Author Topic: Merged Topics: How Much Ammo When Bugging Out  (Read 10009 times)

Offline Q_Dog

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Merged Topics: How Much Ammo When Bugging Out
« on: April 06, 2009, 04:18:01 PM »
Just able to get my hands on a good amount of 9mm ammo. It's hard to find these days (at least where I am) and I don't have a whole lot since I just started getting into the firearms aspect of my preps. With this in mind and the fact that as of yet I don't have a perminant BOL to keep extra ammo, I was wondering how much ammo to keep in my BOB.

I suppose things I should look at things like: potential threats, weight(1000 rounds of 9mm weighs more than 25lbs.), space in the BOB. I guess I was just trying to figure out a good amount (not too much, but not too little) and wanted other's perspective. I would have but this in the weapons thread but it's more of an emergency prep issue. All replies and opinions are welcome. Thanks!

Q Dog

Offline chrisdfw

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Re: Merged Topics: How Much Ammo When Bugging Out
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2009, 04:28:38 PM »
I keep 50 rounds of 9mm,
20 rounds of 32
50 rounds of 38 special
50 rounds of 45
100 rounds of 223

Other than that I have bug out containers for each rifle. But I carry a 32 and 38 everyday, so I will have that on me. I also keep a other guns in different places, so depending I may need 9mm or 45. I also have keep a couple of 223 rifles in various locations. But other than those, I don't know which weapon I might have, so there is no sense in stocking up for every possible firearm I might have on me when something happens.

I keep a couple of Mosin Nagant rifles wiht a can or ammo (440 rounds) at different friends houses around the city and state so I always can get to one of those if it is convienient for more lopng range firepower.

Most every bug out plan i have involves vehicles, which are a different story.

Offline BigDanInTX

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Re: Merged Topics: How Much Ammo When Bugging Out
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2009, 04:36:04 PM »
Honestly, as much as you can carry without sacrificing on space for anything more important.  It is an important thing in your BOB, but it is not the most important.  A few hundred rounds is about the most you can realistically carry for space/weight.  If you are talking about ONLY 9mm ammo...For a true BOB, probably 100 rounds is probably the max you will need "just in case".  If you're talking about an "I'm Never Coming Home" type bag, 400+ rounds may be necessary.  Best thing to do is to make your bags as modular as you can.  Have an INCH bag you can attach to your BOB.  If you don't need the INCH, don't attach it.  Either way, keep maybe 10 magazines pre-loaded, with maybe 3 or 4 readily accessible for reloading purposes (if you have the full 15-rd capacity mags, then 6/7 mags max).

If you add in another caliber (say a .22 for hunting), you will have to compensate for the weight of the .22 brick and probably remove some 9mm ammo.

It's a give/take for sure.

You could also consider for an INCH bag carrying some extra ammunition to barter with.  ;-]

Offline UnderTheRadar

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Re: Merged Topics: How Much Ammo When Bugging Out
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2009, 11:23:50 PM »
There is an upper limit to the amount of rounds you can expect to fire before you get shot instead of the bad guys, no matter how good and lucky you are.  Save room for gunshot first aid gear, and plan on how you will drop half your equipment and continue to your BOL with a bullet in your leg traveling 2 miles a day. 

I only carried 6 magazines in the Marine Corps because a four man recon team survives on stealth, and every pound in your ruck makes you less stealthy.  Plus, you have to outrun the heavy infantry with their 800 rounds on the way to the extraction point.  Not heroic, but it was good training for today's survivalist doing escape & evasion.  That is the same reason we never had helmets, flak jackets, spare clothes, etc on missions.

Fatigue from a heavy ruck and stress kills judgement and stealth, and increases your chance of needing more ammo.

Most bug out plans I see never deal with contingency plans for when things go really, really wrong after the SHTF event. 

UnderTheRadar
« Last Edit: April 06, 2009, 11:36:32 PM by UnderTheRadar »

James Yeager

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Re: Merged Topics: How Much Ammo When Bugging Out
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2009, 07:08:38 AM »
There is an upper limit to the amount of rounds you can expect to fire before you get shot instead of the bad guys, no matter how good and lucky you are.  Save room for gunshot first aid gear, and plan on how you will drop half your equipment and continue to your BOL with a bullet in your leg traveling 2 miles a day. 

Listen to this guy.

Offline DeltaEchoVictor

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Re: Merged Topics: How Much Ammo When Bugging Out
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2009, 11:52:03 PM »
I don't keep any ammo in my BOB.  I have an EDC bag that I carry two 16 round spare mags in for my XD.  When I leave the house, it leaves with me along with my pistol.  It's either in the Jeep with me, or hanging by the door ready for when I head out again.

I keep our AR mags loaded and in a mag. bag that hangs on our quilt rack by our bed.  The mag bag is just handy to have to keep all our gear together when we head to the range to shoot the AR's.  If I needed them in a bug out situation they're loaded and can go with us.

In the mag bag I keep 12 loaded 30 round PMAGS, as well as two spare PMAGS in the rifle bag & one loaded mag in each rifle.  That's 7 loaded mags apiece for two rifles & two people, plus two spare mags that aren't usually loaded.

Offline ElyasWolff

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Re: Merged Topics: How Much Ammo When Bugging Out
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2009, 10:40:44 PM »
There is an upper limit to the amount of rounds you can expect to fire before you get shot instead of the bad guys, no matter how good and lucky you are.  Save room for gunshot first aid gear, and plan on how you will drop half your equipment and continue to your BOL with a bullet in your leg traveling 2 miles a day. 

I only carried 6 magazines in the Marine Corps because a four man recon team survives on stealth, and every pound in your ruck makes you less stealthy.  Plus, you have to outrun the heavy infantry with their 800 rounds on the way to the extraction point.  Not heroic, but it was good training for today's survivalist doing escape & evasion.  That is the same reason we never had helmets, flak jackets, spare clothes, etc on missions.

Fatigue from a heavy ruck and stress kills judgement and stealth, and increases your chance of needing more ammo.

Most bug out plans I see never deal with contingency plans for when things go really, really wrong after the SHTF event. 

UnderTheRadar

You get a +1 for that.
I keep 1 spare 13 round XD mag and 2 1911 mags in my BOB. Then more crap in my car, it can deal with the weight.

ken

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Re: Merged Topics: How Much Ammo When Bugging Out
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2009, 09:36:40 AM »
Difficult question, depends so much on the specifics, everyone's situation is different so there is no absolute answer.

 Since I live at my BOL, I would not have the same requirements for my BOB as someone that may have to evacuate on short notice.  I do keep some ammunition cached around the area, so it is not like I would need to carry anything to have access to a supply.  Having several cache locations is a good way to avoid the weight of all that ammunition.  For my most likely scenario, ammunition, and firepower would be way down the list in importance.

For my location, I might carry (100 rounds) of 22 ammunition as that is probably the most practical, light weight ammunition I might need for a survival gun for this location. The biggest threat here would be mountain lions, snakes, and other critters that bite, and not two legged scum.   If I had to go and stay away for a longer period, with a "different" threat, maybe 200 rounds of something "more appropriate" to the threat. 

Where I live, not carrying enough water will kill you a lot faster than forgetting to bring your battle rifle and ammunition.  With water at over 8 pounds a gallon, and no available water other than what you carry, you could not carry the weight of your bug out supplies to sustain yourself for more than a few days in the bush, much less carry a thousand rounds of anything, ha.

Offline Ultio1

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Re: Merged Topics: How Much Ammo When Bugging Out
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2009, 10:05:05 AM »
That is a difficult question. It agree that There is such a thing as carrying to much but......

Do you have ammo at your BOL. If not I would definitely carry more than a combat load. It also depends on what your weapon of choice is. If you only have a .22 carry a couple thousand rounds. I wouldnt break into the boxes and load up 50 mags or anything but I would carry more for a small caliber.

Offline PistolWhipped

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Re: Merged Topics: How Much Ammo When Bugging Out
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2009, 10:55:31 AM »
A few bricks of .22, and a few loaded pistol mags, a box or two of pistol cartridges, and possibly a box or two of rifle ammo, depending on if I grab one.  I have a locked box of ammo and a rifle in the trunk usually, so the BOB usually is light on ammo, and has a .22 pistol in it, and I usually have a carry pistol on me.  I'm thinking of getting a G21 and a few mags to toss in the BOB. They hold a good bit of .45 in a small space.  I'd consider a hand press for reloading if we're talking a "I'm Not Coming Home" bag.

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Re: Merged Topics: How Much Ammo When Bugging Out
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2009, 11:26:45 AM »
Options are what I would stress.  Pack you bag in such a way that you can pare down on the fly and part with portions of your ammo if you end up on foot for a long distance and the weight is going to slow you down.  I've got my XD with 4 magazines that hold 16 rds each and another 100 rds for to reload.

Keep ziplocks handy so maybe you can recover stuff you have to part with if you can stash it out of sight.

Got to keep in mind that in 72 hrs you can cover a lot of ground but that will decrees as you add the weight.  So knowing where you are going is a plus so you can gauge your fitness and ability to cover the distance with a given amount of weight.

Offline Ragzilla

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Re: Merged Topics: How Much Ammo When Bugging Out
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2009, 11:52:58 AM »

Fatigue from a heavy ruck and stress kills judgement and stealth, and increases your chance of needing more ammo.

UnderTheRadar

Excellent points. 
We have deliberately chosen handguns that use the same type of ammo.  It cuts down on what we need to carry/store.
It's nice to have choices, but it's easier not worrying about grabbing the wrong box of ammo.

Offline The Professor

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Re: Merged Topics: How Much Ammo When Bugging Out
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2009, 03:22:22 PM »
The quick answer: Depends upon the situation.

The long answer:  It depends upon the situation.

I've been prepping for over 20 years with a basis on forced relocation and still haven't come up with a satisfactory answer.  That's why my preps are based on a modular system.

Here's why:

First off, Why are you bugging out and what is the general situation?

Since most real-world survival scenarios won't require you to shoot your way from point A to point B, you would most likely not have a requirement to tote 1000 rounds of your favorite battle-rifle ammo.

In my base kits, I  have an additional box of 50 rounds of .45 ACP and three spare magazines for my pistol.

This is because I always have my handgun with me, no matter where I go.  If TSHTF at 3 a.m. and I'm caught in the shower, stark naked, and I only have two hands free, I can grab my handgun and my PERK (Personal Emergency Resource Kit. . my $5 word for my BOB) and have what it takes to survive unsupported for 24 hours, supported with water only for 7 days and supported indefinitely if I can find food and water after that).  The longest time it would take for me to get out of the house would be less than 1 minute, and that's if I'm caught in the basement and have to run all the way upstairs.

That's just the basic kit.

If the situation is a total shoot-out. . .say, a Szechuan Dawn situation or Rabid Mutant Zombies, even my kit might be considered a bit light.

But as one of Uncle Sam's Misguided Children mentioned earlier (Under The Radar), your goal should be to avoid interacting with the aggressors at all cost.

My Deep Doo-Doo Kit uses my Basic Support Module (food, water, shelter (including clothing), commo, etc.) with the addition of a rifle, 10 mags (210 rds battle ammo, 60 optimized ammo) with a  detachable module for ammo support that holds an additional pair of stripper-clipped ammo bandoliers.

So, in the worst case scenario, where I have to grab-and-go with only what I can carry, I have a maximum of 550 rounds.

And that may be too much, because it does limit my mobility a bit.

As a general rule, I would just carry my standard Doo-Doo load  of the rifle with seven fully-loaded 30-rd mags and three 20-rd mags.

Why?  Well, it's like this:

Just as was mentioned earlier, I don't WANT to get into a fight.  I want to get OUT of a fight.  That's why my long-gun is set up for more accurate firing with the capability of short-term higher volume firing (such as is found in CQB).

I'll post the specs on my rifle for the geardos at the end of this posting.

Unless I'm facing a highly-motivated, well-equipped, experienced and professionally-trained group of aggressors, I'm not going to need 1000 rounds of ammo.  In my mind, if I find myself in that situation, I've pretty much already lost and I'm just going to make myself the most expensive piece of meat they've ever butchered.

I honestly can't think of a realistic survival scenario where I have to haul this much ammo around.  If I'm going to be engaging in a coordinated battle, I probably won't be carrying that extensive of a PERK/BOB.  More than likely, I'll be only carrying a bare-bones support kit in the way of high-calorie foodstuffs, med kit and water.

Even coming up with a REALISTIC situation where I would be forced to openly carry a long-gun and utilize it for survival is a bit of a stretch (and trust me, I do love my gun stuff).

Therefore, concentrating on escape and evasion, maintaining a low profile while still having the ability to respond quickly and forcefully to a threat is where I put my emphasis.

So (and finally), to respond: I'd just go with whatever you can carry and feel you would realistically need for the situation.  

If you carry a rifle and 90 rounds of ammo. . .that may be just what you need to survive.  If you can honestly and objectively say you will need more to survive. . .then carry that much.

But again, this is if I have to walk out.

I have to balance that extra weight for ammo with a need for food and other supplies.

In other words: it's all a balancing act.  You put in what you need to survive.  Maybe a little more, just in case.

The Professor
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Rifle Specs: Armstech USR in 5.56.  Basically, a freaking expensive AR with a gain-twist, polygonal-rifled barrel capable of (so far) phenomenal accuracy (Sub MOA groups with 55-grain to 80-grain bullets) and a barrel that lasts freakishly long (reportedly 150,000 rds).  All internals are NP3'd, all springs are Chromium-Silicon.  Scope is a Burris XTR 1-4x24.  From a sandbag, I've hit 12" paper plates out to 700m with 75-gr Hornady TAP and 77-gr Black Hills (w/cannelure) and the same plates out to 450m with 55-gr milspec ammo (accuracy issues are mine, the rifle is capable of much more than I have realistic time to practice for).  Rifle is Duracoated and Tac-Tack'd for my environment.  Weight is a hair over 9 lbs, loaded, mainly because the barrel is a heavy contour in Stainless Steel. . .it'd be heavier, but they fluted the barrel to lighten it.

Offline The Professor

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Re: Merged Topics: How Much Ammo When Bugging Out
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2009, 03:24:32 PM »

Okay, just for all you tinfoil hat crowds. . .I got a chuckle out of the time it was posted : 02:22:22

It ain't 11:11, but then. . .hey, I'm sitting too far away from the window for the mind-control beams to reach me.

P

Offline Q_Dog

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Re: Merged Topics: How Much Ammo When Bugging Out
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2009, 04:38:35 PM »
I have the Springfield XDM 9mm with three mags that I keep loaded in my EDC bag. I suppose another 200 rounds should suffice for my BOB. I know that I need to get a few more mags but at $35 a pop, my focus right now on this end are finding and buying ammo (something that's getting harder to do).

A question that I have is; does keeping the magazines loaded weaken the feed springs? That was the only concern I have keeping the magazines loaded.

Thanks for the previous info on what you all suggest. It is a hard question.

Offline shadowalker_returns

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Re: Merged Topics: How Much Ammo When Bugging Out
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2009, 06:55:03 PM »
I only carry enough to refill the magazines I'm carrying or 100rnds which ever is less. Ammo in your BOB will not save your ass. Ammo in your gun might. Better to go light, move quickly anad invisibly than be burdened by the extra weight of spare (excess) ammo. If I am going to war then the amount I carry is however much I can. For me this works out to:
1 box of 50 CCI Stinger .22LR
1 box of 50 9mm HP
5 box of 20 .308 SP

I also include 1 spare magazine in my BOB for each 3 magazines I carry. I also cache ammo to resupply with.

Regards,
Shadowalker

Offline exoduster18

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Re: Merged Topics: How Much Ammo When Bugging Out
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2009, 11:57:14 AM »
So.....When bugging out, how many magazines for your preferred BOG are preferred? As many as possible? Or do you hold yourself to a limit? I'm thinking but possibly ten for my AR....but then it comes down to weight...

What says everyone else?

Offline DeltaEchoVictor

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Re: Merged Topics: How Much Ammo When Bugging Out
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2009, 01:02:46 PM »
I merged these two topics because they're heading the same direction.

Offline Stein

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Re: Merged Topics: How Much Ammo When Bugging Out
« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2009, 12:02:07 PM »
I have four magazines for my 9mm, two 10 round and two 15 round = 50 rounds total.  I pack another 50-100 rounds in vehicles including some special ammo for hunting.  I am much more worried about being trapped in the mountains somewhere and having to hunt for food than I am getting engaged in lengthy gun battles.  I believe 4 magazines is enough to inflict some damage - lower some heads and get the heck out of there - or certainly enough to defend my vehicle or camp from an intrusion or hold-up.