Armory, Self Defense, And EDC > Firearm Self Defense

John Farnam: Personal readiness with a running gun

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Mortblanc:

--- Quote from: Endurance on October 23, 2015, 10:00:36 AM ---So other than abduction, where being 450 pounds might be to your advantage, where do you see less fitness as a benefit? 

While I'm far from the special forces warrior who can run 50 miles with a 70 pound pack in 10 hours, it just seems that better fitness, the best training we can afford and have the time for, and the best mental preparedness we can have, the better our individual chances for survival.

--- End quote ---

But you guys are "training" for full scale urban warfare with running gun fights, apparently against organized combat troops.  That is far from the 2.5 round 3 second carjacking scenario which is much more likely in today's world.

How much "training" do you need to know that when the bad guy yanks your car door open you shoot him, or if he is in your kitchen at 3am you drop him like a bucket of rocks?

You guys are really overboard with this "training" thing.  Do you get regular driving instruction also?  Why Not? You spend more time in your car than in combat.  Are you enrolled in medical school?  You know you are going to eventually get sick!  Same rationale.

Fitness is a relative term and always has been.  A "fit" 70 year old with two knee replacements and a pacemaker operating his heart can pop a cap in your butt as well as a "fit" 30 year old, that is why we carry the guns.  What minimum level of fitness do you require to justify remaining alive?  Does one need to pass the combat fitness course to deserve their next breath?

I am 65 and have had two heart attacks and three back surgeries, one of my neighbors is 70 and suffers from COPD, another neighbor is fighting cancer.  We have all been alive a long time, some of us have fought wars, we are still here and we aren't giving up because we got old or sick.   We are not going to pass you PT test and we don't care!

And I am not paying my hard earned money to some wannabe who claims to be a "trainer", whatever that is, who was not born until I came home from my third war. 

Farman is more concerned about the folks showing up with malfunctioning firearms than anything else and that should be a concern.  All these people showing up for their "tactical training" and it is obvious they have never had the weapon on a range for a simple test firing.  I have seen the same thing many times at qualification classes for CCW.  People buy the latest zip-bang auto-pistol, stick it in their pocket and don't know if it will shoot or not. 

So what is his training advice?  Go out and shoot your gun and see if it works!

 

Carl:
My revolver has never had a misfeed.  :)

bdhutier:

--- Quote from: Mortblanc on October 23, 2015, 08:16:28 PM ---But you guys are "training" for full scale urban warfare with running gun fights, apparently against organized combat troops.  That is far from the 2.5 round 3 second carjacking scenario which is much more likely in today's world.

How much "training" do you need to know that when the bad guy yanks your car door open you shoot him, or if he is in your kitchen at 3am you drop him like a bucket of rocks?

You guys are really overboard with this "training" thing.  Do you get regular driving instruction also?  Why Not? You spend more time in your car than in combat.  Are you enrolled in medical school?  You know you are going to eventually get sick!  Same rationale.

Fitness is a relative term and always has been.  A "fit" 70 year old with two knee replacements and a pacemaker operating his heart can pop a cap in your butt as well as a "fit" 30 year old, that is why we carry the guns.  What minimum level of fitness do you require to justify remaining alive?  Does one need to pass the combat fitness course to deserve their next breath?

I am 65 and have had two heart attacks and three back surgeries, one of my neighbors is 70 and suffers from COPD, another neighbor is fighting cancer.  We have all been alive a long time, some of us have fought wars, we are still here and we aren't giving up because we got old or sick.   We are not going to pass you PT test and we don't care!

And I am not paying my hard earned money to some wannabe who claims to be a "trainer", whatever that is, who was not born until I came home from my third war. 

Farman is more concerned about the folks showing up with malfunctioning firearms than anything else and that should be a concern.  All these people showing up for their "tactical training" and it is obvious they have never had the weapon on a range for a simple test firing.  I have seen the same thing many times at qualification classes for CCW.  People buy the latest zip-bang auto-pistol, stick it in their pocket and don't know if it will shoot or not. 

So what is his training advice?  Go out and shoot your gun and see if it works!

--- End quote ---

Wow, Mortblanc...

The vast majority of us who seek out and participate in training opportunities are not training for urban warfare.  We train for real-world situations, based on documented incidents and science. 

You asked, "How much 'training' do you need to know that when the bad guy yanks your car door open you shoot him..."  OK, how much have you practiced drawing your pistol - in your normal carry configuration - from a seated position with a seat belt on?  I'd guess never... Not so easy, and if you try to pull that off without training/practice, "A "fit" 70 year old with two knee replacements and a pacemaker operating his heart [who] can pop a cap in your butt as well as a "fit" 30 year old" has a pretty good chance of dying in the street because he doesn't know what he's doing, has never tried, and never learned from it.

No one's talking about running around ripped like a SEAL the rest of your life, but I do think it's a no-brainer to at least TRY not to be the 450lb guy trying to take cover in a restaurant who takes three minutes to get up off the floor, or egress the store with a quickness but barely fits through the isles.  Maybe during your deadly force encounter you are going to blast the bad guy to smithereens, and just stand there with a cigar like Clint Eastwood.  You're not going to try to run for cover in case the bad guy's only on the ground and not actually incapacitated.  After all, we all know pistol rounds are one-shot killers (like in the movies), and there's absolutely no need to continue assessing the bad guy, and especially no need to do it from a position of relative safety!!

Or maybe Endurance never asked you or anyone to pass any PT tests, he simply stated the fitter the better...

Perhaps I just don't have enough credibility for you.  After all, I'm only around 40, and we didn't have three wars to fight during my 20 years in the military.  Oh, and I'm sure my medium sized city police department (where I'm a firearms instructor) doesn't see enough hard action to satisfy your requirements.  So yeah, you have me dead to rights on your little scoreboard.  But I don't care... I'll continue to train, practice, try to come up with unique scenarios, and stay as healthy as I can. 

Some day, God forbid, a life may depend on it.

Mortblanc:
OK you say the majority are training for a "real world situation",

Not prepping for urban combat,

Then you throw a 20 year military career and being a cop, specifically a firearms instructor, into the mix.

Training for urban combat is your whole life, and you do not even see it.





 

endurance:
Mort, have you ever taken one of John's classes?  There's more time spent on running a trigger and safety than anything tactical.

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