Author Topic: Something like chloroquine is in gin and tonic  (Read 2338 times)

Offline surfivor

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Something like chloroquine is in gin and tonic
« on: March 24, 2020, 01:06:44 PM »
Quinine is a natural ingredient from bark but was used in gin and tonic, it appears thats how Gin and tonic was invented as a drink used to treat malaria by the British army officers . I guess it’s still in there but the article seems to say chloroquine is less toxic than quinine. Chloroquine is supposedly a synthetic form of quinine


Actually now that I think of it, alchohol is probably toxic too but they won’t ban that. That’s all what this article says anyway but I had never heard of such claims until just now

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/quinine-tonic-water-gin_n_5982994/amp?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAABTK7KDFhnq7-aH02Q1f16eHO3mvDY74oJ0pHSc2wRixMhN-Z7V-kNDTo6HjmmdKzPfwn1XqmgH7OJgfPwJ2KXcjWuh_qeTohIzAcWZ-a32bc4AGB2nzouY9-3ByU7-f2EbhgdITh9SuzyN2SKjpnONSpoXZF76S8X8SvpMddL03

There's Quinine In Your Tonic, But What The Heck Is It, Anyway?
It's the reason your gin and tonics taste so good.

..

don't let that deter you from ordering a gin and tonic next time you're at the bar, because tonic water contains very low levels of quinine.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2020, 01:18:06 PM by surfivor »

Offline surfivor

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Re: Something like chloroquine is or was in gin and tonic
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2020, 01:17:32 PM »
Another article .. head to the liquor store before there’s a run on tonic water ? Alex jones was just saying you can go out and buy two bottles of it and drink it yourself

https://www.healthline.com/health/quinine-in-tonic-water

Quinine was originally developed as a medicine to fight malaria. It was crucial in reducing the death rate of workers building the Panama Canal in the early 20th century.

Quinine, when found in small doses in tonic water, is safe to consume. The first tonic waters contained powdered quinine, sugar, and soda water. Tonic water has since become a common mixer with liquor, the most well-known combination being gin and tonic. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) allows tonic water to contain no more than 83 parts per million of quinine, because there can be side effects from quinine.

Today, people sometimes drink tonic water to treat nighttime leg cramps associated with circulatory or nervous system problems. However, this treatment is not recommended. Quinine is still given in in small doses to treat malaria in tropical regions.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2020, 01:33:01 PM by surfivor »

Offline LvsChant

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Re: Something like chloroquine is in gin and tonic
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2020, 02:24:17 PM »
... and, whether it provides any protection or not, gin and tonic is delicious.

Offline Bradbn4

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Re: Something like chloroquine is in gin and tonic
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2020, 02:51:59 PM »
Hmm, quinine does have some benefits for such things as leg cramps.

I use to love a ice cold bottle of Tonic water with quinine.  However, some of the side effects scratched it off the list of things that I drink.

Offline surfivor

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Re: Something like chloroquine is in gin and tonic
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2020, 03:12:44 PM »
... and, whether it provides any protection or not, gin and tonic is delicious.

I think the taste is from the quinine. It’s funny that the FDA has banned quinine but its still in some tonic water brands though a bit reduced. I think it looks like if you drank  a gallon and a half or a couple of gallons you would get a pretty good dose but you might not have to drink it all at once

Maybe you could boil it down too so it’s more concentrated

Edit: I think you can just buy the cinchona bark itself
« Last Edit: March 24, 2020, 03:33:00 PM by surfivor »

Offline Hurricane

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Re: Something like chloroquine is in gin and tonic
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2020, 04:55:41 PM »
I found diet tonic water in a couple of stores for less than $1 per liter bottle. Water, quinine, aspartame. Stores were mostly out of the non-diet, which had high-fructose corn syrup. The Good Stuff, with sugar, was over $5 for a 4-pack of maybe-8oz. bottles.

What are the dosages and warnings for tonic water for this virus? Any guesses?

Offline surfivor

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Re: Something like chloroquine is in gin and tonic
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2020, 05:03:55 PM »
I found diet tonic water in a couple of stores for less than $1 per liter bottle. Water, quinine, aspartame. Stores were mostly out of the non-diet, which had high-fructose corn syrup. The Good Stuff, with sugar, was over $5 for a 4-pack of maybe-8oz. bottles.

What are the dosages and warnings for tonic water for this virus? Any guesses?

I’m not a doctor but I thought I read 500mg to 1000mg the first week. Actually maybe it’s something like 500mg per week for 5 weeks for prevention and it’s 1000mg for treatment if you are sick

Here’s a quote from Winston Churchill:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/slate.com/technology/2013/08/gin-and-tonic-kept-the-british-empire-healthy-the-drinks-quinine-powder-was-vital-for-stopping-the-spread-of-malaria.amp

More interestingly, the gin and tonic has a storied history that places it at the heart of the largest empire the world has ever known. Indeed, it is not too much of a stretch to say that the gin and tonic was as essential a weapon for the British Empire as the Gatling gun. No less an authority on imperial power than Winston Churchill once declared, “The gin and tonic has saved more Englishmen’s lives, and minds, than all the doctors in the Empire.”
« Last Edit: March 24, 2020, 05:16:20 PM by surfivor »

Offline surfivor

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Offline Mr. Bill

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Re: Something like chloroquine is in gin and tonic
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2020, 05:22:36 PM »
Apparently I am prescient.

Just looking at some posts on other forums, I predict that in a few days we'll see massive promotion of "natural" quinine plus zinc as a COVID-19 cure.

Quinine:

Chloroquine:

They have some chemical features in common, but even if you're not a chemist, you can see they are wildly different.

Offline surfivor

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Re: Something like chloroquine is in gin and tonic
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2020, 05:58:43 PM »
Various articles

https://www.google.com/amp/s/headtopics.com/us/eastern-congo-has-the-world-s-largest-quinine-plantations-6289556

Eastern Congo has the world’s largest quinine plantations

...

North and South Kivu are home to the largest cinchona forests in the world. The bark of these trees, which were introduced by the Belgians, contains quinine, a drug that cures malaria. (It also tastes pleasantly bitter when dissolved in fizzy water and served with gin and a slice of lime.)

============

https://play.google.com/store/books/details?id=jdw0b99cFGwC&gl=us&hl=en-US&source=productsearch&utm_source=HA_Desktop_US&utm_medium=SEM&utm_campaign=PLA&pcampaignid=MKTAD0930BO1&gclid=CjwKCAjw3-bzBRBhEiwAgnnLClMVJs9jkjMISJQDOilq2DJ6u1mY5xjATIWpKSfpNvaXQZRaxZIYXxoCbGoQAvD_BwE

A rich and wonderful history of quinine – the cure for malaria.

...
https://play.google.com/store/books/details?id=jdw0b99cFGwC&gl=us&hl=en-US&source=productsearch&utm_source=HA_Desktop_US&utm_medium=SEM&utm_campaign=PLA&pcampaignid=MKTAD0930BO1&gclid=CjwKCAjw3-bzBRBhEiwAgnnLClMVJs9jkjMISJQDOilq2DJ6u1mY5xjATIWpKSfpNvaXQZRaxZIYXxoCbGoQAvD_BwE

More than any previous medicine, though, quinine forced physicians to change their ideas about treating illness. Before long, it would change the face of Western medicine.
Using fresh research from the Vatican and the Indian Archives in Seville, as well as hitherto undiscovered documents in Peru, Fiammetta Rocco describes the ravages of the disease, the quest of the three Englishmen who smuggled cinchona seeds out of South America, the way quinine opened the door to Western imperial adventure in Asia, Africa and beyond, and why, even today, quinine grown in the eastern Congo still saves so many people suffering from malaria.

=========

How to make tonic water

https://youtu.be/lCScT48oLPA

Offline surfivor

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Re: Something like chloroquine is in gin and tonic
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2020, 06:17:37 PM »


Quinine was considered essential to war effort in 1940s

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinchona_Missions#Background

With the outbreak of World War II, a supply of quinine was essential for successful military operations. In 1942, the Japanese occupation of the Dutch East Indies cut off the supply of quinine to the allies.[1]

Recognizing the need for a new source of quinine, a program was established by the United States Board of Economic Warfare[3] under the operation of the Defense Supplies Corporation (DSC). Professor William C. Steere was brought on as Assistant Director. The objective was to find supplies of cinchona bark in the Andes for military use. It had three goals: to control all sites with commercial cinchona for long term development; to develop plantations that could compete with established cinchona monopolies to ensure emergency provisions; and to train people in the producing countries to take over the industry at the end of US involvement. Six countries signed an agreement with the DSC; Colombia, Peru, Guatemala, Costa Rica, Ecuador and Bolivia. Wild populations of cinchona were also to be exploited.[4] At its peak, as many as 30 American botanists were involved with the program.[5]

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Something like chloroquine is in gin and tonic
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2020, 06:27:56 PM »
Apparently I am prescient..

Psychic powers!

Offline suzysurvivor

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Re: Something like chloroquine is in gin and tonic
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2020, 08:22:49 PM »
Hmm, quinine does have some benefits for such things as leg cramps.

I use to love a ice cold bottle of Tonic water with quinine.  However, some of the side effects scratched it off the list of things that I drink.
i was discussing this with my husband and he mentioned the leg cramps and said quinine interacts with lots of drugs so they don't use it anymore.

Offline Ralph

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Re: Something like chloroquine is in gin and tonic
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2020, 09:01:55 AM »
Probably a different chemical, but absinthe has been shown to have anti malaria properties.  I do know that thujon (sp) in the wormwood is legally limited due to toxicity if taken in excess.  That limit is how absinthe became legal to purchase again.  The Wormwood Distillery is located not terribly far from me.  i've yet to go there, but if it survives the virus shutdown I'll give it a try. 

I've had wormwood growing in the yard for a number of years, mostly because it repels insects but I also eat a bit from time to time for it's medicinal properties.  I have made a tea from it and used that to get rid of an ant infestation in some flower pots- worked like a charm with no ill effects on the plants.  If anyone is interested, it can be toxic in large amounts and it is amazingly bitter if you chew on some.

Offline LvsChant

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Re: Something like chloroquine is in gin and tonic
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2020, 09:53:11 AM »
I notice that various people are discussing the use of zinc remedies such as "Cold-eeze" and "Zicam" in treating Covid in the early stages (much as people use it to decrease duration and severity of the common cold).

It seems to be the general consensus that it may not work on Covid 19, but probably won't hurt anything as long you don't take more of it than the recommended amount. I've been a believer in this (particularly Zicam, which I find less objectionable, tastewise) for many years for the treatment of common cold viruses. I find that, if I take a couple of doses of the dissolvable tablets of Zicam at the first sign of a sore throat or slight nasal congestion, it often never even progresses into a full-blown cold.

We stocked a lot of this in our home remedy stores...

Offline Hurricane

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Re: Something like chloroquine is in gin and tonic
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2020, 05:13:06 PM »
Here is an interesting article on quinine and cinchona bark. No idea how accurate it is.
They do mention that commercial tonic water should be safe for most people, but that home-brew you are working on could be risky/illegal.

https://www.cocktailsafe.org/quinine-tonic-water-cinchona-bark.html

Offline surfivor

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Re: Something like chloroquine is in gin and tonic
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2020, 12:03:10 PM »
Here is an interesting article on quinine and cinchona bark. No idea how accurate it is.
They do mention that commercial tonic water should be safe for most people, but that home-brew you are working on could be risky/illegal.

https://www.cocktailsafe.org/quinine-tonic-water-cinchona-bark.html

I now have powder made from cinchona bark that was shipped from honduras. I felt a bit sick about a week ago, felt sick late in the afternoon and into the evening getting worse with some chills. At first I thought it was mostly stress related. I was at my friend's house lying on the couch. I was there for dinner but didn't feel hungry. I told her I felt sick and I asked her if I should leave because I was feeling sick but she told me to stay. I was paranoid and later I got home - I made some tea with the cinchona bark powder and went to bed after drinking a cup of the tea using maybe teaspoon of powder. I almost immediately started to feel better. I woke up at 5:00 AM and ate about 4 ounces of hommus with some pita bread and then went back to bed. The next day my stomach still had a very slight queasiness and I was still a little paranoid so I made a stronger tea from the powder than the night before just for the heck of it. I could actually feel as if the tea had raised my heartbeat or had some sort of effect like you get from drinking really strong coffee or perhaps a little more. As a result, I didn't finish that whole cup but otherwise I have felt fine since then

I also go the email below, but I did receive the bark powder, though it took a while to get it. I ordered the least expensive bark I could find which was maybe something like 1/2 ounce for $10. I also researched cinchona, chloroquine and all that quite a bit and had also emailed a nurse for advice. I did a toastmaster speech that included much of my research

=============

The seller associated with your purchase, NicheCo_, has been permanently suspended from Bonanza due to a violation of our User Agreement. This activity was identified after your order was placed. To protect our users, Bonanza errs on the cautious side when dealing with such sellers, and therefore we have permanently removed them from our community. We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this has caused you.

Since this seller is no longer active on Bonanza, you may not receive the item you purchased. As such we highly recommend that you contact PayPal to file a dispute. For your financial security, PayPal does not permit Bonanza to file a dispute on your behalf. We have included information on how to start the dispute process below.

« Last Edit: April 29, 2020, 12:19:54 PM by surfivor »

Offline Mr. Bill

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Re: Something like chloroquine is in gin and tonic
« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2020, 05:14:45 PM »
Question: Why does anybody think that quinine acts against coronavirus?  I mean, by now you would think there would be some evidence.

Even companies that sell quinine water are saying it's a bunch of bunk:

https://fever-tree.com/en_US/article/quinine-and-coronavirus

Quinine is not chloroquine.  They are different chemical compounds.  Even if there's some evidence that chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine are active against coronavirus, there is zero reason to extrapolate that to quinine.  Yeah, they've all been used as malaria drugs, but coronavirus is not malaria, and any antiviral activity from chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine may be from a totally unrelated effect that is not shared by quinine.

Also, quinine is even more toxic than chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine.  This is a case where natural is not better.

More info:

3/31/20: No, cinchona bark is not a cure for coronavirus

Quote
...False links are now being made between another source of antimalarial compounds, cinchona bark, as a natural or alternative source of chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine. As quinine from cinchona bark is an ingredient in tonic water (in very low amounts), there have been rumours that it could also protect against SARS-CoV-2 – the virus that causes COVID-19.

Since its discovery in the 17th century, the bark of the Andean cinchona tree and its chemical constituents, known as quinoline alkaloids (quinine, quinidine, cinchonine and cinchonidine), provided the only treatment for malaria for over 300 years. In 1934, scientists developed the first synthetic antimalarial, later known as chloroquine. Although chloroquine was inspired by the antimalarial activity of quinine, its chemical structure (and pharmacological properties) are quite different from the natural compounds found in cinchona bark. ...

To date, there is no laboratory or clinical evidence that quinine or any other cinchona bark compounds exhibit activity against COVID-19. Also, not everything that is natural is safe. Cinchona and quinine are toxic and can cause serious side-effects known as “cinchonism” which can include hearing and vision loss, breathing issues, and heart and kidney issues. It can also lead to a coma. ...

The benefits, if any, of chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine for treating COVID-19 are still not fully understood. Cinchona bark does not contain either of these compounds, and the alkaloids in the bark bear no relation to them. Likewise, there is no evidence of cinchona being able to prevent or treat COVID-19.

Cinchona is highly toxic and self-medication with it or any other unproven cures should be avoided. Protect your health and don’t waste money funding unethical people and companies profiteering off fear in these uncertain times.

Offline Hurricane

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Re: Something like chloroquine is in gin and tonic
« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2020, 05:34:59 PM »
From Wikipedia
Quote
    Pangolins are threatened by poaching (for their meat and scales, which are used in Chinese traditional medicine for a variety of ailments including excessive anxiety and hysterical crying in children, women thought to be possessed by devils and ogres, malarial fever, and deafness)

Emphasis mine.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pangolin


Offline surfivor

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Re: Something like chloroquine is in gin and tonic
« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2020, 05:53:14 PM »
 They would never confirm any natural substance or treatment is effective so don't hold your breath. They will also emphasize that natural treatments are toxic. A nurse I talked to thinks that synthetic drugs are less desirable.


 On a side note, wikipedia has to admit that collodial silver is used in some ways while most other medical sites say it is not effective for anything which seems inconsistent

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_uses_of_silver

It is on the World Health Organization's List of Essential Medicines, the safest and most effective medicines needed in a health system.[29] The US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) approved a number of topical preparations of silver sulfadiazine for treatment of second-degree and third-degree burns

..

A number of wound dressings containing silver as an anti-bacterial have been cleared by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA)

..

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration in 2007 cleared an endotracheal tube with a fine coat of silver to reduce the risk of ventilator-associated pneumonia

..

In vitro tests demonstrated more potent amoebicidal effects for the drugs when conjugated with silver nanoparticles as compared to the same drugs when used alone. They also found that conjugating the drugs with silver nanoparticles enhanced their anti-acanthamoebic activity.

..

Silver compounds have been used in external preparations as antiseptics, including both silver nitrate and silver proteinate, which can be used in dilute solution as eyedrops to prevent conjunctivitis in newborn babies. Silver nitrate is also sometimes used in dermatology in solid stick form as a caustic ("lunar caustic") to treat certain skin conditions, such as corns and warts.

..

Water purification
Electrolytically dissolved silver has been used as a water disinfecting agent, for example, the drinking water supplies of the Russian Mir orbital station and the International Space Station.[70] Many modern hospitals filter hot water through copper-silver filters to defeat MRSA and legionella infections.[71]:29 The World Health Organization (WHO) includes silver in a colloidal state produced by electrolysis of silver electrodes in water, and colloidal silver in water filters as two of a number of water disinfection methods specified to provide safe drinking water in developing countries.[72] Along these lines, a ceramic filtration system coated with silver particles has been created by Ron Rivera of Potters for Peace and used in developing countries for water disinfection (in this application the silver inhibits microbial growth on the filter substrate, to prevent clogging, and does not directly disinfect the filtered water).

..

History
Hippocrates in his writings discussed the use of silver in wound care.[94] At the beginning of the twentieth century surgeons routinely used silver sutures to reduce the risk of infection.[94][59] In the early 20th century, physicians used silver-containing eyedrops to treat ophthalmic problems,[95] for various infections,[96][97] and sometimes internally for diseases such as tropical sprue,[98] epilepsy, gonorrhea, and the common cold.[54][79] During World War I, soldiers used silver leaf to treat infected wounds.[94][99]

Prior to the introduction of modern antibiotics, colloidal silver was used as a germicide and disinfectant.[100] With the development of modern antibiotics in the 1940s, the use of silver as an antimicrobial agent diminished.[69] Silver sulfadiazine (SSD) is a compound containing silver and the antibiotic sodium sulfadiazine, which was developed in 1968.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2020, 06:00:04 PM by surfivor »

Offline Mr. Bill

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Re: Something like chloroquine is in gin and tonic
« Reply #20 on: April 29, 2020, 06:13:28 PM »
They would never confirm any natural substance or treatment is effective so don't hold your breath. ...

But I don't care what "they" would say.  I want to hear any evidence that quinine works against coronavirus.  I don't just want some chiropractor's opinion that everyone should drink tonic water, I want to hear of actual cases where somebody had COVID-19 and took quinine and the symptoms inproved.  It doesn't even have to be in a medical journal.  Are there any reports of quinine helping with coronavirus in an acutal sick human being?

Offline surfivor

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Re: Something like chloroquine is in gin and tonic
« Reply #21 on: April 29, 2020, 07:37:35 PM »
But I don't care what "they" would say.  I want to hear any evidence that quinine works against coronavirus.  I don't just want some chiropractor's opinion that everyone should drink tonic water, I want to hear of actual cases where somebody had COVID-19 and took quinine and the symptoms inproved.  It doesn't even have to be in a medical journal.  Are there any reports of quinine helping with coronavirus in an acutal sick human being?

 They may not study it or maybe they would put out bad information. If they don't want to encourage people to use it then they may say it is unproven but they may not try to prove it or study it. 

Some groups may also be concerned that people will start cutting down trees to get bark etc. in that case they may not wish to encourage things like that by saying it may be effective
« Last Edit: April 29, 2020, 07:43:29 PM by surfivor »

Offline Mr. Bill

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Re: Something like chloroquine is in gin and tonic
« Reply #22 on: April 29, 2020, 09:13:59 PM »
Are there any reports of quinine helping with coronavirus in an acutal sick human being?