Rapid .22 fire as defense... would it be useful?

[jpbearit]

Buy the best gun you can afford. Buy the best gun you can afford to shoot in practice. OFTEN!!! You can make up alot of the inadequacies of your budget with payments of time and investments to skill.

The rest is just aguments on the fine points of physics. 

[endurance]

The OP asked about the .22 in a SHTF/EOTW scenario. To repeat and reinforce what many have said, a key element here is sustainability. If (or when) a serious event occurs, it could be months or years before things return to "normal". Even then, there is no telling what new laws, policies or procedures might be enacted to curtail firearms ownership or ammunition availability.

...

For the cost of a couple of thousand rounds of "high power" ammo, you can have a multi-generational supply of quality .22 ammo. And you can stock up without attracting unwanted attention.

Be careful with statistics, though. While a .22 may not seem - or be - as "effective" as a larger caliber, that does not mean it is harmless. As with high powered air guns, successful employment requires a different technique - precision placement - regardless of whether you are using rapid or slow aimed fire.

soupbone

I agree with you in some ways, but then I stop and think about what's realistic.  I just don't think I'm "that good" that I can survive firing 10,000 round without having someone on the other side getting lucky and hitting me.  If my number one goal in any lethal force engagement is to have it end as quickly as possible so I stop being at risk, then I want to be firing a round that has the highest probability of stopping the fight with a single hit, whether it's to the opponent's forearm, calf or thorax.  Every second longer that the fight goes on is a second that I'm taking incoming fire and sooner or later the SOB just might get lucky and hit a family member.

Do I still want 10k rounds of .22?  Absolutely, because there is no more cost effective way to train, acquire small game, and deal with nuisances on the 'stead.  But when there's lead heading my way, I'm sure that a thousand rounds of .308 (or .223) will be a more effective at stopping the fight, so that's my first choice in that situation.  If they're behind a tree, I don't care.  If they're wearing Level II or Level III body armor, I don't care.  If they're jacked up on crank and I hit them in the shoulder, I don't care.  The fight is over and my family is safe.

[BillyS]

Well, there's a lot of advice. After all of it, think about this:

Are your shots well-placed?

If yes, then your answer is yes. Nobody much likes a belly full of bullets.

If no, then your guess is as good as anyone else's. You'll either scare them off or they'll keep coming until you send a few rounds properly home.

And the answer is the same for any other kind of firearm. If you're hitting 'em where it hurts, you're weapon is effective. If not, it is not.

[endurance]

Despite extensive quality training over a period of over 25 years, countless hours of training, and the best equipment I can afford, I still don't know if my shots will be well placed. 

If two of New York's finest can fire 84 rounds and only get 14 hits between them (and have the suspect live), why should I believe that I'm going to hit 95% of the time at a time I'm in grave fear for my life?  I'm at least hoping to hit something with enough ooomph to stop the fight.

[chrisdfw]

Despite extensive quality training over a period of over 25 years, countless hours of training, and the best equipment I can afford, I still don't know if my shots will be well placed. 

If two of New York's finest can fire 84 rounds and only get 14 hits between them (and have the suspect live), why should I believe that I'm going to hit 95% of the time at a time I'm in grave fear for my life?  I'm at least hoping to hit something with enough ooomph to stop the fight.

All true, I also train extensively, but have never had anyone shooting back. 

I know it probably won't help to say it now, but take your time and score a hit, you can never miss fast enough to win a firefight.

If you are at home, presumably you can have ammo stored, use a larger caliber if possible.
Where 22 might be good is bugging out on foot, where you have to carry all your supplies, you can carry far more 22 than other calibers.

[Mike Honcho]

Yes... I bought my first .22 rifle because my daughter was turning 13 and wanted to go shooting for her birthday. At the time I only owned a 12 ga and a 9mm handgun, neither in my opinion are good starting weapons for a young first time shooter.

Okay I admit that I was embarrassed even buying the little gun in a store full of grown men, but that was my own ignorance. It wasn't long before I fell in love with that little Plinkster and not soon after got my own 10/22 (takedown) with the BX-25 mags...Both .22's are an essential part of my preps, including self defense they are reliable, accurate and cost effective plus my daughter loved it! And wifey who didn't like shooting loves it now after seeing my daughter be so excited, so now both of them understand the mechanics of the weapon... It's a win - win! Yes if there's a bump in the night imma grab my 9mm, but there's no knocking having mama backing me up with the ol' sturdy .22LR 

-MH

[cbowseriii]

This is why I love this forum tons of great information!

[phuttan]

22 rifles, pistols and lots of ammo are part of my preps. They wouldn't be my first choice for defense, but they would be among my top choices for bugging out on foot or generally living in the woods. This is for all the reasons mentioned by others. I consider cheap accurate food procuring tools to be top choices. And the ability to carry a thousand rounds or more is sweet. The ability to afford thousands of rounds to cache is another selling point. I would carry one in SHTF and would defend myself with it if necessary. So I have to say that I would agree that it's adequate in the right hands.

If you look at it the way I do then train with it as often as you can. By train I means tactical drills, speed drills and training to instinctively target soft areas like the neck and face. Do all the stress drills that you can come up with. Multiple targets, moving targets and good/bad guy drills are a good start. Do what you can where you train. But train with what you think you'll carry. Learn all it's weaknesses as well as it's strengths. Make it your own.

And have fun.

Pat

[FrugalFannie]

I was thinking about this and I think the advantages of using this as a defense are 1) ammo is cheap now and easy to stockup on and 2) because it's cheap, and hopefully plentiful when SHTF from your preps, you could put a rifle/pistol in the hands of someone with little or no experience and not worry about how many rounds they were expending, relative to a more expensive caliber.

[devildog78]

I agree with most of the posts, but I must say a nice grouping of well placed shots to the brain housing group will drop just about any oncoming threat.  Not to mention follow up shots from a small caliber are easy to attain.  What it boils down to is if I have a larger caliber that is what I am going to use.  If I am all out of the big stuff, I would definitely rather use the .22 than a rock.

[David in MN]

To revive something old...

Paul Harrell did a little testing on this back in 2016.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_w4Z5azEPWk

I'm not saying it's my first choice but I was surprised how effective the *right* hollow point ammo could be. And if that's all your budget/shoulder/ears can take it can be put into use.