Ammo shortages (now 2016)? What are you seeing out there?

[Bonnieblue2A]

This is crazy......stop people! Stop buying severely overpriced ammo. Just stop.

Your money is better spent on other preps for a few months.

Buy ammo that is at regular price where ever you find it...if all you can find is shotgun shells stock up on those for now until other pricing comes down a little. We are being our own worst enemies on this.

When the new "normal" establishes itself in a few months.....whether its 2 months from now or 10.....stock up then. Heck you would be better off to set the money aside for now and buy later.

If less than 50 people in each state line up to buy 10 bricks 500 rnd .22lr in a week, that wipes out the entire US production inventory(running at full capacity) of .22lr for that week.

Hoarding now helps no one.

(Hoarding = buying up as much as possible after the shortage hits)

[cmxterra]

If less than 50 people in each state line up to buy 10 bricks 500 rnd .22lr in a week, that wipes out the entire US production inventory(running at full capacity) of .22lr for that week.

Hoarding now helps no one.

(Hoarding = buying up as much as possible after the shortage hits)

What you may call hoarding I would call prudent purchase of a product that is in short supply and the fore thought of being the early bird to get the worm.

There is no such thing as hoarding. Just because one person may WANT product XYZ there is no moral imperative that says that they should be granted easy access to it.

[endurance]

The new normal may include a 20% price increase. 

When I first got into reloading my ammo, the price of primers just increased to $30/1000.  I remember the older guys all complaining how they'd paid less than $20/1000 for so long, and how could this be happening.  Being a newbie, I lacked this context.

If we're entering a world, where retail ammo costs nearly $1/round - I fear this hobby will go the direction of top fuel dragsters and yachting.  Basically a rich man's activity.  If that happens, it won't be long before we lose a lot of innovation and broad cultural support.

What a brilliant long term gun control strategy for "them". 

I'm definitely on my way back to reloading.  I just need a couple things first; primers and powder.  Oh, wait, those aren't available either.  Nevermind.

[Bonnieblue2A]

What you may call hoarding I would call prudent purchase of a product that is in short supply and the fore thought of being the early bird to get the worm.

There is no such thing as hoarding. Just because one person may WANT product XYZ there is no moral imperative that says that they should be granted easy access to it.

...Prepping/stockpiling means having it in place before the shortage occurs ( see cache).  Hoarding is buying up as much as you can amass during the scarcity. There is a distinct difference both in the behavior and the consequences of the action.

I'm not contributing the shortage to hoarding exclusively. The facts are that as soon as people in general saw that the firearms they were planning on purchasing someday might become legally inaccessible, the demand swelled exponentially. The percentage of first time gun buyers out there trying to find goods, be it guns and/or ammunition is at an all time high according to FFL storefronts (read the industry news). The same applies to re-loading components. Long time firearms enthusiasts and beginners alike, finding the ammunition in short supply, turned to reloading when it was something they didn't do before.

[cmxterra]

...Prepping/stockpiling means having it in place before the shortage occurs ( see cache).  Hoarding is buying up as much as you can amass during the scarcity. There is a distinct difference both in the behavior and the consequences of the action.

I'm not contributing the shortage to hoarding exclusively. The facts are that as soon as people in general saw that the firearms they were planning on purchasing someday might become legally inaccessible, the demand swelled exponentially. The percentage of first time gun buyers out there trying to find goods, be it guns and/or ammunition is at an all time high according to FFL storefronts (read the industry news). The same applies to re-loading components. Long time firearms enthusiasts and beginners alike, finding the ammunition in short supply, turned to reloading when it was something they didn't do before.

I think we need to define our terms.

Definition By the Mayo Clinic:
Hoarding is the excessive collection of items, along with the inability to discard them. Hoarding often creates such cramped living conditions that homes may be filled to capacity, with only narrow pathways winding through stacks of clutter. Some people also collect animals, keeping dozens or hundreds of pets often in unsanitary conditions.

Hoarding, also called compulsive hoarding and compulsive hoarding syndrome, may be a symptom of obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD). But many people who hoard don't have other OCD-related symptoms.

People who hoard often don't see it as a problem, making treatment challenging. But intensive treatment can help people who hoard understand their compulsions and live safer, more enjoyable lives.

What I see is people seeing the writing on the wall that "our" government means, if allowed,  to curtail our rights. As such people are buying the products that it sees as possibly being banned,outlawed or becoming crazy expensive . Now if that means that average Joe is not able to get ammo at 6 p.m. because the truck came in at 6 a.m. and someone else was more determined to get that limited supply of ammo, that is the average Joe's problem not that someone else got to it first and was mean and did not leave any for them.

People are snapping up the ammo at TODAYS prices with the thought that tomorrows prices will be higher. It is the reason that places like Cheaper Than Dirt sell their ammo for stupid high prices. Sure the local Walmart might not have your .22 bulk packs for 20 bucks but you can get it from CTD for 100 bucks if you REALLY gotta have it. Supply and Demand. How does it work? (magnets joke)

[ag2]

Purchased a couple small boxes of shotshell at Walmart last night.  (Our ammo at Wallymart was put behind a locked glass door again)  My Walmart's new policy is that you pay for ammo at the counter in sporting goods, or they escort you to a cashier at the front of the store.  When I asked about this they said that they were preparing for much higher prices in ammo because of the new ammo tax.  The guy said that they expect people to try to steal ammo even more soon because new ammo taxes will be $2 - $3 per box.

I have not found anything to support this.  I suspect the reason for the escort is simply the tendency for some folks to steal due to scarcity.  Of course, I could be wrong and would not be surprised if this changed at any moment.

[gundog]

They are not jacking up prices. This IS regular priced ammo and they can not keep it in stock.

I understand and I think it's fine to buy regular priced ammo.....or just slightly above "regular" priced ammo when it's available. That was my point exactly.

Paying $200 for a brick of .22 is something we all need to step back from for a minute.

[cmxterra]

I understand and I think it's fine to buy regular priced ammo.....or just slightly above "regular" priced ammo when it's available. That was my point exactly.

Paying $200 for a brick of .22 is something we all need to step back from for a minute.

@ 200.00 for a brick of .22 I am selling. 

[endurance]

Purchased a couple small boxes of shotshell at Walmart last night.  (Our ammo at Wallymart was put behind a locked glass door again)  My Walmart's new policy is that you pay for ammo at the counter in sporting goods, or they escort you to a cashier at the front of the store.  When I asked about this they said that they were preparing for much higher prices in ammo because of the new ammo tax.  The guy said that they expect people to try to steal ammo even more soon because new ammo taxes will be $2 - $3 per box.

I have not found anything to support this.  I suspect the reason for the escort is simply the tendency for some folks to steal due to scarcity.  Of course, I could be wrong and would not be surprised if this changed at any moment.

This probably deserves it's own thread at this point, but a quick search revealed that there are proposals, but there's no new tax that has passed.  http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/03/11/lawmakers-eye-new-taxes-for-guns-ammo/

To me, taxing ammo is the exact opposite of the way to address the issue.  The typical street thug isn't spending time at the range training.  To him, rounds could cost $5 a piece and they couldn't care less.  But for you and I, folks who actually train seriously, even a few pennies a round are significant when you're shooting 300+ rounds a month in training.  Again, punishing the innocent while ignoring the problem.

Guess it's time for a whole new round of e-mails to my congress critters.

[Bonnieblue2A]

There are some alternatives to the ammo shortage for skills building. Consider the use of SIRT, Beam Hit etc.... for those skills where it is not an absolute requirement to send rounds downrange.

[dep190]

Just left my local Dick's Sporting goods and they had about ten boxes of 3006 gameloads and a couple boxes of 17HMR and a buch of shot shells and deer slugs but zero twenty twos or handgun ammo!

Our local walmart had a couple boxes of 270/243 and zero 22 and no handgun ammo and almost no shotshells left.



enclosed is a link to a forbs article on government ammo buying!

.6 Billion Rounds Of Ammo For Homeland Security? It's Time For A National Conversation

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ralphbenko/2013/03/11/1-6-billion-rounds-of-ammo-for-homeland-security-its-time-for-a-national-conversation/

[ncjeeper]

Local small town hardware store had some 556 for 90 cents a round with a 2 box limit.

[NWPilgrim]

Almost of the components I ordered in early Feb have now arrived.  Just received 1,000 JHP .40" bullets today direct from Montana Gold.  They estimated 4-6 weeks on their web page and it was about 5 weeks. Last week received the 500 .308" AMAX bullets from Powder Valley and 1,000 240 gr .429" bullets direct from Missouri Bullet.  Only outstanding order is for some Wolf 223 primers from Bruno's Shooting ut I think they estimated it would be April.

So, basically the various companies are doing a good job estimating their backlog and future ship dates.  Seems like they are better organized for it this time than in 2009.  Only thing I wish I could get is Varget powder.  It is amazing in my .30-06 Garand loads but those cases drink up a lot of powder.  I worked up some alternate loads with BLC2 and H4895, so I will use those for practice and save the Varget for matches or 600 yd practice.

[SloSheepdog]

I saw the first .22 since this started at Walmart. They had just come in, and there was only a dozen boxes of 350 rounds federal auto match. I got two for me and one for a friend. $13 each.

Looking back, I should have bought it all.  This was before the 3 box limit. I'm fed up with this run on ammo and guns, and the inflated prices on the secondary market are ridiculous still.  I'm really looking forward to the day when the manufacturers catch up.

[SloSheepdog]

This is crazy......stop people! Stop buying severly overpriced ammo.

I know I've posted in this thread a bunch, but I haven't paid more than pre-crazy-times (my new official term) prices for anything.  I'm glad I had what ammo I did have pre-crazy-times, and I understand how others might not be in the same situation.  I'm frustrated at the people who are buying up what does get on the shelves and then turning it around to sell at higher prices. They will continue as long as the demand is there, I suppose.

And like you advised, I've been investing in other areas in the meantime.  Silver has dropped lately, and that may be a better move right now.  Just saying, copper jacketed lead in brass is not the only precious metal 

[Scottman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjVqZ_--0Cs The Ammo Shortage is an Illusion

[Canadian Prepper]

I picked up four bricks of Remington Thunderbold .22LR for $16.45 plus 13% sales tax ($74.35 combined). The store (Lebaron Outdoors Products, Mississauga Ontario) also had Winchester Wildcat for $16.99 and a couple other brands for about $27-30 each, maybe a bit over $30 for Remington Yellow Jackets.

The cashier agreed that now was the time to buy, but there was certainly enough for other shooters looking to stock up, as we're expecting things to dry up in the next couple of months. 

[Bradbn4]

I just found a youtube video - CCI mfg 4 million cases a day of 22lr. from that one mfg...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvK9QlQtrKI

[4bull]

In the paper today 5000 rounds of .223 for .60 a round , 3000.00 .

So today i get a lead that there reloading .223 in the area ? then the guy tells me that they have 2 million rounds spoken for my cheaper than dirt . Im still on the trail, then they only sell whole sale ,ok im looking in to it .

[Sid]

It has been interesting to watch this develop.  First the semi-auto guns disappeared; one week they were there, and the next week they were gone.  Then the nato caliber ammo disappeared, and gradually everything else has disappeared, too.  Even quality replacement gun stocks to build a good sniper setup are gone.  Ammo prices are about double what they were in December, 2012 and triple what they were in December, 2011.  If you daily check what ammo is available using sites like http://ammoseek.com/ or http://www.gunbot.net/ammo/223-556/ you will see that anything even close to being reasonable priced disappears very quickly.  You need to be a magician or very lucky to catch a shipment at Walmart before it disappears.  What surprises me most is the 22lr that is nowhere to be found.

I think people aren't just panicking over possible gun control, or prepping for social breakdown.  It think more and more people are thinking revolution or civil war.

[Downeastwaves]

Shortage in Maine per this report last night:

http://www.wabi.tv/news/38381/gun-sale-spike-brings-ammo-shortage

DEW

[pokeshell]

In Minnesota (metro area)we are pretty set. I am stocked back up to my normal level, and will go back to regular training. I had been working on pistol draw, dry fire exercises.

I had time Tuesday, and went to 3 stores, only .22 was hard to find, but on place still had about 100 boxes of 500 rounds @ 4 cents.
Fleet Farm Chaska Friday had 3 Bushmaster ARs for $939 and 1 AK for $899.  I purchased 2 boxes of 250 rounds .380.
I went to Dicks in EP yesterday they had aqll sorts of ammo. I got:
 9mm two 500 round boxes of winchester ball ammo.  Corbon for my carry 120 rds.
.22 LR 500 rounds at 4 cents a shot
.22 magnum 100 rounds at 5 cents a round
They had a 2 box per type limit

All ammo was purchased at normal pricing. $16.99 for 500 9mm

Sportsman in St Louis Park, small mom and pop shop that ebbs and flows with market.
10-15 ARs from 1300-2500
I was there as the DPMS box was deleiverd, it was full of AR lowers, they 'wanted' $299 each, they got them for MUCH less. By my calculations, DPMS has not raised prices.

@cmxterra Fleet Farm has tins of 750 and 1000 rounds in .223 and 7.26x39 (it is not the ammo shelf you shot picture of, it is about 50 feet away near the coolers) at both Lakeville and Chaska.

[spooky-1]

I know this is for ammo but look what i found on Sat 9 mar 2013 at cabelas st louis mills store

[pokeshell]

I know this is for ammo but look what i found on Sat 9 mar 2013 at cabelas st louis mills store

We got stacks like that for AK, but no AR without purchase of an AR, then you are limited to 4 total.

[spooky-1]

yeah, and there were no linesor hoarding going on, most people just picked one up and passed them by. i would have picked some up, but my wife has cut me off from "gun stuff" purchasing

[Bonnieblue2A]

I know this is for ammo but look what i found on Sat 9 mar 2013 at cabelas st louis mills store

A whole bin of thermo-melt magazines. I'm not certain a return of low-quality magazines is much to get excited about. Now were that bin filled with P-Mags, that would be worth cheering. YMMV.

[Smurf Hunter]

A whole bin of thermo-melt magazines. I'm not certain a return of low-quality magazines is much to get excited about. Now were that bin filled with P-Mags, that would be worth cheering. YMMV.

That's over priced and sub standard product, but at least there's something available.  Remember, only 4 months ago Wholesale Sports had bins like that filled with 30 round P-mags for $9.99.

[Pathman]

I have been hunting for .25 auto for a couple of months now. All online were backordered until July. Stores empty, none at gun show.  Local store finally got some in. Paid $30 for one box of 50. Ball ofcourse, no hollowpoint anywhere.

[gartglass]

Im not certain what Jack's talking about that bulkammo has done minimal increases in price. what ive bought of 22lr and 9mm back in Oct'12 im seeing 100%+ markup.

I'll be happy when this craziness is over, and hopefully their prices resume pre-BS, because I purchased frequently from them with never an issue.

Just my thoughts from a long term forum stalker, first time poster. be well all
jojiggler

[Chemsoldier]

I posted this on another forum but it is a pretty decent encapsulation of my thoughts on the current demand, allegations of "price gouging" and how to fix the shortage.

"The market is working.

This is what happens when you have a strong "we won't price gouge campaign."  Some stores hold their prices at pre-demand spike levels, they get sold out by people who see their prices as so low they can make money by selling them elsewhere.  Instead of gouging their customers in price point they gouge who has the time to camp out before they open, who is lucky enough to win a lottery (some stores are handing out numbers when people walk in and then holding a drawing to see who will have the option to pick product).  So they wont f*ck you in the pocketbook, just if you have a work schedule that wont let you get there early.

If instead, prices from most vendors rose more or less uniformly to the level the market would bear, the demand would be as minimized as possible and the frenzy of speculative buying would be minimal since there is little profit margin.  Additionally, if prices were up for most vendors more profit gives incentive for more supply to become available.  Importers will have more profit incentive to get more ammo from elsewhere and manufacturers have additional incentive and capital to build more capacity.

In reality there IS some run on ammo that is not related to speculation...well not financial speculation at least.  That is, gun owners who used to go ammo shopping every week realize that with these runs on ammo effects their ability to go shoot and that with gun control on the march it might be better to have a grand or two for all their major calibers.  They are investing in ammo futures as a hedge against the future.  I have just run into it because I had over a 1K in my major calibers, I stopped buying ammo the day of the election.  I am running low on my primary pistol caliber so I have gone to rifle practice for a bit.

So in summary, the free market is working just fine, but its correction of demand is being slowed by not all actors allowing market forces to work.  There is nothing wrong with it, but we need to acknowledge that it will slow the market's correction.    The market is not messing up anymore than the weather does when it rains."