Armory, Self Defense, And EDC > Firearm Self Defense

Video of hold up, what would you do?

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Very poor threat analysis on the bad-guy's part, lol!  Yeah, with him spending so much time looking/facing away and him not ready to react, I'd have dropped a magazine in him. 

"Well Ranger Smith, the subject was clearly agitated, and possibly high.  With his apparently heightened emotional state, I determined I had no other option but to engage the subject to prevent what appeared to be a budding active shooter incident."

-- No-bill --

David in MN:
I'd walk out the door.

Sorry. I'd like to claim otherwise but in MN if I gunned down a criminal I'd for sure get arrested, spend the night in jail, and be looking at a 50/50 chance of being prosecuted. If prosecuted I couldn't claim I lacked the ability to escape as defined by the state and viola! I'm a murderer. Life in prison. And a civil suit.

I don't know how many people in "gun unfriendly" states are on this forum (if you do you're one of the good guys) but I, like many, have chosen my estate and freedom over strangers' lives. I wish it were different but that's the world I live in. I'd look pretty stupid backing out the door with a pistol trained on the gunman just in case he turned and I'd understand the outrage of the people I abandoned but I don't get a vote on how the laws are written, enforced, and applied. I just need to be there for my family.

In a free world of course I'd use force to stop him. But I don't live in a free world. Not the answer everybody wants to hear (hey I might be abandoning your spouse/kids in that shop) but for those of us in certain areas it's the correct answer.

I'm with the other commenters. I would have walked out the door.
He didn't seem agitated enough to cause real damage, and I don't wanna be in the crossfire if I'm wrong, or if somebody confronts him.

The Professor:
Honestly?  Not a damned thing (with a caveat).

First, at no time was anyone's life in danger of death or grievous bodily injury.  Yes, the guy was toting a gun, but if you'll notice, it didn't appear to be specifically aimed at anyone at any given time and, as has been pointed out before, the guy was passing it off between hands.

Second, (and this is an unknown, the video isn't all that great) the guy may have had a bulletproof vest on.  He appeared to have, at the very least, some tactical gear.

Third, no one can guess the background from the video if you were, for example, the guy in front of the counter.  There were two, maybe three voices.  I don't know the set of the structure. . .what's behind the walls on the other side of the counter. . .is there another store there?  A gym?  A preschool?  It looked like the store was in a strip-type mall. The back may have been wood and siding or it may have been concrete.  I don't know.

Remember YOU answer for every bullet that leaves the barrel of your gun . . . and they can't be called back once the hammer (or striker) falls.

IF someone's life was in immediate danger, there is the option of dropping to a knee to try a headshot at an angle that would minimize the chance for a ricochet or overpenetration into a crowded area, but that's an absolute last resort.  Despite those whose nerves are made of titanium and for whom an adrenal response is more akin to a sugar rush. . .and who also possess a match-grade sidearm, have lightning-fast draws and for whom  putting a couple of bullets on a dangling ping-pong ball  at 10' is child's play, those of us who are mere mortals understand that making a headshot on a moving target is difficult under any circumstances.

If anything, ANYTHING went wrong. . .a miss that ricocheted and injured someone, a miss that resulted in the robber pulling the trigger and his pellets or slug found someone. . .it is going to be YOU who is sitting before a jury of your peers taking responsibility for your actions.

So, from what I saw, there was nothing calling for the use of deadly force in that video.  And I sure as hell ain't going to jail or stand a trial for, as NKTAWG put it, a robber robbing a robber.

I wouldn't have left, though.  I would have to deal with my own conscience if I left and the guy killed the others when I had the ability and tools to stop it.

The Professor

As a customer, I would let him walk.

If that was my business, I would have shot him until the threat was stopped. With a business like that, you need to protect it or they come back.

A family friend got his small bait and snack store robbed 2x in 2 weeks. 70% of his income came from Independence, Memorial & Labor day sales, business was closed during the winter. The 3rd weekend was a 4th of July and was very busy day, the kind of day that makes or breaks his business. When the bad guys came in, he reached under the counter for a bag and shot his .45 through the counter and hit 2 out of the 3 bad guys. His wife waiting, walked around the back of store, and shot out the tire with a shotgun as they fled(peppered the car). They made it about 2 miles before the car crashed. the 3 bad guys all got hurt in the car accident and could not flee.  The state did not support the 2nd at the time, and the owner and wife were charged along with the bad guys. They actually got felony charges for having fired a weapon at a crime scene. It hardly made the news. Charges were dropped on our friends, and bad guys did a little time.

But, word of mouth stopped the store from ever getting robbed again.


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