Armory, Self Defense, And EDC > Firearm Self Defense

My doorbell rang at 1AM this morning

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theBINKYhunter:
I don't believe it's an issue of not liking a gun or finding one that fits. She's done an Appleseed with me and used my 22 for it and enjoyed her time. She's a good shot with my subcompact XD. Her agreeing with getting a second pistol is a win that I'll take and not force the issue. I don't have a ton of time to get to the range and I'm not a 'gun guy' so it's OK with me. Would I love a safe full of awesome firearms that are unique? Of course. Would I love to get a fully matched Garand? Absolutely. But those things will most likely not happen and I'm ok with that. Maybe in a year or two we see where we're at and I can look at bringing a shotgun back into the home but for now I'm in a good place.

Chemsoldier:

--- Quote from: mountainmoma on April 13, 2020, 11:05:33 AM ---Because the in the high crime areas it is illegal to carry.  Seriously,  many parts of America have laws that do not allow carry, open or concealed. 

--- End quote ---
That is not exactly accurate.  There is no state in the US where you simply cannot carry concealed, short of in the off limits locations as defined in state law.  As you were hitting on, some states are very tight with their permits (its effectively impossible to get one in Hawaii, so I'm told), but you can still carry if you can get the permit.  But even the restrictions on the permits can be heavily dependent on the county.  My understanding is that parts of upstate NY it isn't terribly hard.

Also, I am unsure that it can exactly be drawn to high crime areas.  There are no meaningful restrictions to carry in many high crime areas.  Atlanta, Detroit, St. Louis and other areas renowned for criminal activity have no real restrictions on carry particular to their high crime areas.  Hell, St. Louis is part of MO, which has constitutional carry. 

I do acknowledge that a lot of Cali its hard as hell to get a permit, and that Cali is a state with a large population and land space.  Throw in NYC and there is another big chunk of population (though NYC is no longer the city of Taxi Driver and Dog Day Afternoon).  However, geographically speaking, most of the US's land mass is under carry laws far more liberal than in 1970, and a fair amount of carry in the US prior to that was capricious.  If you were of the right tribe you would not get hassled for carry, but that was totally dependent on the constabulary liking you. 

But outside of the permit restricted states at least, things have changed.  Every hunter I know has a CCW permit (or lives in a permitless carry state), even if they don't use it often, or just carry a mouse gun.  Almost all of them also own an AR, even if they shoot it rarely.  Gun ownership has changed a LOT in most of the nation.  Judging by the NICS figures, I think it has changed even more in the last two months.

mountainmoma:
You cannot get a permit in my county of California, so in saying that, I am accurate, you could count on one hand, and they are 'connected" .  Saying you can carry if you can get the permit, but you cannot get the permit, is the same as not permitting.  SO, it is actually not legal but will take forever to get thru the challenges.  It went to court, and was deemed unconstitutional, but the state is appealing, so in the meantime, the court is letting the law stand !  For another xx years. Also, what you would have to go thru to get a permit here, the money it would cost, makes it too high of a bar for people of modest means, so there are 2 reasons we cannot get one. 

It does vary by county.  I was just giving a short version to Gamer in any case, because it is not neccessarily just get a permit, no big deal, in the high population areas. 

I wonder how many high population city areas have expensive hoops one would have to go thru, which for people like me would make it impossible, such as paying for the county psychiatrist to vet you; taking 2 or 3 days of paid handgun training; only having the permit apply to one handgun..... I could never afford a permit in my county even if they agreed to let me apply.

On the other hand, I do have a carry permit that is good for most of the country, and the class and test I took for that was reasonable. But, I cannot use it for the 2 states I spend all my time in.

Chemsoldier:

--- Quote from: mountainmoma on April 13, 2020, 04:03:42 PM ---You cannot get a permit in my county of California, so in saying that, I am accurate, you could count on one hand, and they are 'connected" .  Saying you can carry if you can get the permit, but you cannot get the permit, is the same as not permitting.  SO, it is actually not legal but will take forever to get thru the challenges.  It went to court, and was deemed unconstitutional, but the state is appealing, so in the meantime, the court is letting the law stand !  For another xx years. Also, what you would have to go thru to get a permit here, the money it would cost, makes it too high of a bar for people of modest means, so there are 2 reasons we cannot get one. 

It does vary by county.  I was just giving a short version to Gamer in any case, because it is not neccessarily just get a permit, no big deal, in the high population areas. 

I wonder how many high population city areas have expensive hoops one would have to go thru, which for people like me would make it impossible, such as paying for the county psychiatrist to vet you; taking 2 or 3 days of paid handgun training; only having the permit apply to one handgun..... I could never afford a permit in my county even if they agreed to let me apply.

On the other hand, I do have a carry permit that is good for most of the country, and the class and test I took for that was reasonable. But, I cannot use it for the 2 states I spend all my time in.

--- End quote ---
One of the advantages of the shall issue states is most do not give counties much, if any, room to slow roll permits.  Many dictate how much money can be charged, some even have mandatory timelines for permit issuance. So, for instance, St. Louis has a very high crime rate, but even before constitutional carry passed, the city had little it could do on how permits were done.  Now they have none at all. 

I suppose the only thing I have seen is varying degrees of "be there in person."  Some cities require you to make an appointment, go to the permit office during banker's hours to get a permit packet, make another one to drop off packet and get finger printed, and a third to pick up the permit.  I know of a few places where the 2013 crush and the march of technology has streamlined it even then.  Most went to download your application permit online and at the end they mail your completed permit to you at your home, leaving the middle step as the only in person step.  One state I lived in required you to have the permit application signed by your CCW instructor, arther than submitting a certificate from a certified CCW instructor, so you had to obtain it before training.  Since then that particular state has gone constitutional carry, when they did that they made the permitting system dramatically easier to navigate.  Over 17 years have had 4 different state's resident permits, 2 of those states on more than one occasion. 

theBINKYhunter:
I'm fortunate that AZ is constitutional carry so a permit is not needed. I still got one because I believe it will look better to have one than to not if a situation ever dictates that should come into question. It's very easy to get a permit here as long as you're not a felon. I downloaded the packet, got fingerprinted at the local PD, mailed it off with a cashier's check and weeks later my card arrived in the mail. Renewal is even easier because you just send in a renewal app with the fee. Counties/Cities are not allowed to get in the way as all permits are handled at the state level and they cannot restrict things further than what the state allows for.

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