Author Topic: Canning lids breaking seal after storage.  (Read 9890 times)

Offline LetMBee

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Canning lids breaking seal after storage.
« on: August 03, 2010, 07:54:55 PM »
Has anyone had any problems with recently bought canning lids not staying sealed after a couple of days?  I just got a call from a friend of mine having troubles.  His wife has been canning for many years, so I do not "think" it was a procedural problem, but I didn't watch her can this stuff.  He claims that the lids appear as if they were hit from the inside with a chisel or something upon coming out of the canner.  They appear to seal until about 48-72 hours after canning, then they lose seal.  He has seen this after using a pressure cooker and hot water bath.   I am using lids from the same manufacturer but I bought two cases a couple of years ago and haven't boughten any recently.  I will try to get a picture of the lids if I make it over to his house soon.

Whew first post..... 

Any info would be a major help....

JICase


Offline LvsChant

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Re: Canning lids breaking seal after storage.
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2010, 09:04:38 PM »
I have no idea... I've never had this problem. However, sometimes lids appear to be sealed, but aren't really well-sealed. They should be tested by removing the rings and lifting one side of the jar by the lid to see if it holds. It should be able to stay sealed even as a fairly heavy jar is tilted to the side by a fingertip on the lid edge... sometimes they'll pop off with just a slight pressure if they aren't sealed properly.

Offline Fritz_H

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Re: Canning lids breaking seal after storage.
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2010, 09:35:40 PM »
From the description I wonder if it wasn't just a bad batch of lids with a manufacturing error.  Did your friend inspect the lids before use or did he do what I do and just dump them from the box into the sterilizing water?

Offline LetMBee

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Re: Canning lids breaking seal after storage.
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2010, 10:00:19 PM »
He said he inspected them but I wasn't there.  I am pretty anal when canning and inspect everything, but I don't know if that was done.

Thanks

Offline Prag

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Re: Canning lids breaking seal after storage.
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2010, 04:33:37 AM »
I've been using a mixture of Ball & Kerr lids and haven't had any failures to seal (fortunately  :)).

As a routine I always inspect the lids prior to heating them and then again prior to placing them on the jars.


The "lid check" LvsChant suggested is a good idea.


Regards,

Prag

Offline BoltsFan

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Re: Canning lids breaking seal after storage.
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2010, 11:53:24 AM »
I have an issue with the way they package jars. They put the lids and rings on them then wrap them. I've noticed some seals already indented by the jars. They used to put them in boxes separately.  I emailed Ball about it.

Offline Morning Sunshine

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Re: Canning lids breaking seal after storage.
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2010, 01:12:00 PM »
I have an issue with the way they package jars. They put the lids and rings on them then wrap them. I've noticed some seals already indented by the jars. They used to put them in boxes separately.  I emailed Ball about it.

I have issues with the boxes they come in now.  Used to be the boxes were good for storage.  not anymore.

Offline LetMBee

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Re: Canning lids breaking seal after storage.
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2010, 02:22:37 PM »
I have been using paper boxes for can storage.  I have either been given, or bought all of my canning jars at flea markets.  You need to watch for chips, but if they look clean they probably are.  If you desire to stack them place your jars in there, then make a line where the tops are.  Then cut the box down to either quart or pint height.  Then when you stack them they don't cave in the tops of the boxes, and it saves much space.  I work in a place that wastes paper like it is going out of style (three cases a week).  I made a template from the excess box material from the first ones I made.  Since then when I need more storage I just make a new storage container.  They are even nicer than the old boxes that the jars used to come in.

I have three towers in a closet that contain all of my empties, floor to ceiling.  The boxes will hold 12 quart jars and bands, and 15 pint jars and bands. 

JICase


Offline theadob

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Re: Canning lids breaking seal after storage.
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2010, 07:06:51 PM »
do you heat your lids before sealing?  I boil my lids before putting them on but you have to make sure they are dry before putting them on.  Heating gives them a better seal and I find that a lot of canners in the classes that i teach forget this step.

Offline Fritz_H

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Re: Canning lids breaking seal after storage.
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2010, 10:19:39 PM »
I have issues with the boxes they come in now.  Used to be the boxes were good for storage.  not anymore.

x2

Offline Pathfinder

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Re: Canning lids breaking seal after storage.
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2010, 05:32:15 AM »
Heating the lids is a great idea, really helps, especially with the newer, seemingly thinner material on the sealing edge.

I have 2 sets of failures. One, using the Foodsaver, I often have to seal a jar 2-4 times before it takes, even with heated lids. After the 3rd or 4th failure, I reboil the lid and use a different one.

The other failure I had were some apricots I was trying to can as an experiment. Filled the jars about 80%, used the Foodsaver, and sealed everything. Within 2 days, all but 1 jar had broken the seal. I think maybe the bags would work better for dried fruit.

Offline TwoBluesMama

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Re: Canning lids breaking seal after storage.
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2010, 10:56:24 PM »
Not having seen what this really looks like my first idea would be that the canner got too hot (hit 15 lbs. or more of pressure at some point) and caused the food inside, because of being too hot, to ooze out. After completely cooling the lids lost their seal due to the food on the rims.  I've never had a lid of any brand fail except with user failure (nick in rim of jar, failure to heat lids well, too greasy of food I tried to can causing oozing, etc.)  I'd be curious to see a photo or two.  Keep us posted since I'm starting this years canning this past week.  Blessings, TBM

Offline LetMBee

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Re: Canning lids breaking seal after storage.
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2010, 06:40:11 AM »
My friend's wife could have gotten them too hot, though she is a seasoned canner.  I will be going to his house to check out his chicken coup.  He is an out of work carpenter, claims that with as much time as he has spent on it he calls it his "Chicken Church". 

My wife and I made 10 quarts of black berry jam yesterday, in a mix of half pint, and pint jars.  Trying to get that freezer cleared out before deer season.       

Offline LvsChant

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Re: Canning lids breaking seal after storage.
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2010, 07:00:38 AM »
Heating the lids is a great idea, really helps, especially with the newer, seemingly thinner material on the sealing edge.

I have 2 sets of failures. One, using the Foodsaver, I often have to seal a jar 2-4 times before it takes, even with heated lids. After the 3rd or 4th failure, I reboil the lid and use a different one.

The other failure I had were some apricots I was trying to can as an experiment. Filled the jars about 80%, used the Foodsaver, and sealed everything. Within 2 days, all but 1 jar had broken the seal. I think maybe the bags would work better for dried fruit.

I haven't had any loss of seal on my dried foods with standard jars with 2-part lid/rings. I did have one jar with a lid that I sealed up with the canister that kept losing suction (had to give that one up... I think it was a small glass salsa jar with a screw on lid). Usually I don't even have any problem with those re-used pasta jars, etc. that I seal up in the canister. When I was just starting out with storing dried foods, I overfilled the jars a couple of times and couldn't get them to keep a good seal, so I make sure to leave about 1/2 to 3/4 inch headspace above the dried foods and now have no problem. Try vacuum sealing marshmallows sometime when you have extras that you want to store... they are really fun. Looks like a jar of marshmallow creme by the time you get finished.

JIcase... that's a lot of jam! congratulations.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2010, 07:02:43 AM by LvsChant »

Offline TwoBluesMama

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Re: Canning lids breaking seal after storage.
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2010, 09:13:31 AM »
My friend's wife could have gotten them too hot, though she is a seasoned canner.  I will be going to his house to check out his chicken coup.  He is an out of work carpenter, claims that with as much time as he has spent on it he calls it his "Chicken Church". 

My wife and I made 10 quarts of black berry jam yesterday, in a mix of half pint, and pint jars.  Trying to get that freezer cleared out before deer season.       

Have you thought about canning any of your deer meat?  I do this with some of our game for a couple of reasons -  one, in case the freezer dies I won't lose all our meat and two, it makes life simple when you need to do dinner in a hurry. Canned meat is much like all day cooked roast - very tender.  We still freeze some steaks and hamburger and nice roasts but everything else gets canned.  Nice job on the jam.  Blessings, TBM

Offline Fritz_H

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Re: Canning lids breaking seal after storage.
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2010, 10:32:20 AM »
lvschant, you refer to using "the canister." Does this mean you put the salsa jar w/screw-on lid in a vacuum canister, applied vacuum to the canister, so that when you opened the canister up the salsa jar would seal and hold a vacuum? 

Offline LvsChant

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Re: Canning lids breaking seal after storage.
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2010, 05:23:21 PM »
Exactly! I do this all the time with glass jars and lids (for dried foods only). It is a great way to re-use instead of throwing away glass jars and also to keep the canning jars for use on things that are actually canned...

After vacuuming the canister (with the jar [with lid on] inside), removing the suction hose and then pushing the button on top to release suction, you'll see the lid center pop down nicely.

Offline LvsChant

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Re: Canning lids breaking seal after storage.
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2010, 06:00:50 PM »
See this thread for YouTube link showing how canister vacuum sealing is done:

http://thesurvivalpodcast.com/forum/index.php?topic=9420.msg103955#msg103955

Note: the original YouTube vid has been removed...
« Last Edit: July 13, 2011, 08:01:14 AM by LvsChant »

Offline katunk

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Re: Canning lids breaking seal after storage.
« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2010, 06:07:47 PM »
If the lids all came from the same box possibly bad lids (I have never seen this though). There is also the possibility that the tops of the jars were not cleaned properly but you said your friend has been canning for a while. I would think a better explanation would be hairline cracks or chips in the jars from rough handling letting the air slowly back in.
Regards

Offline LetMBee

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Re: Canning lids breaking seal after storage.
« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2010, 08:00:12 PM »
We canned 42 quarts of deer meat last fall.  I do ours and my Mom and Dads.  It was a small price to pay for getting their pressure cooker and about 6 dozen jars.  It is one of the best ways to preserve your deer I feel.  Especially because when it is done there seems to be no "gamey" taste in the meat.  I know the butcher in our local town and I get about a pound of beef fat from him every year.  I place about a 1/2 inch cube of it in the jar along with a teaspoon of salt.  I have been known to eat it cold just out of the jar with a fork.  On busy nights when my wife doesn't have a lot of time for food preparation an easy meal is to pour off the excess water, shred the stuff into a pan, add some BBQ sauce and warm it up.  That is one of my daughter's favorite meals. 
     If butchering chickens is something you do, I would encourage you to make some chicken broth.  We use the recipe from an old Ball Blue Book.  Once you have that stuff the store-bought version will barely pass as edible in your house.  My wife and I barely every have conflict, but I know that if I give that stuff away I am going to have a fight on my hands.   I found out the hard way....
     This year I think we will probably even can more deer than last year.  I hate having to worry about losing power and being out about 4 deer (one good reason for living in Indiana) if I lose power.  I don't have a generator, and have no short term plans of changing that.  It is a long term goal, but having a lot of food in jars that don't require electricity is what I am having to live with right now. 
     There are a lot of meals you can cook up in bulk and then just can them.  We did that last year and are planning on doing it again this year.  It is awesome when you can come home from a long days work, and in 10-15 minutes you can have a great tasting bowl of home cooked chili, or stew, and only have about 3 dishes to do.  You can find recipes on the internet or in the Blue Book.

Offline TwoBluesMama

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Re: Canning lids breaking seal after storage.
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2010, 12:20:38 PM »
We canned 42 quarts of deer meat last fall. 

I have been known to eat it cold just out of the jar with a fork.  On busy nights when my wife doesn't have a lot of time for food preparation an easy meal is to pour off the excess water, shred the stuff into a pan, add some BBQ sauce and warm it up.  That is one of my daughter's favorite meals. 
     

Awesome that you do this too!! - Great for if the SHTF - no worries as far as freezers and YES I too have eaten out of the jar.  And I agree with you about the chickens.  Thanks for the post.  TBM

Offline Roknrandy

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Re: Canning lids breaking seal after storage.
« Reply #21 on: July 14, 2011, 09:11:21 PM »
Great video!!  I guess I have to upgrade my camera now and do a few more