How do you survive a surprise divorce?

[Kara]

Hi all,

Recently, I caught my husband cheating on me and, long story short, a divorce is in my near future. I am 40, have teenage boys (who are still blissfully unaware), and I work full time. My bills are almost paid off, but not quite.  I am so grateful that we each have our own checkbooks with each our own bills to pay...one less battle to have to work through. I will probably be getting another job as I don't make enough to live alone, never mind feed teenage boys, but that's ok. Hopefully it won't be for very long.

Now that I have gotten over the initial "poor me" reaction, I've got my backbone put back in place and I am quite sure I will survive this, but there must be good ways and not so good ways to survive this type of scenario. The reason I post this here is that I want to ask those of you (ladies and gents both) who've already faced this particular fire your advice on how to survive it better than not. Two weeks ago, I would have bet my own life that this wouldn't ever happen to me... Good thing I'm not a betting woman. I've been trying to slowly get myself up to speed, prep-wise, for a while, but this is something I couldn't ever have been prepared for... I just never saw it coming.

One thing in particular I could use advice on is how to handle things with the kids. I let my soon-to-be-ex know that those boys and I are a package deal, so they will be staying with me. I imagine they will be pretty angry and confused for a while. It's going to be an interesting time with them, I think. Poor kids...I wish they never had to deal with this.

Any wisdom anyone has to share regarding a similar issue you've faced would be most welcome.

Thanks,
Wintersparrow

[johnnyb_good30]

well u can try to work it out or rember its not only your job to feed the kid .im a full time single dad and i make it with eaze you can to

[Kara]

Hi JohnnyB,

I suggested that, if only just to make sure the kids have a stable home life at least until they graduate and leave home, but he'd rather pursue his new honey than be a father to his kids. His loss. He seems to want to make sure they are taken care of, money-wise, so hopefully feeding them won't be too much of an issue.

[nikki1843]

First let me say i am sorry for what you and the kids are going to go through. It is tough but survivalable. I am a divorced mom with 3 kids. And I was totally blindsided when my husband told me he was leaving me. I had no clue.

With the kids telling them was the hardest. I had to remain calm and reassuring for them when I was really falling apart inside. My advice is this. NEVER say anything bad about the other person. it will be used against you. Allow your kids to feel what they feel. It is OK for them to be angry, and to still love the other parent. Make sure they hear and see that they are loved.

I know i ave made mistakes with my kids. My sons refuse to even speak to their father. But he turned his back on them first. I don't push it, They are old enough to make that decision themselves. My daughter adores her dad, but would rather not spend the night with him.  That's OK too.

Teenagers are a tough age for this. They think they are grown, but really still need our emotional support. Just take it slow. They will come through it.

[ColdHaven]

I have some advice to give, since I have been through this myself, and I hope it will be useful. I am not a lawyer and so this isn't to be construed as legal advice.

First: Talk to a lawyer and explain the situation. They will have good advice for you on legal grounds.

This is probably the hardest one: Distance yourself emotionally from him. People can try to seize hold of any kind of weakness you might present. Besides, getting emotional now over something that has already been decided can cause problems further down the line. This may be easy or difficult depending on his emotional and mental temperment. I have seen and heard things my father did that I would have never thought he would do. The less he can mess with you emotionally the better. He might not, but it might be good practice until this is over with.

Try to work it out without court. If he is a reasonable man then perhaps you can negotiate with him outside of court. This way you can work out the details before you have to spend a lot of money on a lawyer. You could try selling him on this idea as I am sure he is not wanting to spend thousands of dollars on a divorce.

Save as much money as you can right now. You might have to use it in court.

Get evidence. Are there any shared accounts or credit cards you share? Get transcripts of transactions and what was spent where. Have health records for your kids so he cannot say that you have not been taking care of them. If there is any way to physically prove his infidelity then it would be good to get that (if he is going to try and deny it in court). Does he have any mental health issues? Try to get documentation of that or proof of medicine that he is taking. Likewise try to find this kind of evidence against him such as proof of spending away a lot of your family money, or that he has not been taking care of your children. Go for the throat, because if he is really going to fight for custody then he will do likewise. You can always make nice later, if you wish.

I am a single father who has custody of his child. It can be done. I have been doing it for well over 8 years now.  Its a struggle and is hard, but your teens should be able to help you out.

Network with your family, friends, and even your employer. Let them know about the situation you are in. You never know who might be able to help you out. Talk thoroughly about this with your children. Don't keep anything from them. You might think you are protecting them, but teens are more resilient than younger children, and they should be able to help you out. Don't be harsh or judgemental or even emotional about it when you speak to them. Just give them the facts and answer their questions. This will keep them and you calm through this process.

Keep your lines of communication open. Don't isolate yourself. You have already demonstrated this well by coming here and asking for advice. So I won't go into much more detail about that.

From what you mention he does not seem like a violent person. However, if you feel that he might become that way, you might want to have a means to protect yourself physically.

This is one of those personal disasters that Jack talks about on his podcast. Just keep that in mind as you go forward.

Thats about all I can think of right now. I hope some of what I have said is applicable to your situation and is helpful to you. Good luck on this.

[Stein]

I would agree with the above advice about securing a good attorney.  Think of it as a business transaction from here on out and try as best as you can to remove the emotion.  If your marriage is truly over the only thing left is his financial support.  Put together concrete evidence and push for the best package for your kids including child support, money for activities and college costs.

Hopefully he will be a man and support the kids without a big court fight.  Prepare for a big fight and be glad if it doesn't happen.

Good luck, I can't imagine what you must be going through.

[archer]

Sorry life is being nasty to you Wintersparrow. Good luck.

With the kids telling them was the hardest. I had to remain calm and reassuring for them when I was really falling apart inside. My advice is this. NEVER say anything bad about the other person. it will be used against you. Allow your kids to feel what they feel. It is OK for them to be angry, and to still love the other parent. Make sure they hear and see that they are loved.

My parents divorced when I was a teen in HS. My mom did not tell my younger brothers much, but she vented lots to me. I am not as close to my dad now because of that.

[Jack Crabb]

Whether you litigate, mediate, negotiate or collaborate, there are 5 key areas to address:
1. divide property
2. assign debts
3. determine spousal support
4. determine custody and visitation
5. calculate child support

Make a list of all your property.  Real estate, time shares, cars, boats, motorcycles, bank accounts, investments, retirement (pensions, IRA's, 401k's), artwork, business interests, etc.  If it has value, put it on the list.  However, stop before you get to clothes, salt/pepper shakers, etc.  There is a point of diminishing returns.

You can do a 50/50 split by agreement.  Litigation may be required if one side or the other won't agree (and in some instances there are good reasons not to) to 50/50.  If you want a 60/40 split and have to litigate, the question is whether 10% of your marital estate and risk of not getting the favorable outcome are worth more than the $20k, $50k or ?? that your trial will cost.  Right now with real estate and investments down, litigation is frequently a losing proposition.

Debts are fairly straight forward.  Whoever gets the car also gets the loan.  Whoever gets the house, gets the mortgage.  Credit cards can be hard because there is not a particular asset associated with the debt, as with a car loan.  If the charges came from clothes, food, etc. for the family, then it can/should be shared.

Spousal support is usually based on the recipient's need and the payor's ability to pay.  "Need" and "ability to pay" are based upon income and expenses.  Work up a budget.  Be realistic.  Whatever you cut now, may be gone for good.

Custody and visitation will have to address legal custody, physical custody, and visitation.  Legal custody (the power to make medical, educational, etc. choices) is usually shared on paper but decided by the physical custodian in practice.  Physical custody is simply with which parent do(es) the child(ren) live with more than the other.  Visitation is the non-physical custodian's time with the child(ren).  Visitation can be anything from nothing to equal time.   Wednesday night for dinner, alternating weekends, split holidays and two weeks in the summer is fairly common. 

That being said, there are few things worse than being locked up in a house with a teenager who does not want to be there.  Teenagers sort of "dictate" their visitation.  Either school/extracurricular activities limit options or their attitudes to one parent or the other do.

Child support is usually a straight statutory formula.  Mom's income, dad's income, an adjustment for spousal support if any, work-related daycare, and cost of health insurance go into a formula and whatever pops out is the amount.  Do a google to find your state's child support enforcement office.  They frequently have on-line calculators you can use to get an idea of what child support will run

That is a very rough overview.  The devil is always in the details.  But, getting a balance sheet of assets and liabilities, and an income/expense statement will move you along considerably.

[Kara]

Thank you all so much for your well wishes and all the good information you have posted. While handling the issues with the boys is going to be especially hard, I'm just now finding out some things about my husband's financial issues that the advice given here will help me with greatly.


Archer, the point you made about your mother venting on you was well made, and one that resonates with me particularly. My mother did a similar thing to me even though my parents never divorced. It's a hideous thing to carry that around as a kid, and it's something I'll be doing my best to avoid with my own. Taking the high road is so difficult, especially the more I find out about what's been going on, but you all are right in that this is now nothing more than a business transaction, and have to take the emotion out of it as best I can.

Thanks again everyone...your help is so much appreciated.
Wintersparrow

[Ultio1]

All I can relate from my own experience is that everyday it hurts a little less. At you first you cant even tell its getting better but it is.  Dont over compensate with your kids, teenage boys may want a little space to deal with things. I think the hardest and most important thing is that you never talk bad about your soon to be ex in front of them or in a way that will get back to them. Talk to them and explain your plan for the future, they will experience less anxiety if they know you know what to do, even if you dont.

[Sister Wolf]

If you need to vent or rant, you know you can always PM me, or call me.  That'll save the little ears from "the nasties", and it'll allow you to be p-worded off (as well you should be) in a safe situation, where it won't ever be used against you.

Just know that the offer is there. 

[Kara]

Thank you so much, Sister Wolf! You have been so great, and such a big help to me. You rock!

<<<Hugs!>>>

I have to say, though, that I am kind of surprised that I have actually been able to hold it together as well as I have. I think that once I had a good old fashioned sob fest and got it out of my system, all that's left is the cold, raw need to survive, not only for myself, but for the boys as well. I have an appointment with a lawyer, and have mapped out what I hope the next year looks like so that I have a plan and goals in place...as well as a few contingency plans to boot. That makes all the difference, just having a direction to go and to be able to move forward with purpose. All the good advice I have gotten here has played heavily into that, and, again, I am grateful to all who have posted.

Thank you!!

[archer]

Good job Wintersparrow.... Let us know if we can help.

[CFG]

I can't give any advice, but I can say it sounds like you've got your head and your heart in the right place.  My sincere condolences, Wintersparrow. 

[SkipOnStars]

COLD HAVEN's advice is golden!  Do keep your distance and remain outwardly aloof.  Get advice and don't rush things.  The way you feel now is not how you will feel in a year so don't make decisions with your wounded heart that your stronger self will have to live with.  Please practice "extreme self care" and be kind to yourself.  This can mean long bubble baths, long walks or listening to or reading inspirational material. 

THIS TOO SHALL PASS.  Just not fast enough! 

Good luck & God Bless you,
Donna in GA (been there)

[Pathfinder]

Whether you litigate, mediate, negotiate or collaborate, there are 5 key areas to address:
1. divide property
2. assign debts
3. determine spousal support
4. determine custody and visitation
5. calculate child support

And get it all in writing, signed by both parties and witnessed. You will need it to dissolve the marriage legally anyhow.

Debts are fairly straight forward.  Whoever gets the car also gets the loan.  Whoever gets the house, gets the mortgage.  Credit cards can be hard because there is not a particular asset associated with the debt, as with a car loan.  If the charges came from clothes, food, etc. for the family, then it can/should be shared.

Spousal support is usually based on the recipient's need and the payor's ability to pay.  "Need" and "ability to pay" are based upon income and expenses.  Work up a budget.  Be realistic.  Whatever you cut now, may be gone for good.

Actually, this depends heavily on your state. Houses and cars are considered property whose value has to be divided, although many judges (in my experience anyhow) will not look kindly on making the wife and kids move out of the house unless she is absolutely willing to do so - without coercion from the spouse.

Support is usually dictated by law. When I divorced, I got "joint" custody, but lost 33% of my income by law to the ex - who also did not have to account for it. And her income had nothing to do with it. So on top of that, I was buying the kids clothes, shoes, school supplies and all of the other things she "forgot" to buy them, while remembering to buy all the things she wanted.

Some states are changing. MN just changed their laws to take into account both incomes, so things may be different where you are.

I have to say, though, that I am kind of surprised that I have actually been able to hold it together as well as I have. I think that once I had a good old fashioned sob fest and got it out of my system, all that's left is the cold, raw need to survive, not only for myself, but for the boys as well. I have an appointment with a lawyer, and have mapped out what I hope the next year looks like so that I have a plan and goals in place...as well as a few contingency plans to boot. That makes all the difference, just having a direction to go and to be able to move forward with purpose. All the good advice I have gotten here has played heavily into that, and, again, I am grateful to all who have posted.

Thank you!!

Not to be a downer here, Wintersparrow, but it will probably hit you. The more you think it won't the more likely that one day - without warning - it will come. It is normal, but a part of you may still be in denial at the moment - also normal. I went through that with my divorce - and I wanted that divorce after 4 years of committed marriage counseling and no improvement.

May God help you find peace and be strong for your children.

[Kara]

Not to be a downer here, Wintersparrow, but it will probably hit you. The more you think it won't the more likely that one day - without warning - it will come. It is normal, but a part of you may still be in denial at the moment - also normal.

I think you are right about this, Pathfinder. Since he still hasn't moved out yet, and won't for a while, some days it's strangely normal. Most days, I can't look him in the eye to speak to him, unless the kids are around. I'm hoping when the real rage shows up that I can harness it and redirect it to something more productive than sobbing hysterically and losing the program altogether.

I keep telling myself, as Skiponstars said, "this too shall pass"...and you're right, it just can't go fast enough! My goal is to have this all handled and figured out NLT June 1 of 2010, and having that goal to work toward make it somehow more digestible. The advice I was given here to treat this situation as a financial/business issue has helped knock this down to a manageable emotional size too, otherwise trying to wrap my head around all the implications and possibilities all at once was too overwhelming.

Here's a question that just occurred to me today. What the heck does one do when confronted with the ex's new honey for the first time? On the surface, I feel a little silly asking that, but I truly can't envision it. I've let him know that I won't appreciate him bringing her here from seversl states over, but it's more likely than he will ...he's just not terribly bright that way. Not that I can actually do anything about it. Several things occur to me spontaneously, but none of them are terribly socially acceptable, and I really want to make sure that my kids see me as the sterling example of grace under fire, as opposed to a raging lunatic. Any wisdom anyone has to share on that topic would be most welcome.

Again, thank you all so much for your well wishes and good advice. It's so very much appreciated...hugs to you all!

[ColdHaven]

Here's a question that just occurred to me today. What the heck does one do when confronted with the ex's new honey for the first time? On the surface, I feel a little silly asking that, but I truly can't envision it. I've let him know that I won't appreciate him bringing her here from seversl states over, but it's more likely than he will ...he's just not terribly bright that way. Not that I can actually do anything about it. Several things occur to me spontaneously, but none of them are terribly socially acceptable, and I really want to make sure that my kids see me as the sterling example of grace under fire, as opposed to a raging lunatic. Any wisdom anyone has to share on that topic would be most welcome.

Well I am sure a man's response is going to generally be different than a response a woman would normally take. I responded to the cop my ex ran away with by saying 'Sit down and shut up, this has nothing to do with you, yet.' Generally ever since he hasn't ever said anything to me directly.  I tried to be civil, and calm and just really ignore him like he really wasn't there. I know that is not going to work for everyone or in every situation, but just keeping it civil helped keep some of my sanity on both fronts.

[Pathfinder]

Here's a question that just occurred to me today. What the heck does one do when confronted with the ex's new honey for the first time? On the surface, I feel a little silly asking that, but I truly can't envision it. I've let him know that I won't appreciate him bringing her here from seversl states over, but it's more likely than he will ...he's just not terribly bright that way. Not that I can actually do anything about it. Several things occur to me spontaneously, but none of them are terribly socially acceptable, and I really want to make sure that my kids see me as the sterling example of grace under fire, as opposed to a raging lunatic. Any wisdom anyone has to share on that topic would be most welcome.

Again, thank you all so much for your well wishes and good advice. It's so very much appreciated...hugs to you all!

From a guy's perspective - without the kids around, you tell him under no circumstances is he to bring her to the house until papers are signed and he is out. If he is that clueless to even think that, then look for him to leave sooner than later - for the sake of the kids of course. This is where the lawyer will help,you may actually be on better grounds if you file first as the aggrieved party. If he does anyhow, outwardly, be cool. And take him to the cleaners. For the children, of course . . . 

As for the rage - let it come, don't channel it. I did that, and when my Mom passed away, I found myself out of control as a whole lot of things I bottled up (loss of my Mom, a girlfriend at about the same time, the divorce, etc.) came to the fore. Luckily I was alone, and the raging ended after a while, but I also did some thoughtless and cruel things to others before I regained control. Not a nice way to go, and I am still doing penance - emotionally - for some of it.

But you will get through this, and you are loved. The healing begins when he is gone, though.

Sucks to be another statistic, doesn't it? 

[SuperUltraJulie]

Wintersparrow,

Sorry for your troubles.

As far as financial survival goes: Be sure you collect the money you & the boys are entitled to from your ex-husband.

As far as emotional survival goes: Just take it one day @ a time. It will be painful at first, but eventually you will be OK. Lean on your family & friends. If you can't do that, make new connections with emotionally healthy, positive, and supportive people and lean on them.

[Kara]

It sure does suck to be another statistic, Pathfinder. In comparing myself to others I have seen go through divorce, I am hoping to maneuver myself into a smaller subset of that statistic that survives smartly and with more success. I see so many people make a mess out of their lives just for the sake of revenge, or just because they can't pull themselves together.

When I posted the question about what to do when your ex brings their new squeeze "here", I was making reference to the area I live in. ColdHaven, did your ex really bring her new boyfriend to your home?! Dear God in heaven...I just about fell out of my chair when I read that. That my ex might bring her sorry self to my home never ever occurred to me. I have to applaud your ability to maintain and keep total control of that situation. I do hope my soon to be ex isn't that idiotic. I guess it's just one more scenario to practice in my head...

SuperUltraJulie, thank you for your kind words. Not only have I found tremendous support here, but I have been fortunate in that I have good family support and some from friend that I never expected. I am very thankful for them and you all here.   

Wintersparrow

[Hypntick]

As far as wanting the kids, they're in their teens? Should it go to contested custody are they of age to choose who they prefer to stay with? As much as it may hurt to think so, they may want to stay with him. Not offering a choice can be pretty hard on them. I didn't have a choice myself growing up (not the courts fault my father was military and on a ship at the time.) and it really bothered me for years. As soon as I was able to choose, I moved in with my father. Nothing against my mother, it was her particular choice in followup husband that bothered me.

It's not going to be easy on the kids, there really isn't a lot that can make it easier. One thing that I might suggest as well, no trash talking their father in their presence if you can help it. Let them make up their own minds of how they feel about the situation, but always be there to support them emotionally.

[Sister Wolf]

I might be weird (okay, okay, I AM weird), but I'm a proponent of "best not to marry again until the babes are out".  Becoming wrapped up in your own world with dating and remarrying and all that provides a wealth of instability that will cause nothing but problems for your children, in my opinion.

The kids are the most important part of this.  It's going to be hard on you, Wintersparrow, we have all pointed that out.  But your kids?  This is going to be hell for them.  No, more like hell turned inside out and then made a thousand times worse.  They need mom full time now, more than they have ever needed you before.

That is, of course, my opinion.  I don't have children, so I could be talking out of my ass.  Take it for what it's worth, and know that while I blab, I also support any decision you make regarding your family. 

[SuperUltraJulie]

I might be weird (okay, okay, I AM weird), but I'm a proponent of "best not to marry again until the babes are out".  Becoming wrapped up in your own world with dating and remarrying and all that provides a wealth of instability that will cause nothing but problems for your children, in my opinion.

I don't necessarily agree with this.

I don't think a person's romantic life should stop because of a divorce and because of children. Generally, human beings want & need that type of companionship. Without it, we tend to become lonely & bitter. This will hurt everyone - including the children.

I think that dating under this circumstance has to be done a lot more carefully. I think that the children should not see or meet a love interest until they have been carefully vetted.

Just my nickle...

[Hypntick]

I don't necessarily agree with this.

I don't think a person's romantic life should stop because of a divorce and because of children. Generally, human beings want & need that type of companionship. Without it, we tend to become lonely & bitter. This will hurt everyone - including the children.

I think that dating under this circumstance has to be done a lot more carefully. I think that the children should not see or meet a love interest until they have been carefully vetted.

Just my nickle...

I agree, you do have to be a lot more careful with it. Also if you do choose to date/marry again while the kids are with you be ready for a lot of resentment and hostility from them. Not saying it's 100% certain to happen, but there is a pretty good chance of it.

[Kara]

That whole thing about whether to date or not before the children leave is an easy answer for me..not gonna happen. I only have five years before the last one leaves the nest, and that's a small price to pay for whatever happiness, or at least lack of that kind of stress, it is worth.

While I respect other people's decisions for themselves, I can't imagine why it would be a good idea. In fact, I'm going to press him on not exposing the children to her until they are both past 18 years old. If he complies, great. If not, then at least I tried.

[The Wilderness]

That whole thing about whether to date or not before the children leave is an easy answer for me..not gonna happen. I only have five years before the last one leaves the nest, and that's a small price to pay for whatever happiness, or at least lack of that kind of stress, it is worth.

While I respect other people's decisions for themselves, I can't imagine why it would be a good idea. In fact, I'm going to press him on not exposing the children to her until they are both past 18 years old. If he complies, great. If not, then at least I tried.

You are on the right track, the comments we make in this thread are just our opinions. You need to do what is best for you, we are outsiders looking in. As long as you continue doing what you decide is best for you and your children, you will be fine.

The Wilderness

[SuperUltraJulie]

You are on the right track, the comments we make in this thread are just our opinions. You need to do what is best for you, we are outsiders looking in. As long as you continue doing what you decide is best for you and your children, you will be fine.

The Wilderness

Exactly


(((positive vibes WS)))

[eph2]

It sure does suck to be another statistic, Pathfinder. In comparing myself to others I have seen go through divorce, I am hoping to maneuver myself into a smaller subset of that statistic that survives smartly and with more success. I see so many people make a mess out of their lives just for the sake of revenge, or just because they can't pull themselves together.

Wintersparrow

My family is living proof that it can really pay in the long run to suck it up, be polite when you don't feel like it, and resist "sticking it to" the one who did you wrong.  I had a very similar situation except that our daughter was a new born.  I was as devestated and enraged as anyone else but tried to keep things civil for our daughter's sake.  The little satisfaction I would have gotten from raking him over the coals could never be worth the years of peaceful coexistance that we have been able to manage.  It is easier to manage the relationship on your terms if you can keep your head.  Just my two cents.  You sound strong.  You'll make it just fine.

[mamabear]

Wintersparrow, How are you and your boys doing now? I hope that you are doing okay and hanging in there. As I read this thread, I wish that I had known some of the things shared. I made several mistakes, but the biggest one was not being prepared for what happened.

I also agree with the idea of not dating until my son is ready to move out. He is at his dad's right now (not by my or my son's choice-long story), but hopefully will be home soon. I did not date while he lived at home, and have not started dating while he was gone. That is not to say that I have never gone out with friends. I do not believe that a person needs to be in a romantic relationship to be whole or complete. I believe that a person needs to be whole and complete before entering a relationship. Take your time and find yourself. You may turn out to be different than you thought. I am. If waiting until your children move out is what works for you, then hold off. Go out with your sons on family outings, and with friends and enjoy the life you now have. Now your life can be whatever you want, and you will never have to hold back.