why would you need to "bug out?"

[endurance]

right but you wouldn't be heading off to the woods and trying to live off the land in those cases. You would likely head out of the affected area to family or a hotel.

This is exactly my strategy for 95% of the events I can imagine. For me, the greatest risks of displacement are wildland fire, severe winter storms, extended power outages, or a tree falling on my house. In most cases a friend's house (pre-arranged) or hotel would be the best bet. I could get trapped by snow away from home, so I keep a couple changes of clothes at work and can walk to the nearest hotel. I keep a couple days of food in my filing cabinet in case the hotel restaurant runs out of food.

Because I hike a lot and don't always plan for my hikes in advance, I keep a spare pack in my trunk with all the essentials to get me through a night or two in the back country. I also have the possibility of sliding off the road, so I keep several days worth of food in the car. Because I'm a volunteer firefighter, I always have my turnout gear and wildland gear (in the summer) in my car. As a result, I'll never freeze!  Otherwise I used to keep an old sleeping bag in my trunk in the winter.

I get that my situation is just that; I don't have the risks of hurricanes, tornadoes, volcanic eruptions, earthquakes, etc. Some of those situations could lead to very chaotic and lawless situations because of the social structure of the area in which case I would want a lot more tools and equipment available to me.

I came out of the Cold War, so I used to plan for Armageddon. Most of the time I consider the bugout fanatics who focus mostly on the extreme end of things are welcome to plan for the unlikely, but it's not for me... Then I see Russia invade the Ukraine and realize that if they push into a NATO state like Lithuania we might be racheting up to World War III quite quickly and think that it might not be a bad idea to have a teotwawki kit around.

I guess that's my quandary. I really don't see the need, but I also don't see the harm. Of all my deep preps, not just the edc and car kit stuff, but the stuff that sets us apart from the majority, the most useful thing to date is a deep pantry. Having been laid up for three weeks at the same time as my wife due to my gallbladder and her broken ribs, it was nice to have the cushion of food to defray our expenses while we had a reduced income. It has also kept us off the roads in winter when we might otherwise be compelled to go out to eat or go shopping; instead we go to the basement or deep freezer.  Sure, I've been a hero with a good first aid kit when we were at a company picnic, or providing that tarp for a wind break or shade structure for the class graduation BBQ, or the bug spray that kept us sane on the Fourth of July, but I have a hard time justifying the deeper stuff that leans toward mad max. ...for now...

[bcksknr]

     If you are prepared to bug out, then you are also prepared to stay put. I remember a magazine article. possible in Popular Science, from the Cold War (which was during my impressionable and formative years). As a test, a family was more or less chosen at random and given 30 minutes to pack up and "evacuate" their home, ostensibly because of an anticipated nuclear strike. What they did and didn't do successfully was documented by observers. Unfortunately, the only two recommendation I can remember from the exercise were to always keep clothes hangers facing the same way on a closet pole; that way you can empty a closet by gathering up and "unhanging" an armload without having to untangle hangers. The other suggestion was to remove entire drawers and put them in your vehicle, rather than picking through them and packing in a different container. I know there were other, similar findings from resources in every room of the home. Example: I keep canned goods in their cardboard trays so that I could carry out a tray of 12 or 24 cans, instead of trying to pack individual items.
     I still keep my closets organized that way, although in light of today's reality, being prepared to bug out in advanced makes more sense than a
grab and run" scenario. There are so many things that could necessitate evacuating in an emergency. How much more sensible to have pre-packed easily transportable items, than to have to run around the house, throwing things in a vehicle, perhaps in a panic.
     Naturally, the best place to be in a "situation" is in your home. Your home should have all of (or most of) the resources you would need. If you have the usual shelter, first aid, clothing, food, filters and survival tools packed and ready to go, but you can "shelter in place", then you're that much more organized and ahead of the game. The activity of preparing bug out supplies is valuable in and of itself, because it allows you to think and evaluate what would really be needed in an emergency situation, specific to your situation. We don't get hurricanes, but seasonal severe weather is a possibility. We also have oil trains that run through the area.
     There are many events that could necessitate leaving your home, for the safety of yourself and family. You are much better off being prepared to do so, than needing to do so and not being prepared and if you can shelter in place, so much the better.   

     

[endurance]

Along those same lines, pillow cases make decent bags for emptying a pantry into and I always keep two extra large duffel bags empty for emergencies.

One of my bigger issues is that in a wildland fire, I'll be busy with the fire since I'm a volunteer firefighter. My wife is no longer a member of our local department, so the plan is to have her focus on loading up the animals, grab the laptops, and turn on the roof sprinklers as she heads out the door.

[Cedar]

Along those same lines, pillow cases make decent bags for emptying a pantry into

When my families house was robbed many years ago, my mom was mystified that the thieves stole her pillow cases. The police told her the bad guys used them to haul the loot away. Pillow cases are also good cat carriers in an emergency. Tie the top.

Cedar

[Stwood]

bcksknr, excellent post.

[Sephiroth]

Bugging out is the way to go if you are in a huge city like New York or Los Angeles...

Take my example. I moved from the States back to Brazil years ago... I currently live in São Paulo, that as of today has a population of 13 million people and another 9 million people in the satellite-cities. That is 22 MILLION people living in an area of 75 square KM.....

So no, i can´t stay here in WROL situation.

I had to do, with the help of people from this forum and my wits, my homework. I mapped all possible and likely scenarios and prepped for each one. Example: if i see a WROL situation developing, i bug out to my B location that is ready. But if it´s a energy crisis or economical collapse of my city, i can bug in for a full week.

IMO, every prepper has to prep for  for his/her most possible scenarios and never say "never". I personally dont like the idea of bugging out, but MY PERSONAL life doesn´t grant me the luxury of saying i dont need to do so...

[Mr. Bill]

Pillow cases are also good cat carriers in an emergency. Tie the top.

 

I think I would need a suit of armor to make that work!

Okay, serious suggestion: If you have a cat carrier, leave it OPEN somewhere convenient (for the cat) all the time.  Our cat occasionally naps in his carrier, so when it comes time to load him into it for a vet trip (or bugout), he won't be afraid of it.

Come to think of it, I've got a photo here somewhere... Ah:



We had a grass fire nearby, and even though it didn't appear to be threatening our property we went ahead with a partial bugout drill and piled all our stuff in the foyer.  The cat carrier turned out to be self-loading.

[Ms. Albatross]

  The cat carrier turned out to be self-loading.

 

[archer]

hmm good idea..

[Stwood]

+1 

[bcksknr]

     Endurance; one of a Preppers bigger concerns is what to do when one or the other spouse is employed as an emergency responder. In some instances maybe both parents of children are similarly employed. What takes priority? Duty to self, family, neighbors, community or job? It must be a terribly difficult choice to make between reporting to the fire station, hospital, police station, etc. and getting your own family out of harms way.
     My feeling is that in a calamitous event, one's first duty is to personal and family safety. I can only speak for myself and I don't think anyone can really say what they would do if they were in a situation where they had to choose between helping a family across town evacuate, when their own family might also be at risk. This makes the case for pre-planning how a responder's family would deal with a "bug-out", while the responder was called to duty.

[Cedar]

Okay, serious suggestion: If you have a cat carrier, leave it OPEN somewhere convenient (for the cat) all the time.  Our cat occasionally naps in his carrier, so when it comes time to load him into it for a vet trip (or bugout), he won't be afraid of it.

This is basically what I did with my cat too. I had a small pan I kept in his cat carrier as a litterbox. He had to use the cat carrier or cross his legs until he decided to use it. He travels awesomely... loose in the car, and in the back seat I have his cat carrier with his litter pan and he uses it while we were on the road from Canada to Oregon. He was 4 weeks old or so when I started him in there.

You could also start feeding a cat in a carrier. Some people do the same thing with horses/trailers to teach them to load.

The pillowcase is easier than you think, and what I had clients bring fractious cats into the clinic in when they did not have a carrier. I think it is easier to get the wild cat into the pillowcase, than it is to get it out when you cannot see its head (or claws). But the pillow case does tend to calm them as they cannot see anything.

Cedar

[endurance]

     Endurance; one of a Preppers bigger concerns is what to do when one or the other spouse is employed as an emergency responder. In some instances maybe both parents of children are similarly employed. What takes priority? Duty to self, family, neighbors, community or job? It must be a terribly difficult choice to make between reporting to the fire station, hospital, police station, etc. and getting your own family out of harms way.
     My feeling is that in a calamitous event, one's first duty is to personal and family safety. I can only speak for myself and I don't think anyone can really say what they would do if they were in a situation where they had to choose between helping a family across town evacuate, when their own family might also be at risk. This makes the case for pre-planning how a responder's family would deal with a "bug-out", while the responder was called to duty.

The biggest thing I can do to improve my situation is mitigate to the point where my house is likely to survive regardless of how bad it gets. Thanks to some strategic tree harvesting over the years, having horses to keep the grass short and neighbors who do a decent job mitigating themselves, I'm in pretty decent shape for a major wildland fire.

Most disasters can be planned for and many can be mitigated for in some form or another. Having a spouse that gets it makes a huge difference. My wife isn't into the whole prepping thing, per se, but she's a fire line qualified paramedic, neuro & critical care certified ICU nurse and gets it more than most. While there was a time I had a hard time getting her to carry even a basic first aid kit before she started with the fire department, now she carries a full jump kit and bunker gear in her car at all times. I responded to a call last summer and when I arrived on scene, she already had an IV started (she was driving home from work and came across the scene). 

Our critters are our only real concern and we have good neighbors that would make sure they got out safely. I've never felt more a part of a community than I do here. That counts more than bugout bags and bugout locations. Much of that closeness comes from my fire department experiences. There's no better way to earn your neighbor's trust than to really be there for them in their hour of need.

[sams]

Has the OP's mother-in-law never come to visit?

THIS.

Also Rioters, Hemoragic fever, stolen elections, rioters, and Civil wars.

In that order

[Knecht]

Don't worry about carrying your cat along. Just release it. Other preppers wanna eat, too! Don't be selfish!

[Ms. Albatross]

Don't worry about carrying your cat along. Just release it. Other preppers wanna eat, too! Don't be selfish!

 

[Knecht]

You may not like it, but that's the way it is. In most times of poverty and need, the home pets end up on plate very fast.

[Greekman]

see Venezouela this month...

[Carl]

Note to self....get some pet cows..;.and barbeque sauce .

[Stwood]

Note to self....get some pet cows..;.and barbeque sauce .

Fer sure. There's a good supply of them right across the road....

[bcksknr]

     In reality, in a full scale WROL societal meltdown following the first few days of relative "shock and awe", during which public empathy, compassion and compliance will wane, fueled by confusion, lack of information and direction, fear and panic, the real S will HTF. Big cities, with their crowded urban centers are basically deserts, without modern technology to support them. As the realization that their cities can no longer support them, citizens will begin to move. Not unlike a herd of cattle. spooked by lightening, they will stampede to whatever rural ares they think will have the basics for life. Even the police and National Guard troops will not be able to hold back the millions, if they haven't already left for perceived safety with their families and loved ones. All that will remain will be lawless gangs, feeding on the bones of civilization and not realizing that they are trapped in a "deadzone".
     Those of us that live in a more rural setting will slowly see increasing numbers of "refugees" (we are 15 miles from a city of 50,000). The first to arrive in small towns or villages may find shelter, but as the numbers swell and pose a threat to those in the countryside, violence is the only outcome. What about mankind's "good nature"? Wouldn't those that have something want to share with those who have lost everything? If there is any semblance of governmental order and authority still functioning, wouldn't they mandate giving aid to the hordes that have spread out into the countryside?  Surely, food and supplies will be arriving soon, along with personnel to restore order. Nope.
     Think of a hurricane Katrina, but occurring in every state in the nation simultaneously. No internet, no television, no radio, no electricity, no public utilities, no law enforcement, no way for an unprepared government to function or even offer any help for the helpless. So, back to "Why would you need to "bug out?.
     You would need to go"someplace else" if you were in a city because cities will rapidly become deathtraps in the event of a nationwide SHTF event. You would eventually need to go "someplace else" if you lived in a small, rural town or village because you would be overrun by desperate or lawless groups escaping the cities, looking for supplies (remember, groceries would be emptied within hours or at most three days). Even if you lived on a rural farmstead far into the country, you would be forced out by the remnants of the looters, like locusts picking the landscape clean.
     Stay or leave? In the city, leave as fast as you can ahead of the mobs. In the country, stay as long as you can until forced to flee. What then? Find the largest, strongest, best armed, most organized group (gang) you can and hope you have some skill of value to them. Get used to a less pleasant than medieval lifestyle.
         

[Jeremy Downing]

     In reality, in a full scale WROL societal meltdown following the first few days of relative "shock and awe", during which public empathy, compassion and compliance will wane, fueled by confusion, lack of information and direction, fear and panic, the real S will HTF. Big cities, with their crowded urban centers are basically deserts, without modern technology to support them. As the realization that their cities can no longer support them, citizens will begin to move. Not unlike a herd of cattle. spooked by lightening, they will stampede to whatever rural ares they think will have the basics for life. Even the police and National Guard troops will not be able to hold back the millions, if they haven't already left for perceived safety with their families and loved ones. All that will remain will be lawless gangs, feeding on the bones of civilization and not realizing that they are trapped in a "deadzone".
     Those of us that live in a more rural setting will slowly see increasing numbers of "refugees" (we are 15 miles from a city of 50,000). The first to arrive in small towns or villages may find shelter, but as the numbers swell and pose a threat to those in the countryside, violence is the only outcome. What about mankind's "good nature"? Wouldn't those that have something want to share with those who have lost everything? If there is any semblance of governmental order and authority still functioning, wouldn't they mandate giving aid to the hordes that have spread out into the countryside?  Surely, food and supplies will be arriving soon, along with personnel to restore order. Nope.
     Think of a hurricane Katrina, but occurring in every state in the nation simultaneously. No internet, no television, no radio, no electricity, no public utilities, no law enforcement, no way for an unprepared government to function or even offer any help for the helpless. So, back to "Why would you need to "bug out?.
     You would need to go"someplace else" if you were in a city because cities will rapidly become deathtraps in the event of a nationwide SHTF event. You would eventually need to go "someplace else" if you lived in a small, rural town or village because you would be overrun by desperate or lawless groups escaping the cities, looking for supplies (remember, groceries would be emptied within hours or at most three days). Even if you lived on a rural farmstead far into the country, you would be forced out by the remnants of the looters, like locusts picking the landscape clean.
     Stay or leave? In the city, leave as fast as you can ahead of the mobs. In the country, stay as long as you can until forced to flee. What then? Find the largest, strongest, best armed, most organized group (gang) you can and hope you have some skill of value to them. Get used to a less pleasant than medieval lifestyle.
         

Sound's like I should join Negan's band. lol

[bcksknr]

     I'll admit that I take a rather negative view of human reaction to a world without law due to some calamitous event. I propose a dark scenario only in the case where the public sees little or no hope for a return to normalcy. Most of the time, given the restrictions of future retribution after the resolution of an emergency, I believe most of the public will act within civilized bounds. Neighbors will help each other, governmental resources will be available, strangers will contribute to aid organizations. If we are talking about a complete societal breakdown due to catastrophic national or global disaster, eventually the realization that things will potentially never revert to normalcy will sink in to even the most charitable individual. At what point will family members watch each other starve or die from thirst or disease before they will do normally unthinkable things to survive.
     When the food stocks are gone (the shelves are emptied), when the water doesn't flow from the tap or flush the toilet (treatment plants shut down), when the hospitals have used their last resources (if you can find a health facility that hasn't been looted for drugs), when even the police and military have gone to protect their own families and loved ones, then we will see what people are really made of. My belief is that most people do the "right" thing because they are afraid of the consequences of doing the "wrong" thing. Strip away the thin veneer of a hopeful civilization and I see the future, where only the strong survive, looking very ugly.   

[osubuckeye4]

     I'll admit that I take a rather negative view of human reaction to a world without law due to some calamitous event. I propose a dark scenario only in the case where the public sees little or no hope for a return to normalcy. Most of the time, given the restrictions of future retribution after the resolution of an emergency, I believe most of the public will act within civilized bounds. Neighbors will help each other, governmental resources will be available, strangers will contribute to aid organizations. If we are talking about a complete societal breakdown due to catastrophic national or global disaster, eventually the realization that things will potentially never revert to normalcy will sink in to even the most charitable individual. At what point will family members watch each other starve or die from thirst or disease before they will do normally unthinkable things to survive.
     When the food stocks are gone (the shelves are emptied), when the water doesn't flow from the tap or flush the toilet (treatment plants shut down), when the hospitals have used their last resources (if you can find a health facility that hasn't been looted for drugs), when even the police and military have gone to protect their own families and loved ones, then we will see what people are really made of. My belief is that most people do the "right" thing because they are afraid of the consequences of doing the "wrong" thing. Strip away the thin veneer of a hopeful civilization and I see the future, where only the strong survive, looking very ugly.   

I don't think people do the right thing because they are afraid. I think most people do the right think out of convenience.

It's way more convenient (for most) to fall in line and play by societies rules than it is to break the law/social code at every turn and try to continually get away with it.

Put it this way... life is much easier when you choose to try to get along with your neighbor, than if you chose to constantly bicker and fight with your neighbor. That's why most people put aside the more petty differences, and generally get along with their neighbor. If not get along with, at the very least, co-exist.


I think that once the tables turn and it's more convenient to behave in a counter culture way, that is what people will do.

Eventually though... rules are formed, and people realize that they have to start working together. Not because it's "right" or "wrong", but because it's necessary and more convenient in the end.

[endurance]

     In reality, in a full scale WROL societal meltdown following the first few days of relative "shock and awe", during which public empathy, compassion and compliance will wane, fueled by confusion, lack of information and direction, fear and panic, the real S will HTF. Big cities, with their crowded urban centers are basically deserts, without modern technology to support them. As the realization that their cities can no longer support them, citizens will begin to move. Not unlike a herd of cattle. spooked by lightening, they will stampede to whatever rural ares they think will have the basics for life. Even the police and National Guard troops will not be able to hold back the millions, if they haven't already left for perceived safety with their families and loved ones. All that will remain will be lawless gangs, feeding on the bones of civilization and not realizing that they are trapped in a "deadzone".
     Those of us that live in a more rural setting will slowly see increasing numbers of "refugees" (we are 15 miles from a city of 50,000). The first to arrive in small towns or villages may find shelter, but as the numbers swell and pose a threat to those in the countryside, violence is the only outcome. What about mankind's "good nature"? Wouldn't those that have something want to share with those who have lost everything? If there is any semblance of governmental order and authority still functioning, wouldn't they mandate giving aid to the hordes that have spread out into the countryside?  Surely, food and supplies will be arriving soon, along with personnel to restore order. Nope.
     Think of a hurricane Katrina, but occurring in every state in the nation simultaneously. No internet, no television, no radio, no electricity, no public utilities, no law enforcement, no way for an unprepared government to function or even offer any help for the helpless. So, back to "Why would you need to "bug out?.
     You would need to go"someplace else" if you were in a city because cities will rapidly become deathtraps in the event of a nationwide SHTF event. You would eventually need to go "someplace else" if you lived in a small, rural town or village because you would be overrun by desperate or lawless groups escaping the cities, looking for supplies (remember, groceries would be emptied within hours or at most three days). Even if you lived on a rural farmstead far into the country, you would be forced out by the remnants of the looters, like locusts picking the landscape clean.
     Stay or leave? In the city, leave as fast as you can ahead of the mobs. In the country, stay as long as you can until forced to flee. What then? Find the largest, strongest, best armed, most organized group (gang) you can and hope you have some skill of value to them. Get used to a less pleasant than medieval lifestyle.
         

While I've always been a little less dark than this, I recently read Rebecca Solnit's book, A Paradise Built in Hell, and while she's a bit more of an anarchist than I am, nevertheless, she cites several very well documented examples of situations where people didn't lose it.  In fact, they responded better than the government could have imagines and the government was the real problem.  The stories out of Katrina were grossly exaggerated when it comes to human-caused tragedy.  One fact that blew my mind because the media never covered the actual facts was the Superdome.  Do you know how many actual deaths there were in the Superdome?  The media reported raping babies and homicide, but in the end, there were six deaths; four from natural causes, one suicide and one apparent homicide. 

The author's look at the San Francisco earthquake of 1906 is just one example of how communities banded together and were the key to their own salvation.  I highly recommend the book because history may surprise you.

[bob3]

OP, I believe it depends on the geographic size of the societal problem.  To me, a BOB is what you need until you get out of the area affected, because unless it's national or regional (multi-state) you're going to be able to get to a motel and a Wal-Mart within a day or two.

I'm in hurricane country.  The easiest "bug-out bag" for me is money I can spend somewhere safe because I can buy everything I need to live in an area not affected by the storm.  Yes, my assumption is that the area is limited, and I have the means to escape it, but this is consistent with hurricanes, wildfires, volcanic eruptions, etc. 

Example -- my Texan in-laws got stuck on I-10 fleeing from Ike because they waited until everyone else left, and every convenience store on every exit in the immediate area was getting cleaned out.  They parked on the highway for 6 hours and wanted water, snacks, and something to do (I would have also had an EDC weapon & ammo and decent first-aid kit, just in case).  But even with something on that scale, traffic cleared in a few hours and they had a nice dinner and a good night's sleep in a motel.  Yes, you could plan for much worse, but I try to focus on the most likely and serious threats.  Nation-wide EMP and I'm just screwed, but I would be no matter what was in my backpack.

Outside my BOB I have a causal EDC bag that has some decent first-aid and other doo-dads.  I also have a "car kit" that isn't for evacuating but just normal life where we take family trips in cars and need auto-specific things, including more water and food.  Add all this up, and I can "live", albeit uncomfortably, for 24 hours without any outside support until I get somewhere comfy. 

I would appreciate any responsible mocking of gaping holes in my thought process.

[Carl]

OP, I believe it depends on the geographic size of the societal problem.  To me, a BOB is what you need until you get out of the area affected, because unless it's national or regional (multi-state) you're going to be able to get to a motel and a Wal-Mart within a day or two.

I'm in hurricane country.  The easiest "bug-out bag" for me is money I can spend somewhere safe because I can buy everything I need to live in an area not affected by the storm.  Yes, my assumption is that the area is limited, and I have the means to escape it, but this is consistent with hurricanes, wildfires, volcanic eruptions, etc. 

Example -- my Texan in-laws got stuck on I-10 fleeing from Ike because they waited until everyone else left, and every convenience store on every exit in the immediate area was getting cleaned out.  They parked on the highway for 6 hours and wanted water, snacks, and something to do (I would have also had an EDC weapon & ammo and decent first-aid kit, just in case).  But even with something on that scale, traffic cleared in a few hours and they had a nice dinner and a good night's sleep in a motel.  Yes, you could plan for much worse, but I try to focus on the most likely and serious threats.  Nation-wide EMP and I'm just screwed, but I would be no matter what was in my backpack.

Outside my BOB I have a causal EDC bag that has some decent first-aid and other doo-dads.  I also have a "car kit" that isn't for evacuating but just normal life where we take family trips in cars and need auto-specific things, including more water and food.  Add all this up, and I can "live", albeit uncomfortably, for 24 hours without any outside support until I get somewhere comfy. 

I would appreciate any responsible mocking of gaping holes in my thought process.

Your common sense approach is refreshing...PLUS 1 karma...If you have family,I suggest a written plan with alternate locations and phones to call once out of danger etc.

[bob3]

Thanks.  Yes, that is the tricky part.  We're so dependent upon instant communication if "something happened" fast and the cell network was down, there needs to be an emergency plan in each person's mind (or glove compartment) that says who does what when.  I envision this type of scenario in my area as a chemical, ship, or distant nuclear plant explosion affecting a large downwind area, and then everyone getting on their phones once to discuss it and collapsing the network.  Texts might still go through, but if not, with spouses and kids all in four different places, everyone needs to know WTF to do after the initial shock wears off.  I tried to game through the algorithm on paper that lives in glove compartments and still prompts some mocking from the wife:  if I'm at work and you're at home, you do this and I'll do this;  If you're out, you do this then I'll do this; If you leave home to get kid leave not that says this; if the area's not safe AND we're not in communication go here, etc.  That gets complicated fast the more steps into it you get, so I had to cut it off and keep it simple. 

But getting back to the point of the original post, all this presumes 90 miles away life is normal, and while traffic may make getting there take 6 hours instead of 1.5, it's not time to break out the tent and start trapping rabbits along the I-95 shoulder.  Spare ammo, well, that's another story...  ;-)

[Cylon]

I live in rural Australia and the only thing that would make me bug out would be a bushfire. Apart from that i'm staying put because all my shit is there.

However i do carry a "get home bag" in my car (that goes everywhere with me) that would make the 80km tab from work to home that little bit more civilised. 

[Stwood]

However i do carry a "get home bag" in my car (that goes everywhere with me) that would make the 80km tab from work to home that little bit more civilised. 

I need to get a GHB together, and get it *in* the pickup, somewhere. Maybe a couple of slim bags, and put them under the seat