Author Topic: Episode-894- Nurse Amy and Doctor Bones of  (Read 6465 times)

Offline Moonfire

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Episode-894- Nurse Amy and Doctor Bones of
« on: October 24, 2012, 07:24:51 PM »
The Survival Podcast

EPISODE:   894
DATE:         March 3, 2012
TITLE:        Nurse Amy and Doctor Bones of



Today on The Survival Podcast we are joined by Doctor Bones and Nurse Amy to discuss collapse medicine, everything from emergency dental needs, to creative ways to get antibiotics and natural healing along with their new book, The Doom and Bloom Survival Medicine Handbook.

Dr. Bones was a practicing Board-Certified Fellow of the American College of Obstetrics and Gynecology as well as a Fellow of the American College of Surgeons for many years.

Recently retired, Dr. Bones is drawing from his experience with the many hurricanes that plague his part of the country to put together a medical strategy for those who find themselves in a collapse situation.

Nurse Amy is a Certified Nurse Midwife and an Advanced Registered Nurse Practitioner for many years.  Also recently retired, Nurse Amy has devoted herself to urban homesteading with an emphasis on growing food and the re-learning of skills no longer commonly seen in a modern stetting.

Dr. Bones and Nurse Amy have a number of common interests that are in sync with the TSP Audience:   gardening, aquaculture, medical, world and U.S. history, and the collection of  medical and history books from The 19th century and earlier.  They maintain an extensive library on many subjects.  Both Nurse Amy and Dr. Bones are master gardeners for the state of Florida.  Nurse Amy has succeeded in having her property declared an official Butterfly  Sanctuary and a Certified Wildlife Habitat by the National Wildlife Federation.

Dr. Bones has taught at local medical and nursing schools and is a member of MENSA.  He has been published in popular preparedness web sites and will have an article in a popular survival magazine later this year.

- Doom and Bloom – (Dr. Bones and Nurse Amy’s Site)
- Doom and Bloom on YouTube
- The Doom and Bloom Survival Medicine Handbook

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- TSP Gear Shop
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Amy, aka Moonfire
« Last Edit: October 24, 2012, 10:36:29 PM by Moonfire »

Offline Moonfire

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Re: Episode-894- Nurse Amy and Doctor Bones of
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2012, 07:25:20 PM »

<intro/housekeeping 0:00 - 6:28>

Offline Moonfire

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Re: Episode-894- Nurse Amy and Doctor Bones of
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2012, 07:35:27 PM »
Main Show


Jack Spirko: And now with that, it is my good pleasure to introduce as I said, not only great members of the community of preppers at large, great podcasters in their own right with a great show, great web publishers with an awesome site called Doom and Bloom, and people with real, hard-earned medical experience. Dr. Bones and Nurse Amy, a physician and a nurse that make their lives together and now work 100% of the time to serve the prepper community in all walks of life. They also have a great new book out that they’re here to discuss. Hey Bones, Amy welcome back to The Survival Podcast guys.

Nurse Amy: Hi! How are you? Thank you so much for inviting us back.

Dr. Bones: Hi Jack, we’re glad to be here.

Jack Spirko: Well I’m glad to have you guys here and because it’s you guys and cause you all are close personal friends, I’ve been able to do something I’ve been trying to do a long time. I’ve actually got my wife Dorothy with us today on the air. So hey Dorothy, say hello to everybody.

Dorothy Spirko: Hello, I am here.

Dr. Bones: Oh that’s awesome.

Nurse Amy: Well it’s nice to talk to another female prepper, Dorothy. Thank you so much for joining us.

Dorothy Spirko: Oh, you’re welcome.

Jack Spirko: And part of why I brought Dorothy on is as a busy guy, I was able to skim your book, which I do with most authors I’m interviewing if I get time to fit it in. Dorothy actually read your entire book and she was very impressed with it. So I figured she might have a few questions that I wouldn’t think to ask today. But what I did want to lead off with, it’s a basic question that anybody that’s going to look at buying your new book, which of course is the Doom and Bloom Survival Medicine Handbook, is going to be: Well what makes this different from any other first aid book or other medicine book or any book like Where There Is No Doctor or something like that? What makes your book unique?

Dr. Bones: You know, there are excellent medical books out there. Where There Is No Doctor, Medicine for the Outdoors. I love these books but even Where There Is No Doctor, which is supposedly is supposed to tell you what to do when you’re in a third-world situation, they end most of their chapters with, “and go to the hospital”, “and see the doctor.” But what if there is no hospital? What if there is no doctor? What if you’re the end of the line when it comes to the medical wellbeing of your family or survival group? There had to be a book that was out there that told people what to do in situations where modern medical care is not accessible. And that’s what we’ve tried to do with this book. We’ve tried to give people strategies on what to do when medical help is not on the way.

Jack Spirko: Yeah, I’ve always think of Where There Is No Doctor should’ve had another line to the title: Where There Is No Doctor Today, right? Where I guess you guys are trying to come more from the standpoint of Where There Is No Doctor for a Long Time.

Dr. Bones: Right, exactly. The main goal of wilderness medicine, for example, or third-world medicine is to stabilize an ill or injured individual and then transfer them to where modern medical facilities are, even if those medical facilities are far away. However there may come a time, I hope not but there may come a time where modern medical facilities just no longer exist. And if this is the situation, if you’re the person that’s responsible for keeping your family healthy you have got to know what to do to take care of an ill or injured individual from beginning to end. And that’s basically what we’re doing. If you’re the person that’s responsible from beginning to end as to whether that sick or injured individual is going to get better or not, and how well they’re going to recover, there needed to be a book that talked about this subject. And that’s exactly what we’ve done with this book. We saw that there wasn’t a book exactly like this and we felt that if supplied information to the preparedness community that will be useful in times of trouble.

Nurse Amy: And I just want to add a small thing to that. There are actual medical texts that you can get that will tell you how to perform a lot of these procedures and take care of a lot of these medical issues, but unfortunately they’re written in medical language. And that is a very difficult thing if you have not had years of training to interpret. So you can buy a lot of textbooks, but you may not understand it. So another goal of ours was to, translate would be the word, from the medical-ese technical words into plain English.

Dr. Bones: That’s right.

Jack Spirko: Yeah, because if I read something that says, “Make a decision by bisecting the sub-collateral” – don’t do this folks because I don’t know what I’m saying – “bisecting the sub-collateral inversed Higgins organ” I don’t know what the hell that means. It doesn’t really do me any good. I’m sitting here looking at the picture going, “I guess that’s about here.” And that doesn’t seem like a good way to practice medicine, even when there is no doctor so to speak.

Dr. Bones: Although you’ve impressed me.

Jack Spirko: <laughs> Well that’s like Star Trek. You know where the guy’d say, “We’re gonna do this with the dilithium crystals” or whatever and I’d go, “Well that’s what I would do.”

Dr. Bones: Absolutely.

Dorothy Spirko: I do think it’s very well-written and it’s very easy to understand. I really enjoyed it.

Dr. Bones: Well we really appreciate it.

Nurse Amy: Well thank you. And it really was written for the non-medical person now. So you can just pick this book up, you haven’t gone to medical school, and really understand these different issues. And so I’m glad, Dorothy, that it did speak to you and it was easy to understand, thank you.

Dorothy Spirko: You’re welcome.

Jack Spirko: Well another thing – hey guys, we’re going to just give a pause here.

Dr. Bones: Okay.

Jack Spirko: I’m dealing with a reverb-echo that’s gone now. So I’m just gonna leave a long break so I can edit it out easy. Well you guys, you mentioned that it’s for people even without medical training. Dorothy’s been a nurse for 20+ years, a LPN. Worked in pediatric clinics in beginning work in a hospital and she even took a lot of stuff away from it, like you were saying earlier about the essential oils.

Dorothy Spirko: Yeah, I don’t know a lot about the essential oils so I really liked that chapter. And I liked that you give a lot of herbal and essential oil treatments for a lot of the stuff. I think that was really interesting.

Dr. Bones: You know it’s very important to know what plants in your environment might have medicinal benefits. Because believe me, if we ever hit upon tough times they’re not going to be producing pharmaceuticals, they’re not going to be producing a lot of medical supplies. And so you need to know what’s out there in nature. For example, in the under-bark – not the outer-bark but the under-bark – of willow trees, also poplar trees and aspen trees, there’s actually a substance called Salicin. And Salicin is aspirin. And so you actually have pain reliever simply by chewing strips of under-bark or making tea from it and you can deal with a lot of medical issues with natural plants and natural alternative-type remedies. And we really feel that we want to give all the tools that are available in the medical woodshed, so to speak, to our readers so that they can know that they don’t always have to depend on conventional medicine.

Nurse Amy: Well it’s not only just depending on it. No matter how much medication you stock up on, eventually it’s either going to be used up or it’s going to eventually go bad. Everything has a shelf life. We have talked about extending shelf lives for capsules and pills, however that still has a shelf life. So you need to learn what else you’re going to be able to go to if you don’t have the antibiotic or it’s been used up. So we try to provide natural remedies like ginger and garlic. And the essential oils especially are something that we really do need to stock up on now. We put the essential oils in a chapter in the beginning, talking a lot about a few different ones that I really feel are important to have in your house. Because it’s going to be nearly impossible to produce even small quantities of essential oils even we do plant, say, a lot of lavender because they are so concentrated, it takes so much plant material to even make a few drops of these. And frankly, my yard or my garden is going to be full of edibles and not essential oil material.


Jack Spirko: Sure, because it takes literally tons to make ounces. And that’s why people wonder why pure essential oil, why is this stuff so expensive. The quantity is almost inconceivable when you look at this little vial and realize how much lavender or peppermint went into making that.

Dr. Bones: You know that it takes about an acre of lavender to make about twelve gallons of lavender oil.

Nurse Amy: It’s crazy. No one’s going to fill up their yard. So we put this in because a lot of people are not thinking about storing essential oils and they really are something, along with all of your medical supplies, that you need to get now. Can I grow chamomile flowers post-apocalyptic? Yes I can and I can use those flowers to make myself a chamomile tea or I can grow Echinacea and use the root to help build up my immunity. But the essential oils are going to be nearly impossible unless you have millions of acres. So we wanted to introduce people, we wanted them to understand them and to be interested in them and understand how to use them.

Dr. Bones: Right. Small amounts of these plants can be used to make teas and that is relatively easy to do. But one thing that’s hard to do is to actually have a distillery process which you actually get the oil out.

Nurse Amy: I’m going to be distilling things, Jack, but it ain’t essential oils. <laughs>

Jack Spirko: Yeah. You and me both. I got Steve Harris’ biofuel still making ethyl alcohol biofuel and it’s for fuel. But you might accidentally drink it and the good news is if you accidentally drink gas you’re in big trouble, or drink diesel you’re in big trouble. If you accidentally drink ethanol, well you’ll be okay.

Nurse Amy: Party! Party time. Oh, sorry.

Jack Spirko: I’m serious though. You wrote the book. I got the impression it was written toward the concept of having somebody, and Doc Bones used this term just a minute ago, being the medic. Like the medic in your family or the medic in your group. So what is the medic’s job description? Because obviously if we were all stuck together and someone had been shot or seriously injured we would turn to you, and specifically Doc Bones, and say, “Fix him!” right? And you could do it within the limits of what you have and how bad the injury is. But the average person like me, even if you have some basic trauma training like EMT or something, there’s still a limit to what I can do versus what a true physician can do. So what is the role of that medic?

Dr. Bones: The medic has multiple responsibilities. It goes without saying that the medic is the chief medical officer for a survival community. But the medic is also the chief sanitation officer. In other words, that person is going to be responsible for making sure that the conditions at the camp are sanitary and will not cause infectious disease to run rampant among his people or her people. And so that’s one very, very important aspect of being an effective survival medic. You’re also the chief dental officer. During the Vietnam War, did you know that 50% of all the sick call patients, or the soldiers that presented for sick call, were there for dental reasons and not for medical reasons. So you have to have some general knowledge about how to deal with dental issues.

Jack Spirko: You know what that makes me think of? There was this Vietnam-era movie, probably came out ten years after Vietnam, was a ‘80s era movie. I think it might have been Hamburger Hill. Where the medic is talking to the guy about brushing his teeth and he has everybody your toothbrush, put the paste on it, brush it around up and down motion and the guy’s doing the normal messing around and he starts flipping out at the guy over dental hygiene and freaks him out and suddenly he’s doing it the way he’s supposed to do it.

Nurse Amy: <laughs> It’s a good point. The last thing you’re going to want to be dealing with is a lot of dental pain when there’s no dentist around.

Dr. Bones: Yeah, think about it. If you’ve ever had a bad toothache, you know that you’re not at 100% efficiency. And in a survival situation, you need your people at 110% efficiency. So you need to know how to deal with dental issues. And I’ll tell you one thing, nowadays the philosophy of modern dentistry is to save every tooth if at all possible. But that is actually a very, very new philosophy. When I say new, I don’t mean since Roman times, I’m saying just the fifty years or so. Before then most dental emergencies, dental issues were dealt with with extraction. And so it will be again if we ever find ourselves in hard times. And so it’s important to have perhaps a couple of extractors, an elevator, which is a kind of very small chisel that loosens up the ligaments that holds the diseased tooth in place, and learn how to remove it. There’s actually an awesome YouTube video about removing a tooth.

Nurse Amy: A whole one on Mount Everest.

Dr. Bones: On Mount Everest base camp. And it can be done.

Nurse Amy: It was a young woman that they removed the tooth from. And I tell you, she’s a lot braver than I would be.

Jack Spirko: Oh my god, it’s like an absolutely barbaric process by modern standards. But it’s the only thing people had. It makes me think of Cast Away, right? And I don’t think that method would’ve worked, the skate and the rock, but the philosophy of eventually the pain is bad enough that I’ll take more pain to stop it is very real.


Nurse Amy: Yeah, we’re all going to be rather toothless if we don’t take care of our teeth, if there’s no dentist or medic around to help you out.

Jack Spirko: You guys got me all going on movies now. Remember Moonraker? Makes you want to, “Just go ahead, just get it done now, make them all stainless steel.”

Nurse Amy: There you go. Just be done with it. Or we should just all get a bunch of dentures.

Dr. Bones: So anyhow, additionally you need to understand that you’re going to be the group counselor. In other words, in a collapse situation there is going to be a lot of-

Nurse Amy: Mass hysteria.

Dr. Bones: Hysteria.

Nurse Amy: Grief.

Dr. Bones: Anxiety.

Nurse Amy: Duress.

Dr. Bones: Depression.

Nurse Amy: Sleeplessness.

Dr. Bones: All sorts of stuff. So you know that these kinds of things are infectious. They can wreak havoc upon a camp. So you have to know how to deal with depression and anxiety just as well as you have to deal with broken bones and cuts and things like that. So you have to have good communication skills, you have to be a good listener, and you have to be of course, confidential. You have to maintain the privacy of your people when you are going to be the person that’s responsible for their medical wellbeing. So that’s very important. Also you’re the medical quartermaster. You’ve got a certain number of medical supplies and it’s unlikely that you’re going to be getting more. And so when do you dole out those precious few antibiotics tablets?

Nurse Amy: What was that, After Armageddon?

Dr. Bones: Oh yeah.

Nurse Amy: Speaking of movies, Jack, did you see After Armageddon?

Jack Spirko: You know, I don’t think I did.

Dr. Bones: This is a history channel series, actually.

Jack Spirko: Oh, I have seen it.

Nurse Amy: With the young family that wanders around. They eventually form a community.

Jack Spirko: Yes. And the dude ends up dying at the end from an infection in his leg or something like that?

Nurse Amy: Yep. He cut himself using an axe.

Dr. Bones: Cause there were no antibiotics.

Jack Spirko: Yeah, yeah. He could’ve also used a poultice and pulled a lot of that infection out.

Nurse Amy: I know, it’s so silly. Or garlic.

Dr. Bones: But the thing is is that people didn’t know how to do that. And that’s why we talk about that in the book.

Nurse Amy: That’s right. Herbal medicine, everybody.

Dr. Bones: Right. Garlic, honey, a lot of things.

Nurse Amy: And not only is raw honey fantastic. It never goes bad.

Jack Spirko: You know that family violated one of our other guest’s common rules, which is Frank Sharpe Jr. from Fortress Defense Consultants. His primary rule for staying alive is don’t go to stupid places and do stupid things with stupid people. And that was the embodiment of stupid people, stupid places, stupid things. But they were trying to create, “This is what happens.” I don’t think they were inaccurate with what many people would do.

Nurse Amy: Yes, exactly. Exactly. But the fact that they ran out of antibiotics, that the “medic” who was the one he went to, should have said like you mentioned, “Hey, we’ve got some bees, we’ve got some honey, we can give you some fresh garlic.” There were so many things. And taking care of the wound first of all, if it would have just been cleaned properly. Wound care – he never would have had that infection in the first place.

Jack Spirko: Yeah, rubbing dirt on your wound, I don’t care what you saw on TV, is not a good way to suture up or clean up your wound. And please, unless it’s absolutely an emergency, don’t be Dave Canterbury and put gunpowder in it and ignite it.

Nurse Amy: Oh, that was horrifying to watch.

Dr. Bones: That was absolutely scary, absolutely scary. I can’t believe that.

Jack Spirko: But it worked!

Dr. Bones: He’s a heck of a guy.

Nurse Amy: It did work. But I probably would’ve tried pressure first.

Jack Spirko: Yeah. Well, and he cut himself to do it. That was kind-of crazy. We all have to be careful if we ever get a reality show on Discovery. They’re going to ask us to do things that might break Frank’s rule.

Dr. Bones: Oh, absolutely.

Nurse Amy: I know, right?

Dr. Bones: You do have even other things. You’re an education resource, you have to realize that you have to cross-train your people so that every single one of them knows what to do in an emergency, at least basic first aid, because I’ll tell you one day the medic’s going to need a medic and you don’t want to be the only person that’s the guardian of the medical knowledge. You really want to spread that around so that other people can take care of issues if you don’t happen to be there or if you happen to be the victim.

Jack Spirko: Is there a way to put a priority on that so that other people can start at very basic levels and triage and set priorities so that the guy with the most training can use his training to the most effectiveness and the most need and that lower-end things can even be self-administered or self-taken care of and that type of thing?

Dr. Bones: Oh you’re absolutely right. As a matter of fact I was just talking with another preparedness community just recently about how to conduct triage for a mass-casualty event. And basically one of the first things you do is of course you have to assign levels of severity of injury to the victims. And the first thing you do is, “Hey! Everyone that can walk and needs medical attention, go to this area. And those who are uninjured follow me.” And that means that now you’ve got people, if you can get two or three people that can do that, now you got somebody if the next person you come upon is bleeding heavily, you can have them just sit on that person and apply pressure to the wound while you triage everyone else. It gives you time to be able to evaluate all of the victims.

Jack Spirko: I’ve also cleaned up the mess, so to speak. So I’ve gotten all the people that really can look after themselves, at least for the immediate future, out of the way. And I’ve only got able-bodied people that can help me with me. So if you’re walking and you’re near me, don’t whine to me, put pressure on that wound because if you’re hurt you should be over there.

Dr. Bones: Right.

Nurse Amy: That’s right. Triage is very important, especially if there are mass-casualties.

Jack Spirko: Now you guys bring up a lot about alternative medicine but also antibiotics. And we can look to things like fish antibiotics. I’m actually sitting here looking at four different bottles of them that after reading the book we’ve added to our preps.

Nurse Amy: No, it’s because you have guppies.

Jack Spirko: Yes, yes. But we have added them to our preps for our guppies. But my question is, we were talking about expiration dates. So I’m looking at expiration dates on, let’s see, FishFlox here which is 2014. And we’ve all discovered before that that date is complete BS. But what is a realistic time frame based on your experience for any medication, whether they’re for guppies or for people?

Dr. Bones: I would say that all the evidence shows that medications that are in pill or capsule form are going to last at least two to ten years, or be at normal potency for two to ten years after that stated expiration date. And I refer to something we talked about on the last time I was on your shows, the Shelf Life Extension Program in which FEMA did a study exactly to find that out on all these millions of doses of expired medication that they had. And my impression is the ones that they said were two years, it’s because they were only expired two years at the time they did the study.

Jack Spirko: <laughs> Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Bones: So I believe they’re going to be completely effective for quite a number of years afterwards. And after that it’s not that they become poisonous or dangerous in some way. It’s just that the potency of them - especially if they’re stored in poor conditions, high heat or out in the sun, things like that – that they would lose some potency over time and you may need more of them to achieve the same effects.

Jack Spirko: Gotcha. So are there things we can do to improve their life expectancy or to make sure we reach ten years? Like taking the bottles and vacuum-sealing them, does that do any good at all?

Dr. Bones: I think that freezing and vacuum-sealing aren’t bad things to do. I think that the most important thing is if you can just keep it at, let’s say, 50 degrees, if you can keep it in a dark place, if you can avoid humidity. I think that it’s important to pack these – if you were going to pack them in Mylar bags or plastic bags – that you have some desiccants in there.

Nurse Amy: Oxygen absorbers, exactly. I don’t think it hurts and I don’t think there’s been a study that showed, “Well this lasted longer because we had it vacuum-packed versus this other antibiotic,” hopefully all of us can do these experiments in ten years when we still have laboratories and check it out for ourselves.

Dr. Bones: You have to realize the pharmaceutical industry really isn’t interested in having their pill that they would like you to throw away in a year and a half still be around ten years later, even if it’s effective.


Offline Moonfire

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Re: Episode-894- Nurse Amy and Doctor Bones of
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2012, 07:40:24 PM »
Nurse Amy: Right, cause you won’t buy more.

Dorothy Spirko: So tell me about the effectiveness of for using these fish antibiotics. Not the effectiveness, the-

Jack Spirko: The safety?

Dorothy Spirko: The safety, thank you.

Jack Spirko: I mean, I know they’re for guppies. But let’s say in the future the apocalypse has come, we need antibiotics, we have our FishFlax or FishMox. Is it safe for use on humans even though the bottle says “Not for human consumption”?

Dr. Bones: You know we have many, many years of experience with tropical fish back in the day before we were into preparedness. And now we raise Tilapia as food fish in our pond. And so we’ve had a lot of time to take a look at our supplies that are aquarium antibiotics and some other veterinary antibiotics out of that. And the important thing to look at when you’re evaluating these things is look at the ingredients. Make sure there is exactly one ingredient and that is just the antibiotic itself. All of these particular ones that I had mentioned in the book and also in many articles on are only the antibiotic itself, that’s all it is. And you have to take a look and make sure that they’re in the appropriate dosage for human consumption. And every single one of the antibiotics that I talk about, that we have talked about are either the adult or the pediatric dosage, human adult and human pediatric dosage, for that particular antibiotic.

As a matter of fact, if you look at FishMox the 500mg version and you open the bottle, usually they’re red and pink pills with the letters and numbers WC731. If you look at the Physician’s Desk Reference, which is a book that shows you pictures of all the pharmaceuticals that are produced today you’ll see that Amoxicillin, which is the human version, is a red and pink capsule and it’s got the numbers WC731.

Jack Spirko: Well to me, just from an entrepreneurial standpoint and a logistical standpoint, setting up a separate facility to make fish antibiotics doesn’t make sense when what I want is the antibiotic and I already have the production facility with quality control and all I have to do is put it in a different bottle.

Nurse Amy: That’s exactly right, Jack.

Dr. Bones: Bingo!

Nurse Amy: You hit the nail on the head, and that’s the point. Nobody is setting up fish antibiotic manufacturing facilities. They don’t exist. What happens is those antibiotics are either transferred to a human bottling facility or a fish antibiotic bottling facility. And they put them in the bottles and they put different labels on them and one will go to the human pharmacy and the other one will be sold to-

Jack Spirko: PetCo or PetSmart.

Nurse Amy: Right, exactly.

Dr. Bones: And think about it; this is one thing I want you to think about. Why does a guppy require the same dose of Amoxicillin that a 180 pound adult male human?

Jack Spirko: Cause a guppy’s sitting in a giant tank and it’s being diluted massively by water.

Dr. Bones: But! Hold on, wait. They don’t give you the exact dosage to put in a ten gallon tank or a Siamese fighting fish jar or a 200 gallon piranha tank.

Nurse Amy: Right. At one point we had over a thousand separate small jars of fish and if they got sick they got that capsule put in their small, little – what’s the smallest jar we used, half gallon?

Dr. Bones: Quarter gallon.

Nurse Amy: Half gallon, quarter gallon because they don’t require much water. You just do frequent water changes. And they got the same capsule.

Jack Spirko: Sure.

Nurse Amy: You know, as the ten gallon. Well, and our other tanks were ten, our twenty, and we have one seventy gallon. And a fifty gallon one.

Dr. Bones: Exactly, exactly.

Nurse Amy: We have too many fish. <laughs> And a pond! But we’ve lots of experience with these and you’re absolutely right. There is no reason why they would just make the same antibiotic just for fish-

Jack Spirko: In the same dosage, in the same capsule. What there is is a fish antibiotic labeling plant.

Nurse Amy: Thank-you Jack.

Jack Spirko: No, that’s just marketing, in the words of Paul Wheaton.

Nurse Amy: We have had pharmacists tell us this. We’ve had people who worked in fish antibiotic industry, quality control write to us. We’ve had doctors write to us and say, “You’re so right.”

Dr. Bones: Nobody wants their name, of course.

Nurse Amy: And Jack I’m actually going on a little, what should we call it, a little fishing expedition. A fish antibiotic, we’ll call it a facility, that is about thirty minutes away. I have their address, I have Google Mapped them and I’m actually going to go to Allivet’s which is on the internet, and I’m going to go talk to them. And believe me, they are not making antibiotics in the back room.

Jack Spirko: <laughs> And I think one thing we should say to be clear here too though is when your little Johnny has a sniffly nose and is under the weather, we’re not suggesting you go out and give him FishMox. This is knowledge for the eventual case of a breakdown where antibiotics are needed to save lives and no one’s coming to help you so you have to help yourself.

Nurse Amy: That’s right. Major disclaimer here.

Dr. Bones: Wow, I’m really glad that you mentioned that because the important thing to know is that while you have modern medical facilities, while you have  physicians, while you have emergency rooms, standard medical therapies that will treat a very bad infection or treat a broken bone, things like that, for goodness sake don’t try to do it yourself. Go ahead and let professionals with experience do it. Everything that we talk about is assuming that that situation no longer exists. That there are no doctors, there are no hospitals, that you’re the end of the line. That’s the bottom line, that’s what we are all about.

Jack Spirko: You know what else I liked about this book is it did get Dorothy more involved. Where I remember one time I bought a case of pork chops, freeze-dried Mountain House ones because they were on special. And it’s like six #10 cans, and that’s a lot of pork chops. And she’s like, “I think we have enough of those now.” But this got her motivated to go out, and she didn’t even tell me, she’s like, “Yeah, I just ordered a whole bunch of fish antibiotics for our preps.” I’m like, “That’s awesome.” So are there some other things that you would recommend? I know you mentioned extractors and dental tools earlier, but some other things that you would recommend and maybe are covered in your book, or even not, that people make sure they add to their medical preps?


Dr. Bones: Oh, we have lists for people that are either just a nuclear family and just want enough, want to know what they need to keep themselves together, keep it together if things fall apart all the way to if you’re going to be a person who’s going to put together a field hospital. So we have all of that information in the book; and of course in our many articles. You need, of course, to have lots of bandages. And a lot of this depends on what scenario you’re exactly expecting to occur. If you’re expecting a situation in which perhaps there’ll be civil unrest, so you better know how to treat traumatic injuries. If you’re concerned about economic collapse, well you need to understand nobody’s going to be paying truckers to move food from farms to grocery stores. So you’re going to have issues with malnutrition. You might want to stockpile some vitamin supplements, either natural supplements or commercial supplements. If you’re concerned about, oh I don’t know, nuclear meltdown at the nuclear plant near your home, or a nuclear event, then you might want to have some supplies of potassium iodide, which is a medication that helps prevent long-term damage to the thyroid. So your supplies are going to depend a little bit, they’re going to be varied a little bit, as a result of what scenario you’re specifically expecting.

There’re things you definitely need that you can stockpile easily. And of course those are a lot of the over the counter medications. There’s going to be issues with keeping food and water properly prepared and sterilized so you want to have anti-diarrheals. You’re going to want triple antibiotic ointments for those mild infections. You want to have honey for treating some burns. You want to have, oh gosh, I’ll tell you there are hundreds of different things you need. Of course tourniquets. I recommend getting some packets of Celox or QuickClot, which is something that will help deal with hemorrhages effectively. You want tons of gloves, you want tons of masks. If you’re thinking about a pandemic one day, you want to have more of them.

Jack Spirko: On that note, Doc, I’d like to ask you your thoughts. My two big concerns that I worry about being an eventuality is one, an economic collapse. And I’m not saying it’s going to be Patriots: The Coming Collapse. I don’t know what it’ll look like but I can do math and I can run numbers and go, “This doesn’t go forever” even if I can’t tell you exactly when it’s going to run out. The other one is pandemic. Because pandemic doesn’t care if you have money. Pandemic doesn’t care what color you are or how tall you are or what job you have or whether you’re a child or an adult. Pandemic is indiscriminant, it’s like poison to a rat. The squirrel eats the rat poison, it’s just as dead as the rat. So from your standpoint, your experience in the medical industry what are your thoughts on the eventuality of a truly global pandemic and what do you think it would most likely be or be like if we ever dealt with it?

Dr. Bones: I believe that a pandemic is something that just occurs from time to time. In the old days before there were antibiotics they were plague pandemics, there was of course in 1918 the, what they call the Spanish Flu which was a viral pandemic. And I think that if we’re going to have a pandemic it’s going to be viral one again. Viruses mutate rapidly, so even last year’s vaccines, if you’re the kind of person that takes vaccines, even last year’s vaccines don’t necessarily have to have any effect on this year’s virus at all. So this is something that I think is part and partial of any preparedness plan is to plan for pandemics. You need to have gloves and masks. You need to have a plan for what to do in your sick room if you have somebody that has a potentially contagious disease. Tell us a little bit about, you have a sick room planned out.

Jack Spirko: Well we have an RV, right? So if you’re sick, you’re camping in the RV until you’re better. I hate to be that blunt about it, but that’s as good as you’re getting because if everybody’s sick, who’s going to look after the sick people? And who’s going to look after the house, who’s going to look after the rest of the community? So yeah, you’re getting isolated by distance. And that may not be sufficient, but it’s kinda the go-between. So if you’re some random person off the street, you’re getting quarantined by being told to leave. But if you’re a family member or somebody that’s part of our community, I want to take care of you, there’s the place you can go until you’re better.

Nurse Amy: You’re so right. Because the contagious time, unfortunately is somewhat before the symptoms even occur. But you’ve still got a few days after the symptoms occur that it can be easily transmitted. And it will depend on how terrible the virus is and how easily it is communicated between humans. That’s going to be the vital thing. And you had asked a question about how bad we thought it might look like in the world today. And I think frankly, that was one of the stimulating factors for us to really, really become prepared because of our medical knowledge and our understanding of the Spanish Flu. And we can travel from one side of this world to the other side within hours. And so if something is really jumping from human to human-

Dr. Bones: It’ll go a lot faster than it did in 1918.

Nurse Amy: It could be so bad.


Offline Moonfire

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Re: Episode-894- Nurse Amy and Doctor Bones of
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2012, 06:27:37 PM »
Jack Spirko: What do you think about this tool over in Denmark or whatever – a Dane or a Dutch guy one of the other I don’t remember, I know those guys will fight if I call one the other, I just don’t remember – that figured out, “Gee, I can take Bird Flu and make it transmit from humans by using ferrets” and then publishing basically the formula? Do we really need that kind of knowledge being put out there?

Nurse Amy: I cannot imagine what his motive is. To formulate and to put together a virus that can kill billions of people makes absolutely no sense. What purpose would you have to actually produce – and not only create it, but then to put out how he did it? That’s what freaks me out.

Dr. Bones: This is pure and simple a biological weapon. And biological weapons are- we have 163 countries that have signed a pact not to produce or research into biological weapons. There are a number of violations, of course, that have occurred since that pact was signed in I think 1975.

Jack Spirko: Yeah, if you want to trust your government when they make a pact, ask an indian about a treaty.

Dr. Bones: Yeah, exactly. You’re darn tootin’. So these things are out there, and what I would say to someone who’s trying to keep their survival community healthy: At the first sign that, in your area, that there are signs of that kind of infectious disease going on immediately go into seclusion mode. And you know those people in China and Asia that are walking around wearing masks, they don’t have it necessarily wrong.

Jack Spirko: Yeah. I did see a major failure there. Remember the Swine Flu? Every elected official was telling us to wash our hands and sneeze in our sleeves and all that I was like, “This is crap, this is the normal flu.” But they had people in Mexico that were freaking out. They put this one little kid on the news, and I just felt so bad for this kid. He’s sitting in a public square, he’s got his blue surgical mask on. He’s got a Coke cola. He lifts the mask, drinks the Coke, and puts the mask back down. You go, “You’re doing it wrong.” But that’s my other side of this. Everybody when they hear pandemic think of the movie and made for TV and there’s this thing that’s like 75% infection rate to 50% death rate and even the people that don’t die are heavily incapacitated. But I don’t think people get just from a body count what something like a 50% infection rate and 5% lethality rate would do globally.

Dr. Bones: Oh, absolutely. Think about the interruption of services.

Nurse Amy: Truckers.

Dr. Bones: Think about what would happen in a lot of situations. There would be so many people that are sick or that might not report to essential positions because they’re concerned about becoming sick.

Nurse Amy: That’s right.

Dr. Bones: Many, many services you would consider as basic as garbage collection just are not going to occur. And because of that, more infectious diseases are going to – it is one big-

Nurse Amy: It’s a domino effect.

Jack Spirko: Because what made me start thinking this way, I already did but what really drove it home for me was the Swine Flu non-pandemic, right? So this happens and it’s on TV and they do things like they cancelled Mayfair in Fort Worth, which cost local vendors tens of millions of dollars while they were running a concert across town with twenty times more people showing up in much more close proximity, indoors instead of outdoors. So none of it made any sense. It seemed like complete BS to me in the first place. I was like, “Everybody calm down,” yet people freaked out. The first thing that happened, if you went to any kind of a medical supply store and looked for surgical masks or any kind of particulate mask, they were gone. The next day, if you went to Home Depot or Lowe’s looking for dust masks cause you were a contractor and you needed them for your job, they were gone there. And this was nothing, this was an absolute overall nothing on the global threat matrix. It was no more severe, in fact the infection and death rates were lower than the normal strain of the flu for that year by the time it was all over it. And that’s how people reacted. So when people actually do start dropping over, when it is serious, when people are losing their wife or their child, what kind of result do you expect to see out of that?

Dr. Bones: Well I can’t tell you how bad it would be, that circumstance. I haven’t gone through that type of experience myself, thank goodness nobody has.

Nurse Amy: I mean, I foresee a complete shutdown. Who’s going to go to work?

Dr. Bones: Just expect shutdown of services. Just expect that from our standpoint as medical folks, just expect that you’re going to be likely on your own with regards to medical care because medical help is not going to be on the way. And even in the hospitals, they’re going to be so overwhelmed. Even without mass casualties it will be like a mass casualty incident because you’re going to have more people that need attention or that go for attention than the medical resources can handle.

Nurse Amy: Tamiflu will sell out in ten minutes.

Jack Spirko: My other suggestion is if this ever starts to happen and looks like it’s legitimate, not being overblown, not only should you quarantine yourselves and quarantine anybody coming into your house, like if somebody you’re taking in, quarantine them until you get over the symptom time frame; quarantine your fricken money. Because if this happens, if you think it was an economic recession that we went through over a housing bubble, shut down essential services for three to four weeks in this country and see what that does to the economy.

Dr. Bones: Oh boy. This is not Japan where people are stoically waiting in long lines to get water and things like that.

Nurse Amy: With their hands folded and quiet.

Dr. Bones: I’ll tell you this. It’s amazing how stoic they were and how well-behaved they were during the Fukushima disaster over there. But that’s not going to happen here. Here you’re going to have widespread civil unrest. You’re going to have widespread civil unrest if gas goes up to seven bucks a gallon.

Nurse Amy: They’ll be looting. First of all the pharmaceuticals will be emptied out. All of the pharmacies will just – there’ll be nothing left.

Dr. Bones: But the bottom line, I know we’re talking a lot of doom and gloom here, we’re Doom and Bloom not doom and gloom. But the important thing for people to know is everything we’re talking about are just more and more reasons to be prepared. A lot of guys and a lot of preparedness families have their beans and their bullets together. It’s just time to get those bandages up to the level of your beans and bullets.


Jack Spirko: I think the whole thing is interrelated. If we look at any disaster area where they ask for help, what do they ask for? Food, water, comfort items, and medical supplies. That’s always the short list, that’s always what’s in need, that’s always what’s desired. And then the other thing they need is people that can come in and logistically do those things. So people with medical training, people with logistical training, people with security training. And they all go hand in hand. And I think we just showed how a pandemic can cause an economic recession or collapse, but an economic collapse can cause a pandemic. Not necessarily the H1N1 strain of the flu but like you said, if people aren’t picking up garbage and sewer systems aren’t working this relatively healthy way we live – people die every day in parts of Mexico from diarrhea, right? Not in disaster areas. It’s just like, “What did he die of? “Oh he died of diarrhea.” “Oh it got him too.” That’s the reality in some parts of the world. And we’ve been largely isolated from that in modern history because we have a very well-networked group of systems that take care of waste disposal and nutritional requirements and climate control.

Nurse Amy: And water purification.

Jack Spirko: Correct. I would prefer not to have fluoride in my water but I would rather have fluorinated water than no water at all or water full of cryptosporidium and giardia.

Dr. Bones: Exactly, you’re exactly right. We’re going to have to be prepared to deal with all sorts of threats if things like this happen. And it only makes sense to have the appropriate supplies. Not only the only the appropriate supplies, but enough supplies to handle more than the amount of people that you’re actually expecting to show up at your door or that are supposed to show up at your door in times of trouble because you’re going to wind up dealing with more people than you think. If you have five bottles of antibiotics in your storage, that’s maybe okay for a while for a couple or a couple and small child. But you’re going to have more people than that that are going to be looking to you for help. Are you going to turn away your eight year old niece or your mom?

Jack Spirko: Or the old lady down the road that walked your kid to school the day before this all started?

Nurse Amy: Right, right, exactly. The old lady down the street who just became a widow. We’re going to turn her away? No.

Dr. Bones: The bottom line is you can never ever, ever, ever have too many medical supplies. If you ever are crazy enough to feel that any of them are extra, they will be powerful barter items.

Jack Spirko: Oh absolutely. I think anything that has long-term storability and universal understanding is a barter item. So I can barter a knife, I can barter a bottle of antibiotics, I can barter a silver coin. About the only thing I can’t barter in a true collapse is cash. That’s the one thing that actually becomes worthless is cash.

Nurse Amy: Well it’s great toilet paper. Which we’ll all be desperate for if we don’t get enough.

Jack Spirko: Well that was another thing that Dorothy said we really need to stock more of. And I have a side note advice here for anybody with your spouse: Whenever your spouse says anything’s a good idea, just say, “Yeah okay, go do it.” Whatever level they want to participate on, get them participating. And talk about barter power, if there’s no toilet paper in the neighborhood, what’s a roll worth to you?

Nurse Amy: Oh, absolutely.

Dr. Bones: You’re a wise man, Jack.

Nurse Amy: A bottle of whiskey!

Jack Spirko: I think your book is awesome guys. I’d like to finish up with a little bit on the alternative health side of things. You talked about this already but I’d like you to say a little bit more about why it’s important to marry that to, say, conventional medicine. I’ve always believe that it’s my first choice rather than my last resort. So if I’m having chronic headaches I’m more likely to try turmeric than harsh medications. But on the other side of things, if there’s a yield sign in my spleen, please take me to the emergency room now.

Dr. Bones: <laughs> You’re absolutely right. I think that for early issues or milder issues I think you should start with the alternative medications because they have extraordinary medicinal benefits, they rarely have side effects, they are things that you can actually possibly produce more of. If you have something that can be taken care of by chamomile tea, you can grow more chamomile if that’s what it takes.

Jack Spirko: And I’m drinking it now while talking to you, and it tastes good.

Nurse Amy: That’s right. And it’s good for you.

Dr. Bones: Yeah, chew on a tablet of antibiotics and see how that tastes.

Jack Spirko: FishMox, mmm. <laughs>

Dr. Bones: But you need those also. If you have a major issue going on you may have to switch into conventional mode if it’s necessary to. You break a leg, you’re going to need a splint. That’s just the way that is. So why not put both of these together, all of the alternative remedies together, and put conventional medicine together, you mentioned the word marriage and it is actually just like what you and Dorothy have, a perfect marriage. And this is what we need to do to maintain our health in times of trouble. We’ve got to figure out what is in the environment, what can be grown that will make us better. We have to accumulate our medical supplies so that we have all the tools in the woodshed. And if you don’t do that it’s like entering a boxing match with one hand tied behind your back.

Jack Spirko: From your standpoint Amy, I know you’re like me, you’re like a garden freak. You’re growing everything and everything you can and I know you like to grow a lot of different herbs. To me, I’d constantly cook with herbs. I don’t use a pinch of parsley when I do stew or a tablespoon, I use a freaking handful of fresh parsley. I use oregano and parsley and thyme and-

Nurse Amy: Cilantro.

Jack Spirko: Cilantro, my wife is a fiend for that. And to me all of that stuff, and we put that in our daily diets, we’re also doing a lot of preventative medicine. So we’re heading things off with antibiotics, antivirals, antibacterials. I was amazed when I first really started doing research into herbs and I started going, “What are the properties of an herb? What are their therapeutic properties?” When I went through and discovered the forty most common ones and they were all things that were also in medications. And when I started saying, “What herbs have these?” I would find certain herbs were known for certain things but the main cooking herbs had fricken everything.


Nurse Amy: Amazing. And rosemary, I hope you planted a lot of rosemary. They make a beautiful bush and they grow like crazy.

Dr. Bones: Right.

Jack Spirko: Dorothy loves rosemary. The whole house would be surrounded by it if she had her choice.

Nurse Amy: Well you could make a beautiful hedge from rosemary. And it just smells so incredible. And then plant some other herbs in front of it and just make a layered sort of hedge there.

Jack Spirko: If you roast chicken and potatoes together without rosemary you’re just wrong, I’m sorry.

Dr. Bones: I’m with you man, that’s delicious.

Nurse Amy: Absolutely. But another reason we did put these natural things in here, again it is prevention. When you eat these things you are keeping your body as tip top shape, you’re providing little soldiers that if something is trying to infect you, they’re going to take care of it. You won’t even know it happened because you’re eating so healthy.

Dr. Bones: And even in a situation where, let’s say you broke a bone or you had some kind of injury and you’re healing from it, there are a lot of herbs that will help boost your immune system and help you heal faster.

Nurse Amy: That’s right.

Jack Spirko: Another question – we were kinda joking around about the accidental ethanol ingestion earlier, and then there’s always the guy that says, “Yep, I got my Jack Daniel’s for medicinal purposes.” But do you guys actually see a value of high proof grain alcohol for medicinal purposes?

Dr. Bones: It’s an awesome antiseptic.

Jack Spirko: Okay.

Nurse Amy: Oh, absolutely.

Jack Spirko: And so on that standpoint a lot of people would say, “Well then why not use isopropyl alcohol?” To me it’s dual use, right? It can be ingested. If I got somebody completely freaked out and I can give him two shots of vodka and shut him up so I can take care of other people, I see that as just as medicinally valid as FishMox.

Dr. Bones: Yeah, it has a sedative effect.

Nurse Amy: Absolutely. I would much rather have gallons of that than gallons of isopropyl alcohol. Because actually, once you open that up it starts to oxidate and it’ll go bad. I think your whiskey is going to last a lot longer. Or your high proof alcohol.

Jack Spirko: Plus if I have high proof vodka or everclear or whatever, and moonshine.

Dr. Bones: Everclear – oh my gosh.

Jack Spirko: Keep away from open flame, right? But the other thing is with the herbal stuff, there’s a lot of herbal extractions that I can do using grain alcohol where if I do that with isopropyl alcohol I’m making very good tasting – well probably bad tasting – good smelling poison.

Nurse Amy: Yeah, you can make tictures, exactly. Beautiful, wonderful, healing tinctures.

Dr. Bones: Alright we’re going to, I think in the second edition of the book which I think we’ll put out next year, I think we’ll have a chapter on how to make some of the salves, tictures, and balms. And how to do what they call the maceration process, which is where you infuse herbs into oil.

Jack Spirko: What do you guys think, and I’m including Dorothy in this one, as to why most medical professionals take so much exception to actually accepting these things?

Nurse Amy: I think it’s a lack of education, to tell you the truth. When you begin your medical training, and whether that’s as a nurse because I experienced it too or a doctor, you are given a curriculum that has probably been there for many, many, many, many years basically unchanged and they just follow you through it and it’s all about pharmaceuticals. They are afraid of the FDA to mention alternatives. And I trained as a certified nurse midwife in a master’s program and even our history of midwifery is the community healer. That’s our history.

Jack Spirko: And a midwife didn’t just deliver babies. She was a community medic.

Nurse Amy: Exactly! We were the ones who grew the Chamomile and the Echinacea and knew about the bark, the willow bark. We knew all of these things and this was the knowledge that we imparted and utilized to help take care of our community. Now I went through a midwifery program. Every once in a while they mentioned a little herb, but they frowned upon it because they knew that if I went into practice at a hospital or with a private physician, which I’ve worked in both places, and I told my patient to use X herb instead of X pharmaceutical that I could lose my license. Because that was not FDA approved.

Jack Spirko: It just boggles my mind, too. Because take something like Ephedrine they took away, right? Because a couple people died from it. And a couple people did die. Never mind they ate half a bottle and then drank 17 cups of dark coffee and then went out and ran a marathon; just leave that part out. But a few people did die of it. Let’s say ten people fell over dead using it according to the label. Can you guys tell me how many people a year die from the prescribed use, proper use of pharmaceutical drugs?

Dr. Bones: Well that depends entirely on the different pharmaceutical. There’s probably a couple of people that die a year just from taking too much Tylenol, believe it or not, because it does have some effect on I believe the kidney and liver.

Nurse Amy: Or drinking too much water.

Dr. Bones: So almost anything has the possibility.

Jack Spirko: I just read something recently, it was something like 220,000 people died last year from the “proper use of pharmaceuticals.” In other words, they used it according to the label – and this is all combined, prescription and non-prescription drugs – 220,000 people killed drug-wide in the US last year from proper use of pharmaceuticals.

Nurse Amy: I believe it.

Dr. Bones: Well I can tell you that my mother who – never a smoker, by the way – developed lung cancer in her 70s. And she died. She probably would’ve died of the caner over time but actually she died a lot quicker because she took chemotherapy. Which is perfectly legal medication.

Jack Spirko: FDA approved.

Dr. Bones: FDA approved, indicated for that. And I’ll bet that a percentage of that 220,000, I bet a percentage of them died as a result of medications like that.

Jack Spirko: I would not doubt it for a minute that chemotherapy is a major – and of course they’ll fudge and say, “Well that was cancer.” Well it depends. If it was two year prognosis and you managed to kill the patient in 24 months I think you get the credit.

Nurse Amy: Oh no, her tumor did not grow. In fact they said it had shrunk slightly.

Jack Spirko: Huh.

Dr. Bones: But the rest of her lungs were whited-out by inflammation from the chemotherapy.

Jack Spirko: Well folks, how can people find out more about you guys and get your book?

Dr. Bones: Well our book is available at It’s available at where it is number two in the survival skills and usually number four or five or six in safety and first aid. They can go to our website at where they’ll find not only the book but our various medical kits and other products and over 200 articles on preparedness medicine, alternative remedies, all sorts of good stuff.

Nurse Amy: We’ve been busy Jack.

Jack Spirko: You guys also in all of this do your own podcast.

Nurse Amy: Yes, we do. We do a Saturday night podcast.

Dr. Bones: On the Preparedness Radio Network called the Doom and Bloom Hour.

Nurse Amy: And tomorrow we start a brand new show which we just dropped the file into Dropbox yesterday. On Natural News Radio, Mike Adams, his radio network invited us to start a show. And so our first one is tomorrow – well I don’t know when you’re airing this, it’s Wednesday at 7pm.

Jack Spirko: Okay, then it’ll be yesterday because this is airing on Thursday.

Nurse Amy: They’re going to play it three times a day so they’ll be able to find it.

Dr. Bones: Wednesdays at 7pm.

Nurse Amy: Natural News Radio.

Dr. Bones: And Saturday at 9pm for the Doom and Bloom Hour on the Preparedness Radio Network.

Jack Spirko: Okay guys. Well hey man, I’ve been enjoying having you guys on the air with us again. You’re one of the people on the short list that have a return trip any time you want one.

Nurse Amy: Aww, you’re so sweet.

Dr. Bones: Well we’re honored to be here and I want to take just a second to thank you and your wife Dorothy for everything you do for the preparedness community. I don’t know where we would be without you.

Jack Spirko: I don’t know about that, I think I don’t know where I’d be without this book I’m looking at. Just the list alone guys is probably worth the price of the book. So I’m going to highly endorse it. The audience, if you don’t have this library yet get out and get yourselves a copy.

Nurse Amy: Thank you very much.

Dr. Bones: Thanks, thanks for having us on.

Jack Spirko: And folks, with that this has been Jack Spirko along with Dr. Bones and Nurse Amy and for the first time ever Dorothy Spirko, helping you figure out how to live that better life, if times get tough or even if they don’t.


<closing song>