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The Survival Podcast Network => Citizens Assisting Citizens => Topic started by: rikkrack on November 07, 2012, 04:05:08 PM

Title: TSP disaster response
Post by: rikkrack on November 07, 2012, 04:05:08 PM
I have no idea where to post this and pardon any grammar issues. Posted from my phone in parking lot on way home.

I just listened to the intro to episode 1015. Was totally moved. I am in and want to volunteer in any way. I do not have he skills or knowledge to organize the big group but I can organize my local city group. I want this to move forward and show what preppers can do when not slowed down by government. I heard this as a calling to something more and I want to contribute. When attempting to do the same thing with cert and volunteer in my area it was clear that those organizing didn't have a clue.

I want to move on this like yesterday so what are the next steps?

I will work with my local contacts and prepper store and the local TSPer in my area to organize on a local area but let's get this going!!

Did it again Jack, opening my eyes to a bigger picture! You spoke, I heard you and am wanting to contribute!

Any one else?
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: Roundabouts on November 07, 2012, 04:34:38 PM
So jazzed to talk to hubby about this.  With his experience and background this is right up his alley.  I know he will be stoked.  I always wanted to be a part of MERT but couldn't due to home front responsibilities.  Did organize huge events and things for little league,  boyscouts & family services but think this would be out of my experience level for sure. 

When Katrina hit we were hours away from going in to help when family ER popped up and we couldn't go.   This is a great way to help those that need it without worrying if the money or time will be squandered. 

I am just so jazzed.  Once again Jack uses his power for good not evil!! Gotta love that man. 
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: rikkrack on November 07, 2012, 06:01:03 PM
I am jazzed too. Could you tell? Got my prepper store and three locals rallied and ready to start! All on board and jazzed too.

This goes beyond what government can supply. Real help. For example. Simple things that government aren't concerned with that we all think about. Comfort items for kids. Child care while parents get organized. We don't need to wait for massive trucks o supplies. Get a little going quick until trucks arrive. Simple solutions not complicated ones for simple problems.

Got tons of ideas already.
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: Nicodemus on November 07, 2012, 10:23:09 PM
I hope the idea takes off.

I'd like to see teams popping up all over.
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: Roundabouts on November 08, 2012, 07:58:01 AM
Talked to hubby.  He just said huh cool and raised his eyebrows.  Then not a word.  Yup He is jazzed too!  He went right to silent thinking mode.  No time for excitement.  I could see his wheels turning.  I knew he would love the idea. 
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: rikkrack on November 08, 2012, 08:02:23 AM
Yup, talked to my group and started making a plan. Making a list of skills we all have/share, what we bring tools/supplies wise, and phone tree. Got a meeting location (prepper store as base to meet/supply). Just waiting further instructions and what the "vision" is to come.
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: Roundabouts on November 08, 2012, 08:14:26 AM
That sounds great!  Now we just have to wait for the system to be developed.  Sounds like you could help with that?  Once Jack gets some people to get things grounded in the foundation it will be go time.  This might take a while to get off the ground but I will be a worth while thing for sure.   
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: Adam Campbell on November 08, 2012, 09:03:58 AM
I am definitely not the one you would want as a local "organizer" — I am spread way too thin for that, but if there are people in Western PA / Pittsburgh who want to get together and make a plan I am all for it. I would love to get to know more like minded people around here — and in spite of my cynical attitude I actually WOULD like to know I can help people in need if the time came to do so.
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: rikkrack on November 08, 2012, 09:32:37 AM
Adam, we need more people like you. Not everyone can be, wants to be, or should be organizer/chief. I would only for my group 20 or so in my area. beyond that and out of my zone.

But clearing downed trees, helping do a neighborhood watch for looting, manning a station where people can check in, hand out water. EVERYONE can do SOMETHING. Answer a phone, or even be the central call point to call up all the other volunteers and never leave house.

Wife wont be leaving our area, but will be hanging back and doing kid wrangling for those that do go out and help, central communication back home, and base camp here in our area.

I think the problem is with current organizations is that they are so big and try to over analyze and there are too many groups all wanting to be chief, make the decisions, and no one wants to work together.

Cells of volunteers that can go out and do good. Like Jack said main contats in East, West, and Central. Then they call the state contacts, the state call the regional contacts. Regionals organize their groups and move out.

I have heard of people in multiple disasters packing up to go and help then turned away because one government group couldn't work or communicate with another. Is sad and to think how much money goes to them and the people involved and still cant seem to get things done.
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: Tonyb1515 on November 08, 2012, 10:53:56 AM
I am a member of the National Guard near Washington DC and I was activated this past weekend to drive fuel truck up to Brooklyn. Minutes before we were scheduled to leave, we received a call canceling the mission...... The reason ? The folks coordinating the response only wanted to invite units from the NJ/NY region. I got to spend all this week watching folks hurting for fuel when I had a 6000 gallon truck ready and willing to respond. In 17 years of service we have never actually made it to an emergency. We report, stand around and then go home after logistical snafus, politics and plain on incompetence. When I heard this podcast I almost jumped out of my chair! Please, please, please add me to the list of those ready and able to do what the gov't so often fails to do. This is an awesome idea !!!
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: Klonus on November 08, 2012, 11:45:58 AM
This is such an awesome idea. I think illl bring this up at the next region four meet up.
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: Saint-TyR on November 08, 2012, 12:35:05 PM
This is such an awesome idea. I think illl bring this up at the next region four meet up.

Yes, it is a great idea and I really think the regions are a good place to start with the center being a point person nationally. We are in region 1 and are willing to add to the skill base.
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: rikkrack on November 08, 2012, 12:40:19 PM
So just heard Jack will be out for a few days...So no more updates on the idea he had until he returns. Maybe his plan. plant the seed and wee where it goes while out...lol

Brain storming time.

Those that have been through disaster situations.

What has worked well and why?
What has had epic failures and why?

Anyone else have ideas on "If I had my way I would do X in that situation."

Example....Use Jack's idea of move in, take over a unused radio channel, and broadcast information. I know (not a HAM operator) the FCC would frown on this, but really...how hard would it be, and what are the issues and pitfalls. How would people know to tune into that station? Text, FB, website, call to friends in the area. I dunno.



Example .... Generator with powerstips for cell phone charging. Simple but way usefull to those without power.
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: Maverick9110e on November 08, 2012, 01:44:31 PM
Just listened to this episode today and LOVE IT.  I'm trying to "join up/volunteer" with Team rubicon but their communication is really not working great, it's tough to even get a hold of anyone let alone see who's in my area.

I'm a former Firefighter who moved from NJ to north of Raleigh, NC. Unfortunatley i live just a bit to far to join up to the local FD and help out so i've been looking for an outlet to help people and keep my skills going to good use.  I've got my NIMS,ICS and Hazmat certs so i feel like i can definiley be of good use.

The big key i think with getting a group like this together is going to be the Logistics and Communication end of it.  We're going to need away for team members to communicate and coordinate in times of need and disaster.  Rather than re-invent the wheel i think the best way to get that started is to just utilize this forum, maybe create a new section. Where DRT members can discuss things.  It would have to be maybe a password protected area to keep some of the random riff raff interweb surfers out at the very least and keep the discussion only between team members. Again, not for reasons of being something like a secret squireel but you don't need people from the media or somwhere else jumpin into it.

I know Jack mentioned a head honcho which is a great idea but i think your also going to need to break it up into regions, again for logistics and communication reasons. I'm not sure if any of you are familiar with A.N.T.S. (Americans Networking To Survive) but they have a pretty good setup for members to communicate and work out getting supplies into areas that are in need.

Another roadblock we'll hit is when helping out areas in disaster your going to find a lot of places under states of emergency declared by local, state and federal officials which limits people who are allowed on the roadways, so we are going to need a long term goal of when we become established and even before, working with government officials so that we can actually go help these people.  I think the Non profit registration will go a long way helping with that.

As far as skills required for people deploying.

Your going to need at a minimum courses like ICS-100 and CERT training which can just about all be done online, so people are aware of the what and how to work with emergency responders.

Theres a lot more but i'll leave my post at this for now, need to get back to the office work  ;) lol.
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: rikkrack on November 08, 2012, 02:13:36 PM
CERT training must be different in different areas. Where I am at you must dedicate a full day on a weekend for four consecutive weekends. You cannot miss or make up a session. I couldn't attend all four, and asked if I could make up at a later session. Was told no. All or nothing. Asked what else I could do to volunteer to help. Told talk to local fire house. Local fire house refused any volunteers. Stating they don't need any help.

I have had all the training necessary for working at a major large scale chemical Mfg and no-one wanted my help. I was extremely frustrated. I let it go until I hard Jack talk about the DRT. Woke my desire to help when needed and back at it.

I found my local prepper community (only some are TSPer's not for a lack of tryin). Found some good there, if someone needs something, one call and we are all there.

There are hurdles to overcome. I agree. But I love problem solving, and for every road block I show you a bridge, an overpass, a tunnel, a barge, a footpath, name your way around. But "No" and "can't" is not something I like or will accept easily.

I write SOP's and technical docs for a living. I offer that up as well. If this then follow this guideline. There is a lot of info already out there.

I like the separate area but that is a lot to ask for mods possibly. I also like the idea of a badge with your avatar indicating that you are part of DRT or a Region Coordinator. I dislike the "leader" or rank.
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: idelphic on November 08, 2012, 02:16:20 PM
Guess I'm going to have to d/l the epi and hear what the hub bub is about..
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: Maverick9110e on November 08, 2012, 02:49:00 PM
I agree it might be more work on the already busy moderators but it might be the easiest and least work if you look at alternatives.  Up in jersey you had to attened a class as well but i think there was some online coursework you needed to complete as well, but i may be thinking of the IS-317 class/info thats online.
  Also i'm not throwing any of that out there as negatives, just things like you said we need to look at and overcome  8).  You being able to write the docs will definitley be an assest for the group.  I'd caution anyone that wants to put some in place to call them Standard Operating GUIDELINES though and not Procedures.  There is a big legal definition differnce between the two and SOG's will give you a lot more wiggle room the SOP's which i'm sure you know all about being in your field. I also agree on not having a rank system or anything.  People will get way to caught up in that crap and make mountains out of mole hills with it.
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: Mr. Bill on November 08, 2012, 02:58:38 PM
FYI, the mods/admins are aware of this, and we can set up a separate board in the forum if it looks like there's a demand for it.
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: Hootie on November 08, 2012, 03:10:51 PM
I know for our ham emergency communication team, we had to take some free online course. mainly so know know the how to talk the ligo to the people in charge and what the structure of command is.

off the top of my head I would say:


Starting to make some great contacts in Milwaukee, that would play into what Jack was saying.

Let me know if this takes off. I still got the links we used for our free core training.
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: Nom on November 08, 2012, 10:35:48 PM
I'm new to the forums but not to the podcast and certainly not to the lifestyle.

I have a lot of volunteer experience: 9 years as a police reserve officer and 10 years in county search and rescue, currently on the board and move the policies back and forth.

I have no love or trust in FEMA but they use a great program with NIMS and ICS (if it's used properly). Google both if you wish. Understanding and using ICS locally and personally would go a great way to having the TSP-DRT accepted on a local level.

When you understand that ICS can be used to plan a BBQ for 8 or to handle a national disaster you will understand how it works.

ICS classes are free, take 100 200 and 700 to start.
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: The Professor on November 08, 2012, 11:02:36 PM
Okay, I will admit that I haven't (yet) heard the podcast in question.

However, my initial questions will probably be considered to be of the Wet Blanket variety.

First off, exactly what would the mission description for this disaster response team be?

Second, and dependent upon the first answer, exactly what level of liability is Jack, TSP, the TSP-Forum group, and the individuals concerned willing to accept?

Third, where will the funding come from?  Each individual?  Will Jack, TSP, the TSP-Forum group, and the individuals each bear the cost?

Fourth, and based upon answer to #3, what sort of corporate protection would something like this need?

Unless this is an "informal" group, supporting members of TSP only, then I can see a LOT of legal issues to be faced here.

Sorry, not trying to harsh a buzz, but this is stuff I'd want to know before I got too deeply involved.

The Professor
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: Hootie on November 08, 2012, 11:13:44 PM
Good point Professor. To avoid those problems, maybe for now, we should think small. Like only deploying with in state lines. But as maybe this is a good exercise to plan better as a group, than planning as a solo prepper effort.
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: The Professor on November 08, 2012, 11:34:17 PM
Well, if it's going to be a Mutual Support Group, based upon the Samaritanship within the group, I think it'd be great.  But if you're coming to my Disaster Command Post saying "Hi!  We're from the internet and we're here to help!" . . .uh, I'm going to be a bit dismissive.  I'll want to see your certifications, your liability, your experience. . .in other words, your bona fides.

It takes private groups a LONG time to build those creds up.  Even then, trying to interject yourself into a disaster area under jurisdiction on the state and/or federal level is going to be difficult. 

Not trying to be a d*** here, but I've seen this in action and we've all heard about the stories from events such as Katrina and even Sandy.  <sarcasm mode on> We can't have untrained people who are answerable to no one volunteering to do work without our direct supervision. <sarcasm mode off>.

Now, if you want to try a "Stealth" group. . .then that'd be something different.  Work on the periphery of the event to help organize certain aspects of recovery to those who ask you.  But even then. . .the aftermath (and I mean well AFTER the situation rectifies itself) can be a nightmare.   If you're not set up as a 501xx, you may have a TON of explaining to do.  Where did your money come from, where did it go, can you itemize each expense. . .etc, ad-freakin-nauseum.

And running such a 501xx is a major pain.  I know, I've done it.  You're always at the IRS' beck and call, riding what appears to be a constantly changing line on lubed ice-skates with the ever-present threat of losing your non-profit status  hanging over your head like a razor-sharp Sword of Damocles.

However, I may be speaking from the jaundiced eye of a person who's done something like this.

The Professor

--Modified to correct name issue.--
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: Hootie on November 08, 2012, 11:42:37 PM
Maybe the way to go is to ignore the system and go for "Random acts of kindness"
No street cred needed.

Or you rather than build street cred, you could be apart of a group that already has its hooks in the system. For me this would be our Ham group. We tag along with fire department, police, and hospitals when needed.
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: rikkrack on November 09, 2012, 06:20:01 AM
WOW Professor nothing like a cold shot of reality first thing in the morning. Are you sure you are not a Doctor instead of a professor? But you are right.
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: Maverick9110e on November 09, 2012, 07:14:24 AM
What kind (If any) liability coverage would a 501 give us? I think it's worth looking at other groups Like Team Rubicon and see how they worked through these problems?
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: Chemsoldier on November 09, 2012, 07:57:35 AM
Prof, I would start by listening to the podcast in question, its the first 15 minutes or so of the episode (then it goes to bee keeping) to get the intent Jack suggested.

As long as we respond to sufficiently large disasters I think our issues of access and liability can be minimized.  I lived 30 miles from Joplin when the tornado hit.  There were vehicles rolling in from as far away as NC thinking they were going to get there in time to bandage lacerated heads and hand out blankets.  That place got gang tackled with aid.  Some aid efforts got in the way or did not bring the right materials.  So we can bring survivalist flavored aid to completely overwhelmed regions instead of being a normal relief/disaster response agency.

What is survivalist flavored aid?  Evangelical survivalism: small scale aid using the stuff we already use as preppers.  We use the same types of generators we use in our homes for power outages (they dont need to be big, its mostly just for lights and letting people charge phones).  We use the same propane stoves that we use for prepping for the electric stove to be out.  We use the same pots to cook food that we use as water bath canning.  Think small, mobile, cheap and useful to the owner even if their Disaster Response capacity is never activated (makes our life better even if nothing goes wrong).  We cannot do mass feedings, large scale power generation, debris clearing or SAR as well as other entities that do it professionally or semi-professionally.  We should not compete with the Red Cross or the religious disaster response organizations.  They will do it better than us anyway.  Instead we are portable preppers who just show people what we would do if we happened to live in their communities, we use normal prepper gear as part of spreading the word of why prepping is important.  Religious charities dispense aid with a side of Jesus.  We dispense assistance with a side of prepping gospel.  How is that for intent?
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: rikkrack on November 09, 2012, 08:17:11 AM
+ 1 Chemsoldier. I was a bit deflated and not sure how to respond, just sinking in, and you hit exactly what I was thinking. It is a reality, but I wasn't thinking MASS scale as Prof may have thought. My thought was 5-10 or even 20 responders, maybe hit a suburb community, outlying area, the town over that has a 1/0 population of the major city that was hit.

Not replace the organizations but the outskirts. I lived through some disasters, and the majority of help goes to the most populated areas as it should help the most. The bigger organizations are designed to mobilize for hundreds and thousands of people in a concentrated area. The streets with a few people on it are last to get help if any. A generator between a few families, a composting toilet, water filter, and some camp chow can go a LONG way to those 5 families. A digital camera, and camcorder to start taking pictures for insurance. A info packet of maybe checklist of where to go, what to do next. We could be much more mobile and agile than the bigger groups. A few Tucks/SUV trailer and gone. No Semi, no logistics of loading etc. No setting up where volunteers will sleep and feed them etc. A prepper would already have gear, food, and shelter. Hell sleep in front lawns.  With just 10-20 can use short distance walkie talkie back and forth to a central point who may have a cell/sat/ham radio to communicate with the bigger group or our own coordinator. Get a neighborhood up and semi functional.

Not like TV is on or can go to work sometimes, so take that opportunity, educate them all on why you brought what you did, how they can do the same thing in another disaster, and they can pay it forward.
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: Adam Campbell on November 09, 2012, 08:24:48 AM
Quote
I think the problem is with current organizations is that they are so big and try to over analyze and there are too many groups all wanting to be chief, make the decisions, and no one wants to work together.

That is pretty much why I am not a "card carrying member" of any particular group even though I am a "unofficial member" of several. I don't have room for silly politics and nonsense like that in my life.

Quote
What kind (If any) liability coverage would a 501 give us? I think it's worth looking at other groups Like Team Rubicon and see how they worked through these problems?

Another reason LOL. Once you start getting into 501 or 401K or GS19 or F16 and CS3 or whatever other gobbeltygook secret codes and insurance racketeers, banksters, and riff raff like that I don't want anything to do with it anymore. Kinda defeats the whole purpose of a "group that gets together to help others when they need it" concept.

Yeah, I know this country is a police state full of lawsuit happy, scared to death to do anything without permission, tattle tale telling wussies. But I still think it is a better idea to say — "Who wants meet at some coffee shop / bar / restaurant, learn some skils from each other, go out to the woods and blast some rounds, learn some ham radio, learn about computers, or whatever the other people do — and share phone numbers / emails in case something happens where we can pitch in and help people who need it."

People just want to make everything complicated for no reason these days. Not related — but there is an organization here in town that organizes hikes and outdoorsy events around town. They post group hikes in the local parks and charge "$10 for non-members / $5 for members" and I make fun of people all the time who go to these things saying "Why do I need to pay $10 to go hike in the woods when otherwise I can just um... GO TO THE WOODS AND HIKE??? And if I want to hike with a group um..... Send out an email, gather some people and go for a hike???"

If they offered something I could not do on my own for FREE any time I want, then I might be interested in forking out some cash to participate, but they never do!

People seem to feel like they are part of some "special club" and/or work their way up to "dear leader" of some cult.
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: The Professor on November 09, 2012, 10:33:04 AM
Again, I haven't yet listened to the podcast, will be doing so between classes later today.

Yeah, I suck.  But it's because I've had to deal with this sort of thing numerous times.

However, as I sat and pondered this over a bowl of MacBaren Vanilla Creme, this morning, another idea came to mind.

There are already a number of "we'll give you a fish"-types of organizations and groups.  These are the ones with which I have the most experience.  I have a personal friend who, during Katrina, organized the donation of three semi-loads of clothing.  Each piece was inspected, dry-cleaned/laundered, sealed in plastic bags, sized and sorted.   All of this was done by volunteers.  He had these delivered to the Hurricane-stricken area and was promptly told to "go away."  He did not have the "proper authorization" to be there.

Being the sneaky bastard type, he drove away, secured the use of a number of smaller vehicles and proceeded to attempt to get to the most affected areas that way.  Two of the vehicles were stopped, one at gunpoint, and the drivers told to turn around and return.  He, himself, was threatened with arrest and detention.  This was not a non-profit.  This was just some guy who has amazing organization skills, sufficient charisma and access to a lot of resources.

Now, what I might suggest is an off-shoot of something else entirely (and perhaps this is that of which Jack Spoke).   

I'm going to bastardize a military program's concept.  We can even assign it a cool acronym like DART (Disaster Area Response Team), DATT (Disaster Area Training Team) or DAST (Disaster Area Support Team) for the fun of it.

However, what this might be is not a "Give-a-fish" endeavour, rather it would be a "teach-to-fish" program. 

Utilizing the knowledge available in both the virtual TSP and on-site DA** team, training areas could be set up that teach people in the affected areas how to cope with the situation.  Things such as field expedient hygiene, food location and preparation, safe lighting options, etc. could be covered.   You could even organize smaller groups that work in the stricken area to help people overcome their own personal survival issues such as building an alternate shelter because their home has been destroyed.

I actually heard someone say during Katrina, "Great, I have clothes for a week, but I can't wash them."

They had no electricity to use their own washer/dryer, the laundromats were in the same situation and the water was. . .well. . horrible.  Teaching someone how to make the water safe and how to make a field-expedient "wash machine" could go a long way.  Likewise, teaching people not to cook their food in the kitchen on their propane BBQ Grill (and not using it as a heat source) may save a few lives, as well.

In other words, practical survival classes for the masses and an Advising Group for individuals.

Now, I do understand the desire to help people.  I also understand that it's ridiculous what happens in our overly-litigious society.  I am not a lawyer, but I still would be concerned that this is being led by intelligent, conscientious people wanting to help those in need.  The problem with most intelligent people who have a great deal of common sense is that they tend to underestimate the stupidity (willful or otherwise) of their fellow man.

I count myself as a person who has a modicum of brainpower.  I can count to 21 without having to take my clothes off.  But even I have recently gotten angry at the stupidity of people.  For example, I watched a segment on Fox News yesterday wherein an apparently physically-capable 50-year-old adult male stated that he was mad because FEMA hadn't come to his house and that the Red Cross hadn't brought him food.  He actually said ". . .this is ridiculous!" and proceeded to get angrier and angrier that someone wasn't giving him something. 

That same segment showed another, younger man complaining that someone in authority had condemned his house and that he and his kids were hiding in it because local authorities would allegedly seize his kids and throw them into Child Protective Services if they found out that the kids were still living there.  He proceeded to actually say something along the lines of ". . .why do I have to pay out of my pocket to fix my house?  That isn't fair!"

There was a thread here on TSP Forum that linked the story of one person's experience trying to help out post-Katrina.  I don't remember the whole story, but their church opened up one of it's facilities to house some displaced persons.  The people, rather than be thankful they had a roof over their heads and food in their stomachs, became even more demanding.  The poster (or the person in the link in the thread) shared the story that they wouldn't even change the roll of toilet paper when it ran out in the bathroom.  Rather, these people considered the small staff there to be nothing more than Hotel Clerks.

I'm not hating, here. It sounds like an interesting idea.  Again, perhaps I'm just jaded by the experience I've had in similar situations.  Perhaps something like an Advisory/Assistance Group that utilizes the adaptive brainpower and skills of TSP would be a greater benefit.

Sorry to douse the enthusiasm, but I'm a realist.  I'd rather look at all the problems that arise and work ways around it to maximize the potential benefits while protecting those who are willing to step forward and help.

Having the entity sued because of someone who doesn't have sense to pour water out of a boot with the instructions on the heel is an even worse downer.  "My wife and son died and I spent a week in the hospital.  The guy told me not to use the propane grill as a heating source for the house, but he didn't say nothing about not using a charcoal grill."

There are ways to help.  TSP'ers would be an excellent resource.  But you have to think about the repercussions and do what you can to protect yourself and the entity.

The Professor
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: Mr. Bill on November 09, 2012, 10:39:01 AM
Jack just posted a bunch of further thoughts on this project:

Thoughts on the “TSP-DRT” – Disaster Response Team (http://www.thesurvivalpodcast.com/thoughts-on-the-tsp-drt-disaster-response-team)
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: kenser321 on November 09, 2012, 10:53:02 AM
I would suggest talking to an organization like Bella Medical whom Jack already has a contact with. Clearly they were allowed in to these ravaged areas. I agree a certification should be in order. Or otherwise make it a team format where you must  have 1 firefighter, 1 e.m.t, 1 hazmat person, etc. if thats the goal you are looking for. I believe that might help you get into the area quicker. Otherwise what are the requirements to help your neighbor?

Bake some fresh bread, charge cell phones, bring in cases of water, etc? We don't need an official organization for that just a group of good aquaintances from this forum who want to help. I believe we already have a sub structure in place with the regional boards.
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: rikkrack on November 09, 2012, 10:57:04 AM
Thanks Mr Bill! I needed that. Made me feel all warm and fuzzy.
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: The Professor on November 09, 2012, 11:08:27 AM
Okay, I'll just shut up, then.  Apparently my "negativity" is posing a problem to the issue.  If anyone wants to ask what it's like to run something like this during an actual disaster, please feel free to ask.

The Professor
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: rikkrack on November 09, 2012, 11:24:29 AM
Okay, I'll just shut up, then.  Apparently my "negativity" is posing a problem to the issue.  If anyone wants to ask what it's like to run something like this during an actual disaster, please feel free to ask.

The Professor

I didn’t think what you contributed was negative, but useful from real world applications. You have been there, seen it, and experienced first-hand. Your perspective in my opinion is appreciated. We often like to think other people are like “us” and not those “other” kinds of people. The ones with hands constantly out asking for more without doing anything to help themselves. And the lawsuit happy people are out there as well. Let never forget about them. Those living on hand outs and ungrateful people when they do get help IS a reality. Lawsuits for saving a life IS a reality. Turning much needed help because form isn’t filled out correctly IS a reality. But what we have to do is think of how to CHANGE that reality. I for one never liked conforming to the reality or the norm. 

Some of this makes me think of a post and not sure where or when it was about a TSPer who was stranded due to a loss of job and how the TSP community rallied and get the guy home. WAY small scale but to that one guy and his family it was huge.  Just think of what we could do with a purpose, when we are even more organized, when by helping we touch the lives of those we touch and it spreads.
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: Dainty on November 09, 2012, 12:13:50 PM
Now, I do understand the desire to help people.  I also understand that it's ridiculous what happens in our overly-litigious society.  I am not a lawyer, but I still would be concerned that this is being led by intelligent, conscientious people wanting to help those in need.  The problem with most intelligent people who have a great deal of common sense is that they tend to underestimate the stupidity (willful or otherwise) of their fellow man.

...

There was a thread here on TSP Forum that linked the story of one person's experience trying to help out post-Katrina.  I don't remember the whole story, but their church opened up one of it's facilities to house some displaced persons.  The people, rather than be thankful they had a roof over their heads and food in their stomachs, became even more demanding.  The poster (or the person in the link in the thread) shared the story that they wouldn't even change the roll of toilet paper when it ran out in the bathroom.  Rather, these people considered the small staff there to be nothing more than Hotel Clerks.

I'm not hating, here. It sounds like an interesting idea.  Again, perhaps I'm just jaded by the experience I've had in similar situations.  Perhaps something like an Advisory/Assistance Group that utilizes the adaptive brainpower and skills of TSP would be a greater benefit.

Sorry to douse the enthusiasm, but I'm a realist.  I'd rather look at all the problems that arise and work ways around it to maximize the potential benefits while protecting those who are willing to step forward and help.

Having the entity sued because of someone who doesn't have sense to pour water out of a boot with the instructions on the heel is an even worse downer.  "My wife and son died and I spent a week in the hospital.  The guy told me not to use the propane grill as a heating source for the house, but he didn't say nothing about not using a charcoal grill."

There are ways to help.  TSP'ers would be an excellent resource.  But you have to think about the repercussions and do what you can to protect yourself and the entity.

The Professor

I would agree with these concerns.

My jaw dropped the first time I heard someone I knew personally was attempting to sue their relatives to cough up more money, because they were unable to work due to a disability and the family had recently decided to reduce the amount of financial aid they provided on a regular basis.

That's right, their family had been providing a sum out of the goodness of their hearts for years on end, and now when they decide to not give quite so much the threat is to sue.

I'm no longer susprised at these sorts of things because I've seen it so many times. Helping people can come back to bite you.

That isn't to say we shouldn't try to help people, just that there is legitimate reason to be cautious in how we go about doing it.
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: BaldDragn on November 09, 2012, 12:50:34 PM
Thank you Professor for sharing your experience, please do not "Shut up"! As a long time volunteer I can relate. I wouldn't want to work on the scale that would put me in the position you describe.

I love the idea, and my approach to this would probably be very small scale. In most cases I'd probably be loading the Kawi KLR into the back of my pickup with a literal ton of bottled water (I have), then once as close to the area as I can get, loading the KLR with 300 lbs of mostly water, a few emergency rations at a time (and big 3+ day BOB on my back) and using the best possible route to get into the affected area, cow path and RR tracks (yes, aware of the risks) if need be. I know most alternate routes in my AO since my passion is to find new paths to use to get where I want to go and I have the equipment to do it.

Once there find people in need and deliver the goods, on the way out I could remove anybody that was reasonably able to ride and capable of making the decision for themselves. Return to the truck, refuel, and do it again.

This would not be a new situation for me since I have launched these pirate/underground rescue raids before, when the Sacraento Delta flooded. Even going as far as rigging an air snorkel on the bike and driving seat deep through flood waters to get supplies to people stranded on levees out near Walnut Creek CA and bring people back out. The CHiPs had no idea how I kept returning from the flooded area through their road block, but they never saw me go in after refusing to let me pass the first time. I made about an even dozen runs that day/night.

I may be off base here but it seem to me that we would be best suited for looking in the nooks and crannies of a disaster area while the red cross and Fema handle the huddled masses.
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: rikkrack on November 09, 2012, 01:00:59 PM
I may be off base here but it seem to me that we would be best suited for looking in the nooks and crannies of a disaster area while the red cross and Fema handle the huddled masses.

Read Jacks post on the blog today or the link here from Mr Bill. You are exactly right.
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: FrugalFannie on November 09, 2012, 01:29:33 PM
After listening to this idea on the podcast I was stoked! Maybe because Jack said some magic words that resonate with me and my family. I don't have an exact quote but he said something to the effect of 'wouldn't it be great to show up and start dishing out hot meals?' I grew up with a mom in the restaurant business. My first job was dishwasher, then waitress, then cook. My brothers and I, individually and together, have a number of events throughout the year that we cook at. THIS IS NOT OUR FULL TIME JOB. We usually call these 'vacations.' We are usually lucky if we do a little better than break even. Maybe not the best financial way to spend 3-10 days. When you go to my house, my sister's or any of my brothers houses for dinner, it's me or my siblings doing the cooking. Have a big famly event? We are doing the cooking. Maybe because we didn't have a lot growing up but we always had TASTY food, even if it was just American Chop Suey, food is important to us. I don't eat for comfort but I also know that when the world around you is falling apart an empty belly will magnify the problems and a hot meal can make everything seem more manageable. A cup of hot chocolate to a child can brign a smile even in the worst disasters. Does a hot meal and cup of cocoa solve the world's problems? No. But they do provide for a basic human need.

As for The Professor's concerns: these are questions that need to be addressed but should NOT stop us. If every time someone told another they couldn't do XXX because of YYY MIGHT be a problem, we would still be in caves.

DH and I are a mini disaster response team in our neighborhood. We check on our neighbors to make sure they are ready to weather 'the storm' before it hits,make sure they know they can call us if they need anything, and give them anything we can spare that they can safely use (many elderly). We would really like to be able to help others on a larger scale. A number of years ago we were TOTALLY unprepared and had a horrendous 4 days without power, heat and knowing where we would lay our heads (including our young son and dog) on a nightly basis.

I agree with ChemSoldier (I think that's who said it) that we can bring help while preaching some preparedness 'gospel'. Will we convert everyone? No. But if we convert a few maybe next time we won't be needed in that area. Ad mayb they will be able to help others given the chance.
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: Hellbilly on November 09, 2012, 06:56:02 PM
This sounds interesting, I head Jack talk about it and had to come find the post. Any ideas on how to find people with the same interest in your area?
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: rikkrack on November 09, 2012, 07:19:03 PM
Go to your regional boards. I was going to go there next but wanted to wait until what was going out next week from Jack with maybe more direction or guidance. There may be more coming out next week. Stay tuned. I got all kinds of jazzed but need patience. Keep an eye on the forum and watch for a broadcast. Best I can say as of now.
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: ahughes1171 on November 10, 2012, 08:21:28 PM
When I heard Jack talk about the DRT, I had to pull over and rewind to listen again. I'm in Region 4 (Central Illinois), and am excited that we can finally do something more (tentatively) than just sit on our preps waiting. Yes we can, and should train for events like what the DRT would respond too. But, without breaking OPSEC, it's hard to involve our immediate communities and expose ourselves for what we have. The DRT would provide a great opportunity to help and get the word out, without alienating the community at large. If we can help ease the "suffering" of a few disaster victims, while at the same time, educating them in how to prevent them ending up in the same situation, Count me in.
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: Oniwaban on November 10, 2012, 11:21:21 PM
Hello Friends,
Well, where to begin here? I would like to start by addressing some of the concerns found in the previous posts. First and foremost is liability, I believe that this is a very actual and valid concern which can be addressed by a couple of different ways; first and simplest would be anonymity. No banners, no name tags, no magnetic car signs, not even introducing yourself by name, etc. Staying on the periphery and trying our best not to get in the way. I also find this to be the hardest to enforce and most likely to subverted unintentionally.
Second would be training. This can afford such luxuries as being covered under the state your participating in's workman's comp insurance. Many states such as Alabama DO NOT HAVE GOOD SAMARITAN LAWS to protect you. To the best of my knowledge the minimum level of training that can limit your personal liability is C.E.R.T. Community Emergency Response Team training. Any other group I can think of may not self deploy without opening yourself up to grave personal liability issues. CERTs are self deployed! I'm not a lawyer (thank God) and do not pretend to understand how this could affect liability in connection to any group. Enough on that...
Next would be communication. Outside the affected area I imagine it should not be much of a problem to use such things like the forums here, e-mail or even a phone number tree to get coordinated before going in further. However while inside an affected area the only way to ensure reliable communication will be radio. Here is where M.U.R.S. comes in. Ham requires a license, FRS will likely be overused and the best way to communicate up to a couple miles will be M.U.R.S radios. They offer similar range to C.B. and will be much less likely to be "stepped on" or eavesdropped upon.
Any constructive criticism is welcome. Will address other issues in later posts.
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: Alan Georges on November 11, 2012, 09:17:35 AM
Here's an old article on some of the stuff that worked pretty well:
A Healthy Dose of Anarchy: After Katrina, nontraditional, decentralized relief steps in where big government and big charity failed.
http://reason.com/archives/2006/12/11/a-healthy-dose-of-anarchy

It's not exactly a how-to guide, more of a summary article.  Another decentralized group that didn't make it into the article is Burners Without Borders – the Burning Man cleanup crew who just up and decided to come down here to help.  (web: http://www.burnerswithoutborders.org/)

Good reading, and maybe we can learn something from these groups.
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: High in the Mountains on November 11, 2012, 12:50:35 PM
So here are some thoughts from the token lawyer....

Great ideas are flowing, none should be stopped. There is room in this world for a group like this.

Ok, practical stuff. Liability. The bigger the group the bigger the bulls-eye on your back for some lawyer. Lawyers love insurance. Easier way to get paid. Going after someone as an individual is not common in a situation like this. So the training and the certs and all that are a double edged sword. You make yourself known, as a group, they know who to sue. I would advised Jack to keep TSP out of this area so that he is not pulled into something should something happen. Unless he want to go on radar and then he would need corporate protection, insurance, policies and procures, etc, etc. but still something outside of TSP.

What is someone going to sue for in a situation like this? Negligence. Did you do something that caused damage to someone else and do it in a reckless manner? Look at what we want to do and what actions we want to take. For example-pass out bottled water (bought from a store), pass out food (bought from a store), pass out blankets (bought from a store). I do not see a lot of liability there. However, any type of security actions, stopping looters, etc big no-no.

Next, you gotta know who someone is before you can sue them. Are you wearing a name tag while doing this? Don't. You are Joe Shmoe from the next county over along with three friends. By the time someone thought to sue, you are home eating your preps watching the rest of the event on tv.

Just some thoughts.

If this keeps moving forward, I am willing to do some legal research on the laws that we may encounter out there.
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: Louisiana Suvivor on November 11, 2012, 01:32:36 PM
this is a great idea. i'd love to see where this goes as the community irons out the details. we must be careful. there are haters out there and there's even more people looking for a buck. we have to know what we're getting in to, but we need to get into it none the less
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: Dainty on November 11, 2012, 05:13:56 PM
Great post, Hitm.  :) I was wondering along those lines of particularly the problem of making yrouself known as a group.
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: bdhutier on November 11, 2012, 09:51:24 PM
Disclaimer: I have not heard the episode yet, and there were a few posts which were too long for my ADD to handle. 

I really think this is a good idea, and am looking forward to seeing it implemented.  I would also caution the brainstorming committee to lead the "group" structure AWAY from traditional EM.  Performing any function which would require interaction with the incident command structure equals a nightmare for a group like ours.  That means large disasters are out by default.  This is where you are looking at requiring liability insurance, personal insurance, certifications, a "corporate" structure which will allow you to interact with the Operations Chief and his staff, and be dispatched and recalled by the Incident Commander...

It seems the focus of most of the respondents here are more interested in helping people on the periphery of the disaster, who are often unknown and overlooked but the main response.  Cruising the back roads looking for granny who can't leave her home because of fallen trees.  That's where we can step in and make a difference.  Out there, we're not the response effort, we're locals helping our neighbors. 

From Illinois, and have the time and resources to go help in Texas?  Great!  We happen to have a structure which will link you up with the TSPers in the affected region you can roll with.  Meet up, and go help grannies who call you "Sugar" for a week until you have to get back to your life. 

On the flip side, small towns would probably welcome the help from us.  If your town is serviced by a VFD, you're probably a candidate for a TSP team.  Once the TSP DRTs are established, the word should be spread face-to-face with VFDs and such in the local area.  Show them what you bring to the fight, and in a disaster they will welcome not only you, but also the two out-of-state guys who came down as well.

Well, that's my input so far...  ;)
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: Oniwaban on November 12, 2012, 12:58:48 AM
I would like to respond to bdhutier's post. The most important thing to remember about disaster response at any capacity is...NEVER BRING VICTIMS TO THE DISASTER... Therefore I believe that a baseline for training must be established. While the training for C.E.R.T. is born of the bureaucracy you wish to avoid, Its principals are sound and C.E.R.T. has a proven track record. While It probably covers more than will be necessary for the task we wish to accomplish, it will cover the safety concerns, provide a basic understanding for the politics involved and more importantly how to avoid said politics. For people who have never been involved in something like this before I believe it would be valuable while providing the structure necessary within our group to function. I agree with the statement about avoiding traditional Emergency Management however having people involved on scene who do understand how "the system" works will be very important to recognize it and steer the group away from it.
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: rikkrack on November 12, 2012, 11:16:06 AM
FYI new podcast today on DRT just published.
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: Adam Campbell on November 12, 2012, 12:46:27 PM
I'm glad to see that most people share the same "concerns" that I voiced in my last post, in one way or another.

It is AWESOME when you have a group of people who want to help — and DEPLORABLE and INEXCUSABLE when you have a bureaucracy getting in the way and letting people die for the sake of "paperwork," etc.

The thoughts that immediately come to mind (without links to back these up) are the stories about how a bunch of Power Utility workers showed up in New Jersey to VOLUNTEER with the relief effort and getting power restored — and were TURNED AWAY because they were not part of in a UNION.

Or during Hurricane Katrina — SEMI TRUCKS full of bottled water etc headed to the Superdome etc were turned away because of a lack of proper paperwork or some other ridiculous B.S.

Natural disasters are one thing, but in my opinion we need more protection from our own worthless GOVERNMENT than anything mother nature can dish out.
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: rikkrack on November 12, 2012, 01:05:14 PM
After hearing more detail about the DRT (1018) I feel more energized to help and contribute. I know there needs to be foundation and framework but is there anything we who want to be involved and help can be working on or doing in the meantime?  Keep posting ideas and suggestions here?

Put me in coach(s) ready to play….

Just want to keep the energy alive and moving forward.  Kinda feel helpless but really want to do SOMETHING, believe is a truly great initiative.

Yes, yes, yes patience…heard it all my life.  ;D
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: USMCAllen on November 12, 2012, 02:18:27 PM
If you are interested and want to be doing something productive until more dtails come out, look at the independent study courses online by FEMA.

Training.fema.gov

If u don't already have those certs try to do the
Classes. They would look very good to anyone wanting to see your training. It is also the NIMS and ICS systems that jack mentioned in the show.
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: rikkrack on November 12, 2012, 02:21:57 PM
If you are interested and want to be doing something productive until more dtails come out, look at the independent study courses online by FEMA.

Training.fema.gov

If u don't already have those certs try to do the
Classes. They would look very good to anyone wanting to see your training. It is also the NIMS and ICS systems that jack mentioned in the show.

+ 1 for the link. Homework for tonight. After "honey do chores"
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: Oniwaban on November 12, 2012, 02:31:26 PM
Just finished listening to today' podcast. Thanks for another great one. Let me attempt to communicate my support for your idea. Jack, its a great one. I have spent the last 2 years of my life training so I can help people. I claim no affiliation to C.E.R.T. or any other program. The skills I have learned are for the sole purpose of being able to better help people in times of need. For me there is nothing more satisfying that actually making that connection with somebody and being able to share with them the feeling of empowerment I get from preparedness to help myself and others. Let me also apologize for preaching CERT too much. I was only answering your question on how to screen people for a basic level of competency to the best of my ability. Having lived through the disaster here in Jasper Alabama back on April 27 2011, I know exactly what helps and what hinders. The entire area surrounding my town was leveled. By the grace of God, my neighborhood was spared. My family went without electricity, gasoline, open stores, safe water, cell phones and a lot of other things for 7 days. In that time we were safe, secure and well fed. That afforded me the luxury to go out and help others. I spend several days at the county EMA helping unload truck from the National Guard, distributing food and supplies to families in need and organizing. We also are responsible for the creation of the "Animals in Disasters" part of CERT program. This is an almost always overlooked aspect of disasters. We setup a huge temporary kennel at the fairground and collected all the displaced animals we could find, later to be reunited with their families. Like you I am a mechanic by fate so, fixing things is my nature. Before the storms I became involved in CERT, during and after only cemented the need for such a program in my head. Please believe me when I say I'm not married to it, only to helping people to the best of my ability.
Look forward to talking with you more.

Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: nitehawg on November 12, 2012, 02:52:58 PM
First I have to admit I've been a listener and lurker for a while now.  DRT got me out of the shadows  and into the sunlight, and I'm excited about it.

I'd like to offer that I have about 30 years experience in LE tactical response to "events".  A little over half of that time was spent participating in the planning of our response for planned events and evaluating response to both planned and un-planned events.  I picked up the nickname of "doom & gloom" because part of my job became playing the what-if game, or devil's advocate. What we learned was the "doom & gloom" was the most important part of the planning and evaluation process. 

So I thank the naysayers, for it will force the "honcho team" to look at various situations that could become a problem down the road and come up with a solution for it now.

For what it's worth, if my services are not needed as a member of the "honcho team", I surely will volunteer as a responder in any way necessary.
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: Rob_Cleveland on November 12, 2012, 04:34:22 PM
I'm just hearing about the DRT today and haven't really gotten much info on it yet... but the CERT teams I've found locally weren't really for me. I love the way this idea is going to bring people with all the skills and the mindset of the TSP community together.

I've been kicking around the idea of starting a meetup group for a couple months to find like-minded individuals in my area, but everyone I meet seems to have a "lone wolf" mentality that doesn't resonate with me. You can't be a lone wolf AND want to help your neighbors. Let me know how I can help!

I have a vehicle that can run 1000 miles one way without refueling (thanks to Steve Harris) and I can cook while I'm driving. What's more is after I run out of fuel, I have ways to refuel with wood or any type of sugar.

Anyone in the Cleveland, OH area please reply!
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: microdevil45 on November 12, 2012, 07:08:42 PM
Just a thought, what if we were to help out only fellow TSP members with this drt?  Let the other ones take care of the masses.  I know it sounds selfish but not everyone will understand and like our help. We get our family up and running they could then spread out to their neighborhood.   We can always say we're going to help family.  Maybe have something like dedicated people in each region that can respond and use something like a challenge coin to say "Hey were from TSP and we are here to help".  Just a thought.
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: bdhutier on November 12, 2012, 07:22:26 PM
It is AWESOME when you have a group of people who want to help — and DEPLORABLE and INEXCUSABLE when you have a bureaucracy getting in the way and letting people die for the sake of "paperwork," etc.

Adam B., I feel your frustration, brother.  I've been involved with Emergency Management for 10 years now, as a front line guy all the way to grant writing and award execution.  Unfortunately, sometimes it's not that simple.

The larger the incident, the larger the response.  Makes sense.  But the larger the response, the more bodies, supplies, and equipment are shuffling around.  Without the red tape kind of stuff, you wind up with a mass of confused elements flailing around the affected area, and that does no one any good.  So, I'm saying the government (which is local and state, BTW, not the feds) really does need to run a tight ship to ensure resources are properly used and distributed.  To ensure personnel are deployed and functioning effectively.  And finally, to safeguard the scene from a bunch of cowboys running around doing more harm than good.

That said, I believe there is a definitive place for the TSP to get involved.  There will be people on the periphery of the incident, or who fled to an unfamiliar area with nothing.  These people will be overlooked by the response.  They will need our help.  I believe the head-shed should find the gaps in the response structure, and we can insert ourselves there, where we're needed.
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: Hootie on November 12, 2012, 07:59:16 PM
Hey Mods/Admins,
Could we get a voting or check box thing for this thread were we could start listing ours skills and equipment? Maybe another thread is better. I just see us at a point where we got interested need to start getting organized (cause it is going to take some time....) and we need to see if there is gaps and/or overlap.

I know that the list needs to be appropriate for DRT.
Maybe something like this that we can have a checkboxes for:


Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: Mr. Bill on November 12, 2012, 08:24:07 PM
Could we get a voting or check box thing for this thread were we could start listing ours skills and equipment?

I'm not sure how we'd do that with the "poll" function here -- seems like there would be hundreds of possible items, and new ones being thought up by every person who posts.
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: Hootie on November 12, 2012, 08:41:11 PM
I'm not sure how we'd do that with the "poll" function here -- seems like there would be hundreds of possible items, and new ones being thought up by every person who posts.

maybe it is time for a 2nd thread, and let the list stabilize...
Where should i put it?
Emergency Preparations  or Regional boards
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: joeinwv on November 12, 2012, 08:50:48 PM
I kinda fall into the wet blanket category the professor mentioned... a couple of simple scenarios that show the danger in this situation:

1. Show up and hand out some snacks. Kid eats a granola bar, has peanut allergy, goes into shock. Do you have an epi pen?

2. When you have a tired / hungry group and start handing out food, etc - it can very quickly turn into a riot as people are not always patient. How do you protect the supplies and the volunteers?

3. In situation like Sandy, where you can't get food, lodging or fuel - is the unit self sufficient and do you have the resources to support operations. What is resupply strategy. How long can you be on station before you have to leave.
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: Hootie on November 12, 2012, 09:21:52 PM
I kinda fall into the wet blanket category the professor mentioned... a couple of simple scenarios that show the danger in this situation:

1. Show up and hand out some snacks. Kid eats a granola bar, has peanut allergy, goes into shock. Do you have an epi pen?

2. When you have a tired / hungry group and start handing out food, etc - it can very quickly turn into a riot as people are not always patient. How do you protect the supplies and the volunteers?

3. In situation like Sandy, where you can't get food, lodging or fuel - is the unit self sufficient and do you have the resources to support operations. What is resupply strategy. How long can you be on station before you have to leave.

Ok, to dry out this blanket. How other people handle this, like the Red Cross?

Maybe we don't have to setup distribution points, maybe we can help one house at a time.
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: rikkrack on November 13, 2012, 05:29:26 AM
Why are we continuing to point out why things won't work. This is part of the problems with how response groups fail now. Too many people thinking what could go wrong, what if, and no actions.

Virtually every food items that is mfg with peanuts or in the same facility have to be labeled. Something the government has done for us in this case. Most people who have allergies read the label first and know of their allergies. I didn't force someone to eat the granola bar. It is their choice.

How many food riots have there been in the disaster areas recently? You could have a riot tomorrow because one reason or another. Because a court decision didn't go the way a group thought it should. You could get hit by a plane falling from the sky so better not leave your bunker. You may fall on the wet floor of your bunker so don't get out of bed. There may be risks. But is it not Mad Max end of world.

Most of us on here know out limits and capabilities. When you go to the store do you pack enough food, water, and fuel for everyone in the store? When you go to work do you pack food for everyone there? You plan accordingly. If I don't have enough fuel to go 200 mile, I don't go 200 miles. I go as far as I can safely and return to fuel source. If I have enough water and food for 2 days, I only go 2 days before going back for supplies. Like camping. I don't try and hike the Appalachian trail on 1 day worth of food. You plan and make adjustments. 

When we stop putting obstacles in our way we can focus on progress not all of the scary things that could be, may be, what if's are out there.

If people want to keep putting up obstacles as far as things to look out for, have at least two options to overcome them. Otherwise you are just throwing turd bombs to those that want to look to the better side of things. I see the point of looking to the hurdles, and plan for them, but stop expecting them.

This is going to be a great endeavor, I would like to be on the wagon and part of it. Are there things that need to be addressed? Yes. Is it worth doing? Yes. Are there obstacles that would keep it from moving forward? No. For every obstacle there are 4 ways to deal with it, around it, though it etc.  Does that mean we should stop moving forward? HELL NO.

If you are treading water in the middle of the lake, you cannot see land in any direction. Would you swim in a direction? Or would you sit and continue to tread debating and second guessing what to do. Moving in a direction is better than doing nothing. At least you have a chance by taking imitative and doing something.
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: Artos on November 13, 2012, 06:44:41 AM
Apparently the Occupy folks are on the ball with this one:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/daniel-marans/occupy-sandy-volunteers_b_2101396.html

"As a result, Occupy Sandy's size, sophistication and critical role in disaster relief now rivals that of a major NGO in a developing country. It has filled the void left by the government in providing and orchestrating relief from the storm's most disadvantaged. On the rare occasions when other aid groups show up, Moed says, "They have been answering to Occupy Sandy, because Occupy Sandy is the only group of people consistently on the ground.""

Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: Nicodemus on November 13, 2012, 06:51:02 AM
I think that some of these issues need to be raised, even if they are considered to be negative. It's simply the smart thing to do. I'll take into consideration any wise words, but it's not going to stop me before I even get a chance to try. I don't think anyone is offering any advice in such a way as an attempt to stop this from happening.

Any time we step off our own property, or for that matter allow someone to come onto our property, we're putting ourselves into a situation where we can be sued by someone. We could mitigate some of that problem by only leaving our property when it's absolutely necessary, not allowing anyone to cross the boundaries of our property and by contracting our lives and what we think we should or want to do.

If you live your life that way, that's fine.

That's not the life for me though. I give out Snicker Bars for Halloween, give away food that I grow in my garden, participate in community events where I cook food and take it to be shared, help out the neighbors when they need a hand and participate in a lot of other events that might be deemed "risky" by some standards.

I'm not going to voluntarily restrict my liberty or fail to do what I think might be necessary out of the fear of being sued.
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: Adam Campbell on November 13, 2012, 07:43:35 AM
All of the concerns along the lines of "Can't hand out food to starving people because someone might have a peanut allergy" / "Too afraid of getting sued for trying to help people" etc etc just proves how degenerated our society has become.

Since when is it MY responsibility to know whether some kid has a peanut allergy or not? Maybe the parents could NOT FEED THEM TO THEIR KID??? And yeah, in the event you have a child too young to know any better, and who's parents are nowhere to be found, I can see that being a factor to consider. So I guess you let the child starve because you don't know what he/she is allergic too then. That is pretty much what FEMA does when they come to town right?

I am not saying those aren't valid concerns when it comes to the reality of creating such an organization.

I read Jack's article someone posted above, and I am not trying to be too negative. I think the only reason people are even bringing up those points is because society has already shown us that people who try and help are pretty much risking not only their own lives, but their financial security and freedom should they live through it!

FOR EXAMPLE

Just last week — some dumb ass mother was letting her child stand on top of a fence at the zoo above a pit of wild African dogs. GEEE — wouldn't you know it, but the child FELL OFF of the fence and into the pit full of wild dogs, and the child was subsequently eaten by them.

NOT ONE PERSON — including the child's mother bothered to do ANYTHING to try and help this poor child. NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON.

When the zoo workers showed up, they stood off in the distance banging on sticks and making noise trying to scare the dogs off. When the POLICE SHOWED UP — the only thing they did was shoot one of the dogs.

Now tell me 20 years ago, that NOBODY would have tried to save this child????? PLEASE!!!

THE ENTIRE CROWD just stood around screaming and yelling for the police to show up!!!!

THIS IS HOW RIDICULOUS OUR SOCIETY HAS BECOME.

People are AFRAID to help someone in need, even a defenseless child being eaten by a pack of wild dogs at the zoo because they are now conditioned that the AUTHORITIES ARE THE ONLY ONES WHO CAN HELP YOU.

This society is by and large full of degenerates — but I am glad there are SOME people out there who still want to do good things for others.
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: livinitup0 on November 13, 2012, 08:02:33 AM
"This society is by and large full of degenerates — but I am glad there are SOME people out there who still want to do good things for others."

big +1

...and im stealing this for my sig line
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: Artos on November 13, 2012, 09:26:19 AM
Here is the other side of the equation that must be taken into account:

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/lakeland-man-beaten-ny-after-helping-restore-power/nS5L7/

"NEW YORK —

WFTV learned that a Lakeland man, who went to New York to help get the power back on after Hurricane Sandy, ended up being attacked by a frustrated resident.

John Applewhite, 34, said he came back to Florida with a black eye, a broken jaw and several small fractures."

(http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/lt/lt_cache/thumbnail/400/img/photos/2012/11/13/84/48/applewhite-3.jpg)

Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: Adam Campbell on November 13, 2012, 09:38:06 AM
"He said the man fled the scene in a BMW."

WOW... As if someone driving around in a BMW (granted, it wasn't stolen from someone else he previously beat up) — can't afford to buy a generator — not to mention that with some adapters his BMW could serve as a generator in a pinch.

Another observation about the whole "peanut allergy" scenario.

Hypothetically speaking, if Planters Peanuts came to a disaster scene and donated 20 semi-trucks full of PEANUTS to disaster victims, would FEMA turn them away because a kid might have a peanut allergy, or would they throw away the peanuts for the same reason? Or would Planters get sued for 10 million dollars because some dumb ass parents fed their kids the free peanuts and they died from a peanut allergy?

You can yell at me for steering this thread way off topic — I am just way too cynical for my own good sometimes!
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: microdevil45 on November 13, 2012, 03:52:59 PM
Being from florida, and working for the same company this lineman does I found out about this today in an email sent out to us from our Manager.  Sad, sad, sad.
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: Hootie on November 13, 2012, 07:13:43 PM
For IDs, maybe we could use QR bar codes that and Official / LEO could scan using a smart phone. the QR code could contain a web adress that would send them to a TSP website. or even a profile page.

just an idea...
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: rikkrack on November 13, 2012, 07:28:02 PM
The QR code can give LEO or other responding agency our intro without giving name rage for acerage joe to sue or have other issues by having name tàgs.

Great idea
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: indysafe317 on November 13, 2012, 09:54:31 PM
Been listening to the shows and this sounds like it has some potential.  I'm in Indy, same group as Rickkrack and a few others and we have access to allot of people who would probably be interested.  I'll help in whatever is needed.

I've been a local firefighter for over 20 years, have been a member of Task Force One here in Indy, prior military and run a Safety Training Company.  I've got all the NIMS certs and have allot of experience with Incident Command.  It's definitely not rocket science and can help in whatever way is needed. As many have pointed out, the lower levels are offered online and I have some resources for the 300 and 400 levels if it's needed but I don't know that level would be important for this group at least starting up.

We could definitely provide free training for CPR and First Aid for team members once it gets started up.  We charge for classes to the general public but can work out some special classes for team members that are free and cover a little more than the basics.   I agree with Jack in the theory that I don't think CPR and First Aid should necessarily be mandatory for all volunteers.  There are allot of skill-sets that will be needed that have nothing to do with medical. Honestly, allot of those needs will be filled already by first responders but it does add some "false sense of credibility" to those of us that work in Government, ie.. fire, police and so on.   :)  We love those TPS reports.   ;)

We can easily get those credentials knocked out in this area if it's needed, but I'm up for serving food, being the medical guy, just digging sandbags for a local response or whatever is needed, just let me know, I'm in.  Been looking for a reason to practice my new Ham radio skills.  What better way to learn than to practice with a group.  Count me in.
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: rikkrack on November 14, 2012, 08:29:05 AM
Any thought go to the international listeners? I kinda overlooked that part of things.

Anyone non-US listeners/contributors have any thoughts? I know from the show and posts folks in Canada, Australia, Greece, etc.
Title: Update for the community.
Post by: Oniwaban on November 16, 2012, 07:18:28 PM
We currently have 17 "Honchos" assembled, with more trickling in. Each and every one with with an extremely impressive background. We are ironing out the details for the formation of "The Survival Podcast Disaster Response Team". The experience and training these people have represents collectively thousands, if not tens of thousands of hours of training and real world experience working in disasters. These folks definitely have "the right stuff" to get the job done.
Wanted to keep this thread alive and keep everyone up to date. Thanks everyone for your support.
Title: Re: Update for the community.
Post by: Nicodemus on November 17, 2012, 06:29:34 AM
We currently have 17 "Honchos" assembled, with more trickling in. Each and every one with with an extremely impressive background. We are ironing out the details for the formation of "The Survival Podcast Disaster Response Team". The experience and training these people have represents collectively thousands, if not tens of thousands of hours of training and real world experience working in disasters. These folks definitely have "the right stuff" to get the job done.
Wanted to keep this thread alive and keep everyone up to date. Thanks everyone for your support.

That's great, Oni! Thanks for the update!
Title: Re: Update for the community.
Post by: Hootie on November 17, 2012, 05:28:13 PM
Wanted to keep this thread alive and keep everyone up to date. Thanks everyone for your support.

great to hear.
let us know if we can do anything to help (research, gather data, bake cookies, etc..  )
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: Oniwaban on November 17, 2012, 06:11:56 PM
What! You stopped baking cookies? Cookies always help everything!
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: FrugalFannie on November 17, 2012, 06:59:14 PM
What! You stopped baking cookies? Cookies always help everything!

Maybe 8 years ago we had a massive ice storm. All of New England lost power for 5-35 days. The first night we stayed at home,the second night it was too cold and we stayed with friends. By the third night we had a choice between a shelter (ugh!) and driving over an hour to see if we could stay with relatives. Luckily we ran into someone who wasn't as stressed and ended up with a hotel reservation that night. Super expensive but less stress than te alternatives. We ended up staying 3 nights I believe. As we were checking in the we learned that the hotel allowed dogs (WOW! Talk about fantastic!) and they gave us fresh baked cookies when we checked in. Those were BY FAR the best cookies ever. Thy were warm and comforting and made us feel that everything would be alright. And I'm not even much of a cookie eater. But that day, cookies helped a ton.

We bought a generator the next week!
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: mnotlyon on November 19, 2012, 10:26:43 AM
I know the drt isn't ready for volunteers yet, but I'm ready to move. Here's what I can offer to the team:

My wife and I, plus a team of 7 more members from our church just became Emergency Medical Responders (EMR) licensed in Missouri. We will be doing more training for a similar team started in our small church.

CCW for my wife and I (means we've had a back ground check)

I have 2000 sq feet of warehouse space available (not heated or air conditioned) with a forklift for loading and unloading.
F700 with drop sides that can respond within 150 miles
Chevy Yukon that seats 8 plus a camper that sleeps 10 while on deployment (respond within 500 miles)
Chainsaw and related gear and training
10 foot covered trailer for supplies
12 foot 7000 lb flat trailer
180 gallons of gasoline that can be easily mobile (would need to be replaced when used)
Business credit card with large credit limit to buy supplies in route (would need reimbursed)

Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: idelphic on November 19, 2012, 12:03:07 PM
Here is the other side of the equation that must be taken into account:

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/lakeland-man-beaten-ny-after-helping-restore-power/nS5L7/

"NEW YORK —

WFTV learned that a Lakeland man, who went to New York to help get the power back on after Hurricane Sandy, ended up being attacked by a frustrated resident.

John Applewhite, 34, said he came back to Florida with a black eye, a broken jaw and several small fractures."

(http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/lt/lt_cache/thumbnail/400/img/photos/2012/11/13/84/48/applewhite-3.jpg)

This is sad..  And uncalled for. Such a shame.

But it brings to light something that might be of interest to have - Camera and Audio recording.  If something were to happen - like this - video could go a long way in proving one side or the other, or even apprehension of the assailant.
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: microdevil45 on November 19, 2012, 06:29:05 PM
This is sad..  And uncalled for. Such a shame.

But it brings to light something that might be of interest to have - Camera and Audio recording.  If something were to happen - like this - video could go a long way in proving one side or the other, or even apprehension of the assailant.
Great idea!  Just like a dash cam on patrol cars.  Just maybe a couple more pointing in a couple of directions. 
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: "Top" W. Kone on November 25, 2012, 07:07:55 PM
Since Jack's idea is "Citizens helping Citizens" the DRT will be more adaptable to the needs on the ground. I'm sure that it will be small at the start and will go mostly un-noticed by the Big Gov.  Later, and i'm sure no one interested in the DRT will feel otherwise, it will work with the Unified Command as long as it does not mean sitting on a staging area for three days cooling heals. 

It will remain flexible, and logically not try to replace the Red Cross or FEMA in a disaster.  And to be honest, every disaster has areas that get neglected or over looked.  Those small towns at the end of the power lines that are not a priority for the power companies.  And why should they be? you have a city of 50k you can get up and running or a town of 900.  Who would you focus on first if your the power company.

This is where the DRT can have a lot of "bang for the buck".  We are not going to field 100,000 responders. (yet)  But a small group of 10 DRT rolling into a 'forgotten' town will be well received and responded to favorably. 

One area the DRT will have an advantage with is that we are more likely to have someone in the TSP audience in the area who can give us a heads up of areas not being helped by the big groups/government.  Between Zello, the forum and Jack, we have some interesting information flow in the TSP community that can be exploited by the DRT
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: Sarey on November 26, 2012, 01:21:08 PM


I’ve been thinking that once the DRT is more organized. Perhaps there could be a listing made of trainings that would benefit or help others be of benefit to the DRT?

Where can those who don’t have skills learn some? This would be another great way to piggy back onto Jack’s 13 in 13 idea.

CPR-1st Aid, EMT, etc.

I’m sure there are members of the community that know of other skills and or trainings people could take that would be useful.

If this isn’t a good forum for this please feel free to move it.

Sarey
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: liftsboxes on November 26, 2012, 01:23:16 PM
I'm in and have several local friends and co-conspirators who are interested as well.
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: tkrabec on November 26, 2012, 02:00:34 PM
I've talked to a local Chief of police who attends our local ASIS chapter meetings.  I was asking him how the TSP DR unit would go about coordinating with local officials & get the "in" before disasters.  I'm working on trying to figure out who we need to talk to here in FL, I will pass any info I manage to wrangle up.
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: microdevil45 on November 26, 2012, 08:43:45 PM
I've talked to a local Chief of police who attends our local ASIS chapter meetings.  I was asking him how the TSP DR unit would go about coordinating with local officials & get the "in" before disasters.  I'm working on trying to figure out who we need to talk to here in FL, I will pass any info I manage to wrangle up.

Tkrabec where abouts are you located? I'm in Florida.
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: CrunchDog on November 27, 2012, 01:01:36 AM
I don't know how far along this process is, but I just listened to the episode about the TSP DRT this morning on the way to work. While I wont be able to respond as of now because I'm stationed in Germany, I am willing to help out anyway I can from my end.

I'm certified in
FEMA's Incident Managment Systems 100, 200, 700 and IS 800.
I'm a Firefighter, so all those certs we have can probably be of use.

and what I can help with from my end is Readiness. I've maintained and created Deployment folders for the Fire Dept. Ones we keep to verifiy our deployment capabilities. So anything I can do to help just let me know.

Don't know who's in charge, but if you need to get a hold of me you can PM me.
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: Greekman on November 27, 2012, 02:58:02 AM
Any thought go to the international listeners? I kinda overlooked that part of things.

Anyone non-US listeners/contributors have any thoughts? I know from the show and posts folks in Canada, Australia, Greece, etc.

It si a wonderful idea and I am in for publicity reasons. but I cannot see how that can work internationally. other than mailing supplies & necessities.
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: Hootie on November 30, 2012, 05:19:12 PM
The QR code can give LEO or other responding agency our intro without giving name rage for acerage joe to sue or have other issues by having name tàgs.

QR with Logo....

Didn't realize this at first but, QR codes have about a 30% error correction. So we can cover up 30% of the QR code with a log and full code (in this case a http link to my blog) will be still be read by a QR Code reader.

Remember it is about 30% error correction, so test a lot. I normally test with 4 different QR Code reader apps on my phone, just to be safe.


(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-4XfC0mT6iYw/ULlKsMepXmI/AAAAAAAABC0/XzbSZEgEaRU/s800/QR_FrozenGardener.png)

here are some tutorials:
http://www.accella.net/adding-your-logo-to-your-qr-code/ (http://www.accella.net/adding-your-logo-to-your-qr-code/)
http://hackaday.com/2011/08/11/how-to-put-your-logo-in-a-qr-code/ (http://hackaday.com/2011/08/11/how-to-put-your-logo-in-a-qr-code/)
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: carbon on December 05, 2012, 10:17:19 PM
Just want to say I am in with the DRT :-) Will wait for the details and requirements and take them as soon as able. I live in NYC and tried to help out in the disaster areas from hurricane sandy. I was a bit put down by the lack of response of other preppers in my area that I knew of to provide aid when we were in ground zero (surrounding area) and had some training and capability to help and nobody stepped up when the call came in. I ended up going there by myself and my wife. A small army.

Anyway I look forward to this with much excitement
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: TravisWis on December 06, 2012, 09:50:57 PM
Just wanted to say I'm ready to support the DRT. I'm certified in FEMA's ICS-100 and will start working on others. Located in Iowa/Omaha Nebraska and over the years have experienced tornadoes, Missouri river flooding, and ice storms first hand so can see the potential for something like this.
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: hilljen on December 11, 2012, 10:51:21 AM
I am certified with one of the Southern Baptist (3rd largest DR group in the US) chainsaw disaster relief teams. This is an exerpt from one of our recent communications:

"The DR workers who are coming need to be self-contained because many of the places that could house them have no [electricity] and sometimes no water or sanitation because of that. Whoever comes to help, my encouragement is they can't expect to have anything here for them. They have to come self-contained, especially in these first couple of weeks."

Don't go if you will in any way be a drain on the already strained local resources. You must supply your own gas, food, water, power, medical assistance, or any other supplies. Officials and victims alike will chew you up and spit you out if they perceive you as competing for resources.

Be advised that these people are stressed out to the max. They are not in learning mode. They are in panic mode. They want someone to fix their problems and fix them right now. If anything does not go as planned, they will sue. One of our teams had a limb hit a car. The owner promised to sue because the limb broke the windshield. The entire back half of the car was crushed beyond recognition by a tree that came down in the storm. This is not unusual. That car owner was desperate for a site to place his blame. The chainsaw crew happened to be the ones to inadvertently give him a target.

I'm with the Professor, disaster relief can be a very tricky thing. Sometimes the best thing you can do to help is the hard work of making sure your own community and family is as prepared as possible.

Due to the way things go, standing around ready to help, seeing people in desperate need, but waiting for the right govt official to be bothered to give the go-ahead, finally getting to the point of assistance and having the victims bite the hand trying to help them, I have gotten to the point where I am taking a leave of absence from my DR group. The time and financial sacrifice and physical challenge I could deal with. The psychological stuff has gotten the best of me. Other than right here at home, helping neighbors and friends, I am done for a while.

Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: Stormchaser on January 03, 2013, 11:04:15 PM
I am just catching up with the DRT podcasts and responses, so kind of getting into this late.

Before I comment, let me state my own experience - not to blow my own horn but to give background to my comments.

I have been officially involved with ARES (Amateur Radio Emergency Service) and at one point an assistant EC (Emergency Coordinator - local ARES head), a First Responder for SKYWARN (Ham radio's emergency response organization tied in with the NWS)  and a trained member of SATERN (Salvation Army Team Emergency Radio Network). In actuality, before I 'woke up' to what is really going on with the world and its troubles, I had planned to spend my retirement years as a First Responder SATERN member to the Salvation Army's EDS (Emergency Disaster Service). Ok, a lot of abbreviations but they are almost unavoidable when you deal with a lot of organizations - nature of the beast. I have been primarily trained by Amateur Radio sources and SATERN, with my primary commitment to SATERN. I have never, as yet, been deployed. Recently I have 'retired' and now could do so but because of 'waking up' to what is going on, I have been putting my time elsewhere.

In the US, we have an oppressive government with oppressive regulations, nothing new to anyone here. The government loves regulations, control, and is jealous of its power. At one time government did not care about disasters so much and independent (usually religious-based as they were the ones who really cared) organizations and groups provided most disaster response and relief. Then government decided 'it' was the main player, as in so many other endeavors, and began to limit anyone not under its own umbrella until we have gotten to the point we are in today where victims suffer because of government interference (disguised as 'help'), keeps away those who'd like to contribute (other than monitary) unless they jump through a number of hoops.

FEMA is, of course, the government monster charged with DR nowadays. Not saying it doesn't do any good, but anyone with common sense knows that the government cannot run anything efficiently and when it comes to the lives and welfare of disaster victims, it becomes pretty sad at times..

The Red Cross is government sponsored and again, though some or even much good is accomplished, the RC remains a very political animal. The biggest competitor to the RC is the SA (Salvation Army), a religious-based group privately funded and EXTREMELY efficient, both in terms of money expended and services rendered.

What has kept the SA popular with other emergency organizations is their famed 'Sally wagons', which are mobile food kitchen vehicles - usually dispatched to provide food, coffee, and 'downtime' to emergency response agencies such as firemen fighting a major fire, the Grand Fork floods of a few years back, or horrific disasters like 911. The Red Cross gets a lot more press, and it would not be unusual to see a news reporter crew filming a report for TV and all of a sudden you might see a RC vehicle appear pulling into the background of the video shot. The RC, politically motivated and controlled, does this sort of tackiness as a matter of course. You will never see a SA vehicle doing such grandstanding. The SA/EDS goes in and does its job, not seeking glory but only to serve and help.

The official emergency agencies have been communicating better in recent years, before a disaster starts. Each agency has its strengths. The RC - shelters and warehouses. The SA - serving hot food and drinks. The Southern Baptists - providing food supplies and frequently working with the the SA and others.

So my comments are from a SATERN p-o-v, though I am not part of their CORE (church). My interest has been primarily though my Ham Radio interests funneled through helping the Salvation Army Emergency Disaster Service through SATERN.

The SA has found the following to be of value:

1. Fast Response often determines whether or not the SA is 'allowed' into a restricted area. Example - a Pittsburgh area plane crash several years ago was roped off and no agency without a lot of political pull was allowed into the area. Since the SA deployed and was there EVEN BEFORE THE GOVERNMENT AGENCIES, it was allowed to continue (and it certainly helps that the SA is well-respected for the care it gives emergency workers through its mobile kitchens. Cops and Federal agents get tired and hungry too).

2. Most governmental agencies, whether federal or local, respect uniforms. Uniforms seem to convey to them authority and 'part of the official team' responses (SA/EDS uses uniforms. I have one myself).

3. The SA/EDS has found that carrying some sort of official ID making equipment is helpful, as often at the scene of a disaster the FEDS issue their own ID and if an on-the-scene agency can come up with on-the-scene ID, it is accepted. I'm not suggesting counterfeiting the FED ID, but rather suggesting that if there is an agreed upon on-scene ID, it is helpful to issue your own on the spot that will be recognized by the various agencies (who presumably are doing their own).

4. There are times when other agencies just need more help. That could be helping directing traffic, or maybe 'gofer' help, or whatever. ARES Hams tend to see themselves as 'communicators only', which limits their effectiveness and value. SATERN Hams tend to help as asked, and as such become of more value to other agencies if needed. I think the SATERN attitude would be helpful to emulate, should TSP find itself in such a situation.

This information immediately above is dated as I have not been involved for the last several years, but it indicates how government from the Feds down loves to control and limit. Generally speaking, do-gooders are discouraged and even threatened with arrest if they don't 'go-away'. In this case, the government does not want your help!

Given this, but on a more positive note, I'd make some suggestions for any TSP DR effort:

1. Do not ID yourselves to authorities as 'survival', or 'survival podcast', or anything similar, for very obvious reasons.

2. Do your homework, a lot of it, before you ever do your first deployment.

3. Forge relationships with non-governmental DR groups (since that is what you will be) like the Salvation Army and the Southern Baptist DR organization, and ask for their help and advice. It may even be advisable to affiliate as a semi-related resource.

4. Look for a niche for TSP DR - something that no one is doing as an organization - perfect your skills in this niche, and possibly begin doing pre-disaster training and maybe even publicity among those you will to be known. The idea of being available for recharging devices is ok but my guess would not be very respected among the other disaster organizations, which is ok if you don't mind being so far away from the scene that you won't be of use. Recharging victim's I-phones is likely to be low on the authorities' priority list.

5. I am, of course, biased, but it seems to me that a Ham license and operating experience should be required for such a group as TSP DR. Communications are vital, and though other radio services like CB or GPRS can be used (FRS is essentially useless because of limited range) there is NEVER a problem with finding a 'channel' on Ham radio as we don't use them - we use frequencies and we have hundreds and even thousands of them.

6. Another thing to consider - SATERN and the EDS are very committed people, but we as SATERN Ham Radio responders found ourselves more than a little frustrated with fellow Hams response through the ARES (Amateur Radio Emergency Service) when we needed their help. I'm going to bet that I might offend some other Hams on this site but the situation is what it is, and keep in mind that I am also ARES and SKYWARN. ARES volunteers tended to offer services, such as manning radio nets, but in practice many times did not show up, or if they did, would not stay long, i.e. as for a working shift. ARES is, of course, larger and more monolithic than SATERN but still the Hams in SATERN kind of shook their heads at their fellow Hams in ARES hot-and-cold responses. What this means for a TSP DR is, I think, that the more on-going training and commitment is required, the more committed response. This is opinion, of course, but again based on experience. People tend to like to help and feel important, but when the rubber meets the road, often fail to do much more than help on a very temporary basis. Sometimes that is because of other family and work commitments, which is understandable, but often DR work gets tiring, dirty, and rough. We found the quality of committed responders preferable to the quanity of numbers who were sort of flash-in-the-pans when the work needed to be done. My guess is that other (non-radio) types of DR would experience similar difficulties.

7. 'Official' ID is often helpful. TSP DR members might find it helpful to go to CERT training and achieve their ID's. Such ID may allow access to areas that would otherwise be restricted or forbidden.

There have been many, helpful comments on this. I've found the Professor and Chemsoldier especially relevant.

In conclusion, I think it is great that people want to help, esp. those with already developed skills. Realistically, it will be quite a battle, and a wearying one at that, to get past the idiotic limitations and roadblocks that government authorities will throw out. I will attempt to monitor this issue, though I am rarely on the forums much, and be available for input if needed or requested. For myself personally, as mentioned previously I am headed in another direction and most likely would not be involved in such an endeavor but I certainly would support the idea.
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: Big_Al on January 04, 2013, 12:15:50 AM
my two cents is develop a plan of action that helps this community first, then the others if able.  The scope is to assist directly to TSP members in need during a disaster. the TSP member could communicate directly with a team that goes in. the team goes in as private citizens to help out a friend directly . this plan is reasonable, provides some assurance that joining this community has extra benefits, and gets everybody in this community focused on what really matters; helping friends out when they need it most   

How many TSP members were effected by Sandy?  What needs do they have, or did have?  It sure would be nice to know that a team could be at my house and vice versa if incident x happens .
 
the alternative as stated above is to assist as a proxy to organizations through SA or RC , and assist the police, fire, and health services. 
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: atglover on June 03, 2013, 03:25:33 PM
If any of you guys are actually here in Oklahoma, message me.  I'd like to help.  I went to Moore with my church to help already, but a TSP team in there helping, too, would be awesome.
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: AngusBangus on December 15, 2014, 11:22:35 AM
If you are interested and haven't already, please visit CACTeam.com (http://www.cacteam.com) to sign up and/or donate. We need everyone who is willing. Signing up in no way commits you to any specific disaster response... we aren't the military. If you can't support us with your time or money, please support us with your social capital. That is, go to the website and share it to your social networks (Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, etc.)

Dillon - Region IV Coordinator

NOTE: I will be posting this across multiple threads within the TSP DRT board to reach the widest audience. I believe this is not outside the forum rules given that this board is dedicated to this specific subject.
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: Big_Al on December 15, 2014, 07:41:17 PM
I just signed up for the mighty region V, where the wolves run cold and coyotes yip away.  Who is the V coord. or what is the next step. 
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: AngusBangus on December 16, 2014, 12:27:38 PM
The applications all go to the Executive Director who forwards them out to us. It usually takes a few days to a week to get back to you. Some folks are doing the admin work on weekends, others at night. Region V is David Koss.
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: Louisiana Suvivor on December 17, 2014, 11:02:38 AM
I signed up. Waiting to hear back.I so excited!
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: Louisiana Suvivor on January 06, 2015, 06:56:19 PM
just had my interview for CAC. hope i did well LOL. my regional coordinator seems like an ok dude. angus! you jealous i'm not in your area!?
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: Bonnieblue2A on January 07, 2015, 08:10:43 AM
Still waiting to hear back after 3 weeks...... .   I realize it was the holidays but even the e-mail sent a week ago has not elicited a response from the CAC website.
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: Acehardrive5 on February 10, 2015, 10:36:42 PM
I just sent an email to the regional coordinator for region 6.  He lives in Houston, I live in San Antonio.
Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: Bonnieblue2A on February 12, 2015, 07:22:37 AM
Still waiting..............

I see there is a fundraising challenge:  http://www.cacteam.com/donations-used-cac/



Title: Re: TSP disaster response
Post by: nitehawg on February 12, 2015, 08:50:19 AM
Bonnie I just PM'd you.