As you already mentioned, it would be illegal for your company to do any of that.
I am VERY thorough when I make a decision like this and cover my bases well in advance, and keep my cards hidden until the appropriate time.
I spent my lunch at the bank branch office. And YES — your employer CAN take money out of your checking account if they have the routing and account number, as MOST direct deposit agreements you sign have a clause saying you authorize them to do so when you sign it. I do not have a copy of that document, nor could I even GET one at this point so I am assuming it has that clause.
There is a handy bit of advice for anyone on this forum who gets direct deposit. I am thinking that I may not sign up ever again for it, even though it is convenient for this reason. I never want to experience the fear of some corporate monster having the keys to my livelihood like this again.
Question 1, is this an threat they have acted on with someone else or are they just trying to bluff their employees? Idle threat playing against the ignorance of the employees?
There are two specific employees I am close with who told me EVERYTHING the company did to them when they resigned in the proper manner. There has been a mass exodus for several months here, and now the CEO is retaliating against people as the company continues to melt down. It is THAT reason, combined with the fact I am throwing a week's pay in the garbage if I do a "proper" resignation that I refuse to do so.
I refuse to essentially "PAY" them a week's pay in order to do things the "RIGHT" way, when I can use the "F-YOU" method and get PAID for it. I am a marketing douche and marketing people have no ethics to begin with (ask the late, great Bill Hicks)!
Question 2, how much money is "on the table" that you would be walking away from? A couple of days might be worth just walking away from (since you have a new and better job waiting.) Couple of weeks might be worth fighting for. There is always the small claims court option.
I will just say I am planning on buying myself a new Macbook to replace the one I am giving back to the company — so it is enough for me to care about. I am ALSO getting a week's of VERY NEEDED vacation before I start this new job instead of losing the money AND the vacation. I won't be able to take a vacation at this new job for several months, so I am getting that out of the way and getting down-time. I have spent 3+ nights a week at coffee shops working from 5:30 PM until midnight looking for a new job since the first week of September — so I am BEAT!!!
Just don't burn bridges as you leave, even in a hostile work environment. Had a place stealing money from it's employees and when people found out they went crazy. As everyone started leaving they destroyed or stole equipment or just went off on everybody before they left. I told owners they would be hearing from my attorney and few weeks later we settled, but said goodbye to everyone else and asked that we keep in touch looking for work. One of the managers ended up bringing me with him to our next gig and that wouldn't have happened if I went off the handle.
In this case, I will be VERY professional. I am going to send a resignation email to everyone I work with who I like in the company (my entire marketing department, plus people in other departments I really like) explaining why I am doing it, and letting them know I will always give them a good reference whenever their name comes up (I already have for a few people who others have asked me about just this week).
I will completely "clean" my computer of personal files, unlock any passwords so the next owner can jump right in, leave my backup files easily accessible, turn in my keys and parking pass to the front desk recepitionist, and go into the HR office and make a formal announcement at the end of my last day (before they go home). There will be no destruction of property, or bad-mouthing people, or anything of the sort. I will just not be giving them any notice before I resign. It will be swifter and more un-announced than General Petraeus's.
The company will have no other reason to retaliate other than to try and claim they do not want to pay me for a vacation I already took and got paid for.
I have burned bridges before with no effect on my career. This will be the 4th time I believe (at least). Now, there is "burning a bridge" and "blowing it up with 10lbs of C4, dropping a nuke, and leaving the territory un-inhabitable for the human population for the next 50 years" — of which I have done both.
As far as future reference goes — there are 2 sides to this coin. Hiring managers (the ones who MAKE the decisions) don't care about anything other than if you can do the job above and beyond expectations and solve their problems. In fact, throughout my career I have found that EVERY SINGLE TIME standing up for yourself rather than letting a company "F" you up the "A" works in my favor every single time. Leaders in companies tend to respect me more when they know I am not putting up with games than if I am a "yes man" who does what he is told. This has been the case every single time in my career.
IN FACT — some of my "burning bridges" stories have HELPED me get a job because of a "bond" created by someone in a NEW company who finds the story amusing or has done something similar themselves.
The OTHER SIDE of this coin are HUMAN RESOURCE personell and RECRUITERS.
THEY DO look at your employment history and try to discount you based on things of that nature. It is the HR/Recruiter's job to find "OBEDIENT WORKERS" (as George Carlin would say).
For the type of work I do, I always circumvent HR people and go right to the decision makers, regardless of whatever under-handed tactics I need to use to get there. I may make a phone call pretending to be a vendor asking who the Director of Marketing is, or what have you, and THEN come around the back side and send a cover letter / resume to them. I use back door channels and friends to find jobs.
For example — at THIS JOB — I sent my resume here on THREE SEPERATE OCCASIIONS for job postings over a 6 month span. I never got called in for an interview.
A friend of mine is good friends with one of the Directors here, and gave me his email address saying I could use him for a referral. I sent my resume to THAT PERSON — and had a job with an offer in-hand 3 days later.
In my INTERVIEW here, I met with various VPs and a few other developers, etc. and had GREAT REPORT with all of them immediately. The job was in the bag. THEN — I had to meet with the direcror of HUMAN RESOURCES, who sat there belittling me — looking at my resume saying "Well, I see here that between April of 2006 and June of 2006 you have a gap in your employment, WHY IS THAT!!!?
?"
I said "VACATION" — I knew what she was up to and I wasn't going to sit there and let her treat me like crap even if it meant not getting the job.
THEN — she goes on "Well I can see you are a 'job hopper' and that you don't tend to stay at companies very long…"
I said "Well, if you look closely you will see that I spent several years at the companies I felt treated me with respect and paid me well."
She finally ended the conversation with "Well, if it were up to ME, I sure would not hire you, but unfortunately that decision is not mine to make. How much money are you expecting if by chance we do make you an offer?"
I told her and she laughed.
2 days later I could hear the ANGER in her voice as she called me to say not only was I being hired for the job, but the company decided to make me an offer higher than the number I asked her for. She was STILL looking for ways to disqualify me, but it backfired on her and here's why…
LATER ON down the road, my creative director here was looking for a new Graphic Designer and told a good friend of his to send in his resume and the deal was sealed.
3 weeks go by, and the CD hasn't heard anything and figured he wasn't looking anymore. The designer emailed him one day asking if he received the resume, and the creative director HAD NOT.
When he called up human resources and asked her why he never got this resume and she barked at him "Oh, I know who you are talking about. I didn't think he was any good so I threw it away."
The Human Resources "B" lost her job a week later, and the guy who's resume she threw in the trash is NOW the creative director of the company (because the old one quit).
You don't mess with the marketing department in a company that (at the time) is doing well. The marketing people are treated like GOLD when sales are good and have the run of the show. When things are BAD we are the first ones out the door.
With RECRUITERS — they are the same way as HR. I ignore them COMPLETELY. I refuse to return their calls, emails, and will never respond to a job ad that points to a recruiter's inbox. In fact when I SEE a job listing from a recruiter I usually try and use whatever back-handed tactic I can use to figure out who the company and contact is and go after it myself.
Companies also HATE hiring from recruiters when they can find someone directly. Going behind their backs just gets you more respect from the employer as a "go getter."
However, I have TWO recruiters who are personal friends of mine and LOVE sending me out on jobs because I always make them look good. The new job I have came from one of these recruiters.
Since she is a personal friend of mine, she ALREADY KNOWS what I am doing here and thinks it is HYSTERICAL and wishes more people had the balls to stand up to crappy companies.
I only went on a rant like this because people are CONSTANTLY telling me how I am going to "get in trouble" for "breaking the rules."
I'm sorry kids, but "breaking the rules" is how you get AHEAD. Why send out 200 resumes into a black hole and never get a callback when you can find the hiring manager and cut right to the chase.
Who wins in our society? The BANKSTERS or the "sheep" who bail them out?
The BANKSTERS are getting taxpayer funded bonuses by breaking the rules while the OBEDIENT WORKERS are giving up their bonuses and tax money to fund them.
ENOUGH SAID.
I am cut - throat, but you are looking at someone who has also been FIRED from a job for GOING TO THE HOSPITAL FOR THE BIRTH OF MY SON… So I am JUST AS CUT-THROAT as the people I work for. It cuts both ways sometimes and you just have to take your lumps as you go.
That being said, I am not a JERK. I keep it professional when I can. There was one company I walked out on who stopped payment on my last paycheck and it was taken back out of my account (it "bounced" 10 days after the deposit was made). I never went back after them for it because at the TIME, it wasn't worth my time. I had to move on.
This time it is worth getting paid what I am owed.
Wouldnt hurt to let the new employer know exactly whats going on at the current place-
Without divuldging company secrets, just the way the mass exodus is handled....
Keeping them aware, up front, of potentially negative actions by your current employer is helpful.
It would certainly be unlawful, it may suprise your new employer and create tension they dont need.
There's no need for my new employer to know anything. The Recruiter who is paying me knows and agrees with ME 110% and is even taking me out to dinner sometime next week so we can laugh and drink up a toast to her commission and my new job. If they retaliate against me, I will keep it to myself and handle it professionally.
Sueing your old employer can taint you for any future employers as they may find this in a check of your work record.
Lesson to learn is take your vacation time, don't try to bank it. Failing companies are always going to minimize expenses by not paying for old vacation time.
So I agree with your exit strategy. Move to the new job forget completely about anything left in the old one, it's not worth stressing on.
I agree. I had already planned to use the vacation time before this new job came along. I cannot push back my new start date and have no intention of losing the vacation time and pay. If they retaliate against me when I leave, then I will report them to the Dept. of Labor, and I will go to small claims court just to be a dick. The company has a horrible reputation in town right now and people would find it amusing more than detrimental in my future job searches, PLUS that puts it in the head of a new employer not to mess with me right on day one.
What did Tony Soprano say to do on your first day in prison? "Walk right up to the biggest baddest dude in the joint, and knock him on his ass for no reason. Then, nobody will ever mess witchew!!!"
I would rather lose a job because someone thinks I won't put up with their crap than to get a crappy job because I sit there and "take it."
The only thing I would advise you to do is to check your specific states laws and make sure you are not breaking any of them (if you are, it sounds like your employer will go after you)
Here in Illinois I could leave Monday and my employer couldn't do anything about it. They could also fire me Monday, and as long as it wasn't in a discriminatory fashion, I couldn't really do anything about it.
Every state is a bit different though.
My state is an "At Will" state — and I can be terminated or resign at any time without notice with no repercussions or recourse. I know all about these things from past experiences.
The company that fired me for going to the hospital for the birth of my son actually CONTESTED my unemployment, and I fought back against them HARD and won that too. I REFUSE to let crooks win. When someone picks a fight with me they lose, that is just it. I make it my life's work to win at that point and I will do whatever is necessary. I am not vengeful, more like an animal who just wants to be left alone until backed in a corner.
SO, that leads to the reason for my leaving this way. The company DOES NOT owe me for my accrued vacation time when I leave. That is at the discretion of the company to give it out or not, however they DO OWE ME under no uncertain terms for ANY DAYS I actually WORK.
Therefore, by TAKING my vacation, waiting until I am actually PAID for it, and THEN quitting — they still owe me for that last week I will be here waiting to get paid for the pay period where I took that vacation.
Let's say I resign the DAY BEFORE I intend to, then they could stick me unpaid for that week of vacation and I have no recourse against them. Once that money is in my hands it is a done deal, then I have one more week of ACTUAL WORK they still owe me for.
I spent all last weekend thinking this through so this isn't just some "heat of the moment" decision. This time it works out in my favor to do it this way, and since the company will not exist in a year or two (remember, $18 DOLLARS per share down to $.36 CENTS per share). They are getting de-listed from the NASDAQ as I type this.
I have TEN SOLID REFERENCES, including the OLD creative director, the NEW creative director, and I am 100% certain the VP of marketing who is still HERE will back me up because he is ALSO someone like me who doesn't put up with anyone's crap — and I would not be surprised if he calls me out for a beer when this is all said and done to clear any air once I am out the door.
There aren't any people who disagree with me, except for say my MOTHER if I were to tell her (which I don't discuss business with her). She would just say the whole corporate pe-on response of "Do what you are told and don't burn that bridge" — when it has been my 16 years of experience that tells me to BURN THAT SUCKER if you must, but as any military strategist would tell you, LEAVE IT INTACT if you can hold the position and use it as a strategic position in the future. If not, BLOW THE SUCKER TO KINGDOM COME!!!
I will update this as things shake down. I do not expect any major upset in my life as a result of this, I am just covering my bases well in advance as anyone with half a brain should do in the situation.
It is all about SURVIVAL baby, and when you are head over heels in debt as I am, every "week's worth" of pay helps!
I am much more concerned about getting out of debt and protecting myself and my family than I am about "doing the right thing" and trust me, the company you work for by and large is more concerned about "maximizing profit" than doing the "right thing" as well.
Ask Bayer about when they sold the HIV tainted Factor H blood transfusion packs to AFRICA instead of throwing them in the GARBAGE because it was more profitable to give a bunch of "dirt people" some AIDS IN A BAG than it was to throw them out. "Gotta clear that inventory at cost if we can" said some marketing douche bag at the conference room table.
