MSB member benefit - would cost little, be worth a lot.

[MrBrazil]

Jack and others,
I am a long time listener and recently opted for the MSB. It has proven to be a smart decision value-wise just as the offer stands, but I have a suggestion that could turbo charge the value of this brotherhood to a new level.

Those of us that regularly listen to TSP are probably in the top 1% of people prepared for surviving and thriving in the days ahead. We are self-vetted for our interest in self-sufficiency, economic, political, and threat awareness from all the possible vulnerabilities.

More select than even TSP listeners, is the MSB. We have shown even more interest, committment, generousity, and consideration by contributing for the great work Jack does.  Generally speaking, these are the kind of people I would probably want as team members, or contacts for a help brigade.

The idea is for a network of people that agree to be part of a help brigade should one of us be in need while traveling, or even locally. Rather than viewing this as a burden, I look at all of us as resources because of the variety of skills, talents, interests, supplies, and common interests we share. 

Many of us have rural property, such as I have, which will be difficult to defend or simply guard, when the financial breakdown gets into full bloom and the shelves go empty. I would welcome fellow MSB people at my retreat - within reason - because MSB'ers are going to be more prepared, more ready, more committed and more of a contributor, than almost anyone I know locally.

The format could work like a simple database, with a basic checklist and understanding of what each of us can offer.
We can figure out details. Basically, it would be almost like a AAA card but on a broader level, and possibly when AAA is no longer available.

Curious to hear if this has already been suggested or implemented, and what everyone thinks of the concepts.

In Liberty,
MrBrazil

[madcap1one]

I love your idea in general!!!

We are working hard here to assemble a get together for Region 4 in a few weeks, and it may prove a nexus point from which to begin building local support organizations - i.e. when I meet 12 people from the region and 3 are along lines of evac to my BOL, I may be able to cache with them.

AlphaRubicon is similarly structured on the lines of a mutual aid society.

Keep this thread alive and see what we can draw up from it!

[MrBrazil]

madcap1one,
I knew this would be in the works in some form. Glad you are supportive and pursuing the concept.

While I look forward to personally meeting up with many of the members at these regional gatherings, some of us may be more comfortable keeping ourselves on the QT, until we are needed by a fellow MSB`er.
With an agreement drawn up with options for level of availabilty and support (I.E. - can offer lodging or not whether it is camping or hard structure, can offer repair or medical treatment, skills, supplies etc.) Depends on the comfort level of each of us about sharing this info. Unlike helping a random person in need, we would all know or expect a fellow MSB'er to have skills and even be a great asset if there is a major regional or society wide disruption, which I fully expect.

Look at what just happened in Austin with the plane crash. The gov't is likely to overreact in a big way, and we are the target.

More suggestions on the format?

[The Infidel]

Sounds like an awsome idea

[MrBrazil]

Ok then! I will take two affirmatives from MSB'ers as enough support for the idea to flesh in the details a bit.
Going to grab a workout and then
1. Fire out a format that we can begin with for details about a help situation and agreement of what would be offered,
2. Whether this would be an internal db within TSP forum, or separate site.
3. Means of requesting help, and means of responding and what levels that would involve.
4. System for getting people signed up and involved in it.
5. Getting Jack on board about it - probably first thing - and seeing if he wants to consider that as part of the MSB offering or just a self-selected thing.

All the above is open to change. Not going to wait for orders, and going ahead with it.

Separately we fall, together we stand.
-MrBrazil

[Docwatmo]

I agree also.  This is a great idea. (There is a similar military network like this made up of ex military, but the name of it escapes me).  Something like "Vets Helping Vets" or so. 

Think of it as AAA for Preppers

Anything I can do in my paltry and rapidly shrinking free time just ask.

Doc

[MrBrazil]

MSB Network

First Draft

Name - MSB Network

Purpose - Provide a nationwide and/or international network of prepared individuals ready and capable of supporting each other during times of a) dislocation, b) while traveling and requiring assistance, or c) upon necessity of manning retreats should there be a society wide disruption requiring such measures.

Membership - Available to members of the MSB only. Voluntary association and voluntary level of contribution. The more a member can offer with either effort, skill, or supplies, the more likely they are to receive help when needed, or an offer for joining a retreat if such a need arises.
Basic qualifications required -
-Skilled at arms. Both pistol and rifle. Nothing extreme, safety rules understood, carries, and can handle iron sights, scopes, and is good out to 300 mtrs. If this not the case, then a primary purpose of this network would be invalid. When we help each other, we want to be helping and meeting someone who can also be support for security, which will be an ongoing need.
-Basic first aid familiarity
-Navigation skills
-IDEAS???

Format - Either set-up a secure area on the forum, with Jack's approval, or set-up a link to another site - again with Jack's approval, where the list and data can be kept.

Info required -
-Username/Handle, real name not required
-General zipcode or region where support can be offered
-Support services offered i.e. towing (for those of use with trailers), temporary housing incl. camping, food assistance during travel i.e. 3 day food supply, travel assistance through dangerous areas (i.e. armed and willing), knowledge of area only (for those willing to only give advice), communications (ham operators, satellite internet, etc.) medical skills, repair or fabricating skills and tools, hunting assistance, etc. I have left off many skills and services which we can all fill in as we go.
-Method of contact. Email, cell, ham call signal, frequent location visited, signal if in area, frequency used on CB radios, etc.
-When online or available to help and when not available, if known in advance.

Method of assistance-
-Can be direct. I show up and help out as needed.
-Can be indirect. I communicate, figure out what is needed, and arrange a drop. No one meets face to face.
-Can be temporary. One of us is broken down and needs brief assistance, repair, maybe some food, to be on our way.
-Can be long term. Broad collapse, broad dislocation - as has been predicted by several where multiple cities experience incidents - and many of us need to leave our residences and can become part of retreats set up by others who are part of MSBN. This is more likely now than most of us realize. If never needed, no harm done. If needed, it can mean the difference between life and death.

Rather than go on and cover all possibilities, I think the above conveys the concept and some of the basics. What say all of you?

[Docwatmo]

Outstanding, very well thought out already.

Perhaps add a "priority" level or something, kind of like the defcon levels.  Someones ability to assist may be based on what the current local or community status is. 

Other than that, keep on keepin on, looks great.

Doc

[Docwatmo]

Just had a quick thought.  What about Opsec?  Should there be some kind of vetting process other than just MSB membership.  The potential for someone to sign up, pay 50 bucks and have access to this kind of information could be a potential hazard.

Perhaps a single person or group of people would handle the inquiries to the dataset?

Just thinking out loud again. 

[MrBrazil]

Thanks for the appreciation Doc!

The priority level idea appeals to me to. For instance, right now all services may be available and there is no real need to involve the MSBN for an car breakdown, etc. Then when the priority level shifts - such as in Katrina, the winter that hit much of the U.S., etc, there could be a priority level for activating or relying on MSBN. Is this what you are thinking?

I also agree about vetting people for claimed skills, and motivations. Have to ponder it some, but we can figure out how to do that without making it a clique, or too selective and not useful. The more open the better because we want coverage.

Input on skills needed?

[Sister Wolf]

I like the fact that you are asking for username (not real name), as well as general area (even something like "southern california" or "northern west virginia" would work), and a way to contact a person (even if it's by PM here on the forum).

That works very well for opsec.  Anybody who has participated in the TSP map has already participated in a beta version of this, except without skills or any other info listed.

I was reeeally leery of this idea when I first read it, but after your clarifications regarding how private a member can be, and what-not, I think this is a fantastic idea, and will support it 100%.

I'm thinking that a mod can handle the emails (maybe we'll set up an email account specifically for this?) and add in the information that you're talking about, and then email a PDF to Jack to upload as an MSB download.

Keeping people's names out of it, I think cell phone numbers should also be kept out of it, as well as home addresses.  Ham call signs are okay, because they can list a PO box for that address, but if info is available on the internet, it can be printed out and lost, and picked up by somebody who isn't MSB and isn't an okay human to deal with.

If Jack thinks that this is a sound idea, we'll ask for volunteers in the mod squad to take care of this task.  Does that sound okay with you, Mr. Brazil?

[MrBrazil]

My responses in italics

I like the fact that you are asking for username (not real name), as well as general area (even something like "southern california" or "northern west virginia" would work), and a way to contact a person (even if it's by PM here on the forum).

That works very well for opsec.  Anybody who has participated in the TSP map has already participated in a beta version of this, except without skills or any other info listed.
The OPSEC concern is shared by all of us I believe so breaking anonymity is entirely an independent decision.

I was reeeally leery of this idea when I first read it, but after your clarifications regarding how private a member can be, and what-not, I think this is a fantastic idea, and will support it 100%.
Very glad to hear that considering your seniority here.

I'm thinking that a mod can handle the emails (maybe we'll set up an email account specifically for this?) and add in the information that you're talking about, and then email a PDF to Jack to upload as an MSB download.
While probably a good first step, another possibility is integrating - nothing more than a link or separate page required - an automatic form that can be controlled, updated, deleted, or added to much like a profile on any forum can. The chief advantage is that the automatic system will be fluid, controlled by the individual network preppers, does not burden Jack, and can be more accurate and up to date. Ning is a good example of this type of system. I used it to start a motorcycle group. Other systems will work as well if anyone has suggestions.

Keeping people's names out of it, I think cell phone numbers should also be kept out of it, as well as home addresses.  Ham call signs are okay, because they can list a PO box for that address, but if info is available on the internet, it can be printed out and lost, and picked up by somebody who isn't MSB and isn't an okay human to deal with.
Can completely understand this concern and agree. If someone wants to include a phone number or any additional information - that can be their option. Minimal info required. If each person can set their communication preference, and change it per conditions, then we can each balance OPSEC with the need for support or being easier to contact. Individual choice, just how we like it.
If Jack thinks that this is a sound idea, we'll ask for volunteers in the mod squad to take care of this task.  Does that sound okay with you, Mr. Brazil?
Sister Wolf, it sounds grand to me. Am ready to run the ball as needed. I am going to be the first in the water and fill out the form I setup, and MSBN will be born.

[Sister Wolf]

Oh duh, I love the idea of a profile that a member can update as necessary.  That's a much better idea than a PDF.

  Don't know how we could implement it, but love it.

[MrBrazil]

Sister Wolf, you are wiser than you may realize. Because of the nature of our MSBN, a hard copy of the list, or PDF that can be carried on a cell phone, or USB data device, etc. would be key for each prepper to have. In fact, it may be the decoder ring on how we recognize each other or confirm each other as a member of the group.

As for implementing it - here is my silver dollar`s worth -
1. A person joins MSB and Jack sends out the Thank you email along with the passwords. If Jack is open to this idea, he can include a brief notice about the MSBN along with a link. Internal to his site, or external, his call.
2. Potential MSBN`er accesses the site - either Ning based, or something I can put together on any domain, or Jack`s if he sets up a subdomain. The offer and responsibilities and qualifications are explained.
3. Person opts for MSBN membership and initiates the process by A. entering information as described in my previous post, B. Submitting some form of qualification material. Wide open for debate here - could be video with local newspaper in image of shooting at a range, or rifle shooting, etc. Not a sticking point, more of a follow-up to Doc's suggestion. C. Moderators then return either a Y or N with brief check off explanation as to reason. Our goal is as large a group of prepped people as possible. We are not after exclusivity, nor open inclusivity. We want a meritocracy - sort of like Confucian China.
4. Upon acceptance, new MSBN prepper can search the database, print out the MSBN list or download the basic info. They can also update their own profile.
5. This is not to be another forum. Lean and dedicated to its single purpose as a support network.

More suggestions anyone?

[teton traveler]

Something that can go with this, or be done separately kind of like you mentioned would be things like rifle and pistol qualifications. eg. showing a certain level of firearms proficiency to be a member of the "TSP Rifle Brigade" or something like that.  This could also be done with other skills. You could also have something like the "1st Class Prepper Brigade" or whatever you would want to call it where people who have the documentation package, basic food supply (eg. 30 days or whatever), BOB, etc.. (the basics) could be a part of. They could be used as general goals to help people at least get the basics covered and then have the distinction of being part of the "TSP Rifle Brigade". Who knows.
Just some thoughts.

[Sister Wolf]

Not thinking that a PDF is a good idea.  Just sayin'.

[PaCoTx]

I like the idea and concerns about OPSEC.  What about having a pre agreed to X+ encoding as Jack describes for encrypting bank accounts on bug out docs?

Also,  I would be traveling with a family and am the only one that would qualify as being proficient with arms.  How would the MSBN deal with these situations?

I would not plan on, nor expect to be welcomed with open arms if we couldn't pull our weight.  Likewise, we would welcome, within reason, well stocked and prepared families at our BOL in a SHTF condition.  There may not be room to permanently house them, but it would be more secure than a campground.  Having a few such safehouses as waypoints to a distant BOL would certainly make long journeys easier and safer.

[Docwatmo]

I like the idea of a tiered qualification scheme (Prepper 1st class, 2nd class, etc),  Each meeting specific requirements,  This would not only ensure that qualifications and resources are on par with needs, but also (particularly for us early preppers) help us set and meet goals to reach each tier.  Kind of an incentive and having something laid out would help us to figure out what we still need to do.

[MrBrazil]

Great to see we are all on essentially the same page - just as I had expected. 

A couple of important questions came up -
1. What about other friends or family members that will travel with us but are not going to be qualified or an MSBN?
In my opinion, the MSBN`er (henceforth shortened to MN) is there to assist, or lodge, etc. the MN and can decide whether to help out the rest. My guess is that in practice, whoever travels with an MN gets taken care of. I know I would want to be treated that way, and will plan to assist others that way. An MN is much more likely to assess who can and cannot travel with them on an operational basis - along with family commitments - and any assisting MN will benefit from these judgements. If it is a van load or bus load of tag-a-longs, the assisting MN can simply restrict assistance to the MN needing it and they have completely fulfilled their role. Anything beyond helping an MN is up to the people involved.
2. Grades of qualifications - Rifleman Levels, gardening knowledge, medical training, etc. I think this is a wonderful idea, after a basic level has been met and a person is accepted as an MN.  A basic skills and competency requirement in a few key areas once proven would be all that is needed to be allowed into the MN. From that point forward, skills advancement would be indicated by additional test or qualifications achieved. I love the idea. We can build a ladder to climb of series of prep skills so that each of us knows what a particular MN offers and can assist with. Aside from being practical for determining who is best able to assist in a particular situation, qualification tests will keep us all sharp, motivated, and learning. What's not to like about that?

Getting blunt here, for my retreat, I value the following skills-
1. Skill at arms. I have 40 acres and can see a time for round-the-clock guarding of my cattle, garden, etc. Foremost is knowing that a person who has owned guns for a long time and shot them has done so safely - supposedly - so they understand the four rules intrinsically. While this can be taught relatively quickly, I would prefer to know before hand that the MN is capable of hitting the coyote attacking my dog, rather than my dog when the time comes. Or the bandit for that matter.
2. Physically fit enough to work on a farm. Moving lumber, hay, digging, gardening, etc. This does not mean 8% body fat, but neither will 20%+ body fat work too well. Someone capable of assisting in long days if needed.
3. Has skills that we preppers talk about all the time - communications, alternative energy expertise, gardening, medical, fabricating, food storage and prep, auto repair, etc.
4. Can meet their own needs for a while - food wise. This depends on the situation they find themselves in. A slow slide into a currency crisis and food shortages means we have plenty of time for storing 3 months - 12 months + of food for every member of our clan. The L.A. riots could have sent preppers out of Dodge with only a 72 hour kit (two of my friends were in exactly that situation during the riots). Both situations are fine. On the flip side, a family that shows up with nothing during a currency crisis, and this is more difficult to accept. We probably all agree on this. QED.
5. Non proselytizing. We are all entitled to our individual beliefs. No one else`s business what we believe, or if we believe. Some may not want to be with anyone except of their faith. More power to them. I am personally ok with almost anyone`s faith or lack of, so long as they are not pushing their belief on others or treating them with disrespect. The forum rules address this and I am just mentioning per my own preferences for my retreat.

Our MN can become an important part of our planning and development as self-reliant individuals. Every now and then even the sharpest cowboy needs a posse to ride to the rescue...the MN will be our posse.

[jpommer]

In the motorcycle adventure touring circles, most riders (particularly BMW riders) carry a copy of The Anonymous Book, published every year by BMW Owners Association. It's a pocket-sized book of phone numbers sorted by region. If a rider gets into trouble and needs tools or parts or what have you, he can pick a number out of the book and get a fellow touring rider on the phone that is committed to answering such a call for help.

Granted, what we're talking about should be approached with a bit more caution considering what we all have to lose and the circumstances under which you might get that call, but there may be some things to be learned there.

[The Infidel]

Still think this is a great idea. Built from the ground up, possibly in the open format of this forum, and more likely than not, having input from interested members, I think the risk would be very small.

[MrBrazil]

jpommer,
You are right on the money. The adventure motorcycle world has exactly the same idea! As an adventure rider - toured on almost every continent - not much of an ice rider! - I have benefited by this system more times than I can count and have been happy to help others in need. This MN idea can work, and work well. All we need is the right system for organizing info, the right basic entrance requirements, a common understanding, and then this bird will fly.
Since there is potential for long term support and more danger plus responsibility involved, we are only differentiated by having requirements for acceptance. Adventure riders, once they set out, are in the club. An potential MN must be qualified first, then join/be accepted into the MN before they set out.

[madcap1one]

I think we should have identifying tattoos - you know with an MN in the middle surrounded by daisies or petunias.

Ok - too much caffeine this AM...

I am liking where this is going.

It seems to me that there needs to be a cross reference of skillsets and geography, as well as prioritization. Yes, Katrina hit those folks hard, but was localized. Even for example a Level 1 (low level, for lack of better definition) in an adjacent geography would be more than enough to assist a Level 4 from New Orleans who just needed a safe place to ride out the storm with no special needs other than shelter with clean sheets and a shower, and not paying for a hotel room.

However, if TSHTF and a Level 2 from New Orleans wanted a place to go in Memphis and the Level 4 there didnt see a use for those skills that were not all that valuable... Well, you get the idea.

So - ultimately, it all boils down to willingness to help on the part of the "rescuer."

I hate to send us off on a tangent, but the one other similar model I am aware of, is the aforementioned AlphaRubicon. Their model is one of recruitment and vetting. It is built on a culture of "fraternity" (not that it is all male, but in the sense of a brotherhood. They are honor bound to assist one another. The call goes out, if at all possible, everyone else responds. Of course, this has only been tested in small scale disaster.

How then do we determine commitment and obligation (self imposed?)

[Mr. Bill]

This is going to sound really unfriendly and paranoid.  I apologize for that.  But...

MrBrazil, seeing as how your first post on TSP Forum was less than 24 hours ago, and none of us really know you, can you give us some reason to trust you?

I am not comfortable at all at the moment.

[The Infidel]

In defense of mr brazil, I too am very new to posting on this forum . However I did poke around on here for months before my first post. Don't want to seem to brazen here but the give me a reason to trust you comment may have been a little to much. I do understand your concerns, but overall I think it's a great idea. Maybe it would help to just kick back and see how this thing gets put together instead of calling out a fellow prepper on a trust issue because he don't meet your required post count to be trustworthy. This is not meant to offend you or start an arguement, it's just my opinion.

[Mr. Bill]

...Don't want to seem to brazen here but the give me a reason to trust you comment may have been a little to much. ...

Yeah, I know.  Sorry.  My gut feeling is that he's a good guy who is sincere about trying to get a useful project going.

I'm just not comfortable going with my gut feeling alone, in the current political environment.

[ModernSurvival]

Let me say this,

MSB or TSP will never EVER under any circumstances make available to anyone a list with contact information much less physical address of any of our members/listeners/supporters to ANYONE EVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES period, the end as in NEVER.  

People can choose to reach out and form independent networks, trade contact information etc.  That said nothing approaching a "roster" will ever have official TSP endorsement.

No disrespect to the original poster but bad idea and in no way will I ever sanction this, EVER.  

Folks reach out yes, form real world relationships beyond the forum etc.  But stick to what most people do, meet in pubic locations first, form a deeper trust and go from there.  

TSP is not a dating site, it is not for creating lists, God have mercy on any individual that makes a list of TSPers with out their permission if I find them.  With some of the situations we discuss here trust is earned by more then a forum or MSB membership.

TSP affiliation is only a first level of vetting anyone, use your judgment, build real relationships but don't ever give out personal information just because TSP is a common interest.  If you read my email for a day you would be shocked at how some of our listeners are "mentally defective" and with some of them there is no softer/nicer way to put it.  

Topic Locked as this is NOT open to discussion.