Author Topic: The George Floyd riots in Mpls  (Read 5831 times)

Offline Carver

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Re: The George Floyd riots in Mpls
« Reply #60 on: June 01, 2020, 05:35:29 PM »
I'm making an effort to see this from black-colored sunglasses and I wonder why us white folks are so outraged by this murder. Was our outrage over the blatant murder or was it because it exposed obvious racial intent as a motive to murder? We do not want to think that any white cop was unjustified in killing a black man. Did this white cop think he also could get away with it being there is a history of so many white cop/black victim incidents end up with the white cop exonerated? Does my tendency to believe he was psycho a way of excusing the possibility of the naturalism of racist murders in police confrontations between white cops and black men?

Offline surfivor

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Re: The George Floyd riots in Mpls
« Reply #61 on: June 01, 2020, 05:44:06 PM »
Replace mayor appointed police chiefs with directly elected sheriffs.

I agree, but it is interesting that if you search for "power of sheriffs", there's actually more bad press or propaganda against sherrifs than there is positive by quite a bit. All kinds of things like abuse of power, racists etc. No doubt the media and the liberal establishment doesn't like them

https://www.google.com/search?q=power+of+sheriffs&ei=TZHVXv2aFeWzytMPmP-YqAg&start=20&sa=N&ved=2ahUKEwi99YnD5OHpAhXlmXIEHZg_BoU4ChDw0wN6BAgMEEA&biw=1514&bih=696&dpr=1.25

Offline Carver

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Re: The George Floyd riots in Mpls
« Reply #62 on: June 01, 2020, 07:34:57 PM »
Concrete evidence of organized looting and pillaging:
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/its-setup-mysteriously-staged-bricks-appear-throughout-major-protest-cities
Organized looting:
https://www.foxnews.com/us/george-floyd-riots-looting-destroy
Quote
As riots continue to wreak havoc on cities across the country, officials have continued to point to "outside influencers," along with anarchists and opportunists, who have hijacked the otherwise peaceful demonstrations against police brutality following the death of an African-American man, George Floyd, in Minneapolis last weekend.

According to multiple U.S. intelligence sources, law-enforcement officials in various departments nationwide and analysts monitoring the activity, the playbook in every city is almost the same: the peaceful protests are organized, and a point place is designated for people to gather in the daylight hours.

But, as the night falls and thousands go home, the looting and discord are ignited by a fresh round of people camouflaged with dark clothing and masks, armed with spray paint for graffiti and sometimes homemade weapons, and their nefarious behavior continues well into the early hours.

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: The George Floyd riots in Mpls
« Reply #63 on: June 01, 2020, 09:19:00 PM »

Offline Carver

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Re: The George Floyd riots in Mpls
« Reply #64 on: June 01, 2020, 09:24:32 PM »
I like this:
Quote
Kristin Fisher @KristinFisher I almost can’t believe what I’m seeing. POTUS just walked out the front door of the White House and into Lafayette Square - the epicenter of the DC protests - to visit historic St. John’s Church, which was set on fire last night.

Offline Docwatmo

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Re: The George Floyd riots in Mpls
« Reply #65 on: June 02, 2020, 05:24:24 AM »
Absolutely.  The path forward seems pretty simple:

End qualified immunity for police officers.
Replace mayor appointed police chiefs with directly elected sheriffs.
Roll back Obama's militarization of police forces.
Wipe out Antifa.
End the war on drugs to reduce police force numbers and the harrassment that causes.
Encourage minorities to become well trained gun owners so they can protect their homes and businesses.

Again 1000% this ^^^^

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: The George Floyd riots in Mpls
« Reply #66 on: June 02, 2020, 05:52:38 AM »
It is spontaneous actions.  No one is organizing and bankrolling the violence.  It's not like one of Hollywood's top law firms, with deep ties to the democratic party, has its associates handing out incendiary devices to ANTIFA and then bailing them out when they get caught.   It's all spontaneous. And no way a sitting democratic member of a Brooklyn community board would burn down their own city.  That is silly talk

https://nypost.com/2020/06/01/molotov-cocktail-tossing-lawyers-tried-to-pass-out-explosives-cops/
Molotov cocktail-tossing lawyers tried to pass out firebombs to protesters: feds

The two attorneys busted for throwing a Molotov cocktail through a police car window during protests in Brooklyn early Saturday were trying to pass out the incendiary devices to demonstrators in the crowd, federal authorities said Monday.

Brooklyn community board member Colinford Mattis, 32, and his alleged accomplice, 31-year-old Urooj Rahman, were driving around in a tan minivan near a clash between police and demonstrators at the 88th Precinct stationhouse in Fort Greene, federal prosecutors for the Eastern District of New York said in a detention memo Monday.

A bystander snapped a photo of the pair in the car while they were allegedly trying to pass out the homemade explosive devices, according to the memo.

“Rahman attempted to distribute Molotov cocktails to the witness and others so that those individuals could likewise use the incendiary devices in furtherance of more destruction and violence,” the witness later told authorities.

“They knew their acts endangered the NYPD officers and protesters on the street, as well as their own futures, and the defendants were undeterred,” they wrote.
..
Mattis, a graduate of Princeton University and the New York University School of Law, is an associate at corporate Manhattan firm Pryor Cashman. Brooklyn Community Board 5 in East New York lists Mattis as one of its members.

Rahman is also registered as an attorney in New York state, who was admitted to the bar in June 2019 after graduating from Fordham University School of Law.

Offline Carver

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Re: The George Floyd riots in Mpls
« Reply #67 on: June 02, 2020, 07:49:03 AM »
Ultimately, this is the best way to handle civil unrest, rioting:
https://youtu.be/ur23lWUHJU0

Offline Docwatmo

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Re: The George Floyd riots in Mpls
« Reply #68 on: June 02, 2020, 08:07:00 AM »
Outstanding!!  And hopefully they are exercising their 2nd amendment rights to ensure their own safety should the terrorists decide to make an effort anyway.

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: The George Floyd riots in Mpls
« Reply #69 on: June 03, 2020, 08:10:21 AM »
Message from Pope Francis.

Dear brothers and sisters in the United States, I have witnessed with great concern the disturbing social unrest in your nation in these past days, following the tragic death of Mr George Floyd.

My friends, we cannot tolerate or turn a blind eye to racism and exclusion in any form and yet claim to defend the sacredness of every human life. At the same time, we have to recognize that “the violence of recent nights is self-destructive and self-defeating. Nothing is gained by violence and so much is lost”.

Today I join the Church in Saint Paul and Minneapolis, and in the entire United States, in praying for the repose of the soul of George Floyd and of all those others who have lost their lives as a result of the sin of racism. Let us pray for the consolation of their grieving families and friends and let us implore the national reconciliation and peace for which we yearn.

May Our Lady of Guadalupe, Mother of America, intercede for all those who work for peace and justice in your land and throughout the world. May God bless all of you and your families.

Offline David in MN

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Re: The George Floyd riots in Mpls
« Reply #70 on: June 03, 2020, 08:46:35 AM »
It's a strange time to live Minneapolis adjacent. Those of us in the burbs have 8 pm curfews so emergency crews can get to the riots where the Minneapolis mayor issued a "stand down" order. It's literally more wrong to get a haircut than to burn a Target. I can't go bowling but I can take a hammer to the windows of an Autozone.

I was heartened by the mayor of Saint Paul who lambasted rioters for destroying what little economy we have surviving COVID and how they were setting fire to minority owned businesses in stark opposition to their claimed goals. He, unlike the feckless mayor of Minneapolis who should be subject to some kind of medieval justice, is welcome at my house anytime for an iced tea or something stronger.

You might be surprised but we don't live here for the weather. Nor do we relish our high taxes. What keeps us here is the community and the knowledge that any Midwesterner is the salt of the earth. If we lose that I don't know what's left.

Offline Carver

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Re: The George Floyd riots in Mpls
« Reply #71 on: June 03, 2020, 09:06:43 AM »
Like the way the Covid-19 epidemic took everyone by surprise, likewise the universal and unanimous shock and condemnation of the murder of George Floyd was so swiftly and stealthily hijacked into a "get whitey" movement spearheaded by self-loathing young white liberals.

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: The George Floyd riots in Mpls
« Reply #72 on: June 03, 2020, 10:37:21 AM »
Uh oh.  Word on the street is Nancy Pelosi was furious at the.Pope's message and went into a tirade with staffers.  They tried to put the pressure on and reportedly the Vatican told her to stick it in her ear, but in a nice way. 

I've never seen Catholics so upset with the Democratic Party. On the other hand, the president placing a wreath at Saint John Paul II monument was extremely well received by the lay people, especially those of Polish descent in Chicago. The looting of Churches, Catholic bookstores, food banks, and homeless shelters as well as the abuse of the poor may haunt them for years to come.

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/amp/news/cathedrals-in-6-states-damaged-by-violent-protests-91111
Churches in 6 states damaged by violent protests

Catholic churches and cathedrals in several cities were among the buildings damaged in the protests and riots that occurred nationwide over the past week.

Church buildings in California, Minnesota, New York, Kentucky, Texas, and Colorado were attacked. Many of the defaced or damaged churches were cathedrals. The Cathedral Basilica of the Immaculate Conception in Denver sustained permanent damage.

Vandals repeatedly struck the Denver cathedral on multiple nights of the protests and riots over the weekend. The church building and rectory were spray painted with the slogans “Pedofiles” [sic], “God is dead,” “There is no God,” along with other anti-police, anarchist, and anti-religion phrases and symbols.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2020, 10:53:50 AM by iam4liberty »

Offline LvsChant

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Re: The George Floyd riots in Mpls
« Reply #73 on: June 03, 2020, 10:54:18 AM »
With the widespread nature of the looting and destruction, I'm reminded of the Katrina days in New Orleans.

Our little town (on the Westbank) was geographically separated from the city by bridges, so there was no easy way for potential looters to get there unless they went over a bridge or used boats.

They tried both and were turned back. The local sheriff and a few deputies remained behind when the majority of the populace evacuated in our town. He and his men determined who was there in terms of citizenry and deputized many of them to assist in keeping the town safe. One of our friends was deputized and ended up patrolling the canal in his flat-bottomed boat and turning many would-be looters back.

It's just a fact that the police and military do not have the manpower to keep an entire nation secure when this type of rampant lawlessness occurs. We have to take some of the responsibility to keep things in order on ourselves. I think the deputization of citizens is an excellent way to accomplish this, particularly in small towns. I'm sure some aspects of this could be applied to neighborhoods and business areas as well in larger towns. 

Our next door neighbor watched our particular street in a lawnchair with a glass of iced tea and a shotgun. No looting... no destroyed businesses... no one hurt.

Offline Carver

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Re: The George Floyd riots in Mpls
« Reply #74 on: June 03, 2020, 11:44:52 AM »
This is a very unique situation; liberals listen to and believe it when they hear that "white supremacists" are doing the rioting and feel morally justified in putting a bullet in their heads. White supremacists or ANTIFA or communists or whatever; I don't care what group is doing the rioting or who wants to get rid of them.

It is also very encouraging to see that everybody is recognizing the clear distinction between the groups rioters & looters and the peaceful protesters.

Offline David in MN

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Re: The George Floyd riots in Mpls
« Reply #75 on: June 03, 2020, 02:56:36 PM »
I don't understand the feigned racial anamace. First off, I find it dubious to claim that mild mannered Minnesota is awash in racists and 3 of the 4 officers involved aren't white. The mayor of Minneapolis is Jewish, the mayor of St. Paul is black, and the Minneapolis chief of police is a black man who sued the city over racial discrimination (years ago) and came up vowing to clean out city hall. If we really are dealing with a massive racist population we are really playing it close to the vest.

Also bear in mind the big employers in the state are massive international businesses. At my last corporate gig my team had a Pole, a Trinidadian, our manager was Moroccan, our director Egyptian, and my operations contact was Ethiopian. We're pretty open to people of all walks.

I'll confess freely there is a strain of racial politics that rears its ugly head when dealing with ethnic issues with the Hmong in Frogtown or the Somalis who have been isolated on the West Bank. But it's not so much that there has been person to person racism as much as the state relocating refugees in bad parts of the city with little hope to escape. I'm not  joking when I say a good chunk of our Somali population lives in a decrepit set of concrete buildings designed by a socialist and those kids have to hop over heroin needles to go to school. The stste should have had a better plan and integrated our refugees into our society but they did a horrible job and it's a stain on all of us.

But these are the exceptions. We don't live here because we like the weather and tax burden. It's that there is a giant chunk of flyover country in the middle of this land where the best people in the history of the world live. We're all 3 generations removed from the farm and in this state we joke about our "Minnesota Nice" and it's not really a joke. Outside our corrupt big cities you could do a lot worse than finding yourself in a small town in the Midwest. My grandparents' farmhouse didn't even have locks and dad tends to leave his keys in the car.

Now if we want to have a discussion about the Minneapolis police and their use of force, I'm game. Too many people have died because our police didn't control themselves and the situation. I'd like to see a change with a emphasis on community support rather than undercover "gotcha" police work and I think most of us who have been downtown would agree. And I don't think we're unique. Whether it's NYC politicians bragging that their police are one of the largest standing armies on earth or a Mesa Arizona cop who feels justified gunning down a half naked man with a rifle that had been engraved "You're Fucked" I do worry. I would like to see a policy change because the vast majority of people in this country are decent and letting bad cops run roughshod over the community poisons the well.

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: The George Floyd riots in Mpls
« Reply #76 on: June 03, 2020, 03:17:35 PM »
Are they purposely delaying his charges to keep the riots going?

Finally!  Not sure how this isn't second-degree.

They finslly changed the charges to 2nd degree which was the obvious level from the start.  There is zero doubt now that Keith Ellison slow rolled the propper charges to flame outrage and give rioters cover.  He only pulled the trigger because national guard was getting ready to hit his ANTIFA associates hard.  Expect the riots to greatly diminish starting tonight.

Offline Morning Sunshine

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Re: The George Floyd riots in Mpls
« Reply #77 on: June 03, 2020, 03:32:27 PM »
legal Insurrection has a good write up on what exactly has to be proven for a second degree murder charge to stick in MN.  Honestly, I do not see how it does.  But I am neither a lawyer nor do I play one on tv...

https://legalinsurrection.com/2020/06/minnesota-ag-keith-ellison-to-up-charge-in-george-floyd-case-to-2nd-degree-murder-also-charge-other-officers/

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: The George Floyd riots in Mpls
« Reply #78 on: June 03, 2020, 03:56:06 PM »
legal Insurrection has a good write up on what exactly has to be proven for a second degree murder charge to stick in MN.  Honestly, I do not see how it does.  But I am neither a lawyer nor do I play one on tv...

https://legalinsurrection.com/2020/06/minnesota-ag-keith-ellison-to-up-charge-in-george-floyd-case-to-2nd-degree-murder-also-charge-other-officers/

It's pretty straight forward.  There is no premeditation therefore 1st is out unless new evidence emerges otherwise.  This was obviously felony level assault so if death is unintentional it would be murder 2.  Not to mention desire to cause injury also makes it murder 2 even if assault not felony.  And if intentional, which could be argued given other police officer suggested he change position but declined to do so, that too would be murder 2.  Murder 3 makes no sense.

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: The George Floyd riots in Mpls
« Reply #79 on: June 03, 2020, 11:29:53 PM »
Mad Dog Mattis has spoken.

Offline Greekman

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Re: The George Floyd riots in Mpls
« Reply #80 on: June 04, 2020, 01:04:56 AM »
if you haven't seen this yet, take note at what the protestors say to the police at the end.... ;D ;D ;D ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UG_VoTwdR0

Offline Morning Sunshine

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Re: The George Floyd riots in Mpls
« Reply #81 on: June 04, 2020, 05:34:33 AM »
if you haven't seen this yet, take note at what the protestors say to the police at the end.... ;D ;D ;D ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UG_VoTwdR0

I do not know if this is the video you meant to link?  I saw no police, and I could not understand what the protestor said :(

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: The George Floyd riots in Mpls
« Reply #82 on: June 04, 2020, 06:34:05 AM »
Mad Dog Mattis has spoken.

LOL. He is still fuming from getting pushed into retirement because his entire staff said they had no confidence in him.  It's pretty bad when you are forced to resign by presidents of both parties.

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: The George Floyd riots in Mpls
« Reply #83 on: June 04, 2020, 08:35:41 AM »
Broad agreement across the political spectrum that military should assist police if riots continue.  Other polls show even higher support for use of just national guards (around 75%).

https://www.newsweek.com/majority-americans-support-calling-military-assist-police-during-nationwide-unrest-polling-shows-1508210
Majority of Americans Support Calling in Military to Assist Police During Nationwide Unrest, Polling Shows

New polling shows that a majority of Americans, including nearly half of Democrats, support calling in the military to assist local police in handling the nationwide unrest that has accompanied peaceful demonstrations commemorating George Floyd, who died last week in Minneapolis police custody.

Morning Consult conducted the survey from May 31 to June 1 and found that 58 percent of voters support using the military to deal with protests and demonstrations across the country, alongside the police. Just 30 percent of respondents said they'd oppose such a measure.

Furthermore, 33 percent (one-third) of respondents said they "strongly" support sending in the military, while an additional 25 percent (one-quarter) said they "somewhat" support the move. Only 19 percent of voters "strongly" opposed deploying the military, while 11 percent "somewhat" opposed it. The survey's margin of error was plus or minus 2 percentage points

Offline bigbear

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Re: The George Floyd riots in Mpls
« Reply #84 on: June 04, 2020, 09:37:38 AM »
https://www.npr.org/2020/06/04/869255813/former-defense-secretary-mattis-issues-stunning-rebuke-of-trump

Mattis joins Esper in stance against using the military in this 'battlespace.'  He points to the 'photo-op' with Trump carrying a Bible to St. John's as "an abuse of executive authority." 

Pres. Trump should not invoke the Insurrection Act based on a poll.  He should remain true to the state government request precedent.


Offline David in MN

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Re: The George Floyd riots in Mpls
« Reply #85 on: June 04, 2020, 10:49:27 AM »
How about the city's lackluster response waiting to charge the 3 officers who stood by? Suppose I went downtown and an officer decided to shackle me to a tree at gunpoint and carve his name in my flesh? Would the other officers just watch and the city drag its feet in dealing with them? That didn't help anybody.

Let's be honest about how tone deaf Minneapolis government is. You had an officer act in a very cruel manner that may have contributed to a man's death over $20 not for a brief second in the heat of passion but for 8 long minutes in full view of other officers who did nothing to help and civilian witnesses who begged for a more peaceful resolution.

Then the city took over when they took their time recognizing the other officers were accessories and the mayor (who is unqualified to mop the floor in my opinion) could only speak in large platitudes about investigations. The only voice of sanity in the state was the mayor of St. Paul who heroically praised peaceful protest while decrying looting and rioting.

Well now we'll overcorrect the other way. City Hall is talking about disbanding the police. The police are having to provide provide convoy service to people leaving Children's Hospital because the rioters know their real enemy: cancer kids. And of course being a worthless leader the mayor did what all state politicians seem to be doing these days and threw his hands in the air and demanded big daddy Trump come fix everything.

I've never liked Minneapolis politics but I didn't think it was this bad. If they had tried to stir tension and destroy the city it would have looked the same.

Offline Carver

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Re: The George Floyd riots in Mpls
« Reply #86 on: June 04, 2020, 11:40:58 AM »
How about the city's lackluster response waiting to charge the 3 officers who stood by? Suppose I went downtown and an officer decided to shackle me to a tree at gunpoint and carve his name in my flesh? Would the other officers just watch and the city drag its feet in dealing with them? That didn't help anybody.
An explanation I heard was that if they went for murder #1 and couldn't prove intent they would get off and then there would really be hell to pay. Perhaps that is why they initially avoided M#2?

Did the cops in this incident get tested for drugs or alcohol following this?

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: The George Floyd riots in Mpls
« Reply #87 on: June 04, 2020, 12:44:23 PM »
An explanation I heard was that if they went for murder #1 and couldn't prove intent they would get off and then there would really be hell to pay. Perhaps that is why they initially avoided M#2?

Murder 1 was never officially on the table.  That requires proof of premenditation.not just intent.  So unless there is some big revelation about their past history, that is not an option.  Ellison would never go down that path anyway as it would suggest race wasnt a factor.  Murder 2 doesnt require intent.  If there was intent and no premeditation then it is definitely murder 2.  But even if there wasnt intent it would still be murder 2 because the underlying actions were felonious, if nothing else felony assault.  Murder 3 made no sense at all as that is just about broad, impersonal acts that lead to death such as distributing tainted drugs.  He wasnt blindly and recklessly firing a gun like in the Mohamed Noor case.  His actions against Floyd were deliberate and targetted.

Ellison admitted on national telivision yesterday that he was responsible for the delays and undercharging.  The question is only as to why he did it. A highly popular view is that it was done for political reasons.  One, they wanted to give cover to Amy Klobuchar, in fact she was tweeting out the change in charges prior to Ellison's release so we know they have been colluding.   Two, Ellison wanted to use this case for his political advancement and his activist causes. Best way to do that was to delay charges to get protests going.  It was always going to be Murder 2 for Chauvin and acessory for the others.  The next step will be a pleading down by the other officers in exchange for making statements about systemic issues within the department.


Offline Greekman

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Re: The George Floyd riots in Mpls
« Reply #88 on: June 04, 2020, 01:09:51 PM »
I do not know if this is the video you meant to link?  I saw no police, and I could not understand what the protestor said :(

you are correct...I first saw the vid in FB, searched for it in YT and linked it, but did not go to trouble to see t again.
In the original there are police on the end of the wall, just observing.
And when a protestor pass them by, he says "thank you"! ;D ;D ;D

FB link
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=2326292011000786

Offline Mr. Bill

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Re: The George Floyd riots in Mpls
« Reply #89 on: June 04, 2020, 01:42:07 PM »
Mattis is held in very high regard by all the veterans I know personally.  I think his opinion is worthy of more than a "LOL".

Currently, the unrest is at the low end of what I remember from the Vietnam and Civil Rights era protests.  If it's true that 58% of the public supports putting the Army on our city streets (which I doubt), why could this be?  Any chance it's because the media are saturating us with images and stories of violence 24/7?  Gosh, I can't think of any other recent events that got blown all out of proportion due to media hype.

There's a threat that the violence may start to die down, but if Trump plays his cards right, we could probably have martial law or even a civil war by November.

Meanwhile, let's get those soldiers out there enforcing the stay-at-home orders.  Or do I mean curfews?  I'm having trouble remembering which is which.