification documents that meet the definition in 18 U.S.C. 1028(d) in fulfilling their requirements under 18 U.S.C. 922(t)(1)(C) and 27 CFR 478.124(c)(3)(i).  However, licensees may consider asking for additional documentation (e.g., passport) so that the transfer is not further delayed.

As a result, California residents who are issued non-REAL IDs after January 22, 2018, by the California Department of Motor Vehicles (“DMV”) may use their IDs for the purposes of purchasing a firearm, even if the ID contains the language “FEDERAL LIMITS APPLY” on the front of the license and states on the back of the license that 'This card is not acceptable for official federal purposes.' "

Later, in the same update, it says this :

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California licensed firearm dealers should be aware, however, that the California Department of Justice (“DOJ”) may nonetheless continue to hold the position that any “FEDERAL LIMITS APPLY” licenses cannot be used for the purposes of purchasing a firearm. But as we explained in our previous alert, such a position is an unlawful overreach because the question of lawful presence in the United States as it relates to firearm purchases falls directly under ATF’s control. And ATF has informed NRA and CRPA attorneys that they will be rescinding their previous policy prohibiting the use of such licenses.

SO, for right now, you may very well be turned away from picking up your gun.