Getting in to Archery

[jeremya]

My wife and I went to the Texas Parks and Wildlife Expo last weekend. We got to try our hand at shooting some compound bows and really enjoyed it, but having no real prior experience I am not sure where to start learning about it. We aren't really, at this point, interested in hunting.

Any suggestions?

-- Jeremy

[DeltaEchoVictor]

Jeremy I'll try to find you some links to compound bow related material.  It may take a day or two though, so bear with me brother.

[jeremya]

Cool! Take your time... no real rush.

Thanks,

Jeremy

[DeltaEchoVictor]

Hunter's Friend  Looks like a great page to start.  I read quite a bit and it's geared towards the compound shooter & offers recommendations on type & variations of equipment.  This looks like a good place to gather archery information & how & why bows work in general.

Heh, I looked thru my archery bookmarks to see if there was anything in there that I could point you towards for compounds, nothing man, I got nothing.  I'm going to have to do some digging & see if I can find you a forum or two so you can ask some questions.  Ask lots of questions before you buy anything & don't get caught up in the brand war debates.  There are lots of good bows out there that you don't have to go in debt over.

[Sister Wolf]

Jeremy!  Hey, have you checked out your local archery shops?  You might be pleasantly surprised at their helpfulness there.  A decent archery shop will have a range as well, and at least one instructor's phone number posted somewhere.  Our local instructor charges $17 an hour (that's, what, 4 cups of coffee, and a tip? not bad!), and that includes a bow rental if you need one.  Check your local areas and see what you come up with!

[Texasbound]

I'm also just getting in the archery.  I have an older compound bow.  Took it to the local shop and had it adjusted and tuned up.  What I need to know is what sort of target distances I should start with, and what should I hope to achieve?  I'm just working on accuracy and consistency right now.  Trying to get a good feel for the bow and make some sort of improvements.  What is the maximum realistic range on a compound bow?

[UnderTheRadar]

Hey, have you checked out your local archery shops?

+1 Sister Wolf

I ran an archery pro shop while I was going to college at night for four years, and the people who work there do it because it is their passion (the pay stinks).  The shop pro was a great guy,  trained everyone on the sales team, and selected inventory.  Shop around and find someone with knowledge and a good attitude.  There is a lot of knowledge required to fit a bow to a customer.  You usually have to correct a lot of their bad habits before you can even take good measurements.  I usually saved the customer a lot of grief and at least $100 by setting them up with a good package deal and fitting everything properly.

Every customer is unique and you can save time by having thought through why you want a bow and how much you want to spend before you shop.  Example: "I don't like the idea of treestands and plan to stalk.  I don't trust mechanical releases and like the idea of using my fingers.  I have $300."  I would set this person up with a light weight (physical weight, not draw weight) bow because they will carry it a lot, and keep the sights compact and avoid a stabilizer to keep it from snagging on branches.  I would also recommend a longer bow because the short ones pinch your fingers and are less forgiving for a sloppy finger release.

Watch out for know-it-all blowhards who pretend their store is a pro shop.  The person you select should have trophies (wall trophy or game trophy) and a good attitude.

UnderTheRadar

[UnderTheRadar]

What I need to know is what sort of target distances I should start with, and what should I hope to achieve?

No more than 20 yards.  Focus on tightening your groups before moving out to longer ranges.  Also, consider lightening up the draw weight until your muscles build up.  After four years in a pro shop I could draw 100 lbs, but you have to start small.  (I kept one around to deflate the body builders that came in.  Not to be mean, but to get past the testosterone so they would listen)

What is the maximum realistic range on a compound bow?

The local outdoor range had a 100 yard target, and the really talented people could shoot about an 8" group (not me).  But not with a bow like yours or mine.  It took an 80lb draw on a short fast bow with radical cams, overdraw, mechanical release, Kevlar bowstrings and cables, 36" stabilizer, carbon arrows, and a ton of practice.

In the Olympics the winners shoot about the same size group at 70 meters with recurves and finger release.

You can expect to get good performance out to 60 yards with practice, and have a reliable large game hunting range out to 40 yards.  "Buck fever" reduces your accurate range until you have shot a lot of animals.

UnderTheRadar

[Texasbound]

Thank you, I haven't been able to find anyone to give me any guidelines on distances so far.  This will give me somewhere to start.

[khristopher23]

Our local instructor charges $17 an hour (that's, what, 4 cups of coffee, and a tip? not bad!

Damn girl, where are you buying your coffee at? Racetrac gas stations have it for about $1 a cup, no tip necessary!

Archery is something I am also interested in, especially the recurve side. I've noticed a lot of good deals on e bay for bows, any advice on what to look for?

[UnderTheRadar]

I've noticed a lot of good deals on e bay for bows, any advice on what to look for?

Recurves:

Look for limb twist.  Many old bows have it, and you don't want it.  Have them send a photo looking down from the top so you can see both tips and the riser, and tell if the tips are aligned with the center line of the riser.

Have them string up the bow and send photos of the upper and lower tiller using a bow square.  Many old bows have a limb that has weakened and you can tell if the measurements are off by more that 1/4 inch or so.

Get good close up shots of both limbs from every angle and look for cracks and fiberglass fatigue.

Get a photo with the bow on a bow scale at your draw length.  This shows draw weight and proves is can be safely drawn.

9 out of 10 craigslist and ebay recurves are junk.  You really have to be careful.  Buy local if you can so you can test fire it.  Wear safety glasses each time; I have had a limb explode and sometimes bits of epoxy and fiberglass come off.

Take-down recurves tend to be stored with the limbs off to save space.  This reduces opportunities for damage.

Compounds:

Draw length needs to fit you.  Most are adjustable, but many require a special part that you replace on the cam.  Don't count on finding these for older bows.  Draw weight and tiller is adjustable so you don't need to worry about that as much.  The limbs are less fragile than recurves but get good photos anyway.  Watch for stripped threads on the sight mount and stabilizer holes.  Look for damage on the cables.

UnderTheRadar

[ebonearth]

Also check when the 'shoot all You Want' specials are going on. My local archery shop in NYC has great deals and even better atmosphere. From their website:

At a cost of only $13.00 per adult, $5.00 if your under 16 or over 65 one can shoot from opening to closing " a real bargain". Open seven days a week; Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and Friday from 6:30 pm to 11:00 pm; Wednesday from 2:00 pm to 11:00 pm; Saturday and Sunday from 1:00 pm to 5:00 pm. For archery aficionado's, special shooting packages are available which result in additional savings off regular range fees.

[DeltaEchoVictor]

Archery is something I am also interested in, especially the recurve side. I've noticed a lot of good deals on e bay for bows, any advice on what to look for?

There are a lot of good deals on ebay to be had.  You do need to be careful, but it's not because 9 out of 10 bows bought on ebay & craigslist are junk....that's simply not true.  

You do need to ask some basic questions before you buy a bow off ebay, but most of the people who move a lot of vintage type archery gear will answer those questions for you in the description.  They know what the concerns are & will describe the bow adequately enough to allay any fears you may have.  Sure there are scumbags on ebay, & there are also people who know nothing about the bows they're selling, those are the ones to avoid & they're fairly easy to spot.  I've bought many bows off ebay & only ended up with one bow that wasn't usable & that was my fault.  I have a 32" draw & I bought a short 52" Browning recurve to use out of a ground blind, I was way overdrawing the bow & popped a limb lamination.  The delamination can be fixed, but it's not something I've done yet.  The picture below is of the delamination, it's the dark gap in the limb.  Avoid bows that say delaminated....again, the bow was fine when I bought it.  I actually damaged it, not the seller.


In general, look for sellers who've sold several bows.  Just do a general search for "Bear Recurve" or "Pearson Recurve" or "Vintage Recurve", something along those lines.  Then look back thru the sellers ratings.  Read the entries from buyers of their other bows & see what the consensus is. 

Limb twist isn't a big deal for me.  If it says slight twist or minor limb twist, something along those lines the twist isn't typically enough to not take advantage of a good deal.  Most limb twist (98% I'd estimate) that is minor can be straightened out easily.  Obviously it's a case by case basis, but I've yet to buy a bow off ebay with a minor twist that I couldn't easily fix.  Most minor twists aren't enough to throw the bows cast off anyway, major twists or limb damage is a different issue entirely.

95% of vintage bows will have lines in the fiberglass, that's fine.  They aren't structural defects, they aren't cracks per se.  Constant flexing & compression causes these striations, what some people call crazing & it's normal in bows that are many years old.  Bows can be refinished easily with fine sandpaper & wipe on polyurethane.  I've done it many times.

If you should see something on ebay & are wondering about it, shoot me a PM with a link to the auction & I'd be happy to take a look.

Here are some of my bows.
Bear Alaskan longbow (an Ebay bow), it's over 50 years old.  I refinished it & carry it in the woods regularly.
 

A Bear 76'er.  Made in 1976 & a highly underrated little take down recurve, it was red, white & blue.  I camo'd it & put on a tennis racket grip to get my hand off the cold magnesium riser.  This is my other "go to" bow & it's highly accurate.  I was shooting black birds with it just the other day.   Also, this bow has a slight twist to it's upper limb.


Three of my other Bears.

[UnderTheRadar]

.......... not because 9 out of 10 bows bought on ebay & craigslist are junk....that's simply not true.

My opinion is based on four years of people bringing in "great deals" on used recurves they just bought that would not survive a draw weight test.  Eventually I refused to string them, and had a release form to sign before they went on the scale.

The worst were the ones made in highschool wood shop.

It has been nearly 20 years since I was in the business, perhaps materials and production methods have improved reliability.

I'm not sure about asking a novice to take on limb straightening.

I like your flemish twist string; not too many people know how to make those any more.

UnderTheRadar

[DeltaEchoVictor]

My opinion is based on four years of people bringing in "great deals" on used recurves they just bought that would not survive a draw weight test.  Eventually I refused to string them, and had a release form to sign before they went on the scale.

I'm not discounting that you've seen bad bows, but if 1000 bows were being sold on ebay that would mean 900 of them were junk.  It's an exaggeration IMHO & not something I've experienced in all the bow trading I've done.  A correct draw weight test done on a recurve or longbow is a vastly different animal than one done on a compound, ya can't just throw it up on the scale & give it a pull.  Especially if the bow being tested hasn't been drawn regularly or shot in many years.  None of the compound shops in my area are well versed in traditional equipment, that I know from my own experience, YMMV obviously.  No doubt some of the problem stemmed from bow buyers not knowing what they were doing either, I'm sure. 

The worst were the ones made in highschool wood shop.

No doubt, buying a second hand novice built bow is always a bad idea.  God forbid if it's been sitting out in the garage for a few years.  That's a bad time waiting to happen.  I'm talking about vintage (20 to 50 year old) bows that were made by some of archery's greats....Bear, Pearson, Wing, etc.  Those bows that were made with modern (for the time) materials are still very reliable & can be had at great prices, if one knows what to look for.  My oldest hunting bow is 50+ years old & still going strong.  It was ugly as sin when I bought it off ebay, but it was structurally sound & just needed some TLC.

It has been nearly 20 years since I was in the business, perhaps materials and production methods have improved reliability.

I'd argue the older Bears, which I'm a fan, of are more reliable because of the attention to detail that was paid to the vintage bows.  Bear's QC has gone in the crapper in the last 10 or so years.  It's like anything else though, there are good ones & there are bad ones from any manufacturer.  The modern custom bow makers though have the market cornered on QC IMO.  Production bows can't compare these days, or very rarely anyway.  Check out Black Swan Archery for some high tech built recurves & longbows.  I'd love to have one but there's no way I'm dropping $1,000 on a bow.

I'm not sure about asking a novice to take on limb straightening.

Heck, ya gotta start somewhere.  There's enough information on the webz to make it an easy proposition these days.  Of course it all depends on how bad the twist is.  I hadn't straightened one either, until I did my first one.  Like I said, a minor twist isn't enough to turn me off of a good deal, but it's going to depend on the bow seller's knowledge base.  That's why I suggested sticking with auctioners that had an established reputation & knew what they were describing.   No way would I buy one from someone that had never sold a bow before....with one caveat, like you said, they'd have to have a ton of pictures from the various angles, so I could get a good idea of the bow's condition.

I like your flemish twist string; not too many people know how to make those any more.

Thanks.  All my shooters sport flemish strings these days.  The only one that doesn't is the 76'er & that's only because I actually had a couple of endless loop strings already that would fit it.  I prefer the flemish twist myself.

[khristopher23]

I appreciate the advice DEV. Those are some beautiful recurves you have. BTW, I drool over your gransfors, I gotta get me one of those!