Armory, Self Defense, And EDC > Firearm Self Defense

Whole Bunch of Input Requested: AR Pistols as EDC Questions

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The Professor:

--- Quote from: FreeLancer on July 23, 2018, 11:54:27 AM ---Now you got me curious about your dark vision of the near future.  You can’t leave us hanging like that.  Could you do a separate thread to flesh that out a bit?

--- End quote ---

These are my opinions and fears based solely upon what I see, read and hear.  Does that mean they're correct?  No.  But, since part of my responsibility is to provide for my family's safety, I still prepare.

IMO, we are currently in the Calm Before The Storm phase in the US.  For the past ten years, those in influence have seemingly fomented an atmosphere of hate and distrust in the United States.  They have intentionally educated the past two generations in ways that are contradictory to the survival of the species (e.g., Don't stand up to bullies; Do not prepare to defend yourself if attacked; Trust in a centralized, separate authority; Celebrate stupidity over ingenuity and accomplishment; Self-reliance, on any level, is not only to be mocked, but chastised, repressed and punished; Support mental illnesses over recovery; etc.).

I am neither supporting nor opposing any political figure, but. . .we have a President in office that answers to neither party and we are seeing the Political Class having apopleptic fits despite his successes and progress.  They are doing so over a majority of the citizenry (i.e., the Common Class).  They are influencing what I can only foresee as a rebellion, founded upon ignorance.  The Common Class is getting tired of being the Whipping Boys of both the Political and "Enlightened Class."

I have mentioned, in an earlier post about now being the time to  purchase firearms and ammo, a specific window of opportunity.  As it applies to THIS discussion, that timeframe mirrors what I see as a time of great unrest in the US.  Right now, there are HUNDREDS of extreme left-wing politicians lining up to have a chance to see who can out-liberal each other for an opportunity to sit behind the big desk.

I'm guessing the window will start to close, slowly, about January as the Political Class begins ramping up for the next Presidential election. We will begin to hear liberal policies being pushed forward farther and faster than ever before, driven by one-upsmanship on the part of the politicians.  You think it's bad now?  Wait until they get a chance to tell everyone about how much more free stuff they're going to get when the Liberals take over the office.

We already have Antifah, a socialist group which is currently the laughingstock of most sane people, targeting the President as a Nazi.  Hilarious since the term "Nazi" was short for "National Socialist"  (For those who don't know, in German, the "z" is usually pronounced as "ts", so "National" was pronounced as "Natsi-onal," or "Na-tsi" for short).  Socialists fighting socialism.  Hilarious.

The race divide will be broadened even wider than it is, now.  I find great humor and hypocrisy in the fact that Democrats are claiming Republicans are racist when it was Democrats who fought tooth and nail for so many years to keep racist laws and it was Republicans who fought for integration on all social levels.  I actually had to stop my car in Tennessee when I saw a portion of highway dedicated to one of the greatest anti-black Democrat politicians and heard no hue or cry for removal of that sign, yet gangs of people are not only demanding, but defacing Confederate statues and monuments.

But, enough of that.  In my opinion, this country is like a giant bottle of Coke.  It's being shaken and spun this way and that and pressure is building from the inside.  Gangs of angry people are being told it's okay to burn, destroy and steal, just to let off a little steam.

We have a society where people riot when they don't get what they want. . .and they riot when they DO get what they want. . .and it's all being encouraged. 

In my suggested timeline, January will see Liberal Politicians start their bid for the Presidency.  It will begin to grow and be advertised everywhere you see.  For my family and myself, this will be the Yellow Threat Phase ending sometime mid-2019 and going into Orange until around March of 2020.  From March 2019 to December 2020. . .during the peak of election season, I think we're in for some serious civil unrest.

Up to the election I believe there will be riots, both spontaneous and planned.  In the month before the election, I foresee some of the greatest unrest we have ever seen.  If Trump wins re-election. . .well. . .let's just say that I've already primed our kids to be with us at our rural home.  I can see actions that make the Purge movies look like reruns of the Teletubbies.  If Trump DOESN'T win, I still see unrest, but on a lesser, more "I Told You So" punitive/celebratory set. 

If Trump loses, look for an assault on our rights like  you've never even thought possible.

How does this apply to the questions in this thread?

I still have to go about and do my business.  I'm worried about being caught unaware (no one can remain 100% on 100% of the time, S*** happens, sometimes you find yourself behind the power curve) in a situation like the one video I recently watched where bands of people were roving city streets assaulting cars with their bodies, bats, pipes and barricades.  I'm worried of Reginald Denny-like assaults on me and mine, especially after June of next year.

This is why I'm upscaling my personal defenses and why I'm asking these questions. 

I know we're in a relatively calm situation, right now.  There are no real threats to our 2A rights and things seem to be going better than they have been.  Doomsday Preppers is no longer on TV or in the general public/preppers' minds.  Most Conservatives and non-Liberals are feeling pretty good, right now.

I'm afraid that will change.  Within a year, expect to see gun and ammo prices rise.  Within 16-18 months, I expect it to look like May 2012 to December 2013 in the prepper world.  Guns will be hard to find at decent prices and no ammo will be on the shelves with what I fear will be a true and real threat to individuals, as a whole.

That's it, in a rather large nutshell.

The Professor

The Professor:

--- Quote from: archer on July 23, 2018, 02:55:52 PM ---Just curious, how accurate are you with an AR style pistol? The people i've seen at the range using them can barely put all their shots on paper @ 10 yrds. Sounds like you know that size/style and feel comfortable in a SHTF scenario.

--- End quote ---

Well, quite good, especially considering that these pistols are legal variants of the legally-stamped SBR's my wife and I have been shooting for the past two years in 3-gun and "Tactical" matches.

The only real difference is that these are on inexpensive, virgin receivers with comparatively cheap parts.  Anderson Lowers and uppers, budget BCG and barrels, MagPul furniture and relatively inexpensive optics.  If they're stolen or seized, my pocketbook won't cringe as much as if they had been AAC variants.

The Professor

The Professor:

--- Quote from: Alan Georges on July 23, 2018, 07:08:42 PM ---The biggest problem I have with the pistol-with-a-"brace" concept is that their legality is on very thin ice.  I know that there have been several ATF letters, findings, etc. saying things are hunky-dory if you just happen to shoulder one in the heat of the moment, but it takes one change of administrative ruling plus one youtube video you didn't know was being made, and boom, you're in possession of an unpapered SBR.

But it's a great idea for a "more than your Glock" car gun.  They are accurate when shouldered, and have all the other things you mentioned going for them.  Legally though, they just scare the hell out of me.  That's about the only reason I haven't gone this way.

--- End quote ---

As of right now, the ATF states that shouldering an AR Pistol originally built as a pistol does not alter the intent or design of the weapon.  A copy of that letter, as long as it's the latest, is in the bag with each of the pistols along with copies of the letters from ATF to Gear Head Works specifically recognizing their Tailhook 2, my preferred brace installed on each of them.

I'll continue this in the next response.

The Professor

I love the idea of an AR vehicle gun. I have this, , in my truck right now. Cheap and easy to replace yet reliable. I would stick to the birdcage flash suppressor. The AR pistol is damn loud and nothing will mitigate that except a sound suppressor. I dont "secure" mine in anything because I believe if you really need it a "Safe" or other locking mechanism will slow you down. Its locked in my truck and that good enough for me. I carry 2, 30 round mags and a bag of loose rounds with it. If you carry the gun with the ammo make sure you have your CCW and know your State's vehicle laws.

The Professor:

--- Quote from: David in MN on July 24, 2018, 07:48:50 AM ---A lot of this depends on usage. If you plan to shoot from the vehicle I would take any noise reducer possible. I can't imagine shooting an AR pistol in a car.

I would also keep it simple. If you attach a bunch of crap you'll lose mobility in a tight space.
--- End quote ---

That's where I was leaning.  I'm wanting a legal, compact, and hard-hitting defensive weapon that can be used in tight spaces and hidden much easier if forced to go extravehicular than a larger rifle without having the headache of a Tax Stamp.

--- Quote ---I, like Alan, fear the AR pistol. From my perspective it immediately negates all my work with an AR as I will immediately put my left hand over the muzzle (assuming I accidentally shouldered it). It would take lots of training to overcome this and that would be illegal. Beyond that, even if you stay on the legal side it only takes one cop who doesn't know the law at the range to ruin your day and cost you thousands.

--- End quote ---

As mentioned before, these are pistol variants of a size similar to a pair of legally-stamped SBR's with which we've been practicing for about 18 months.  Before we even entered any competitions, we did a lot of dry-runs and muscle-memory drills to instill in us the necessary physical skills.   For example, when moving your support hand to the handguard, we sweep inwards and upwards towards an angled foregrip which is behind the forward mount of the two-point sling.  And yes, we did start out shooting drills wearing Nomex pilot's gloves.  And Yes, we grabbed a hot can once or twice, accidentally.  Just as with everything else, it takes practice. . .something we are going to increase as time draws near.

As to the "one cop" issue:

I wrestled with this for longer than I probably should have. I am extremely lucky in that I now have a gun-nut A**h*** attorney as a friend as well as not one, but TWO of the "Shooter's Insurance" policies on both my wife and I.

Here's the thing as I've come to embrace it: A municipal, county or state law enforcement officer cannot arrest you on a Federal Firearms Violation.  They can generally do so for state-level violations, though, so you do need to be aware of your city/county/state laws as it pertains to these types of weapons.  Any arrest where your rights are violated will be a major inconvenience.  No one wants to share a holding cell with a hairy-backed guy nick-named "Sweet Meat."  In these cases, a good attorney not only will be able to get you out of jail, but be able to see to it that the settlement from the resulting lawsuit will most likely pay for your kid's education (or their student loan debt).  That's why I keep the copies of the most recent ATF letters in our bags.

That's right now, however. If the decision changes, I'll have to comply and go another way.   As long as the law allows this, however, I will have a fully legal and ATF-compliant AR pistol to fall back on if I need it.

--- Quote ---I unfortunately agree. We have had what seem like violent mobs of every possible cause imaginable instantly erupt and do things like block freeways and throw rocks at pedestrians. My wife and I have a "no-go" map of Minneapolis and as we track news it grows. Things have actually cooled off this summer (not typical) but a couple bad events and things could get real bad real quick.

--- End quote ---

That is my fear, one that is growing day by day.  I wish I could find a link to the gas riot video from Haiti a month or so ago.  Groups were roaming the streets attacking drivers (as if they had anything to do with the skyrocketing gas prices) and attempting to pull them from their vehicles.

With the common use of social media and ever-present cell phones, it's not unimaginable to think that Flash Mobs could easily pop up where I go.

I'm too young to die and too old to get the s*** beaten out of me.  If either situation rears it's head, I intend to fight under the "Tried by Twelve" rules, especially if my family is with me.

The adage of "It can't happen here" is becoming more and more of a hope than a rule.

The Professor


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