Author Topic: appleseed event preparation  (Read 9623 times)

Offline mountainmoma

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appleseed event preparation
« on: February 17, 2014, 01:17:46 PM »
My daughter and I are going to go to an appleseed event in June, and I have 2 Ruger 10-22's. One we have had a year and used minimally, and one brand new. I also have a couple large boxes of federal ammo.

I dont see well at distance with out my glasses, I need them to drive or watch movies. I bought a scope last yer that I havent mounted yet. Appleseed recommends upgraded metal sights. Question, should I mount the scope for me ? Should my 16yo dd use the stock sights or should I get her the better ones ? Do I have to calibrate or anything the scope ahead of time ?

Is it easy to mount swivel slings on a 10-22 ? The one the sell or another place ?

ANd, what are rcommendations for good ear protection ? While we dont have too much money, I realy dont react too well to alot of noise ( I will deal - we are going)

Any other tips or preparation recommendations ?

Offline Fyrediver

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Re: appleseed event preparation
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2014, 02:10:13 PM »
Excellent choice for your training!  You'll enjoy it and, hopefully, learn a lot!

I help teach at Appleseeds in Washington so I have a bit of experience.

My suggestion: use your scope and upgrade your daughter's rifle to the Tech Sights/No Dak Spuds sights (ghost ring sights).  She should learn how to use the irons first. 

Both the iron sights and the scope should be sighted in prior to the event.  There is time to sight it in during the course but you want to spend more time learning than adjusting.  There really isn't time to spend setting up your rifle during the event, just refining the sighting.

I personally have the NoDak Spud (NDS-26) rear sight with the Tech Sight front sight (with the extended National Match front post).  My scope is mounted on higher see through rings so I can use the irons or my scope.  My scope is primary but I can scrunch down to acquire the irons if it's damaged.  You'll want to buy the tool(s) to adjust whichever sight(s) you choose.

http://www.tech-sights.com/
http://www.nodakspud.com/

Swivels are easy to install.  Just drill into the stock and epoxy them into place.  One must be careful to make them square.  I suggest the standard GI cotton sling so make sure the swivels are wide enough to accept them.

Review the following Appleseed How to Prepare information.  Everything in there is very well thought out.

http://www.appleseedinfo.org/as_prepare.html

Hearing protection:  any good muffs will work -- pick them based on comfort and the NRR (noise reduction rating -- higher number equals greater reduction).  I also use ear plugs with the muffs if I'm near center fire rifles or indoors.  Make sure to get soft, comfortable hearing protection.  The muffs will be on your head and the plugs are stuffed into your ears.  Hard/stiff plugs or muffs aren't very comfortable. Electronics work well and enhance communication in the lulls between shooting but they can get spendy. 

I find the behind the head models work best if I'm wearing a wide brim hat for rain or sun.  The over the head type work well with a baseball cap or bare head. 

Recommendations:
Start stretching.  Being tight in the legs/hips, back, shoulders etc makes it difficult to get into some of the positions.  Trust me on this, I know from personal experience!!
Get some comfortable knee and elbow pads.  Soft ones are fine.  Hard shell elbow pads actually can cause some instability.
Have three magazines each - the standard 10 round rotary are best.  If you don't own them now, get the clear ones.

If you can manage it the "auto bolt release modification" will help quite a bit.

Search the TSP for other posts regarding Appleseed.  There's a lot of information out there from people who've been there and done that.  Perhaps there are people in your area that can help you get set up a head of time.

Offline Roswell

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Re: appleseed event preparation
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2014, 02:19:13 PM »
You're in luck! I'm an Appleseed Instructor myself and happy to help.

First off, congratulations on deciding to attend your first Appleseed and THANK YOU for bringing your daughter and helping to spread the word!

Now, let me see if I can answer your questions...

1) No matter what sights you choose, wear your prescription glasses. (these will also double as your safety glasses).  The main reason we don't recommend the stock sights is that they are very hard to adjust, making doing so basically guesswork. Any scope, as well as the tech sights (i.e. iron sights on Appleseed website) are both easy to adjust and provide a better sight picture. Another reason we recommend the iron sights is because if your scope breaks then you have to use irons and it is pretty hard to break the irons. It has also been said that shooting from iron sights is harder, but a better place to begin learning. Meaning a good Irons shooter can shoot really good with a scope, but not always vice versa.

2) As far as calibrating, try to take both rifles to range and set their zeroes at 25 yards whatever the sights may be.  Also, make sure every screw is tightened down and loctited, other than the ones used to adjust the sights.

3)Yes, it is easy to mount swivel slings on the 10/22.  All you need are swivel studs and they pop right in. If you don't have these, they are easy to install too. http://blog.briangallimore.com/2013/01/20/swivel-studs-for-ruger-1022-with-composite-stock/. If you look around, they also make special studs that hook into the front band on the 10/22, but either way the buttstock will need to be drilled. Also, most sling swivels you see sold are for 1" slings, but Appleseed sells the 1.5" swivel which is what you need to use the GI websling (that we also sell).

4) As far as good ear protection, you should be fine with the cheap little foamies if you are just shooting .22. However, when setting up, ask if you can be put on the side opposite the centerfire rifles (they usually do this anyway). If really concerned you can put the larger headphones over the foam ones.  As long as you can still hear the Instructions. They do make some really nice ear muffs that allow conversations, but mute anything above certain decibels, but they can be pricey.

5) Take a notepad. There is so much instruction that it is often referred to as drinking from a firehose. The notes make it easier to review and just writing them down will help you remember.

6) The most important thing to bring is a teachable attitude! Trust me!

Any questions? :)

Offline Erigorn

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Re: appleseed event preparation
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2014, 06:47:27 PM »
I attended my 1st appleseed last summer and hope to get back this summer.
I too do not have great vision. I bought the TechSights and installed them prior to appleseed (but didn't get sighted in before)
I went through the first day of Appleseed with them on but just couldn't see the targets very clearly.
That night I stole my 3-9x scope off my pellet gun and put it on my 22.
Well it was a frantic morning trying to get that sighted in since time was taken the day prior to get everyone sighted in.
Eventually i did get it sighted in and shot rifleman that day. I was not even close the day before.
But i would do what the others have said. Scope for you 3-4x should be enough. Ring sights for your daughter.
Get them sighted in before hand if at all possible. (They teach it but at least make sure you are on the paper)
Ear muffs are nice because you are switching back and forth between shooting and listening so they are quick


Offline Gulo gulo

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Re: appleseed event preparation
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2014, 02:37:37 AM »
Holy crap we Appleseed instructors are well represented on this forum! I got nothing to add, just get ready to enjoy the best Basic Rifle Marksmanship course I've ever had (beats the pants off what the army taught me!).

Offline Alan Georges

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Re: appleseed event preparation
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2014, 06:57:27 AM »
MM, almost anything I can add here has already been said in this thread:
http://thesurvivalpodcast.com/forum/index.php?topic=34292.0
Give it a quick once-over.  Little things like testing your mags to make sure they drop out easily can make a big difference when you're working under the clock.

Surprisingly, I had a hard time finding swivels that would fit my Ruger and that were wide enough for the GI sling.  The link Roswell posted should be a great help.  Get started early on this, there always seems to be that "one magic part" that makes it all come together and that has to be ordered.

Offline Roswell

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Re: appleseed event preparation
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2014, 10:24:14 AM »
Holy crap we Appleseed instructors are well represented on this forum!

Agreed! I had no idea!  It is very heartening.  :happydance:

Offline PorcupineKate

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Re: appleseed event preparation
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2014, 12:21:59 PM »
I enjoyed the Appleseed shoots but I am a wuss and like to be comfortable.
I would bring everything on the list of things to prepare for an event.
http://www.appleseedinfo.org/as_prepare.html

If the range does not have a awning to shoot under I would bring a pop tent.  Appleseed shoots only stop for thunderstorms so I like to bring my own shelter.    Bringing a pop up tent saved me from a sunburn and a lot of rain.   

I found a yoga mat made a comfy mat to rest on.  The foam is easy on the knees and easy to clean if it rains. 



Offline mountainmoma

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Re: appleseed event preparation
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2014, 01:53:02 PM »
Unfortunately, there is no rain in California in June, but sun protection is needed for sure ! I'm going to check our Yoga mats, but I think mine is an "eco hemp natural latex" one that was a gift, and is not cushy if I recall, I have time to go get one, I am going to want my comfort there for sure !

Offline Roswell

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Re: appleseed event preparation
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2014, 02:16:25 PM »
If you think you are going to do a lot of shooting in the future, I'd recommend one of the shooting mats from Midway USA.  Also, if it is windy there, these can be staked down with tent stakes.

http://www.midwayusa.com/find?newcategorydimensionid=3946

Offline Fyrediver

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Re: appleseed event preparation
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2014, 07:29:18 PM »
If sun or rain is a concern and you've got a pop up canopy it would be a great addition.  I bring mine and a couple light tarps.  We put two canopy's as far apart as the tarp and tie it in between as another roof.  This way we've got double or triple the area of the canopies.  Just make sure to anchor the canopies if it's windy. 

Also, the yoga mat by itself might not be enough.  Add a carpet remnant though and now you're pretty comfortable very cheaply! 

Offline pokeshell

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Re: appleseed event preparation
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2014, 11:43:48 PM »
If sun or rain is a concern and you've got a pop up canopy it would be a great addition.  I bring mine and a couple light tarps.  We put two canopy's as far apart as the tarp and tie it in between as another roof.  This way we've got double or triple the area of the canopies.  Just make sure to anchor the canopies if it's windy. 

Also, the yoga mat by itself might not be enough.  Add a carpet remnant though and now you're pretty comfortable very cheaply!

I picked up a bunch of carpet remnants at my local dollar store. Enough to make my wife angry.

Offline mountainmoma

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Re: appleseed event preparation
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2014, 11:33:25 PM »
well, we were pretty well prepared. we went last weekend. The noise cancelling headphones worked like a dream, made it doable for me. got the tech sights on my daughters 10/22 and pre-sighted in pretty close, which made the experience very nice for her. The boys we went with were not so well prepared and it was more frustrating for them, they couldnt get their accuracy dialed in as well as she did. The scope on mine worked well for most of the first day, but it loosened. So, I will need to remount it and rezero it. Need to do loctite on the screws I guess.  I still had a great experience, I still practiced everything and learned alot, just had my accuracy off. We put in studs from Uncle mikes on both, drilled into the stock both front and rear, which worked well. We did not epoxy the studs at all, seemed pretty tight in the wood, especially on my harder wood stock, where we couldnt even get them in without using beeswax on them. The new slings were stiff, but we were pretty well prepared.

We noticed ahead of time that we had a mag problem with my daughters rifle. Mine will release them all, but hers will only with the black ones and not the clear ones. We tried many things to fix this before we went, but couldnt seem to fix it. We did alot of sanding on one side of the inside of the wood stock where the magazines go, as the calipers showed it tighter than on the other 10/22's we were comparing to, but as promising as this initially seemed, did not do the trick. We kind of think it has to do with slop manufacturing, like the other problem. something just a bit off. we think the stock was a teeny bit off in its jig when it was worked, which puts it off a little to the metal workings.... but wether that is causing this is hard to say...the clear magazines are wider than the black ones, which should still be within spec, but they just seem to catch up on something, and if you push them just a tad to the right to straighten them out when the release is open, they drop out. Maybe someday we will figure it out.

We had so many other issues to fix, we never did the modification to make the bolt release easier. We worked around it by releasing it immediately when we went to our mats, before loading. Then, after we loaded, we could just pull it back and let go to set the first round. The biggest thing we had to fix a few weeks before we went was that her new 10/22 had a manufacturing defect, its ejector groove was not machined all the way to the end. Luckily a few guy friends/neighbors helped  us a few times getting ready and did the gunsmithing on this, took everything apart and filed that extra metal out of the groove. that was the same day we put the scope on mine, which is why my scope mounting was rushed, we were so tired, it took along time to figure out why her rifle was not ejecting rounds and how to fix it and to find a small file that would work. We also ended up at one of their places for the other work as they both have jigs to hold the rifle while it is worked on, needed to drill in the studs, and while putting on the tech sights is not too bad, the original front sight on the Ruger 10/22 has to be pounded out with a punch, we dont have such AND you need to again have that rifle held well while you do that. We learned alot about how these rifles work and go together and feel blessed that we were able to have such help getting everything ready to go to the event.

My daughter got a high score of 145 and is very proud of this, and it was highest for our two families that went, she is real gungho to go practice before she forgets and go again in a few months and try for rifleman. 

we made sure to buy new sunscreen before we went, so the sunburn was very slight, long sleeves helped too with this. Neither of us wore a hat. I tried, but the brim bumped the scope, so check out things like this before you go too. Second day was hotter, so I changed to a loose long sleeve that had an open collar. Only got 2 or 3 of the hot shells ejected from my daughters rifle down my shirt. So, yep, think about shirt choices. We were at the end by the big guns, just how it worked out as we were on time but after many people had already picked their spots. We managed to get me 6 or so over from them, and that with the noise cancelling ear protection was fine.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2014, 11:42:13 PM by mountainmoma »