Virus accidentally released from lab ?

[iam4liberty]

https://www.wionews.com/opinions-blogs/explained-scientific-indications-that-show-covid-19-is-man-made-298868/amp
Explained: Scientific indications that show COVID-19 is man-made

The Chinese Communist Party (CCP), some Western scientists sympathetic to China and the obsequious media have expended enormous efforts to convince the public that the COVID-19 pandemic is a naturally-occurring outbreak of disease.

Included in that effort are restrictions imposed by the Chinese government on academic research related to the origins of COVID-19, in what is likely part of a wider attempt to control the narrative surrounding the origin of the pandemic.

There are now rumours swirling within the global scientific community that Western professional journals are submitting to pressure from Beijing and refusing to publish data that do not conform to the naturally-occurring interpretation of the origin of COVID-19.
...
There is additional information now being discussed on virology blogs indicating that COVID-19 is not naturally-occurring because its differential ratio of synonymous to non-synonymous substitution is vastly different compared to that which occurs in nature among bat populations as well as natural factors that would select against the presence of a furin polybasic cleavage site.

China’s ongoing propaganda campaign and its associated Western censorship will not stop honest scientific inquiry from discovering the true origin of COVID-19.

[iam4liberty]

After months of claiming they had no live strains of bat coronavirus, the Wuhan Lab finally admitted they did when internal workers (probably one of the expelled French scientists) leaked the info.  Now they are claiming that the strains, which until a few days ago supposedly didnt exist, werent a match but will neither allow anyone to look at the records or talk to the staff involved. 

So, if they didnt have the live viruses there until after the outbreak, how did they conduct all the research the US taxpayer spent millions on?  What do you say, Mr. Bill?  How did they do those animal passage studies without live viruses?

https://nypost.com/2020/05/24/wuhan-lab-admits-to-having-three-live-strains-of-bat-coronavirus/amp/
Wuhan lab admits to having three live strains of bat coronavirus on site

[Mr. Bill]

What do you say, Mr. Bill?

I'm tied up with personal issues and don't have time to look into this right now.

I did run across this article yesterday, but it's Chinese-funded research so you can ignore it:

Close Genetic Relative of SARS-CoV-2 Found in Bats Offers More Evidence It Evolved Naturally

...Recently, in the journal Current Biology, researchers describe a recently identified bat coronavirus that is SARS-CoV-2’s closest relative in some regions of the genome and which contains insertions of amino acids at the junction of the S1 and S2 subunits of the virus’s spike protein in a manner similar to SAR-CoV-2. While it’s not a direct evolutionary precursor of SARS-CoV-2, this new virus, RmYN02, suggests that these types of seemingly unusual insertion events can occur naturally in coronavirus evolution, the researchers say.

“Since the discovery of SARS-CoV-2 there have been a number of unfounded suggestions that the virus has a laboratory origin,” says senior author Weifeng Shi, director and professor at the Institute of Pathogen Biology at Shandong First Medical University in China. “In particular, it has been proposed the S1/S2 insertion is highly unusual and perhaps indicative of laboratory manipulation. Our paper shows very clearly that these events occur naturally in wildlife. This provides strong evidence against SARS-CoV-2 being a laboratory escape.” ...

[Morning Sunshine]

So, if they didnt have the live viruses there until after the outbreak, how did they conduct all the research the US taxpayer spent millions on?  What do you say, Mr. Bill?  How did they do those animal passage studies without live viruses?

but it's Chinese-funded research so you can ignore it:

not a mod here, and I know that this issue is divisive, but let's keep our discussion civil?  I am learning a lot from both of you, and I suspect you are both as well.  A healthy debate is good, but I feel you guys are starting to get personally involved and emotions are starting to get involved.  I would hate for this informative discussion to get shut down and we all loose out on the experience you both bring to this forum

and maybe I am reading too much into this.  Online text-only communication is - at best - only 50% of good communication.

[Mr. Bill]

not a mod here, and I know that this issue is divisive, but let's keep our discussion civil?

You're right.  I apologize.

I've got too much stuff going on in my personal life (mostly involving parents who are 96 and 94), and I'm letting my mood affect my posts here.  Sorry.

With regard to coronavirus, although I want to know how it originated, my major concern right now is not getting infected and carrying the virus to vulnerable family members.

[FreeLancer]

With regard to coronavirus, although I want to know how it originated, my major concern right now is not getting infected and carrying the virus to vulnerable family members.

As we all should.

[iam4liberty]

You're right.  I apologize.

I've got too much stuff going on in my personal life (mostly involving parents who are 96 and 94), and I'm letting my mood affect my posts here.  Sorry.

Hope things sort out ok for you.  It was my bad, not yours.  I was going for a little friendly ribbing but obviously went over the line.  So please accept my apology.

And thank you Morning Sunshine for the intervention.

[iam4liberty]

EU and France knew about the problems at lab but failed to act. France now admits that their entire oversight group of 50 lab experts were denied access by China to the lab prior to the incident in violation of their agreement.  So not only were the handful of French contractors expelled who warned that a leak was imminent given China cutting corners, but there were no experienced lab technicians present.  French intelligence worried they just handed over their expertise to China to potentially be used for bioweapon development.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8351113/Wuhan-virus-lab-signed-Michel-Barnier-2004-despite-French-intelligence-warnings.html
Wuhan virus lab was signed off by EU Brexit chief Michel Barnier in 2004 - despite French intelligence warnings that China's poor bio-security reputation could lead to a catastrophic leak

The construction of the Chinese laboratory at the centre of mounting suspicion over the source of the Covid-19 pandemic was signed off by the EU’s chief Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier – despite warnings by French intelligence services.

Mr Barnier – currently embroiled in acrimonious negotiations with the UK over a post-Brexit trade deal – was the French foreign minister when he gave the go-ahead for work to start on the Wuhan Institute of Virology in 2004, under a joint deal with the Chinese.

The move came despite strong opposition from French diplomatic and security advisers, who argued that the Chinese reputation for poor bio-security could lead to a catastrophic leak.

They also warned that Paris could lose control of the project, and even suggested that Beijing could harness the technology to make biowarfare weapons.

Eleven years later, as the laboratory prepared to open, the French architects of the project complained that they had, as feared, been ousted by the Chinese communist government.
...
The site was carrying out research on coronaviruses when the outbreak started in the city last November.

A growing number of scientific and security experts are now questioning the Chinese government’s insistence that the virus originated in a wildlife market in Wuhan, with Beijing’s refusal to allow an international investigation only adding to the growing suspicions.
...
Last week, The Mail on Sunday revealed that experts now believe the coronavirus was taken into the market by someone already carrying the disease.

Biologists who carried out a landmark study say they were ‘surprised’ to find the virus was ‘already pre-adapted to human transmission’.

Jacques Chirac, the French president at the time of the deal, pushed for the Wuhan institute to be set up after the 2003 SARS outbreak, which affected 26 countries and resulted in more than 8,000 cases and 774 deaths. Mr Chirac, along with his pro-Beijing prime minister Jean-Pierre Raffarin, promised French funding and expertise in return for a share of the intellectual copyright on the lab’s discoveries.
...
According to a report in France’s Le Figaro newspaper, institutions such as the General Directorate for External Security, the French equivalent of MI6, expressed repeated concern at the lack of international control over Chinese laboratories and issues with ‘transparency’.

A source told the newspaper: ‘What you have to understand is that a P4 [high-level bio-security] laboratory is like a nuclear reprocessing plant. It’s a bacteriological atomic bomb.

‘The viruses that are tested are extremely dangerous – diving suits, decontamination airlocks etc must be followed to the letter.’

As part of the deal, up to 50 French scientists were expected to travel to Wuhan to help the Chinese run the laboratory properly – but they never went.
...
Alain Merieux, the French billionaire who was instrumental in setting up the Wuhan laboratory in partnership with his Institut Merieux in Lyons, abandoned the project in 2015, saying: ‘I am giving up the co-chairmanship of [the] P4 [laboratory], a Chinese tool. It belongs to them, even if it was developed with technical assistance from France.’

According to Le Figaro, a diplomat with a close knowledge of the deal added: ‘We knew the risks involved and thought that the Chinese would control everything and quickly eject us from the project.

‘We believed that providing this cutting-edge technology to a country with an endless power agenda would risk exposing France in return.’

Their fears were compounded in 2015 when China implemented a new policy of ‘dual use’ technologies, which allows their armed forces to use any civilian technology for military purposes.

The Wuhan institute became operational in January 2018, and coincided with a visit to Beijing by current French president Emmanuel Macron and Mr Raffarin, who was made a ‘special envoy to China.
...
Petrovsky, professor of medicine at Flinders University in Adelaide, runs a biotech research unit that will start human trials for a Covid-19 vaccine next month.

‘I haven’t seen a zoonotic virus that has behaved in this way before,’ he said.
...
He told The Mail on Sunday that new viruses crossing over from animals normally strengthen as they adapt to human hosts, but for unexplained reasons, this new coronavirus seems perfectly adapted to infect humans without the need to evolve.

He pointed to the ‘coincidence’ that the most closely related known viruses were being studied in a laboratory in Wuhan, the Chinese city where the pandemic erupted, and insisted that the possibility of a leak, however remote, should not be ignored in the search for its origin.

‘The implications may not be good for scientists or global politics, but just because the answers might cause problems, we can’t run away from them,’
...
Prof Petrovsky has gone further than any other expert in raising the idea that the virus escaped from one of two laboratories researching bat viruses in Wuhan.

Richard Ebright, one of the world’s top biosecurity experts, also told this newspaper that the odds of this new virus containing such unusual features and occurring naturally were ‘possible – but improbable’.
...
Last week, the MoS revealed details of a key study challenging China’s claims that the pandemic emerged from a Wuhan animal market in December. The researchers were ‘surprised’ to find the virus ‘already pre-adapted to human transmission’, contrasting its stability with another coronavirus that evolved rapidly as it spread around the planet during the 2002-04 SARS epidemic. Their findings are backed by the Australian team’s study into the ‘spike protein’ that binds Sars-CoV-2 – the new strain of coronavirus that causes disease – to cells in human bodies. The research, posted on Cornell University’s website but not yet peer-reviewed, used computer modelling to test the spike protein’s ability to bind to humans and 12 possible animal hosts.

It found the ability to bind to human cells far exceeded its ability in other species. ‘This indicates Sars-CoV-2 is a highly adapted human pathogen,’ it said, ‘raising questions as to whether it arose in nature by a rare chance event or whether its origins lie elsewhere.’
...
This is either a remarkable coincidence or a sign of human intervention,’ he said. ‘It is possible the virus was a fluke event and it turns out humans were the perfect host.

‘But we don’t have evidence for this because no one has found this virus in an intermediate host animal [for example pangolin] yet.

‘No one can say a laboratory leak is not a possibility.’

He claimed that scientists were reluctant to discuss the possibility of botched lab experiments or leaks since any backlash could lead to research restrictions and threaten crucial research. However, he added, it was vital to discover the source of the virus.

Prof Petrovsky said that if Sars-CoV-2 was a natural event, another related virus could erupt again from the same source with even more devastating consequences. ‘Next time, it could have far worse mortality rates,’ he warned.

He also highlighted the ‘furin cleavage site’, which allows the spike protein to bind to cells in human tissues including the lungs, liver and small intestines.
...
Previous studies have noted the efficiency of this cleavage method, which does not exist in the most similar coronaviruses – although researchers in 2009 modified the SARS virus to introduce a furin cleavage site in a similar position to Sars-CoV-2 and found this increased the infectivity of the virus.

In the latest study published on Friday, three German scientists highlighted how this cleavage site was essential for the infection of human lung cells. One US expert in biomedical sciences, who did not wish to be named, said there was no direct evidence to support the idea that the virus was engineered or leaked from a lab, although ‘the location of the acquired furin mutation is quite surprising’.

Another leading research scientist said a member of his team ‘went a bit pale when he looked at this’.

A paper earlier this year by Yong-Zhen Zhang, the Chinese diseases expert who published the first genome sequence for Sars-CoV-2, said this was ‘arguably the most important’ difference between the new virus and its closest known relative, which was derived from a bat by Wuhan researchers.

[iam4liberty]

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/coronavirus/bombshell-dossier-lays-out-case-against-chinese-bat-virus-program/news-story/55add857058731c9c71c0e96ad17da60
Coronavirus NSW: Dossier lays out case against China bat virus program

China deliberately suppressed or destroyed evidence of the coronavirus outbreak in an “assault on international transparency’’ that cost tens of thousands of lives, according to a dossier prepared by concerned Western governments on the COVID-19 contagion.

The 15-page research document, obtained by The Saturday Telegraph, lays the foundation for the case of negligence being mounted against China.

It states that to the “endangerment of other countries” the Chinese government covered-up news of the virus by silencing or “disappearing” doctors who spoke out, destroying evidence of it in laboratories and refusing to provide live samples to international scientists who were working on a vaccine.

It can also be revealed the Australian government trained and funded a team of Chinese scientists who belong to a laboratory which went on to genetically modify deadly coronaviruses that could be transmitted from bats to humans and had no cure, and is now the subject of a probe into the origins of COVID-19.

As intelligence agencies investigate whether the virus inadvertently leaked from a Wuhan laboratory, the team and its research led by scientist Shi Zhengli feature in the dossier prepared by Western governments that points to several studies they conducted as areas of concern.

It cites their work discovering samples of coronavirus from a cave in the Yunnan province with striking genetic similarity to COVID-19, along with their research synthesising a bat-derived coronavirus that could not be treated.

Its major themes include the “deadly denial of human-to-human transmission”, the silencing or “disappearing” of doctors and scientists who spoke out, the destruction of evidence of the virus from genomic studies laboratories, and “bleaching of wildlife market stalls”, along with the refusal to provide live virus samples to international scientists working on a vaccine.
...
RISKY BAT RESEARCH
In Wuhan, in China’s Hubei province, not far from the now infamous Wuhan wet market, Dr Shi and her team work in high-protective gear in level-three and level-four bio-containment laboratories studying deadly bat-derived coronaviruses.

At least one of the ­estimated 50 virus samples Dr Shi has in her laboratory is a 96 per cent genetic match to COVID-19. When Dr Shi heard the news about the outbreak of a new ­pneumonia-like virus, she spoke about the sleepless nights she suffered worrying whether it was her lab that was responsible for the outbreak.
...
The US’s position, according to reports this week, is that it is more likely the virus leaked from a laboratory
...
Dr Shi’s protégé, Peng Zhou — now the head of the Bat Virus Infection and Immunity Project at the Wuhan Institute of Virology — spent three years at the bio-containment facility Australian Animal Health Laboratory between 2011 and 2014. He was sent by China to complete his doctorate at the CSIRO from 2009-2010.

During this time, Dr Zhou arranged for wild-caught bats to be transported alive by air from Queensland to the lab in Victoria where they were euthanised for dissection and studied for deadly viruses.

Dr Linfa Wang, while an Honorary Professor of the Wuhan Institute of Virology between 2005 and 2011, also worked in the CSIRO Office of the Chief Executive Science Leader in Virology between 2008 and 2011.

Federal Liberal Senator Sarah Henderson said it was “very concerning” that Chinese scientists had been conducting research into bat viruses at the CSIRO in Geelong, Victoria, in jointly funded projects between the Australian and Chinese governments.

“We need to exercise extreme care with any research projects involving foreign nationals which may compromise our national security or biosecurity,” she said...
...
CHINA’S COVER-UP OF EARLY SAMPLES
The paper obtained by The Saturday Telegraph speaks about “the suppression and destruction of evidence” and points to “virus samples ordered destroyed at genomics labs, wildlife market stalls bleached, the genome sequence not shared publicly, the Shanghai lab closure for ‘rectification’, academic articles subjected to prior review by the Ministry of Science and Technology and data on asymptomatic ‘silent carriers’ kept secret”.

It paints a picture of how the Chinese government deliberately covered up the coronavirus by silencing doctors who spoke out, destroying evidence from the Wuhan laboratory and refusing to provide live virus samples to international scientists working on a vaccine.

The US, along with other countries, has repeatedly ­demanded a live virus sample from the first batch of coronavirus cases. This is understood to have not been forthcoming despite its vital importance in developing a vaccine while potentially providing an indication of where the virus originated.

THE LAB WORKER WHO DISAPPEARED
Out of all the doctors, activists, journalists and scientists who have reportedly disappeared after speaking out about the coronavirus or criticising the response of Chinese authorities, no case is more intriguing and worrying than that of Huang Yan Ling.

A researcher at the Wuhan Institute of Virology, the South China Morning Post reported rumours swirling on Chinese social media that she was the first to be diagnosed with the disease and was ­“patient zero”.

Then came her reported disappearance, with her biography and image deleted from the Wuhan Institute of Virology’s website.

[iam4liberty]

Could you please secretly Fedex over your deadliest viruses?  We will pay you handsomely in overseas bank accounts.

https://nationalpost.com/news/covid-19-pandemic-wuhan-institute-of-virology-ebola-national-microbiology-laboratory/amp
In mystery investigation of two Canadian scientists, a request for Ebola, henipavirus from the Wuhan lab
.
Xiangguo Qiu was a star at the National Microbiology Laboratory, Canada’s premier disease-research facility.
...
That reputation made it all the more shocking when she and her biologist husband, Keding Cheng, were escorted from the lab last July as internal and RCMP investigations got underway.
...
But a year later, those inquiries have yet to be completed, the two scientists appear still in limbo and the Public Health Agency of Canada, which employs them, has revealed another link between the affair and Wuhan, the Chinese city that several months later became the likely source of the COVID-19 pandemic.

A shipment of Ebola and henipavirus samples to China, previously disclosed by the agency and first reported by the National Post, was requested specifically by the Wuhan Institute of Virology, said Eric Morrissette, an agency spokesman. The institute runs the country’s lone BSL-4 disease lab, similar to the Winnipeg-based NML and the highest-security facility for handling pathogens.
...
Qiu helped train staff at the Wuhan lab, among several trips she took to her native China in recent years.
...
“They have told the staff nothing, other than a ridiculous order last summer that we’re not allowed to discuss it or speculate about what may be going on,” said one Public Health Agency employee, not authorized to speak on the record. “Many of us think it is such a huge story that they are trying to keep buried for some pretty serious reasons. We just don’t know what those are.”

[iam4liberty]

Poll results from YouGov Survey
Sample 1500 US Adult citizens
Conducted May 3-5, 2020
Margin of Error ±3.2%

Generally speaking, do you think of yourself as a...?
Democrat.     33%
Republican.   29%
Independent. 28%
Other.                2%
Not sure.          8%

How closely are you following the news about COVID-19?
Very closely                 41%
Somewhat closely      46%
Not very closely          12%
Not following at all.      2%

Do you consider the countries listed below to be an ally or an enemy of the United States?
           Ally.  Friendly.  Unfriendly.  Enemy.  Not sure
China. 4%       13%           38%           28%         17%

Do you think China's handling of the COVID-19 outbreak led to the worldwide pandemic?
Yes           66%
No            14%
Not sure  20%

Do you believe it is true or false that a laboratory in China was the origin of the virus responsible for COVID-19?
Denitely true.    18%
Probably true.   31%
Probably false. 18%
Denitely false.   10%
Not sure             22%

Do you think the U.S. should or should not take some action for the express purpose of punishing China for the COVID-19 pandemic?
Should take some action to punish China                39%
Should not take some action to punish China.        33%
Not sure.                                                                         28%

[FreeLancer]

Reality by referendum.....

[Hurricane]

Do you think the U.S. should or should not take some action for the express purpose of punishing China for the COVID-19 pandemic?
Should take some action to punish China                39%
Should not take some action to punish China.        33%
Not sure.                                                                         28%

Interesting that this is as close as it is, given the other answers. I would have expected more in favor of taking action.

[iam4liberty]

Interesting that this is as close as it is, given the other answers. I would have expected more in favor of taking action.

Well, the US didnt "punish" Russia for Chernobyl.  Most probably just want pressure put on them to make sure it never happens again. 

That is why the pandemic origin deniers' actions are so damaging, they are enabling China to avoid taking responsibility for the leak thereby sabotaging efforts to put in place systems to avoid furture issues.   

From my experience, pretty much everyone in the scientific community just wants China to get onboard with basic safety protocols and ethical norms.  Lab leaks, genetically modifying babies, growing animals with human brains, etc is turning people negative towards science.

Some are worried that research funding is going to be slashed because of this.  Lots of letters are circulating for signatures right now to keep the funds flowing.  it's also why so many arent speaking up, they want it to be handled quietly to avoid losing funders.

On the other hand, imagine how all the scientists in France feel who built the lab but knew the Chinese couldnt run it and this was going to happen.  Or the Canadian scientists who brought on a visiting researcher who was essentially a spy who acquired Ebola samples from them.  Or the family members of those "vanished" in China.  It doesnt seem wise to just let this fade away.

[iam4liberty]

Further background.

https://asiatimes.com/2020/05/the-hazards-of-human-animal-chimera-experiments/
The peril of human-animal chimera experiments
China is viewed as a giant test tube for all kinds of dangerous and ethically controversial research

Recent revelations that the US National Institute of Health (NIH) had been funding gain-of-function (GOF) research in the Wuhan Institute of Virology has shone a spotlight on China’s controversial research in biomedical sciences. 
...
Not only does China engage in GOF research, it also conducts another controversial experiment – creating human-animal chimeras for vaccines and organ transplants. A chimera is an organism whose cells come from two or more “individuals,” and the word comes from Greek mythology, which describes a creature that was part lion, part goat and part snake.

China provides legal loopholes

Because of more stringent regulations of public health and bioethics in the US and other Western countries, American and European scientists tend to outsource GOF and chimeric research to China, where it does not face such restrictions. 

For example, when the Chinese Academy of Science’s Kunming Institute of Zoology created the first human-monkey chimera in July 2019, the project was led by a Spanish scientist, Professor Juan Carlos Izpisua Belmonte
...
China is thus viewed as a dumping ground and giant test tube for all kinds of dangerous and ethically controversial research outlawed by Western countries, similar to how it became a dumping ground for recyclable waste in past decades.

[iam4liberty]

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/executive-order-preventing-online-censorship/
Executive Order on Preventing Online Censorship

Free speech is the bedrock of American democracy.  Our Founding Fathers protected this sacred right with the First Amendment to the Constitution.  The freedom to express and debate ideas is the foundation for all of our rights as a free people.

In a country that has long cherished the freedom of expression, we cannot allow a limited number of online platforms to hand pick the speech that Americans may access and convey on the internet.  This practice is fundamentally un-American and anti-democratic.  When large, powerful social media companies censor opinions with which they disagree, they exercise a dangerous power.  They cease functioning as passive bulletin boards, and ought to be viewed and treated as content creators.
...
Online platforms are engaging in selective censorship that is harming our national discourse.  Tens of thousands of Americans have reported, among other troubling behaviors, online platforms “flagging” content as inappropriate, even though it does not violate any stated terms of service; making unannounced and unexplained changes to company policies that have the effect of disfavoring certain viewpoints; and deleting content and entire accounts with no warning, no rationale, and no recourse.
...
At the same time online platforms are invoking inconsistent, irrational, and groundless justifications to censor or otherwise restrict Americans’ speech here at home, several online platforms are profiting from and promoting the aggression and disinformation spread by foreign governments like China. One United States company, for example, created a search engine for the Chinese Communist Party that would have blacklisted searches for “human rights,” hid data unfavorable to the Chinese Communist Party, and tracked users determined appropriate for surveillance.  It also established research partnerships in China that provide direct benefits to the Chinese military.  Other companies have accepted advertisements paid for by the Chinese government that spread false information about China’s mass imprisonment of religious minorities, thereby enabling these abuses of human rights.  They have also amplified China’s propaganda abroad, including by allowing Chinese government officials to use their platforms to spread misinformation regarding the origins of the COVID-19 pandemic, and to undermine pro-democracy protests in Hong Kong.

[FreeLancer]

Be careful what you wish for.

[iam4liberty]

The story was so absurd even the Chinese CDC has had to abandon it.  They admit virus entered Wuhan market via humans just like Western scientists and intelligence agents have been reporting.  Of course, Americans have a good idea where it came from.  What they still arent admitting, though it was commonly known in Wuhan, is that earliest cases had connections to lab.

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-did-not-jump-wuhan-market-chinese-cdc-says-2020-5?amp
The Chinese CDC now says the coronavirus didn't jump to people at the Wuhan wet market — instead, it was the site of a super-spreader event

Experts still don't know where the new coronavirus came from.
...
Initially, authorities in Wuhan, China, reported that the first cases of the virus emerged at the local Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market. But following an investigation of the animals sold there, the Chinese Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) said this week that it has ruled the site out as the origin point of the outbreak.

According to the Wall Street Journal, Gao Fu, the director of the Chinese CDC, told Chinese state media: "It now turns out that the market is one of the victims."
...
Samples collected from animals at the market came back negative for the new coronavirus, suggesting that they couldn't have infected shoppers.
...
A growing body of research supports the Chinese CDC's conclusion that the outbreak's origins were unrelated to the market. The virus seems to have been circulating in Wuhan before those 41 cases were reported: Research published in January showed that the first person to test positive for the coronavirus was likely exposed to it on December 1, then showed symptoms on December 8. The researchers behind the study also found that 13 of the 41 original cases showed no link to the wet market.

[Mr. Bill]

Be careful what you wish for.

No kidding.

If that Executive Order is not immediately blocked in court, I can't see how we can keep this forum in operation.

[iam4liberty]

No kidding.

If that Executive Order is not immediately blocked in court, I can't see how we can keep this forum in operation.

As long as TSPF acts as a neutral platform there won't be any issue at all.  In fact, BBs are expected to flourish under change.  Now if section 230 ends up being repealed because operators can't restrain from pushing agendas and thwarting free speech,, then that will be a problem.

But this is off topic to the thread. 

[surfivor]

 There is a difference between massive censorship and relatively minor censorship. Someone could argue they are censored on TSP, but the numbers are very small overall. I am not sure about anti trust / monopoly type arguments either

[iam4liberty]

It takes time to purge the data. WHO lied through their teeth about China cooperating.   The communist party never would have released the genetic map if an independent lab hadnt. 

https://nypost.com/2020/06/02/china-delayed-releasing-critical-coronavirus-data-to-who-report/amp/
China reportedly delayed releasing critical coronavirus data to WHO

China delayed releasing critical information about the coronavirus in the weeks after the outbreak was first reported — even as the World Health Organization publicly lauded the Communist country for its quick response to the pandemic, according to a report Tuesday.
...
WHO officials behind the scenes were frustrated that China was slow-walking their ability to get information to combat the spread of the virus, which had first been reported in late December in Wuhan, China, because they were losing valuable time, according to the report.
...
The Chinese Communist Party did not release the genetic map of the virus for more than a week after three government labs had decoded the information, the report said, because of tight controls on releasing data.

The genetic map was finally released after another lab published it on a virologist website on Jan. 11.

It took the Chinese Communist Party another two weeks to provide the WHO with full data on patients and cases, according to recordings of internal meetings by the United Nations health agency.

[Mr. Bill]

https://nypost.com/2020/06/02/china-delayed-releasing-critical-coronavirus-data-to-who-report/amp/
China reportedly delayed releasing critical coronavirus data to WHO

Here is a much more complete version of the story:

AP, 6/2/20: China delayed releasing coronavirus info, frustrating WHO

[iam4liberty]

China has muzzled scientists speaking on origin of virus, blocked the release of basic information which is required under international treaties, and locked down all communications with Wuhan lab staff.  Now they  are adding torism to their economic attacks on Australia.  Let that sink in. They are willing to destroy billions in economic activity and destroy a neutral party just to hide the virus' origin.

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2020-06-05/china-issues-alert-warning-against-travel-to-australia-abc-says
China Issues Australia Travel Warning as Relationship Sours

The warning from Australia’s largest trading partner follows the imposition of tariffs on barley shipments after Prime Minister Scott Morrison led calls for an independent probe into the origins of the coronavirus in Wuhan. Australia is the most China-reliant economy in the developed world, leaving it vulnerable to diplomatic blowback.

Australia’s Minister for Trade, Tourism and Investment Simon Birmingham said the Chinese government’s claims were false, the Australian Broadcasting Corporation reported Saturday.

“We reject China’s assertions in this statement, which have no basis in fact,” he said. “Australia is enjoying world-leading success in suppressing the spread of Covid-19 and, when the health advice allows, we look forward to again welcoming visitors from all backgrounds to our safe and hospitable nation.

[iam4liberty]

https://www.foxnews.com/world/ex-mi6-boss-says-coronavirus-likely-engineered-in-wuhan-lab
Ex-MI6 boss says coronavirus likely engineered in Wuhan lab

A former head of the British intelligence agency MI6 told The Telegraph's Planet Normal podcast that he believes the COVID-19 outbreak was engineered in a lab and spread through coincidence.

"I do think that this started as an accident," Sir Richard Dearlove told the Telegraph, citing a peer-reviewed paper by Professor Angus Dalgleish of St George's Hospital at the University of London, and the Norwegian virologist Birger Sorensen.

The authors said the virus had been doctored to bind to humans: "We are aware that these findings could have political significance and raise troubling questions."

Dearlove added: "[A]s this debate about the virus develops, I think all this material is going to be in print and is going to embarrass a number of people, I think. Let's suggest that the Chinese maybe have too much say in their journals, in what appears and what doesn't."

He added: "Look, the Chinese understand us extremely well. They have made a study of us over the last decade or longer, particularly through attending our universities. We understand the Chinese very poorly. It's an imbalanced relationship in that respect."

[iam4liberty]

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1291862/coronavirus-china-coverup-conspiracy-lab-wuhan-warfare-chemical-covid19-china-new/amp
UK colonel claims he was told virus came from Wuhan lab

Colonel Kemp has claimed a foreign intelligence source told him COVID-19 was a “man-made variation" and there was a "very high probability” that the invisible killer virus was released unintentionally from the Wuhan Institute of Virology.

The senior military and intelligence expert told the Daily Mirror: “I was told then, by a very credible source, that this was ‘highly probable’.

“As with most things in the intelligence world you can rarely say it is absolutely the case but the term ‘highly probable’ means it is very likely to be the case.

“I was also led to believe governments were very unlikely to come out and say it outright, but that China had been made aware that intelligence agencies had significant evidence.
...
"I have known the source for many years and come to trust this person as serious and not given to false claims.

[iam4liberty]

https://amp.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/coronavirus-may-have-been-created-in-a-wuhan-lab-genetic-engineering-experiment/news-story/6e0a211af696fa2f30d5e7306dbf4780
Coronavirus may have been created in a Wuhan lab ‘genetic engineering’ experiment

A growing number of scientists are raising the possibility COVID-19 was created in a laboratory, saying the option cannot be ruled out.

Leading immunologists and geneticists have told Sky News that there are two unusual things about COVID-19 that open the door to it being man-made rather than a naturally-occurring virus.

The first curious characteristic of COVID-19 is that the virus binds to human ACE2 receptor cells more strongly than it does to any other animal, including bats.

The second unusual thing about the virus that causes COVID-19 is that it has what’s called a “furin cleavage site” that its closest genetic bat-coronavirus relative, RaTG-13, does not have.

This site makes it significantly more infectious.

Israeli geneticist, Dr Ronen Shemesh, who is working on a treatment for COVID-19, said in his opinion the virus was more likely created in a laboratory than evolved in nature.

“There are many reasons to believe that the COVID-19 generating SARS-CoV-2 was generated in a lab. Most probably by methods of genetic engineering,” he told Sky News.

“I believe that this is the only way an insertion like the furin protease cleavage site could have been introduced directly at the right place and become effective.”

Dr Shemesh points to the insertion of a furin site as the most unusual aspect of COVID-19.

“I believe that the most important issue about the differences between all coronavirus types is the insertion of a furin protease cleavage site at the spike protein of SARS-CoV-2,” he said.

“Such an insertion is very rare in evolution, the addition of such four amino acids alone in the course of only 20 years is very unlikely.”

Dr Shemesh, who has a PhD in genetics and molecular biology from the Hebrew University in Jerusalem, and over 21 years of experience in the field of drug discovery and development, said it is even “more unlikely” that this insertion happened in exactly the right place of the cleavage site of the spike protein – which is where it would need to occur to make the virus more infectious.

“What makes it even more suspicious is that fact that this insertion not only occurred on the right place and in the right time, but also turned the cleavage site from an serine protease cleavage site to a furin cleavage site,” he said.

[iam4liberty]

Satellite data of traffic at hospitals further confirms timeline of lab leak scenario with cases starting in October.  Outbreak start corresponded directly with shut down of Wuhan lab.. This is in alignment with social media searches of symptoms. 

https://abcnews.go.com/amp/International/satellite-data-suggests-coronavirus-hit-china-earlier-researchers/story?id=71123270
Satellite data suggests coronavirus may have hit China earlier: Researchers
Researchers say surge in cars at hospitals may indicate outbreak in fall.

[iam4liberty]

Yes they do.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/05/covid-19-created-lab-china-has-urgent-questions-answer/amp/
Was Covid-19 created in a lab? China has some urgent questions to answer

[iam4liberty]

Good interview on this important journal article.

https://youtu.be/oiyTrJehvbU
Coronavirus may have been a 'cell-culture experiment' gone wrong