Why does it seem as if...

[BadgerAngel]

...Okay, so I've posted before that The Husband, when given a hypothetical situation, went for the go steal from Wal-Mart scenario.  Last night I spoke with a male friend in Indy and said something about the grid going down, and he gave the same type of answer; e.g, "I'll be okay.  I have firearms." 

*HEADDESK*

I tried to point out to him that ripping off others is not a viable option.  First of all, because he would likely run out of resources, or people to steal from, and second, that he would likely run out of ammo.  He acknowledged that this was not really a sustainable option.

I did not tell him he would most likely get gut-shot and die.  I was and am sick, and my brain wasn't working quickly enough. 

So why then, ladies, (and gents, if you would care to please answer this) does it seem as if most of the men I talk to, when I give them these types of situations, are more likely to immediately jump to the raider viewpoint rather than thinking about getting ready ahead of time?  I honestly don't understand this.  When I point out flaws in their "plan", they'll accede that there are flaws, and yes, to be prepared is better than not, but dang it, these are intelligent people that for the most part, aren't likely to just lay down and die if something happened to the system.  My friend is a geologist and a water safety inspector for the state.  He's not a sheep, he's just not thinking.  And if the quick reaction to the grid going down, or a pandemic and loss of support systems that way, or anything else SHTF/TEOTWAWKI is for the guys to start raiding, then we're going to have a lot of dead guys in the streets from that.

How do we get them to think things through/just plain THINK instead of going with the machismo/quick reaction?

Gentlemen: please understand that I am not meaning to belittle or speak badly of y'all.  I am honestly concerned about this, and I almost always hear this kind of thing when I try to bring up prepping to a male, and not a female.  A female, when I bring up prepping, will start talking about learning how to sew, or how to can, or their garden and saving seeds if they can.  I see this as a serious difference in viewpoints that we have to find ways to work with/around.   

[TexDaddy]

I, for one, do not accept your premise.

Yes, there are people like this, but the fact the male to female ratio on this forum is 7:1 is some evidence against what you are suggesting.

Idiots come in all genders, colors and religions. Stupid knows no boundaries. If you read the thread Heavy G started http://thesurvivalpodcast.com/forum/index.php?topic=3239.0 you will notice that quite a few men have trouble convincing their female partner about this prepping stuff.

Now, as to the basic question, it may relate to how most (but not nearly all) violent criminals are male. IMO, because most men are stronger than most (but again, not all) women, more men will likely resort to force before most women will.

[BadgerAngel]

I was not suggesting that y'all are all like this, and I sincerely apologize for that seeming to come through, Tex.

I simply seem to run into the "raider" mindset more with males than females, and I'm trying to come up with ways to discuss and point out the flaws in that course of action.

[TexDaddy]

...I'm trying to come up with ways to discuss and point out the flaws in that course of action.

There is no cure for stupid.

[ladygaura]

Could also be that it's us ladies who are more used to (on a day by day basis) keeping the pantry stocked. It's easier for us to see prepping as a sort of "expanded pantry". Certainly, some guys can also do this too, for instance military sorts who know all about supply lines and such. I'm not sure why some guys would fall into a "raider" mindset but certainly some supplies (water!!) would probably be impossible even to steal after a while. I don't see it as any sort of option.

[archer]

Could also be some of the 'Pirate' Fantasy mystic.

[amanadoo]

Could also be some of the 'Pirate' Fantasy mystic.

THIS was exactly what I was going to say.

[soupbone]

Badger Angel, you are asking the same question that I have been asking almost since my first day on the forum. It seems that there are an awful lot of guys out there who are very willing to resort to violent acts of one form or another, either offensively - as in raiding for supplies - or defensively (and the examples of this are too numerous to mention).

I have often wondered how many of the aforementioned folks have actually used, or been the victims of, the violence they were advocating. My gut tells me there is an inverse geometric relationship between the levels of threatened violence and actual experience with it. If you will notice, there are certain folks on the forum who you just know have "seen the elephant". These people almost never want to resort to violent acts - they will, but only as a last resort.

It's sad, really, and would be funny except that I can see them trying to imprint their views on their families - "No vacation this year, kids, because daddy needs a new main battle rifle, 'cause TEOTWAWKI is just around the corner, and if I don't get this gun, the zombies will eat us........."

I just read the comments, or listen to them, sigh, and chalk it up to inexperience and ignorance mixed with a good dose of testosterone.

soupbone

[Thox Spuddy]

It's because when we were little boys they hid Ken & Barbie from us and forced us to play with toy guns and swords.

[Dawgus]

Not to derail the thread too much, but at least this guy has firearms. I have a good friend who says the same thing.......except he has his sword. 

 Seriously...he has this fantasy of defending his home and raiding others, with his sword and Celtic garb ala Braveheart. It makes me chuckle every time he says it.

[aman]

Could also be that it's us ladies who are more used to (on a day by day basis) keeping the pantry stocked. It's easier for us to see prepping as a sort of "expanded pantry". Certainly, some guys can also do this too, for instance military sorts who know all about supply lines and such. I'm not sure why some guys would fall into a "raider" mindset but certainly some supplies (water!!) would probably be impossible even to steal after a while. I don't see it as any sort of option.

This is a great answer.

I have always thought that if I could have a conversation with my long dead grandmother about prepping she would say 'What are you talking about? That is what I do every day'.

A lot of this wisdom has been passed down through the generations mainly (but not exclusively) on the female side.

I did receive a lot of guidance on cooking and budgeting and the like from my mother but I did not seem to pick as much of it up and apply it as much as my sisters even though I'm pretty sure my sisters didn't receive any more coaching than the boys.

It always amazed me when my younger sister seemed to transform from an annoying little girl into a knowledge rich woman as soon as she had her first child.

It was as if she didn't listen to a word for years but it all just went into her brain and was stored there until she needed it and then BAM! she was a mother over night.

A lot of what my mother taught me has been wasted over the years and now I am re discovering it, to listen to me, you'd think I'd invented it.

We like to think of ourselves as protectors, we need to be seen as the ones who are in control and will provide for our families in times of strife.

When the time comes, just humour us  while we run around like headless chickens for a bit. We will settle down eventually

aman

[archer]

I'll offer a few more possible reasons:
-easier to fantasize about being rambo and taking stuff that other people WORKED to store up. after all, gardening/taking care of an orchard/raising animals/storing food is hard work! takes time, energy, and learning...
-have some hollywood fantasy going on in their heads where the 'enemies' are just figures from a video game who dont have real lives/families or even exist

[Alan Georges]

Last night I spoke with a male friend in Indy and said something about the grid going down, and he gave the same type of answer; e.g, "I'll be okay.  I have firearms."

A good canned response to this kind of asshattery is: "So...  You're saying that you want to eat a bullet?"  I've used it once, and the effect was as if I'd whacked my friend with a clue-by-four.  Use it cautiously, only when really called for.

[archer]

A good canned response to this kind of asshattery is: "So...  You're saying that you want to eat a bullet?"  I've used it once, and the effect was as if I'd whacked my friend with a clue-by-four.  Use it cautiously, only when really called for.

i like that...

[BadgerAngel]

Thank you all very much for your insights.  I've been trying to point my friend to this forum and to TSP, he's just being difficult about it, which irks me.  I know that he would agree with a lot of the viewpoints, et cetera, if he'd just get over the "pirate/raider mystique" and listen and learn.  I have to remember, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.  I may try to use the "Contagion" movie questions I saw in that thread to make him think if he goes to see it. 

I'm scared for him because he lives in a suburb of Indianapolis, and I think if a TEOTWAWKI or SHTF situation hit, he and his family could be trapped up there with no way to get out.   

@Dawgus:  Yeah, I have a friend in Texas who's the same way.  He I can't make think, and I've honestly given up trying.  It's sad, but there are some people you just can't get out of the fantasy. 

@Soup:  Exactly.  Experience with hardscrabble life as a child/young adult toughened me to a point.  I have never been in a firefight, and I can honestly say I never want to be, and will do everything I can not to be.  I have been shot at, once, and that was not an experience I would care to repeat.  Ever.

@Alan Georges:  Unfortunately, I am under the weather and was not thinking quickly, else that would have been an excellent answer.  And if he gives me that kind of thought process again in reference to the grid going down or something similar, I may well say that.  Thank you.

[P_Coltrane]

My guess, without knowing the individuals who gave these responses, is it is displaying false bravado used to mask their insecurity.  By answering "I don't know" they must acknowledge their own deficiencies (who wants to do that in front of acquaintances).  This poorly thought out response seems to convey recognition for the need to respond without actually giving it any thought while appearing to have done so.

My other guess would be that if your question struck a nerve, asking them again at a later date will elicit a more sensible response.  If not, you may just be conversing with a lot of  jackasses.

[Thox Spuddy]

You can have a discussion about this, but the fact is aggressive intrusion will occur. Just look at Wal-mart on black Friday and the way women violently attack one another to get their hands on a carton of Hershey candy bars. People do this. Men maintain and restore order with God in their guts and guns in their hands. It is men that have liberated us from the tyranny of piracy. Men who threaten to rob families that have guns to  protect their families do not live. Men protect their families.

[kid_couteau]

Just a thought here

For those that either do not know how to prep or are too lazy to prep it is easier and more "macho" to say they will raid others.

I see this sort of mindset all the time in some of the youth I work with.

Lazy, cheat on tests, steal from their own classmates or even me from time to time.

Kid

[Truik]

For those that either do not know how to prep or are too lazy to prep it is easier and more "macho" to say they will raid others.

I see this sort of mindset all the time in some of the youth I work with.

Sure, I agree completely. This is most likely the case with most of the people we encounter who say these things.

The problem is...which ones are which? If only one out of twenty would act on their words, that is still a five percent chance you would have a problem and a one hundred percent chance that they are out there somewhere thinking up comparably idiotic plans for other, similar mischief.

On any given night, in any given instance, with any one of those people I don't know, I try to not allow myself to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Just sayin'

[Thox Spuddy]

There are numerous topics in the forum that cover this subject, one about Mormons'. Perhaps it is time to throw them all together in their own category?

[dani3077]

Hubby says it is easier to carry a gun and some ammo than a couple of cases of corn.

Guys seem to have the get out of dodge, travel light, survive off the land mentality. Women seem to have the bunker down, stock-up on food mentality. As I tell my husband, that is all fine and dandy, but I want to see you do that with the kids! (3)

[ladygaura]

What if there's no corn to steal from anyone in a 10-mile radius? And what does he mean by "live off the land"? You can't live on rabbits alone, and even rabbits are going to get mighty scarce after a while. When all these raider sorts are going to be reduced to eating purslane-- assuming they even know what purslane is-- because the rabbits didn't play out very well... well, I think a few of them might see the value of prepping-- far too late, of course.

Hubby and I were talking after the Expo yesterday (his first full-on encounter with prepping type stuff) and he said he'd probably be heavy into the #10 can type of prepping. (we can't necessarily do that as a family due to allergies). He said the convenience factor would have come into play. Don't get me wrong, he's officially okay with the self-sufficient homestead plan that is our plan, but he never would have thought of that as a guy. And this, ladies, is a guy who was raised by his mother and his grandmother and is far more domesticated than most. Hey, he can even sew buttons, okay? So I can very easily see a less-domesticated male turning his nose up at the cans of corn. It doesn't register as easy, quick, or convenient to them.

[Cedar]

Guys seem to have the get out of dodge, travel light, survive off the land mentality.

And 90% of the ones I know like this, I give a 6 week or less survivability rate. Depending on their location and time of year.

Women seem to have the bunker down, stock-up on food mentality.

None of the women I know outside of this forum are like this although they 'say' they stock up.. they are really only getting some extra toilet paper and such. I do both. Bug In if I have the choice, plans for Bug Out if I don't have a choice. And I am prepared for both.

I have talked to 4 of my women friends and my brother/his wife. I will talk to no one else about it from now on other than on this forum as I do not want to make myself a target. It would be nice to have a 'survival community' of like minded people close by, but I believe it will not happen for me.

Cedar

[Roundabouts]

I think it is a knee jerk response sometimes and they just respond with what they know or have seen (movies tv news)  Have a gun it will solve your problems.  Take from the rich give to the poor (me) robin hood mentality.  It seems sometimes for some guys guns are an extension of their "manhood"  Powerful and strong.  To run and hide may be considered a sign of weakness.  For me my first thought goes to get the kids/ or animals out of harms way got to have food water and where could we go to hide.  My thoughts instantly go to within from within the family unit.  Where men
(in my experience) instantly go to the perimeter or out side the family unit for the family unit.  Example we want a better life hubby will think about going out to make more money get a second job.  Me I will think about eating healthier making the home function better bring family members closer. 

I also think that sometimes the knee jerk reaction is a response that does not really include women and children.  Meaning they are thinking about taking from another man.  Not really going to the point of raiding someones house and shooting a woman and her 3 kids and baby point blank just so he can steal their food.  Not to say that some people wouldn't do that.  Thats why we need protection.  I think a majority of people that would do that are to some degree already behaving that way.  If that is the type of people you are talking to then of course you ought not be.  I do understand that extreme circumstances can make any one take extreme measures.

I know my own hubby said with his guns and dads guns we would be ok.  He would hunt and it would be fine.  My response was so do you think others would think of that as well?  Do you think that there truly is enough game around to feed everyone and their families?  If you were to hunt and you were not the only hunter what do you think the odds would be of you being in someone else's crosshairs before they took a shot at that deer.  (hunting "accidents" happen all the time in the best of circumstances)  Same would be going on a raid.  Do you think you would be the only one with a gun?  How much ammo would you have to have and carry with you.  Do you really think you are a good enough shot to take out 2 or more with a single bullet.  And then have enough to take everyone out that has a gun?  Hubby now truly has thought about it and will be the first to say that thinking a gun is going to solve all your problems is BS.  Now when we hear that we laugh and say oh yeah I can see it now you in your suite crawling on the ground in the rain at night up to some house that is well protected dodging bullets breaking down the door shooting  everyone with 1-2 bullets loading up 100 pounds of food and water and slithering away into the night.  But I guess it is doable cuz you will take a break and play video games before you slither away. 

The reality is most people don't realize the brain power planning physical strength and stamina it would truly take to pull off something like that.  Guns are not light now add ammo and the food you plan on carrying.  Average  over weight out of shape joe schmo couch potato can no way pull it off by himself. 

So those that keep responding the same i will kill for food and take yours.  I would say fine I guess I would have to take you at your word we wont be friends any more. Because I can't be friends with someone who says they will kill me & my family given a chance.  I think in most cases it's truly just a way to get you to stop talking about it with them.  Mainly because they are scared lazy irresponsible and just don't want to be bothered after all if you don't think about it or talk about it it can't happen.  That way they can still maintain control which I think the gun and raiding response also implies on some level.  They can have control.

[dani3077]

What if there's no corn to steal from anyone in a 10-mile radius? And what does he mean by "live off the land"?

He just meant it was easier to leave (bug out) with ammo than try and take all of the food I have stockpiled. Living off the land-hunt, fish, edible plants, etc.

I do agree with Roundabouts though when she said they are thinking about taking from another man. They don't consider women and children. I too have brought up "so do you think others would think of that as well' when it comes to hunting and fishing. He then proceeded to tell me all of the edible bugs in the area. OK so your kids wont eat fish NOW and you think they will eat BUGS? Good luck with that one!

Mostly I just roll my eyes at him, wish him luck with it, and continue stockpiling our needs.

[Cedar]

He then proceeded to tell me all of the edible bugs in the area. OK so your kids wont eat fish NOW and you think they will eat BUGS? Good luck with that one!

*ROTFLMAO* No kiddin'.. and here I am who HATES BEANS and PEAS!!!

Cedar- who in January is challenging herself to only eat out of her pantry and buy no food for a month (just to check for holes since it has been 2 years since I have lived like that and just rebuilt the pantry)

[BadgerAngel]

Hey y'all,


Thanks again.  I think I'm going to wait a while and bring this up with him again in a few months.  No, dear God, no, he's not the type of person that would kill women and children!

We discuss things such as the grid going down, or the way society is going, or the economy, and he sees the collapse coming as well as I do -- better in some ways.  He's just still sort of in normalcy bias mode.  He can think about it abstractly, but not in a "real" sense, and certainly not in a way that shows him alternatives. 

Again, I remind myself, I can lead the horse to water.  I cannot make it drink.

Thanks again!

Badger

[Roundabouts]

Shared this with hubby and it got him thinking and us talking!  Wow so thanks for that. His response was that guys tend to fix the problems as they come up.  If there is no problem now then there is nothing to fix.  Also those that have the idea of hiding behind a gun have a false sense of security.  They better be willing to die if they are going out looking to take.  Even hunting and fishing would be extremely dangerous because you are watching for game and you have to watch out for the other hunters.  unless you are in deep deep in the wilderness.   If that is your game plan then it would seem logical that you would be hunting now and getting your skills in tip top shape.  It's not like you can just go out and get a deer without skill.  You have to know what you are doing.  He also had the thought that sometimes to say well I have a gun is meant more for intimidation to get people to back off. 

In any case his whole response and the fact that he was even talking about it at all sorta backs up his first statement that "if there is a problem to fix then we get on it if not then whats the point. " Apparently he saw your question as a problem and he felt compelled to give input freely.    I really was quite shocked that he just spewed opinions since most of the time it is dang near impossible to get him to open up. 

This has given me new ideas on how to enhance our lines of communication. Presenting a discussion or problem as it has come from a thread here.   Can't wait to see how it works out     So even if I haven't been able to help you out you sure helped me out thanks!

[kid_couteau]

My guess

Its easy to be the raider [in theory]

Romantically you grab your rifle and drape yourself in the American flag and go off to do Red Dawn

It is not easy to be a prepper.

Example: Last night I decided to take our brand new generator and start it up for a test run. You do this so you know it will work when you need it right?

Well it was not so romantic as just give two pulls and you have power. I had to add oil, add gas and pull till I saw the gates of Heaven. Still nothing.
Well having some small engine background and my Dad being a master at it I called him. After we tested it for fire and gave it a shot of starter fluid we were off to the races. So in the end yes we won and everything is fine but it was work to get it right.

Everything about prepping is work. Many men do not want to have to learn new skills and perfect them so they fallback to either I will be a raider or I am just going to come to your house to stay.

Only my opinion and worth just what you paid for it.
Kid Couteau

[Mr. Bill]

Hey, kid_couteau, thanks for posting in a topic from 7 years ago and bringing it up to the top -- I'd never read this one, and it's a good discussion.

One of the things that originally attracted me to this forum is that we don't have a lot of the false-macho survivalist-with-a-gun fantasies here.  I think, for some people (yes, usually male), it's more fun to imagine a complete breakdown of civilization, rather than merely difficult and dangerous times.  With a complete breakdown, there are no rules (as Hollywood and survivalist fiction portray it).  Raiding Walmart doesn't make you a looter, because the merchandise is abandoned and free for the taking -- all you have to do is fight off the zombie biker gangs who are the real looters and don't deserve to live.

Lately, my wife has been the one pushing me to do more prepping -- specifically, assembling bug-out bags so that we can leave rapidly in case of a wildfire.  We've had a couple of practice sessions this summer due to nearby fires.  Turned out that "Don't worry, we'll just grab what we need and go" actually meant 2 hours of packing, and was completely unrealistic.  Re-testing with bug-out bags pre-packed showed a big improvement.