Armory, Self Defense, And EDC > Firearm Self Defense

Self Defense or Murder?

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BlueHound:
"The recent incident in Little Falls, Minnesota, in which two teenagers apparently broke into a man’s house and were subsequently shot by the home owner, brings into sharp focus the issue of what constitutes legitimate self defense. The story first broke just after Thanksgiving."

"As a longtime firearm instructor and gun rights activist I am constantly amazed at the lack of understanding by the average person of just what constitutes self defense. More importantly, they seem particularly naive about the complex, and often subjective, process by which any self defense case is likely to be judged. Ask any number of your friends the following question: “When can you use deadly force to protect yourself?”

"By and large you will get answers that are all too brief, all too simplistic, and more often than not, all too wrong. Typical responses will be “if you’re in fear for your life” or “if someone’s in your house, you can shoot ‘em.” The number of people who think that just because someone is in their house, that they can blast away willy-nilly with impunity is simply staggering."

https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/legal-issues/self-defense-or-murder/?utm_source=SilverpopMailing&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=ar7_fc12_self_defense_or_murder.html%20%282%29&utm_content=

Jack Crabb:
"She was still gasping for air, so he fired what he called a "good clean finishing shot" under her chin "up into the cranium," the complaint said. And then police weren't called until the next day."

That may not play well to the jury.

Use of defensive force is authorized to counter the unlawful force. Once the threat is gone, so is the right to self-defense.

AOJ - ability, opportunity, jeopardy. The incapacitated assailant has no ability to cause harm. Without the ability, there is no opportunity. No ability or opportunity, no jeopardy.

Remember, Bernie Goetz won the criminal trial, but lost the civil trial due to a remark along the lines of "you don't look too bad, here's another." The added shot left the plaintiff paralyzed and Goetz subject to the civil judgment.

BlueHound:
This is one case where the victim became the perpetrator.  He buried himself with his actions and his own words.

As responsible armed citizens, we can only shoot to stop the threat.  We can NEVER shoot to kill.  Shooting at the center of mass is fine, but you're not doing it to kill.  You shoot there because it is the most effective way to stop the threat.  Once the threat is no longer a threat, you must stop shooting...unless you want to spend the rest of your life in the Iron Bar Hotel.

And it is critically important how you articulate what happened and why you did what you did when you speak to the police or the jury.  This guy is the perfect example of what not to do and say.  The prosecutor is virtually guaranteed a conviction.

Rangeboss:
As a responsible gun owner, know the laws, know the circumstances you can use lethal force and follow them. Once you bring a gun out, you have taken it to the next level. Just be prepared to explain and justify your actions. Unless your neighbor has lots of acreage and a back hoe. (Just kidding about the back hoe).

LibertyBelle:

--- Quote from: BlueHound on August 08, 2013, 05:16:54 PM ---As responsible armed citizens, we can only shoot to stop the threat. 

--- End quote ---

Agreed.  However, if that first shot happens to be a lethal one....

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