The ZIPP ZEPP , a 51 foot long multi-Band HF Antenna,Tuner required

[Carl]

  This is totally new little antenna that I imagined during the wait for my microwave to heat breakfast this morning. I have already built one
and as soon as the sun comes up,I plan to erect and test it! Other testers needed.....

  It is a simple antenna design that uses 18 gauge speaker wire...34 feet of the stuff,though most any twin wire and gauge will do. You say 34 feet?
Well you use 34 feet BUT you cut it so that one side is 17 feet long and the other "long" side is 51 feet long (yes ,you solder the scrap to the end for the long side. Place this ZIPP ZEPP on a 4 to 1 balun (the 'long' wire to + or red dot )  and the antenna is complete! It should work in most any configuration though I estimate that the paired 17 feet or so will perform best if vertical and the rest as any form of horizontal or sloping. I did the math:



And it works out fine...really! So...after you had your coffee and woke up good,lets do some antenna testing...help me out guys as any antenna that you can build for a dollar just has to work great. I will put my 20 foot expanding fishing pole on top of my speaker tripod and be testing mine in an hour or so,but reports and results may take a bit as I designed and built this antenna before the sun has risen on Sunday Morning....will it work??



Yea, it looks like a winner as an easy to carry and erect BUDGET antenna ( a 50 foot roll of speaker wire from the 99 cent store)
with a 4 to 1 balun and a good antenna tuner make for a antenna that should really perform.

  Tuner testing and performance reports to follow and I hope someone else can spare some time to also add their test reports to this thread.

What??? No speaker wire...just use 17 feet and 51 feet of most any wire you got as this antenna design is FLEXIBLE if nothing else...
Just be sure to keep ALL of the wire off of the ground as even the short side has RF on it and better not to waste your radio power in the dirt.

[Carl]

  WELL,you ask??

 My first impression after only an hour and a half is GREAT!!!
 This simple antenna held on a 20 foot tall expanding fishing pole and the speaker tripod with the long end tossed up in a tree,tied to a partial bottle of water and feed with 25 feet of RG8X ,called Mini8,coax to my LDG antenna tuner and Yaesu 857D tuned everything I tried.

I could not tune 6 meters BUT did tune 10,12,15,17,20,40,80,and 160 Meters...any not listed I just did not try yet.

I had good reports on 40 meters from a group that included Indiana,Ohio,Texas,and Colorado,
I also got a favorable report on 80 meters from Houston,North Dallas,and Amarillo.
On 20 meters a Ham in New York and one in Pennsylvania replied to my CQ---TEST call with fair reports
as conditions were not so good this foggy morning YET.
The performance was good on 20 and 40 and close to my main ,full size inverted "V" on 80,even though the antenna is a bit short for 80 meters.
No extra counterpoises or ground wires were used...and the wire of the antenna will fit in a sandwich bag with the small 4 to 1 balun...PORTABLE!



More PLAYTIME serious testing is needed and hopefully I can also get input from fellow TSP Hams as the antenna takes so little to build and is easy,even for a man who can only walk with a walker today, to put on the air.

Now,what to do with the rest of this day???

[Canadian Prepper]

Thanks for the heads up Carl!

I have a 20ft telescoping pole that I can mount onto my tripod, but extended the rod was too flexible to hold up any weight. This wire design might be the solution.

I was researching some MFJ loop tuners to try in my limited back yard space., but with the Balun and wire costing about on tenth the price I think I had better try this first

[Carl]

Thanks for the heads up Carl!

I have a 20ft telescoping pole that I can mount onto my tripod, but extended the rod was too flexible to hold up any weight. This wire design might be the solution.

I was researching some MFJ loop tuners to try in my limited back yard space., but with the Balun and wire costing about on tenth the price I think I had better try this first

I am having some success this morning with this 'newborn' antenna as it was just an idea this morning and even the 18 gauge speaker wire worked fine at 50 watts I am using...HF conditions are poor in my area and my reports are nearly equal (both ways) on all contacts so far. I did work a station from France on 17 meters this morning though, rough copy both ways.

  The size and disposability ,if needed,of this little antenna is encouraging as I have bought 500 foot rolls of this 18 gauge speaker wire for $22 from AMAZON and the wire or gauge is not critical though the speaker wire does make a neat arrangement.

  I feel that even the modified W3EDP would also work with the thinner speaker wire or heavier lamp cord for strength, This was a reason for my
ZIPP-ZEPP as an exercise to make the antenna smaller as I had not forgotten your need (and many others seeking a smaller,more compact,antenna)

[DonC]

It's an interesting build to say the least! Just when I thought I'd seen every version of the W3EDP, Carl comes up with yet another. Since I have 2 W3EDPs, I'm going to dismantle one in favor of this new design. More to come!

Definitely need to buy a couple more baluns!

[armymars]

For baluns doesn't SOTA have some small ones good for 125 watts?

[idelphic]

I've used speaker wire in the past for dipoles and it works fine...  I have even used CAT5 cable pulled apart...

My Par Electronics EndFed Zep 40/20/10 got shreaded seven years ago when the twins where born (by a kind neighbor), I repaired it with ...  speaker wire.  While I ordered a replacement, it's still running on that speaker wire.

The only thing I lack in building this antenna is the BALUN..  sigh.. guess I"ll have to add that to my next Amazon order.

[Carl]

For baluns doesn't SOTA have some small ones good for 125 watts?

I recall seeing some,yes. I commonly use an MFJ  4 to 1 that is $23.95 from R and L Electronics and is PVC cased for weather and 300 watt capable.
I used an LDG 4 to 1 for the tests,though the final antenna will get a different balun as my little LDG is my easiest to test antennas with.

[Carl]

I've used speaker wire in the past for dipoles and it works fine...  I have even used CAT5 cable pulled apart...

My Par Electronics EndFed Zep 40/20/10 got shreaded seven years ago when the twins where born (by a kind neighbor), I repaired it with ...  speaker wire.  While I ordered a replacement, it's still running on that speaker wire.

The only thing I lack in building this antenna is the BALUN..  sigh.. guess I"ll have to add that to my next Amazon order.

There are balun kits,though only $5 less than a complete balun...I have seen a $10 kit on EBAY with long wait shipping from China that may be an option for some people.Also,a 1 to 1 may work OK with an external wide range tuner with some bands ,though a 4 to 1 and wide band tuner works GREAT.

The real trick here is using a twin conductor wire INSTEAD of ladder line to greatly compact the overall carry size of this antenna and lower the cost and materials search...most any twin conductor (Non Twisted) wire will perform, even lamp cord.

Did anyone notice the math error in my figures above?

Anyone familiar with my BIG STICK VHF/UHF antenna might notice that this ZIPP-ZEPP is just an upscaled version of the Big Stick with a 4 to 1 balun instead of the shunt feed system of the Big Stick. One day,I may try to shunt feed this HF antenna as it should also work...I gotta' do more math for that.

[Smurf Hunter]

There are balun kits,though only $5 less than a complete balun...I have seen a $10 kit on EBAY with long wait shipping from China that may be an option for some people.Also,a 1 to 1 may work OK with an external wide range tuner with some bands ,though a 4 to 1 and wide band tuner works GREAT.

The real trick here is using a twin conductor wire INSTEAD of ladder line to greatly compact the overall carry size of this antenna and lower the cost and materials search...most any twin conductor (Non Twisted) wire will perform, even lamp cord.

Did anyone notice the math error in my figures above?

Anyone familiar with my BIG STICK VHF/UHF antenna might notice that this ZIPP-ZEPP is just an upscaled version of the Big Stick with a 4 to 1 balun instead of the shunt feed system of the Big Stick. One day,I may try to shunt feed this HF antenna as it should also work...I gotta' do more math for that.

Regarding the Chinese eBay balun kits - I just ordered one for myself.  While I probably could have bought a complete one for $10-15 more, one curious aspect is you may configure the kits as 1:1, 4:1 or 9:1 depending on how you wind the donut

I also think it may be a novelty to build my own.  Once I develop opinions, I might find ways to source the raw materials cheaply and make several from scratch in the future.

[Carl]

I also have built a balun or two from a kit and while it is not hard,the kits I used did not save money and by the time I fully built the baluun within a box with hardware it cost more than a purchased balun. I know how and may do it again ,if it represents a money savings.

[blacktalon606]

I also have built a balun or two from a kit and while it is not hard,the kits I used did not save money and by the time I fully built the baluun within a box with hardware it cost more than a purchased balun. I know how and may do it again ,if it represents a money savings.

What exactly is a balun? I know they are used in antennas and you hook your antenna elements and coax to them and blah blah but what is it as someone who has made one? What's in that little box?  And, can't a coil of coax around a ferrite core do the same thing?

[Smurf Hunter]

I'm no expert, but the name is short for "balanced unbalanced".  Coax in unbalanced, while twin lead or ladder line is balanced.  In old time TV with 2 screws to attach antenna on the rear panel, you needed one to connect cable TV from coax.

It's a transformer than matches the impedance on both sides.



Suppose you have a dipole, cut to resonate frequency length.  If you change the shape, move it near metal objects, or lower it near the ground, the impedance will change and your SWR will get tweaked.

You are correct that typically a ferrite core with wires wrapped a certain number of times is inside.  They also can serve as chokes to prevent the feed line coax from resonating in some cases.

[Carl]

What exactly is a balun? I know they are used in antennas and you hook your antenna elements and coax to them and blah blah but what is it as someone who has made one? What's in that little box?  And, can't a coil of coax around a ferrite core do the same thing?

A ferrite core or open air coil of coax is often called a balun as it is intended to prevent RF from travel down the length of coax. A balun as in the 4 to 1 balun is a transformer with a turns ratio to alter impedance from one side to a more manageable impedance on the other, in this case ...at a four to one ratio so as to allow a device (radio or tuner) to accept a wider range of impedance than it would normally function with. If you look at the photo of the balun being tested  http://thesurvivalpodcast.com/forum/index.php?topic=59826.0   ,you will see a ferrous core with wire wrapped about it , the ratio is determined by the square or the turns so a 4 to 1 balun actually has a 2 to 1 ratio of wire wraps on the core ( a 9 to 1 has 3 to 1 ratio)

  I could show more math and graphs but just prefer to accept that a balun does the job it is intended to until the core becomes saturated by RF due to frequency or power level going beyond it's design limits.See me test a 9 to 1 balun at this link.

http://thesurvivalpodcast.com/forum/index.php?topic=59826.0

[Alan Georges]

Balun vs. unun, what's the diff?  Two very similar examples:
Balun: http://www.mtcradio.com/ldg-electronics-rba-4-1-voltage-balun/
Unun: http://www.mtcradio.com/ldg-electronics-ru-4-1-unun/

From digging around on the web, it looks like as best as I can tell (and I could be very wrong) a balun goes through the transformer while an unun goes across the transformer.  Anybody got any information on this?

It looks like the zipp zepp is sort of unbalanced and should maybe take an unun?  Or does it make any difference here?

From the blurb, it looks like the balun shown is for coupling coax to undeniably balanced systems, like a length of ladder line feeding a dipole.  OTOH, the unun is for coupling coax to a random vertical pole and a set of radial ground plane wires.  But what about these in-between cases that we're doing here?

[Carl]

Balun vs. unun, what's the diff?  Two very similar examples:
Balun: http://www.mtcradio.com/ldg-electronics-rba-4-1-voltage-balun/
Unun: http://www.mtcradio.com/ldg-electronics-ru-4-1-unun/

From digging around on the web, it looks like as best as I can tell (and I could be very wrong) a balun goes through the transformer while an unun goes across the transformer.  Anybody got any information on this?

It looks like the zipp zepp is sort of unbalanced and should maybe take an unun?  Or does it make any difference here?

From the blurb, it looks like the balun shown is for coupling coax to undeniably balanced systems, like a length of ladder line feeding a dipole.  OTOH, the unun is for coupling coax to a random vertical pole and a set of radial ground plane wires.  But what about these in-between cases that we're doing here?

An UNUN will work but I have found a 4 to 1 CURRENT BALUN to get more radiated power out with a field strength meter test.
A voltage  4 to 1 was OK...within 15% of the Current balun

[Canadian Prepper]

  WELL,you ask??

 My first impression after only an hour and a half is GREAT!!!
 This simple antenna held on a 20 foot tall expanding fishing pole and the speaker tripod with the long end tossed up in a tree,tied to a partial bottle of water and feed with 25 feet of RG8X ,called Mini8,coax to my LDG antenna tuner and Yaesu 857D tuned everything I tried.

I could not tune 6 meters BUT did tune 10,12,15,17,20,40,80,and 160 Meters...any not listed I just did not try yet.

I had good reports on 40 meters from a group that included Indiana,Ohio,Texas,and Colorado,
I also got a favorable report on 80 meters from Houston,North Dallas,and Amarillo.
On 20 meters a Ham in New York and one in Pennsylvania replied to my CQ---TEST call with fair reports
as conditions were not so good this foggy morning YET.
The performance was good on 20 and 40 and close to my main ,full size inverted "V" on 80,even though the antenna is a bit short for 80 meters.
No extra counterpoises or ground wires were used...and the wire of the antenna will fit in a sandwich bag with the small 4 to 1 balun...PORTABLE!



More PLAYTIME serious testing is needed and hopefully I can also get input from fellow TSP Hams as the antenna takes so little to build and is easy,even for a man who can only walk with a walker today, to put on the air.

Now,what to do with the rest of this day???

I am trying to visualize what you're talking about and getting a bit confused. It sounds to me as though this is simply a matter of connecting 50ft of speaker wire to a 4:1 Balun, and making sure to keep the wire off of the ground.

But what's going on with the fishing rod, throwing another end into a tree, etc.? I am trying to visualize how I'd set this up quickly in the back yard, and something isn't computing.

If it's easier to get the antenna higher up in my QTH (i.e. by getting one end higher into a tree and sloping down to the balun just off the ground) I could see it give a different radiation pattern that might be better on some bands than the W3EDP, but I'm still trying to compute what it might do. Besides that, it sounds like a simple way of augmenting a $50 balun (our exchange rate has been horrible lately) for quick portable ops.

[Carl]

I am trying to visualize what you're talking about and getting a bit confused. It sounds to me as though this is simply a matter of connecting 50ft of speaker wire to a 4:1 Balun, and making sure to keep the wire off of the ground.

But what's going on with the fishing rod, throwing another end into a tree, etc.? I am trying to visualize how I'd set this up quickly in the back yard, and something isn't computing.

If it's easier to get the antenna higher up in my QTH (i.e. by getting one end higher into a tree and sloping down to the balun just off the ground) I could see it give a different radiation pattern that might be better on some bands than the W3EDP, but I'm still trying to compute what it might do. Besides that, it sounds like a simple way of augmenting a $50 balun (our exchange rate has been horrible lately) for quick portable ops.

The antenna is,starting with the 4 to 1 balun....17 feet of two conductor wire,and 34 MORE feet of ONE CONDUCTOR wire added to the + side of the balus  so you wind up with the balun having 17 feet on one side and 51 feet on the other side. I ised an expanding fishing pole as a support as I have no trees in my yard and I was able to throw the end of the wire over a neighbors tree...YOU WANT THE ANTENNA OFF THE GROUND.

  This is the same as the W3EDP except that two conductor wire replaces the heavier ladder line and the total length is 51 feet. It is just a shorter,simpler,W3EDP varient that is more portable and not too hard to get on the air.

My buddy DON has cut one of his W3EDP antennas down to 51 feet to test though the real favorite part of this antenna is that ANY TWO CONDUCTOR WIRE appears to work fine and the final antenna is smaller and lighter,along with shorter ,so as to be easy to deploy. I can't even walk without holding on to something solid and yet I am able to deploy and use this simple antenna.

  Regular wire can also be used with one side 17 feet long and the other side 51 feet long. Is this the answer to all of your antenna desires? NO ,but it is an easy to carry and easy to deploy antenna that offers a good performance 6 to 40 meter antenna with acceptable 80 and 160 performance.

Look at the time, it is just after 4 AM and here I am on the forum...I just don't sleep so good these days.

[Canadian Prepper]

Thanks Carl!

So if I understand correctly, you attach speaker wire (which has two strands of wire) to the plus side of the Balun, but at !7 feet, you cut off one of the two strands, leaving the remaining strand continuing to a length of 50 feet?

I could see the lighter wire making it easier to lob the longer end into a higher section of branches, so that notwithstanding the loss of reception on 80m, it might perform better on 40m and some of the higher bands than a W3EDP that's essentially only 20ft up right now (needs to be tightened up after all these months up in the yard).

Is that the right idea, or am I still missing something?

[Carl]

Thanks Carl!

So if I understand correctly, you attach speaker wire (which has two strands of wire) to the plus and MINUSside of the Balun,only two wires to 17 feet,the total length of the minus side and the PLUS wire a total of 51 feet but at !7 feet, you cut off one of the two strands, leaving the remaining strand continuing to a length of 50 feet? Two conductor,speaker wire is used instead of the larger ladder line , this is just a shorter W3EDP type antenna design

I could see the lighter wire making it easier to lob the longer end into a higher section of branches, so that notwithstanding the loss of reception on 80m, it might perform better on 40m and some of the higher bands than a W3EDP that's essentially only 20ft up right now (needs to be tightened up after all these months up in the yard).

Is that the right idea, or am I still missing something?

The ZIPP ZEPP is a smaller ,lighter version of the modified W3EDP without need for the ladder line...the PAIR of conductors ,one + and one Minus are side by side for the first 17 feet...THEN only one conductor,on the Positive leg,continues to a total of 51 feet from the balun. While I used 18 gauge speaker wire for the prototype...I suggest 14 gauge wire for a more permanent antenna as to withstand wind and weather better.

[Greekman]

So what happens when you start separating the two strands?

edit: just before turning in for the night i found this, trying to answer my question
Off-center-fed Full-wave Doublet Antenna
No38 at http://www.n4lcd.com/wireantennas/

[Carl]

So what happens when you start separating the two strands?

As the antenna works fine with two wires,a 17 foot and a 51 foot,as long as BOTH wires are kept off the earth by at least 1 meter,the antenna will work just as designed when connected to a good tuner.

[Greekman]

carl you beat me to the second!

[Carl]

carl you beat me to the second!

This 51 foot antenna is easy to toss in a tree and low cost,except for the $25 balun...the thing it does best is allow use of all HF Ham bands with a good tuner and easy to carry and deploy as there are bigger,better,antennas though few easier to make or use.

[Smurf Hunter]

I may have solved the $25 balun problem.  I ordered a $10 balun similar to this:


http://www.giga.co.za/ocart/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=218

That link includes good details on how to wind the toroid, and the schematics for 1:1, 4:1 and 9:1.
Also includes a 4:1 VOLTAGE design if you think you might need that.

I just got mine completed last night, so no testing likely until this weekend.

1:4 Current Balun

Typically unbalanced = 50/75 ohms and balanced = 200/300 ohms.

[armymars]

Sweet.

[Carl]

  Just a note on testing a balun with an analyzer or a low power (5 watt or less) and a resistor of 200 ohms and capable of the power level used.
For the analyzer scan through frequencies that indicate between 35 and 65 ohms or so to find frequency covered by the balun.
For radio testing a 200 ohm 10 watt or so resistor and watch for 1.5 or less SWR indication across Ham bands as often baluns saturate around 10 meters and only good ones make it to 6 meters.

[Smurf Hunter]

  Just a note on testing a balun with an analyzer or a low power (5 watt or less) and a resistor of 200 ohms and capable of the power level used.
For the analyzer scan through frequencies that indicate between 35 and 65 ohms or so to find frequency covered by the balun.
For radio testing a 200 ohm 10 watt or so resistor and watch for 1.5 or less SWR indication across Ham bands as often baluns saturate around 10 meters and only good ones make it to 6 meters.

On paper, the Chinese kit is stated as 3-30mhz. 

I need to improve my testing and diagnostic abilities at home.

[Carl]

  It is easy to use a resistor and SWR meter,usually built in modern radios, to test the balun as it works without the antenna.
Your kit will do just fine though a 200 ohm resistor (non inductive for 5 or 10 watt) is a budget part for testing as it will show 4 to 1 SWR
when placed across an SWR meter and 1 to 1 when used after the 4 to one balun while a 450 Ohm will test a 9 to one balun etc etc.

While an analyzer is cool,I would not buy one now due to cost when your SWR meter and radio will work just fine with a 50,100,200,450 NON-INDUCTIVE 10 watt resistor ,or higher power as the 50 is a good dummy load and 100 should indicate 2 to 1 SWR etc etc  and don't forget that parallel resistors HALF each other so TWO 100 ohm in parallel will make a 50 ohm double the wattage dummy load etc.

[Carl]

  This is a report from a local(to me) Han using the 51 foot ZIPP ZEPP just tossed over his roof as he is in a no antenna neighborhood.

Made my first contact on 15m today on it (to Lodi, CA but he said I was weak—I only tried 25W) and multiple digital contacts on 40m.  I could also hear people on 17m and 10m but didn’t get through.  I heard tons on traffic on 20m but it was a zoo with everyone doing contest stuff and no real conversations.  I’m dying to find out if it works on 80m tonight!

Looks like a happy camper as he is new to HF and I gave him the prototype 51 foot antenna that I made with 18 gauge speaker wire.