Armory, Self Defense, And EDC > Bows and Arrows

Crossbow Basics.

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Mr. Bill:
OldSoul, welcome to TSP Forum and thanks for the info.

I need to warn you that the way you presented your info is not acceptable on this forum.  You are free to disagree with other members.  You may not insult them by calling them liars.

I encourage you to read more carefully the posts you're replying to.  Nobody claimed to have shot pests at 300 yards, only to have used the crossbow to eliminate pests from a shooting range.  Nobody claimed that crossbows are silent, only that they are quiet relative to other short-range weapons (e.g. handguns).

Please check out our forum's Terms of Service, and don't post any more personal attacks on other members.  Thanks.

fasteddie:
I haven't had a lot of practice but I do own some nice crossbows they are so fun to shoot, I have two 11 points one tactical one regular size , both with scopes and I have a horton hunter and a barnett, I have been trying to mount a night vision yukon scope on the barnet I think it would be cool, (coyotes) idk sounds fun.

Tactical Badger:
I just picked up a Ten Point GT Flex.  I'm REALLY looking forward to getting this one out for Spring Turkey season.

Steve Cover:

--- Quote from: OldSoul on February 23, 2012, 02:58:54 PM ---I am sorry but this is riddled with lies.
--- End quote ---

Wow!!!

Just found this.... I've not been back to this thread for some time.

Unlike your poor manners, I'll attempt to answer your accusations politely.


--- Quote ---Firstly the crossbow pictured and descibed by Steve is not a 25 year old barnett panzer. I know this because I own and shoot two of them.

There are pictures here of a Panzer or a Chinese copy.

http://fotoblog.in/clanek/419

I also own the Chinese copy. You can tell the two apart because there is a barnett logo on the bottom of the grip on the real one.

There is little in function between the original and the Chinese copy, the aluminium is slightly lighter and the dimensiosn of parts are marginally smaller.

Now there is nothing special about the panzer. It is a fairly bog standard 150lb crossbow. It will generate somewhere between 215FPS and 250FPS depending on the condition and the bolt tpe and grain weight.
--- End quote ---

First of all,  my Barnett Panzer predates the one you pictured.... (Barnett upgraded the design several years after I bought mine.. From the factory)
It truly is a Panzer.
I bought a foot stirrup from Barnett and fitted it to my crossbow along with a hokey cheap recoil pad to lengthen the stock.
You need to search further back to earlier designs....  Your bows are about five years younger than mine.


--- Quote ---The trouble is the rest of the comments relating to crossbows here are mostly bull with some cut and paste google facts thrown in.

For example

"I have a great time with my little Barnett Panzer, and have eliminated a couple of pests on my 300 Meter Silhouette Pistol Range in Eastern Washington"

Not unless they were the size of elephants.

At 300 meters the bolt has dropped so far below your sight window that you would hate no hope of hitting a one foot square target consistently. Up to 50 meters, sure, 100 meters, maybe if you *really* know what you are doing, 150 Meters if you have a bow your built and know what you are doing. 300 Meters? Just not possible. Complete nonsense.
--- End quote ---



This is my 300 Meters Silhouette range showing the Pigs, Turkeys, and Rams.





Chickens (Next to the outhouse) are shot from a different spot.

The ground squirrels that I shot were around 20 yards away.
What on earth would make you think I would shoot at anything at 300 yards with a crossbow?


--- Quote ---"I can attach broadheads to these bolts, and have a quiet shortrange weapon"
OK so crowwbows are supposed to be silent?
--- End quote ---

Quiet doesn't mean totally silent.... You should know that.
Taking a game animal in a survival situation, I may not want to use my 300 Weatherby.
The use of a crossbow would give the surrounding area a much lower noise signature and not alert anyone else to my location.


--- Quote ---Compele nonsense - they are noisy. This is a myth. The noise is sufficient to make will animals jump and run, which is why you should never shoot a crossbow at a living animal unless very close, the bold may end up maiming it if it jumps at the sound.
--- End quote ---

Quiet true... I've had deer react to the string noise from my recurve too.
Any deer hunting would naturally be from a blind, and shots taken under 50 yards.


--- Quote ---There are several 'devices' that attempt to silence crossbows but they also slow the FPS.

As with longbows tuning for crossbow broadheads is a challenge and quite difficult, in my experience 2 blade creates the best effect but feel free to experiment.
--- End quote ---

I've been making strings and arrows since 1962.
This of course means "tuning" arrows for broadheads too....
Just takes attention to detail, the correct spline, the right size fletching and a straight on head installation.


--- Quote ---Finally if you have indeed in a moment of madness decided that you are going to use steel wire as a serving on a kevlar or dacron based string, please stop before you loose an eye. Strings are cheap. I have in one third world country seen a piece of nylon washing line installed on an old barnett wildcat but unless you are re-enacting 'the road' there is very little reason not to just buy 50 bucks of strings and forget about it.
--- End quote ---

I use steel safety wire servings on the crossbow strings that I make because they abrade far less than the fabric servings from rubbing on the crossbow. 
I inspect my strings on a regular basis and discard often.
Been doing this for a lot of years with no problems....


--- Quote ---The rope cocking device pictured is just that a rope cocking device. You can get one on ebay for very little. It is not improvised.

--- End quote ---

I have the materials necessary to make my own... Using that picture, I'll improvise one instead of buy one.


--- Quote ---However in terms of accuracy it is absolutely critical that the string be drawn exactly without any additional  pressure to the left or right of the limb when it is cocked. This is the advantage of a goats foot. I own a barnett model which is no longer made, an ugly thing in white aluminium. Similarly cant is an accuracy destroyer and a spirit lever is a good extra.
--- End quote ---

Absolutely true.... your point?
Do you believe that I don't?


--- Quote ---Scopes and red dots are fairly pointless. If you can't see 60 Meters then a large moa glowing red dot is certainly not going to assist you.
--- End quote ---

I too have found this to be true.  I bought the cheap 22 rifle sight when I bought the bow.
I just have not had reason to change it.


--- Quote ---Archery clubs do not like crossbows. There is a good reason for this, they destroy arachery butts very quickly. A croosbow shooter may do better looking to a gun club in many countries and places.
--- End quote ---

Also true.
And of course every fool knows that members of an archery club would never own a crossbow.
However, in the odd chance that a member or two of a club does own a crossbow, they would also probably have a place to shoot it....


--- Quote ---This is probably the biggest problem a beginner crossbow shooter will have, bolts are expensive and easy to ruin unless you get a good backstop that preserves them.

2119 aluminium arrows may be used for bolts for 150 lb crossbows. There is little or nothing between the cheaper models and their chinese copies and even in the case of the more expsnive bows very little practical performance gain. In essense you will have a maximum accurate range of 60 meters and something that delivers the same FPS as a compound bow. They are noisy and expensive to run in both strings and bolts. Arachery tools are useful and quite cheap, get a scales that measures grains, an arrow cutter and a fleteching jig.

There is great depth to archery and most interesting results come from great care in bolt and arrow design and tuning. If you want to get the best from your bow focus on this.

I could go on....but readers should just take heed that there is much wrong with the stated facts and I am under the impression that this was written by someone charged with enthusiasm for a new toy who got a little carried away and feigned experience and with a pinch of wishfull thinking and fantasy thrown in for good measure..crossbows do not go 300 meters and are not silent and are no better than a compound bow in results. Love the things and wish they could do more but they can't, I've been shooting them for 20 years and have 7 of them hanging on my den walls as I type, along with a bunch of recurves and some compounds.

Quite happy to continue the thread and get into real detail on crossbows, archery, stone bows etc for those who are enthusiasts.

About the only really practcal use for a modern 150 LB is ambush hunting from a stand at short range using a bait. As a weapon it is pretty useless unless you are planning to ambush people, which I would hope you are not. Very little hope whatsoever of hitting a running target at 50 non of hitting reliably at all at any distance in excell of 100M unless you are playing at clout shooting.

DO NOT USE STEEL WIRE ON ARCHERY STRING SERVINGS OR YOU COULD BLIND YOURSELF.

--- End quote ---

Could you provide an example of where and when a steel serving caused a string failure?

It appears that you read quite a bit into my post that wasn't really there.

I'ts been my observation that some people like to tear down someone else to boost their own self worth.
From reading your post, it appears that you may qualify as one.

I'm sure that we would all love to bask in your expertise....

However, learn to read first.

Take Care,
and the horse you rode in on.

Steve

Steve Cover:
Being a bit stung by being called a lier, I finally decided to see if I could find documentation on my Barnett Panzer.



This model was made pre-1986 (I underestimated how long I've had it) in England for Barnett.

It is the original Panzer.

Oldsoul's crossbows are the Panzer II (Post-1986)

If you are still out there Oldsoul, your experience and opinions are still encouraged in this forum.

When you have something constructive to say, we would like to hear it.

Just clearing the air.

Still mildly pissed,

Steve

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