Author Topic: 18650 Lithium Cell Recommendations: The good, the bad, and the ugly  (Read 99979 times)

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: 18650 Lithium Cell Recommendations: The good, the bad, and the ugly
« Reply #60 on: January 21, 2016, 07:17:18 PM »
I bought six new Orbtronics from their website for $9.20 each, plus shipping.

Wow, that's a good deal, looks like they're now at $13.51!

endurance

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Re: 18650 Lithium Cell Recommendations: The good, the bad, and the ugly
« Reply #61 on: January 21, 2016, 07:31:34 PM »
Wow, that's a good deal, looks like they're now at $13.51!
Sorry, I misremembered.  They were $12.16 each.  I think that was the price of those Chinese Orbs that you steered me away from.  The price drops with quantity.

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: 18650 Lithium Cell Recommendations: The good, the bad, and the ugly
« Reply #62 on: January 21, 2016, 09:22:25 PM »
Sorry, I misremembered.  They were $12.16 each.  I think that was the price of those Chinese Orbs that you steered me away from.  The price drops with quantity.

I've been hunting around for genuine Panasonic NCR 18650B cells and eventually decided that Orbtronic's reputation probably ups the odds I'm getting the real deal.  Shipping wasn't too bad, no sales tax, and the website was painless. 
« Last Edit: January 21, 2016, 09:31:32 PM by FreeLancer »

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: 18650 Lithium Cell Recommendations: The good, the bad, and the ugly
« Reply #63 on: January 23, 2016, 08:00:24 PM »
The 3W testing is underway, with the new cell holder and short 10ga leads working perfectly on the three brands tested so far, absolutely zero voltage drop and no more wobbly voltage tracings.

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: 18650 Lithium Cell Recommendations: The good, the bad, and the ugly
« Reply #64 on: January 30, 2016, 04:31:05 PM »
I've really fallen down the rabbit hole with this thing.  It's bordering on an obsession. 

Despite getting up every 3-4 hours at night in order to keep the CBA humming away, I'm still only 2/3rds done with the 3W constant drain testing.  But the data is so much better this time and I've researched, as far as possible, the underlying cell manufacturers, PCB, and specs of each brand, which has been very interesting.  And I've gotten better with Excel.

Offline Carl

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Re: 18650 Lithium Cell Recommendations: The good, the bad, and the ugly
« Reply #65 on: January 30, 2016, 04:39:25 PM »
The fate of the world may rest on your data!!!

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: 18650 Lithium Cell Recommendations: The good, the bad, and the ugly
« Reply #66 on: January 30, 2016, 04:48:39 PM »
The fate of the world may rest on your data!!!

Unfortunately.....not.  I could have just gone to that HKJ guy's site, spent a few hours perusing his data, and called it a day.

The fate of my marriage will rest on obscuring the large sum I've blown on all this crap, though.

endurance

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Re: 18650 Lithium Cell Recommendations: The good, the bad, and the ugly
« Reply #67 on: January 30, 2016, 09:00:18 PM »
...

The fate of my marriage will rest on obscuring the large sum I've blown on all this crap, though.
Now that sounds a familiar refrain. ;)

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: 18650 Lithium Cell Recommendations: The good, the bad, and the ugly
« Reply #68 on: January 31, 2016, 05:04:24 AM »
For anyone who can't wait another couple of days, here's the big take home lessons from the 3W test:

1)  Don't buy anything I've listed above with "fire" in the name.  It's really not worth it from a monetary perspective, plus the provenance of the cells and the functionality of any "protection circuitry" is dubious, based on what I've been able to research.  As my testing progresses, I hope to be able to determine whether the protection advertised for these products actually works, but that will be a ways off.

2)  The Orbtronic products are testing at the top of the heap.  Specifically their 3400mAh protected cells based on the Panasonic NCR18650B, as well as the unprotected Panasonic NCR 18650B 3500maAh cells I purchased from them, and their unprotected LG MJ1 3500mAh cells.  I haven't tested the Orbtronic protected cells based on the LG MJ1, yet, but I expect them to do well, based on the performance I've seen thus far from this company.  Orbtronic seems to have hit the sweet spot when it comes to performance, price, and customer service.  There is really nothing I've found to fault the company with.

3)  For whatever reason, the other companies making protected cells they claim are based on the Panasonic NCR 18650B do not perform to the same standard as Orbtronic, even those using the (apparently) same Seiko protection circuitry.  These include the Simon, KeepPower, Foxnovo, Olight, EagleTac 3400, and ThruNtie brands.

4)  The Eastshine 3500 that is also based on the LG MJ1 had stellar results on the first two cells I tested, but the 4 additional cells I purchased (to increase the sample size of this promising product) appear to be totally different, both in weight per cell and the overall performance of the voltage discharge curve.  Obviously they changed cells somewhere in between, and I can't recommend taking a risk on them when you can go the Orbtonic route.

5)  Stay away from EalgeTac cells, and avoid Nitecore, unless it's part of a good package deal.  They're both really sucking all around this time.

6)  I think it's a fairly safe bet that, if you only need to run a high output LED light that uses a single 18650, you can probably just get either the unprotected Panasonic or LG cells and the XTAR VP2 charger and get way more bang for the buck.  The biggest risk in that situation is that run the cell below 2.5V while using it, however, with the VP2s ability to safely charge an over-discharged cell, you mitigate the risk of using an unprotected cell.  Obviously, if you want to be super safe, or have a need to run multiple cells in series or parallel, get one of the Orbtronic protected cells.

These recommendations may change as I get into the higher discharge rates, but I kind of doubt it based on what I'm seeing after 48 cells tested.  I've only got the protected Orbtronic 3500s and the cells I've salvaged from two Makita packs, and a USB pack, left to test.

Also, another warning:  The qualities necessary for a good LED light battery, are different from those desired in a power tool or vaporizer.  The bulk of these cells I'm testing are for lights, not the other higher amp environments.  It's difficult to build a cell that can excel at both very high current discharge and capacity. 

Offline chad

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Re: 18650 Lithium Cell Recommendations: The good, the bad, and the ugly
« Reply #69 on: January 31, 2016, 08:27:54 AM »
Fantastic work freelancer, your helping a lot of people make a sound choice.

Thanks and +1

endurance

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Re: 18650 Lithium Cell Recommendations: The good, the bad, and the ugly
« Reply #70 on: January 31, 2016, 10:03:43 AM »
Based on your earlier data, I bought six Orbtronics. I had a random assortment of Trustfires, LG and Panasonics that I used, but most of my devices needed the button top, so I was depending on the same Trustfires I'd had for a good 3-5 years.  I hadn't realized how lousy they were or how worn out they were until I got my Orbtronics.  All of the Trustfires are now relegated to around the house tasks (but most of them have been retired to storage), while the Orbtronics have taken over all my critical applications (firefighting stuff).

I'm not sure I would have ever gotten around to paying the cash to replace my old batteries if it weren't for this thread.  I'll probably pick up another half dozen before summer and retire the rest of my Trustfires.

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: 18650 Lithium Cell Recommendations: The good, the bad, and the ugly
« Reply #71 on: February 04, 2016, 08:15:32 PM »
Here's the 3W data dump.  There's actually one more Nitecore cell testing right now, but it's not going to throw the averages at all, so I figured I'd just put the data out tonight.

Name: In most cases, this is the brand on the packaging, but for the unprotected cells it's the model number of the cell.

Mfr:  This is the maker of the underlying cell, if known.  Most of these are based on the Panasonic NCR18650B, but there are a few LG MJ1s, a Sanyo, some Sony cells from bad Makita packs, and some unknowns that came out of a USB charge pack, which are marked Black because they've got black shrink wrap and no identification.

mAh Wh: These are the ratings provided by the brand or manufacturer.  I was able to find definitive ratings for mAh on all but the Black cells, but for those I had a capacity rating for the USB pack and calculated that a 12,000mAh pack of 6 cells in parallel equals 2000mAh per cell.  For the Wh rating, if there was an official listing I used it, otherwise I'd default to the underlying cell, or calculate it based off the mAh rating and multiplying by 3.6V.

A: This is the maximum continuous discharge current for the cell.  This was not available for the cheap cells, so I left those blank.  You will notice that there are differences between the brands using the Panasonic cells, which may be due to the PCBs on some being set to cut the circuit at a lower current than others, but I won't know until I do the higher current testing.

PCB: This is the maker of the protection circuitry added to the cell.  Seiko seems to be preferred on the premium cells and this was the only manufacturer listed by any of the cells.  For those that didn't list the maker I put down unk for unknown, and for the unprotected cells I put down none.

$/Cell: This is an actual price per a certain number of cells that I either purchased them at, or could find a verified listing for, which includes shipping, but possibly not sales tax.  For the salvaged Sony and Black cells, I estimated the price based on what I could see stuff selling for online, but I don't think it's super accurate.

g:  This is the average weight per cell in grams.  I purchased a more accurate scale than what I used before, so I would trust these weights more than those I listed previously.

mm: This is the length of the cell in mm, to the next half millimeter.  For example a cell that measures 65.2mm will be rounded to 65.5mm, and another that measures 69.6 will be rounded to 70mm.

W: This is the continuous power discharge used in the test.  For this set of data, they were all tested at a 3W rate.

#:  This is the number of cells tested of each Name.  For example, there were 6 Lingsfire cells, and 2 Thorfire cells.

The results section are aggregates of the individual cell tests, which I've hidden for clarity.  These have been formatted such that the bottom third are in red, the top third are in green, with the remainder being the native blue shading of the table.

The first 4 coumns report the average Ah and Wh, along with the standard deviation.  Standard deviation is essentially the average of the difference between each individual cell's results and the smaller the number the less variation there is in the test results, ie. each cells results are more identical.  The %mAh Wh are how well the cells test result compared to the rating provided by the manufacturer.  For example, the Ultrafire is listed as having 3000mAh and 10.8Wh rating, but the actual results are only 32% and 33% of the rating.

Finally, there's $/Wh and Wh/g, which provide a basis for comparing power output on a dollar cost basis, as well as by weight.  As before, the table is sorted by most favorable Wh/g to least favorable.




The first 4 sets of cells were all purchased from Orbtronics.  The MJ1 is an unprotected LG cell that Orbtronic welds a Seiko PCB to and sells as their protected 3500mAh battery.  Likewise, the Panasonic NCR18650B is the basis for the Orbtronic 3400mAh battery.  The NCR18650B is the basis for every other cell on this table that lists Pana in the Mfr column, but notice the differences in performance.  This indicates to me that there are significant grade levels when these cells are manufactured, or there may be counterfeiting involved, or maybe used cells are re-wrapped and sold as new.  Whatever the case may be, there's no getting around the fact that one brand's protected cell that's based on the NCR18650B can significantly under-perform another brand.


I started this thread primarily to see if I could get some feedback on Orbtronic and getting none decided to test a bunch to see how they stacked up.  Based on this data and my experience buying from them, I definitely can recommend them to anyone looking to make a smart purchase.

I've got to say, I was really disappointed with most of the other brands.  Don't assume that your favorite flashlight brand is going to give you a good deal on their branded 18650 cells.  More likely than not, you will wind up paying more for lower performance.  Nitecore is a perfect example of this.  Yes they make good lights and chargers, but their batteries are just middle of the pack performers that cost more than what you can get from a place like Orbtronic.

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: 18650 Lithium Cell Recommendations: The good, the bad, and the ugly
« Reply #72 on: February 04, 2016, 08:55:42 PM »
Well, I was wrong.  The final Nitecore tested did push its averages ahead of Thrunite.

Here's all the data for those who want to check my math.


Offline Carl

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Re: 18650 Lithium Cell Recommendations: The good, the bad, and the ugly
« Reply #73 on: February 04, 2016, 09:14:49 PM »
Great info,lot's of hard work..thanks and plus 1

Offline Alan Georges

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Re: 18650 Lithium Cell Recommendations: The good, the bad, and the ugly
« Reply #74 on: February 04, 2016, 09:18:11 PM »
Great info,lot's of hard work..thanks and plus 1
^^^^this

Quote
1)  Don't buy anything I've listed above with "fire" in the name.
Not so much a brand name as a built-in warning label...

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: 18650 Lithium Cell Recommendations: The good, the bad, and the ugly
« Reply #75 on: February 04, 2016, 10:08:19 PM »
Several of the things you'll notice when comparing the unprotected cells to their protected derivatives, are the penalties incurred by adding third-party protective circuitry (not that that's a bad thing), specifically in dollar cost, weight, length, and energy density.  In terms of dollars alone, it's more than double for many brands.

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: 18650 Lithium Cell Recommendations: The good, the bad, and the ugly
« Reply #76 on: February 05, 2016, 06:32:13 PM »
To illustrate how similar some of these cells are in appearance, look at the Orbtronic 3400, the Simon, and the KeepPower.  They look like they could have been made in the same place with different mylar stickers slapped on at the end of the assembly line.  All report using the same NCR18650B cells from Panasonic, as well as a Seiko PCB, which in these examples have a very distinctive gold/copper crosshatched appearance.  The Orbtronic 3500 apparently has the same Seiko PCB, but the Eastshine and Nitecore cells must use a different Seiko unit, because they have a plain nickel appearance.




While the performance of all three of these cells were quite close, the Orbtronic had both the highest scores and the lowest price. 

This type of shrink wrap is the most durable out of all the brands I've tested, some of which are already starting to tear and abrade just from getting them in and out of the cell holder and charger.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2016, 06:56:03 PM by FreeLancer »

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: 18650 Lithium Cell Recommendations: The good, the bad, and the ugly
« Reply #77 on: February 06, 2016, 03:43:18 PM »
Bam!  Tripped my first protection circuits while discharge testing at 12W.  Both Foxnovo cells went open circuit at 3.0V, which is exactly at its 4A rating. 

Interestingly, the Nitcore also has a 4A rating, but none of those 8 cells tripped during 12W testing, which, at the termination voltage of 2.8V, is equivalent to a maximum current of 4.29A.  It will be interesting to see if the Olight trips at 4A, too.

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: 18650 Lithium Cell Recommendations: The good, the bad, and the ugly
« Reply #78 on: February 10, 2016, 09:30:07 PM »
12W Data:

     


The 3W testing generated a collective 701Wh over 9.75 days.  The 12W round made 558Wh in 2 days.

This time the 3500mAh cells had the edge.  Although the Orb34s and unprotected Pansonics hung in there real well.

The Foxnovo cells' performance was cut short when the protective circuitry kicked in at 4A, but it was the only one on this round.

Next round is 19W, which will produce a max current just under the 6.8A that Panasonic recommends for the NCR18650B.  For those cells with circuitry that breaks in at 10A, I'll have to do a separate test where I set the CBA to spike above 10-12A for just a few seconds, as Panasonic states it can handle 5-6 seconds in that range.  Trying not to ruin any of the good cells if I can help it.

Offline Carl

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Re: 18650 Lithium Cell Recommendations: The good, the bad, and the ugly
« Reply #79 on: February 11, 2016, 06:06:12 AM »
Watching for the mushroom cloud..... ::)

endurance

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Re: 18650 Lithium Cell Recommendations: The good, the bad, and the ugly
« Reply #80 on: February 11, 2016, 07:56:48 AM »
Good to see the orbtronics toward the top again under dramatically different loads.

And I'll be watching for the cloud, too.

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: 18650 Lithium Cell Recommendations: The good, the bad, and the ugly
« Reply #81 on: February 11, 2016, 09:11:17 AM »
And I'll be watching for the cloud, too.

Not to worry, everything I've tested thus far is shutting down at 6A, even one brand that's actually rated for 10A, and that includes the crapfires, too.  Most aren't even running long enough to get more than a little warm.

At this rate, I doubt I'll have more than 4 protected brands that make it to 2.8V @ 19W, and half of those are Orbs.

For the unprotected cells, I'm not testing anything that isn't clearly rated for high current, so I'm probably out of the woods, as everything I was apprehensive about has tripped the protection circuitry.

Offline Ms. Albatross

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Re: 18650 Lithium Cell Recommendations: The good, the bad, and the ugly
« Reply #82 on: February 11, 2016, 09:23:11 AM »
Watching for the mushroom cloud..... ::)

Carl, you must be feeling a little better.  It's good to see your sense of humor returning!   :)

Offline Carl

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Re: 18650 Lithium Cell Recommendations: The good, the bad, and the ugly
« Reply #83 on: February 11, 2016, 09:35:31 AM »
Carl, you must be feeling a little better.  It's good to see your sense of humor returning!   :)

I am a week out of a major chemo dose and have what feels like a fever blister that encompasses
my mouth (in and out) and nose ,including sinuses. I am miserable and have no immune system...
BUT my mind is clear and TSP or sleep is about my only escape from the screaming headaches.
I still have no scan run to encourage me that this extreme dosage is doing any good.

I did get a gift from MAI THAI coffee as I can't drink cool or cold stuff and though at 59 years old ,
I never drank coffee,I am enjoying the blends that I received and that ,plus the caffeine, has lifted my
spirits a good bit.

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: 18650 Lithium Cell Recommendations: The good, the bad, and the ugly
« Reply #84 on: February 12, 2016, 04:34:39 PM »
19W Data Dump




Actually, more cells completed this round of constant power discharge testing than I was predicting.  For those cells that tripped the over-current circuitry, I've shaded the A column and replaced the value with the actual current that triggered the shutdown.  If I felt the circuitry behaved favorably, or as documented, I shaded them green and used red for the ones that didn't function as advertised (or would be dangerous, but I haven't had one of those yet, maybe next time).

The Nitecore, Thorfire, Lingsfire, and Olight all tripped off favorably, mostly at a slightly higher current than advertised, but still within the parameters of the underlying cell (at least in the case of the NCR18650Bs).  I watched the crapfires like a hawk because I could find no information on what the max current specifications were, but they did fine.  Unfortunately, Eastshine, which is based (allegedly) on the LG MJ1 cut out at 6A, far below the 10A proclaimed in its advertising specifications.  That's seriously not cool!  And the Thrunite claims a 7A maximum continuous discharge, but blew well before then.

I wasn't going to test the Ultrafire cells this round, but was curious to see if its protection circuitry would kick in somewhere under 7A.  As you can see, it did not.  But it also continued to perform like crap, running for such a short time it didn't have a chance to even get a little warm.  I'm going to throw it in with NCR18650B's that made it through this round and see if it trips off above 10A in short pulse load testing, but I don't think it will.  I think Ultrafire has some dinky little AAA-size cell hiding inside an 18650 canister, as it's extremely light and dramatically underperforms the next lightest Sony VT cells.

I did not test the Black cells (salvaged from a USB charge pack) this time.  They were a bit too hot at the end of 12W and their discharge curves definitely showed straining.  Given that 12W may be the upper limit of what would be expected from a USB device like this, I figured I wouldn't push it.  They actually surprised me with their performance and I'm curious who made them, but have had absolutely no success in tracking down any information about them.

Speaking of heat, the Panasonics were a bit hot this round, at least the one's whose circuitry let them discharge all the way down to 2.8V.  It's quite obvious why 6.8A is the maximum continuous discharge current for these cells.  The 3500 stuff wasn't as hot and obviously they have been optimized to better handle the heat generated in a higher current draw.  Interestingly, the Orb34's were not as hot as the bare NCR18650s, at least subjectively.  This heat issue has prompted me to order the temperature probe for the CBA from West Mountain Radio today, so I can get a bit more insight into that aspect of cell performance.

And speaking of higher current draw, the Sonys are definitely coming into their own as we get into the higher power testing (they're rated for 20A).  I almost didn't test them against the protected cells, but I'm glad I did, because it's really illustrated to me how this technology has multiple competing goals, high capacity, high current, low weight, and low cost.  You don't get all four in one package.  Although the top-grade NCR18650's seem to hit the sweet spot as an all-around performer, particularly the Orbtronic 3400.

The 3500mAh stuff did the best again, with the exception of Easthine, which, as mentioned above, was sabotaged by being saddled with an overly conservative protective circuit.  The LG MJ1 stuff pulled well away from the Panasonics this round, although the Sanyo-based EagTac35 performed well, too, but at an unacceptable cost.  Despite that, the Orbtronic 3400's are still an impressive all-around cell that managed to hang near the top, while remaining competitive in the price per performance department.

I'm even further convinced that Orbtronic does the best job of selecting the highest performing cells to use for their protected products and suspect that the bare cells they're selling must be second tier performers that they weed out and offload without putting their name on them.  In other words, if you took the underlying Orb34 and Orb35 cells, minus the overhead of the protection circuitry they add on, they'd out perform the MJ1 and NCR18650B's I purchased from them.  That's my theory, anyway.

Next test is 28W and will only involve the Sony's, EagTac35, Orb35, and MJ1's, as these are the only cells left that can handle a 10A current for prolonged period.  Shouldn't take long.  Then I'll come up with a solution for verifying the over-current protection on the cells that haven't yet tripped the circuitry.


PS - I got a metric dial caliper (fiber reinforced polymer, so I don't short the terminals during measurement, which could be catastrophic) that's accurate to 0.1mm and updated the table with the average length of each cell.

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: 18650 Lithium Cell Recommendations: The good, the bad, and the ugly
« Reply #85 on: February 13, 2016, 12:00:50 AM »
28W Data Dump




No huge surprises.  The LG MJ1's continued to hold on to the top spot, although I would not have wanted to run them any harder due to the amount of heat they generated, about as hot as you could hold in your hand for an extended length of time.  The Sony's were just a little warm in comparison.  I'm definitely understanding the relationship between heat, capacity, current, weight, and cost, so much better after doing these tests.

The protected cells did not get as hot as the MJ1's, though, probably because they didn't run long enough to accumulate as much heat.  Running an extra 8 minutes makes a big difference at this power level.  Both the EagTac35 and Orb35's shut down around 9.8A, +/-0.2, and each had one cell that cruised to 2.8V without tripping.  Given that I have 8 Orbs and only two of the EagTac's, I'm less certain about the latter, so I'll probably test them again with the remaining NCR18650B's and see what happens with pulsed high current loads above 10A.

And the Ultrafire's still suck!  They've got almost zero run-time and still don't trip any over-current circuitry on the semi-controlled free-fall to 2.8V.  I don't know about the rest of the cells with that name, but my red and silver labeled samples are a joke.  I'm not sure what they are, but they're not what they're advertised to be.  Even the Ding-a-Lingfire's outperformed them by a factor of two, at almost half the price, and it has functioning over-current protection.  You could pull the cells out of a defunct laptop battery or USB charge pack and have a better cell, at no cost (well, unless you short something out and burn the house down during the dismantling process).  I found this picture, which seems to prove my Ultrafire hypothesis, namely that they're a small crappy cell hidden in a mostly empty shell.



Here's some more:

 

Remember.....friends don't let friends buy Ultrafire!
« Last Edit: February 13, 2016, 12:14:35 AM by FreeLancer »

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: 18650 Lithium Cell Recommendations: The good, the bad, and the ugly
« Reply #86 on: February 14, 2016, 07:57:52 PM »
Here's a summary table with the final maximum current thresholds for all the cells that have protection circuitry for over-current situations. 
The results of the over-current protection testing are now listed in the A column.  I also totaled up the Wh results for each cell's performance at the four power test levels.  It's not the best comparison, certainly not the fairest, but I wanted to get some idea of overall performance.




Interestingly, the EagTac35's both shut down between 12-12.5A, so the previous shut down at 9.8A was likely triggered by overheating (an unmeasured variable), and I think I opened a window and turned on a fan (we've had a head wave recently) when I tested the second cell, which would explain why it didn't trip the same circuitry.  As you can see, these cells had the highest current threshold, a good 2A above the 10A that Sanyo cell is rated for.

But, you'll notice the Simon and Orbtronic34's shut down between 10.5-11A, well above the 6.8A the Panasonic cell is rated for, so it's something to be aware of with these, especially if you're running loads that will bump up against 7A.  Although, it's very possible that the temperature threshold will be met in those circumstances, so maybe it doesn't matter as much in the real world.  These things do get hot at their upper current limits.

While the KeepPower cells physically look identical to the Simon and Orb34's, you'll notice that it has a current threshold of 8.5-9A, so obviously these three are not using the exact same Seiko protection circuitry.

And, as expected, I could not get the Ultrafire to shut down at any current limit and it's not clear if this is due to the total lack of protection circuitry or the cell being incapable of currents above 4A, probably both.  Why waste money on an integrated circuit for an anemic cell?


For those who aren't interested in the high current test results, I've done cumulative charts that do not include the 28W, as well as the 19 and 28W, test results.  Honestly, I think the 3 and 12W tests are much more realistic for normal use in the high performance flashlight world, anyways.

   

Offline date_a_prepper

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Re: 18650 Lithium Cell Recommendations: The good, the bad, and the ugly
« Reply #87 on: February 15, 2016, 03:40:16 AM »
I am miserable and have no immune system...

Carl, for your immune system try Carnivora
for the cancer, try: Graviola available at: http://www.A1DV.com
and OXY E don't remember where I found it (I believe EBay)

Was sent home 1yr ago to make my final arrangements (tumors where spreading and growing at an uncontrollable rate), was told by VA there was nothing more they could do.

Used the items I stated above in high doses, along with BlueGreen smoothies(use small amount with lots of fruit and fruit juice - BlueGreen smells and taste like sewage).

Biopsy 6 months ago showed most tumors were gone, and only one left large enough to even biopsy (results now Cancer free), again tested at the beginning of the month and all is still looking good (waiting on labs).

Give it a try, what do you have to lose; wishing you the best of luck.


Offline date_a_prepper

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Re: 18650 Lithium Cell Recommendations: The good, the bad, and the ugly
« Reply #88 on: February 15, 2016, 05:11:27 AM »
This is my disclaimer for the previous post.

I'm am not a doctor nor do I play a doctor on tv.

The advice given is not meant to be construed as medical advice; in all medical decisions the advice of a medical professional should be sought.

This is only my opinion of what worked for me, and my results are not typical, and are not to be construed as a guarantee of results you may experience.

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: 18650 Lithium Cell Recommendations: The good, the bad, and the ugly
« Reply #89 on: February 15, 2016, 08:24:30 PM »
After being unable to trip any voltage or current protection circuitry, I popped the top on one of my Ultrafire's and found that there's no circuitry, but also no tiny battery hiding inside, either.  It's the real deal, but wrapped only about half as tight as the Sony VT I tore down for comparison. 




DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME!!

Even below half a volt, with short circuit currents measuring in tens of milliamps, these both had some energy left when I opened them with a pipe cutter.  The Ultrafire positive end cap blew off and I never could find it in the back yard, while the Sony smoked a bit and got pretty hot.  On the positive side, I was impressed how tough the casings were on both of them.  It takes more effort to get them exposed to the air than I expected.