Armory, Self Defense, And EDC > Firearm Self Defense

Self defence scenerio

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mnotlyon:
Every time I read a news story about a self defence incident, I try to put myself in that situation so I can mentally react. I've got one that unfortunately happened to my 22 year old son. What would you do?

According to my son, he and about 8 of his frat brothers were at a friends house minding their own business, having a few beers. Four guys came to the private party and were asked to leave. Words were exchanged, and the guys left.

They came back with 11 friends (15 total). By this time there were only 6 frat brothers left in the house. The party crashers kicked the door in and proceeded to beat the crap out of everybody in the house. It ended when the home owner grabbed a shotgun and ordered them to leave. One of the crashers walked towards him and said, "you won't do it, go ahead and shoot me I dare you". The frat brother racked the slide of the EMPTY shot gun and the crashers decided to leave.

One of the frat brothers had surgery on a broken jaw and sinuses. Some of the others ended up with stitches. It looks like everybody will be ok.

Now, the question is, what would you have done?

If I were there, I would have been armed. Normally, I have an LCP in my pocket without an extra mag. With 15 young guys against 6 young guys and an old guy, I would likely have shot. I'm confident that I could prove disparity of force. I'm not confident what would have happened when my 6 shots were gone. :(  In hind sight, I'd rather take a beating than kill somebody, but who know's what a gang like that might do?

Cedar:
Granted I am 5'6"

1. Call 911 and get them on the way. Did not one of those guys have a cell phone?
2. Get out of the building, away from the ruckus.... and/or...
3. Find an equalizer
4. Not let the 'bad guys' get between me and an escape.
5. Look for an out
6. If they insist on getting in an altercation with me, fight dirty and come out on top. Take out their airway.. which you can do with even a finger, no matter what your size.

Cedar

trekker111:
Not knowing what state you are in, the laws surrounding such an incident may vary. My state of South Carolina is a castle doctrine state, so if the story happened as your son says it did, then as soon as the door was kicked open, the ones who came in were bought and paid for, as long as they were still inside the house.

This sort of situation, multiple attackers, is why when I assist with concealed carry classes I recommend against small pocket pistols. Even off duty I carry a gun of substantial cartridge and capacity, usually either a glock 22 or 27, 40 s&w, 15+1 and 9+1 respectively. While hunting/ camping usually a revolver in 45colt.

There are a few things that raised my curiosity and caused pause, in your son's story. I must fully admit that some of these may simply be being jaded by 15 years in law enforcement, and past experience fueling assumptions on my part, and just as much time as a father, and it tempering your sons story to you.

Is your son, and his frat brothers, old enough to drink? Very rarely have I ever heard of frat brothers having a few beers actually meaning just that. When I was that age, a few beers meant I was probably somewhere between 2x the legal limit, and alcohol poisoning.

Words being exchanged was quite possibly more than the simple picture that statement gives.

Alcohol can complicate what would otherwise be a fairly simple self defense shooting. The mere possession of a firearm while under the influence is often a criminal offense. The extent of the words which were exchanged can further complicate things, as your son and his friends could be shown as contributing to the incident, and therefore nullifying legal protections which would help the homeowner who grabbed the shotgun.

Their alcohol consumption would not complicate the situation for you, had you been there, however, the extent of the words exchanged between the 2 sides, if shown that your son and his friends contributed to the incident, could also complicate your use of force to defend them.

The saving grace in this situation would be the kicked in door. That single point would likely reverse the previously mentioned complications in all but the most liberal jurisdictions.

GreyWolf:
I live in Missouri. We have something here called the castle doctrine which says if someone kicks in your door you do not have to retreat to the furthest corner of your bedroom while your attacker has to have a lethal weapon in his hands before you are allowed to use your firearm to protect yourself and your family. Not sure which state you live in. Irregardless of how much alcohol was consumed there is no justification for kicking in someones door and then assaulting the occupants. In this state that will get you killed real quick. Cedar has the right idea, if presented with this situation grab the cell phone, call 911, then pick up the nearest blunt object and go to town on these a@@holes. They get what they deserve. Amazingly it required the resident owner to display a weapon and then by racking a round into the chamber to show he was willing to use it to protect himself and the occupants to put an end to the attack. I remember when concealed carry was allowed in a few states. The FBI statistics proved that crime was reduced because of this right. In Florida gang members were car jacking rental car drivers because they could detect them by the license plate. They knew that out of state drivers were unarmed therefore easy victims who could not fight back. Florida has since changed their rental car license plate laws. Sadly bullies do not respect the rights of others. You have to motivate them to accept the fact that you have the right to exist without being attacked every time they get the itch. If you do not stand up to those who bully you then you will be attacked. I'm glad the incident did not turn lethal for all concerned.A police report with charges filed should have been the next step.If nothing else to teach the attackers they cant go around kicking in doors and assaulting people without paying a price.

Sephiroth:
Self defense, one very hard topic to discuss....

Well, IMO the best to do is avoid a fight/confrontation even if i am right or armed. Because no matter if you are right or wrong, you WILL HAVE the legal issue afterwards to attend to and also the social/pysological issue to cope with...

If a person breakes into my home without a gun:

1º - Tell the person to go away from a safe distance.

2º - did not work, get into a room, lock it and call 911.

3º - Even after knowing the Police is on its way, the person starts to break stuff or come at me, then yes. I start fending off the attack   from non-lethal to, god forbid, lethal. This avoids me beeing prosecuted for not giving the attacker the chance to back off.

But, if the person breakes in and HAS A GUN:

1º - Look for an escape route.

2º - No escape route ? Lock myself in and call 911.

If shots are fired, and i dont have a gun well then to bad i never had an emergency plan for a Predator attack... Which is what i am starting to work on.

Always avoiding a fight or killing someone, even if legitament, is the best IMO. Violence only generates more violence. And there is always the chance i am the one that gets hurt the most.

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