Author Topic: Should I attend Appleseed Practice  (Read 7149 times)

Offline Roamer

  • Survivor
  • ***
  • Posts: 106
  • Karma: 4
Should I attend Appleseed Practice
« on: December 03, 2014, 06:35:39 AM »
  There is an Appleseed Practice at the range the weekend. I have always wanted to attend an actual Appleseed 2 day event but was hesitant due to my rifle setup.

   I have an AR that put I together myself. It has a DPMS AR-15 Oracle A3 Flat-Top Upper. It has a Burris Fastfire III With flat top mount only for a sight.

   From reading about Appleseed the AR in 223 is not ideal for this training. I also believe that I need BUISs and a sling
for this rifle. After much research I have found the selection of BUIS for me to be limited. This is due to the front sight having to be mounted on the gas block. Also there really is no front mounting point for a sling. My correction for that would be to replace the hand guard or the gas block. The gas block only has a picatinny rail on the top of the gas block.

   My idea was to attend the Practice to get some advice from some knowledgeable folks there about setting up this
rifle. But I wanted to get some ideas from you knowledgeable folk here on the forum first.

Offline Virginian

  • Survivor
  • ***
  • Posts: 194
  • Karma: 7
  • The Virginian
Re: Should I attend Appleseed Practice
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2014, 07:18:39 AM »
Get in touch with the local coordinator, the few times I have been to an Appleseed there were loaner .22’s available,
you just need to let them know in advance and bring your own ammo.

Offline Chemsoldier

  • Pot Stirrer
  • Global Moderator
  • Survival Veteran
  • ******
  • Posts: 5882
  • Karma: 550
Re: Should I attend Appleseed Practice
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2014, 08:07:49 AM »
A person can attend an Appleseed with any rifle that is not a severe distraction from instruction (a .50 BMG for instance).  That being said, certain features are desirable and will enhance your learning experience.

As Virginian said, contact a local Appleseed member and they can likely help you get a loaner rifle.  Your rifle could be used on day 2 of a shoot if they have a full distance portion.  While they prefer people use rifles with slings and iron sights ultimately you run what you brung and they would rather have you at the shoot than not. 

To be honest, the proliferation of relatively cheap and robust sighting systems using glass has made the preference for iron sights somewhat obsolete.  *cue depth charges in 5-4-3...*

d3nni5

  • Guest
Re: Should I attend Appleseed Practice
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2014, 08:38:50 AM »
Go to the practice, it can't hurt.   You can use scopes in Appleseed (at least I did) just be sure you are sighted in before you get there.  You'll have a chance to tweak, but you need to be close to on target at the start.

I would say though, by the time you are done with a practice and an actual Appleseed event, your ammo costs will be ranging right up there with a decent used (or new even) .22LR.   Just some food for thought.

During my Appleseed, someone used an old M1 Garand.   He was a multiple event attender, and actually was getting ready to start wearing the orange hats (volunteer?).

Agree also with the others, those shoot bosses are great, and most of them will have loaner rifles for backups.   

Offline scoob

  • Senior Survivalist
  • ****
  • Posts: 290
  • Karma: 24
  • Chicken-farming knuckle-dragger
    • Marksmanship, History, Civic Engagement
Re: Should I attend Appleseed Practice
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2014, 10:59:35 AM »
  There is an Appleseed Practice at the range the weekend. I have always wanted to attend an actual Appleseed 2 day event but was hesitant due to my rifle setup.

A practice?  I'm curious how that one is set up.  Typically, we do 2-day events, but different locales have tried doing primers or informal range days, but usually after an event to do some fine-tuning, having had some time to absorb the instruction.

Run what you brung.  As stated above, there are ideal rifle setups for an Appleseed event, but we'd rather have you there than not.  We volunteer to do something that we could get paid to do.  Go and find out why.  Hint: It has something to do with Life, Liberty, and Sacred Honor  ;)
 

Quote
I have an AR that put I together myself. It has a DPMS AR-15 Oracle A3 Flat-Top Upper. It has a Burris Fastfire III With flat top mount only for a sight.

Perfect.  Don't let anyone tell you that you have to start with iron sights.  You'll learn to shoot with your sighting system on your rifle.  Or, if it inhibits you from receiving the instruction, an instructor probably has a loaner available.  Loaners are usually 10/22s, so bring some .22LR ammo just in case.  You probably won't need it though.

Quote
From reading about Appleseed the AR in 223 is not ideal for this training.

The only thing I find to be the limiting factor for bringing an AR to an Appleseed:  Price of ammo.  You'll probably be shooting 350-500 rounds.
 
A regular Appleseed event is shot at 25 meters.  This allows us to get as much instruction and trigger time as possible to the students without the time lost hiking to and from targets.  The fundamentals of marksmanship apply at close distance with a rimfire the same way they do at full distance.  Distance just adds ballistics to the equation.  So, a 25 meter Appleseed event is geared toward rimfire and has the advantage of cheaper ammo.  In today's climate, using a centerfire rifle at 25 meters takes advange of available ammo.  I'm sure I need not say any more on that.


Quote
I also believe that I need BUISs and a sling for this rifle. After much research I have found the selection of BUIS for me to be limited. This is due to the front sight having to be mounted on the gas block. Also there really is no front mounting point for a sling. My correction for that would be to replace the hand guard or the gas block. The gas block only has a picatinny rail on the top of the gas block.

BUIS, not necessary.
Sling, you should figure out some way to get a sling on your rifle, preferably a USGI web sling.  We'll show you how to use the sling to build a more stable shooting platform for accuracy in the field.  If you can't figure out a way to attach a sling, we've seen students tie on a shoe lace!  I-A-O:  Improvise-Adapt-Overcome.

Quote
My idea was to attend the Practice to get some advice from some knowledgeable folks there about setting up this rifle. But I wanted to get some ideas from you knowledgeable folk here on the forum first.

Don't hesitate to contact the shootboss.  Wherever the event was posted, there's probably an information link with an email address.  Introduce yourself, tell them you're coming.  Ask plenty of questions.  Remember:  VOLUNTEERS!  :)

Also, get on the Appleseed Forum and find your state board to get to know your local volunteers.
Appleseed Welcome Center
Appleseed State Boards

Be safe, have fun, and let us know how it goes.


Quote
and actually was getting ready to start wearing the orange hats (volunteer?).

Correct... volunteer.  You have to attend 2 Appleseed events and shoot a "Rifleman" score to take an orange hat, which means volunteer to become an instructor-in-training, on the path to becoming a red hat, or full instructor.  There are other ways to volunteer, but this is the instructor side of things.


Offline goofyshooter

  • Survivalist Mentor
  • *****
  • Posts: 314
  • Karma: 5
  • New TSP Forum member
Re: Should I attend Appleseed Practice
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2014, 11:58:31 AM »
If you can find one of these...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0041FTUHY/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Its a sling mount that attaches to the handguard, fits the DPMS perfectly.

Offline Roamer

  • Survivor
  • ***
  • Posts: 106
  • Karma: 4
Re: Should I attend Appleseed Practice
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2014, 05:19:10 PM »
If you can find one of these...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0041FTUHY/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Its a sling mount that attaches to the handguard, fits the DPMS perfectly.

Thanks that is great. I just ordered one along with a sling and a QD swivel for the rear. This will be much easier and less
costly than changing the handguard or gas block.

Thanks @scoob  for all your advice. Looks like my range is going to be having an Appleseed every other month next year. I will wait to get my sling and get my red dot zeroed and catch one of the full events.

Offline goofyshooter

  • Survivalist Mentor
  • *****
  • Posts: 314
  • Karma: 5
  • New TSP Forum member
Re: Should I attend Appleseed Practice
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2014, 05:23:12 PM »
Make sure you add a little lock tight when you screw the front sling mount together.

Offline Roamer

  • Survivor
  • ***
  • Posts: 106
  • Karma: 4
Re: Should I attend Appleseed Practice
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2014, 08:23:00 PM »
     Here is the response I got when I asked what a practice was:

"A practice Appleseed event is just us volunteering to teach marksmanship on our "free" weekends.  We'll do what we can although it would be better if you have the full grounding in an Appleseed weekend.

At a practice we'll teach what we can in 4 hours.  At the last practice we had people who had never shot their rifle getting to a 6MOA group.  The fundamentals work...which is why the Army asked groups like us to re-teach it to them!"

Offline Alan Georges

  • Survival Demonstrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 4593
  • Karma: 210
  • Still trying to reason with hurricane season.
Re: Should I attend Appleseed Practice
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2014, 08:29:27 PM »
Sounds like a great thing to attend, if only to get things sorted out before a full-on Appleseed session.  Don't over-think it, get your gear together as best as you can, go, and learn.

Offline Gulo gulo

  • Senior Survivalist
  • ****
  • Posts: 243
  • Karma: 9
  • Sic semper tyrannis
Re: Should I attend Appleseed Practice
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2014, 01:48:26 AM »
Don't let the "get ready before" talk dissuade you. Get as ready as you know you can get then head out. We instructors are well versed in IAO (improvise, adapt, and overcome). It's a class, not a competition.

A note about volunteers vs. instructors. Vs whatsits: you have the orange hat Instructor In Training(IIT). He's the guy who is going through the levels for his instructor certification. Requirements to become an IIT are to attend at least two events and score Rifleman on the AQT (I took three events to do it, which is average, I know others who did five or more before they scored. Don't give up!). Once he completes the IIT progression, he's a red hat Instructor. He can continue on to the training for green hat Shoot Boss , who runs the show, or he can remain a red hat. One final classification I will mention is the Blue Hat Volunteer. This is an individual who has not (yet;) scored Rifleman but wishes to help the program anyway (tell history, run admin, maybe they're not old enough yet for the orange hat (13)).

Come out, have fun, learn history and marksmanship!

Offline scoob

  • Senior Survivalist
  • ****
  • Posts: 290
  • Karma: 24
  • Chicken-farming knuckle-dragger
    • Marksmanship, History, Civic Engagement
Re: Should I attend Appleseed Practice
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2014, 09:42:53 AM »
"A practice Appleseed event is just us volunteering to teach marksmanship on our "free" weekends.  We'll do what we can although it would be better if you have the full grounding in an Appleseed weekend.

Don't let the "get ready before" talk dissuade you. Get as ready as you know you can get then head out. We instructors are well versed in IAO (improvise, adapt, and overcome). It's a class, not a competition.

That about sums it up.  A typical Appleseed weekend has often been described as "drinking from a fire hose". 

Two days is not a lot of time to learn, assimilate, practice, and polish all of the new skills that are taught.  Problem is that we have to present the whole package, as the fundamentals all work together.  This results in moving on to the next skill or drill before you've had time to absorb the last one or three.  Most people will need more than one Appleseed shoot to really get it

The practice weekend is a great opportunity to get that low-pressure time on the range to focus on that one element or two that you didn't get enough time on during the regular shoot.  But, as stated above, you should at least be presented the full set of fundamentals first.  Not a requirement, but ideal.  Depending on the turnout, you may be able to get a lot more one-on-one time with the instructors.

Thanks for your questions Roamer!  If you wouldn't mind, send me a PM (if you don't want the info public) and let me know where your range is.  It's fun and educational to network across communities and get feedback from different perspectives.  We get a significant number of TSPers at our events and a lot of good feedback from this community.

Offline Fyrediver

  • Survivalist Mentor
  • *****
  • Posts: 344
  • Karma: 22
Re: Should I attend Appleseed Practice
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2014, 06:32:09 PM »
Go, enjoy, have an open attitude, learn, and then see what you want to change.  The sling is the most important thing you're missing, but that said, you can still learn a lot without it!