Rifle Skills

[LodeRunner]

I'm a pretty good shot with pistols and shotguns but there's a big hole in my gun game. I've never really developed the "rifleman" skill. Yes, I have an AR with a red dot and I can make hits. But I want to be the guy who has pinpoint accuracy at range.
...
What I could use is a book or books about developing the skill of shooting. I'm not looking to be an expert shooting a .338 Lapua a mile (though I respect you guys). I need something to get me off training wheels and strong in fundamentals. When I did shoot pistols a lot I did drills and dry fire daily. When I got into shotguns I did changeover drills and sight picture work. I want the drills and practice that will make me solid with a rifle. And I want to avoid bad habits.

Any ideas? I'd love to hear them.

Start practicing from day 1 with a proper rifle sling. 
Start with 2 exercises, both in the prone -
 -- work on breathing - 1. inhale normally, 2. exhale half,  3. pause breathing and squeeze trigger, 4 finish exhale
 -- work on your natural point of aim 1.aim, 2.close your aiming eye for 3~5 seconds, 3.when you open it are you still aimed at the same spot?
Advance to dry-firing your rifle in the prone, doing the 'penny trick'

To diagnose breathing and/or trigger-squeeze problems, use a cam-corder and a "laser boresight" in a dark hallway (outside after dark is even better - set up for 50~100 meters if possible).  set camcorder on tripod to record the target from a distance of 5 to 8 feet.  turn on the boresight laser and put it in your chamber.  Get into the prone and do dry-fire exercises while aiming at the target...10 to 20 reps, not more.  Stop and review recording to see what results your actions created.  Do another set and try to feel the errors you saw in the video.  Work the errors out of your autonomic behavior by repeating this exercise, several sets each day, until corrected. 

If still having difficulty after 5 days, go back and look at your point of aim - is it really your natural point of aim, or are you 'forcing it'?

Do all of this before you start wasting ammo.

Cheers
/LR

[James1979]

Check out the Leupold Academy if you wouldn't mind traveling to Oregon for a week.
https://www.leupold.com/leupold-core/core-communities/optics-academy/precision-scoped-rifle-1-psr-1

Looking good scope.

[James1979]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noGN55b-kVI  This guy is spot on on everything except for when he says to load the rifle bipod.

 

[David in MN]

OK. I did my first day of dedicated rifle work. This was VERY new to me. I've done 3 gun and the like but to do dedicated long range shooting with bolt actions is different. I got set up and organized and then did some stretching and breathing just to loosen up and get a feel for my muscles. Luckily, it was a rainy day (off and on) so the only other people on the range were two young Army Reserve guys who were eager to get outdoors and shoot again. They hadd some nutty guns (including a suppressed .22 rifle and CCI quiet ammo that was so mild you could hear the hammer drop). We got along very well and it was a pleasure to shoot with them. Meet some of the nicest people shooting.

Beyond the gun talk, I first zeroed my .22 rifle to 50 yards. I'm starting slow here so bear with. It took about 5 shots to get to where I really debating changes. Again, I'm no expert who could do it in 2. I will confess I used a shooting rest, seen here:

http://www.championtarget.com/shooting_gear/shooting_rests/premium.aspx

and it really helped me as a newbie. Coming from the pistol world, I usually trade a little precision for speed and having shot shotgun exclusively for a couple years you get into the "close enough" mindset. I have a big lack of confidence with a high power scope and tring to match point of aim with point of impact is not quite in my wheelhouse. But I did as taught and managed my breathing and trigger pull. I got it done.

Then I moved up to my .308. I have a scout rifle (it's my transition rifle) so it's only a 4 power scope and I decided to try and get it 1" high at 50 yards. This took a few tries. I'm not going to lie, the increase in recoil made me wonder if I was jerking the trigger so I reshot a couple of tries. After about 8 rounds I was about .75 high and I decided it would do for today. It had stopped drizzling and I wanted to pull my target and stay dry.

I fired 13 shots in 90 minutes. That was hard. The pistol guy who lives in my head screams to shoot more and I think I overcompensated by slowing down radically. As often as possible I would put the gun down and relax. No need to rush. I know if I move too quick I'm going to make mistakes. And I'm there to learn and create good skills.

I had fun. It's its own unique creature. If I run into those Reservists again I'll buy them a beer for being so nice and letting me check my target frequently. They were so good to shoot with. When I got back to the clubhouse I met up with George, our resident expert in long range shooting, and he wanted to inspect my targets. He said I did "alright for the first try" which is high praise from an opinionated Vietnam vet.

I'll start pushing out to 100 next time with the confidence that I can zero at 50. I'm not sure where I'll go with the .22 but I for sure want the .308 a little high (not decided yet) at 100. I really feel like I'm picking up a new skill. I hope that I pick up better shooting habits that translate to other weapons. I'll keep posting progress (if people like this). Maybe I'm convincing someone like me to give this a try.

[David in MN]

Second day of dedicated rifle shooting... 100 yards...

Interestingly, the .22 went really well. By the ammo data I had I knew I would be about 6" low at 100 yards so I put a sticker 6" high and shot out the bullseye. That felt good.

I then moved to my .308. I should at this point thank a certain member of my gun club for coaching me up. How should I describe him? He's a 75 year old Vietnam vet who believes the meaning of life is a .338 Lapua and while he votes conservative I'd wager he couldn't pass a drug test. Anyhow, under his eye I got behind the gun and after a few shots I dialed in the scope to be perfectly 2.5" high at 100 yards.

Then something odd happened. I discovered that a .308 bolt action has very little recoil. Once I got "on the gun" and positioned correctly it didn't bother me in the least. To give the back story, I've always feared rifle recoil because growing up the only rifles made available were military surplus with steel butt plates in calibers like .45-70 and .30-06. Even my first proper rifle (ARs don't count) was a Mosin and I can't cheekweld it for the life of me. Discovering that getting a proper rifle fit to me without brutal 1800s technology was a real thought shift. I don't have to be in pain to shoot a rifle. I was happy to hit the 300 yard gong shooting standing.

I'm really getting in to the rifle game. Focus on the stance, the breathing, even the pulse. The process is very fun. I like shooting very few very accurate shots. The engineer in me loves that it is a stack of skills that culminate in a hole on a target where you intended it to be. I'm becoming a technician of the rifle and I am having fun. I'm sad it took to age 37 to learn but maybe it's just the right time for me.

[Smurf Hunter]

Excellent.

Last weekend I did nearly the opposite kind of shooting.  Took a combative carbine (AR15) class lead by local cops.  I was the only student without a drop leg pistol holster.  I shot over 500 rounds of .223.  It was tiring, as we repeatedly changed positions, dominant hands, failure scenarios etc.the first shooting we did was to zero from the bench at 25 yards.  I was 2 inches low (expected for a 100 yard zero) but had an .25" group.  Big deal, 25 yards from a rest!?  Well that was the best in the class aparently.  I later learned for effective "fighting" I cannot take such careful aim, but instead need to be fast and close enough.

And to tie into TSP, I ran into Heavy G (299 Days author) while I was there.

I'm up to my neck in hobbies, but I can see the appeal of really diving deep into precision rifle shooting.

[archer]

Excellent.

Last weekend I did nearly the opposite kind of shooting.  Took a combative carbine (AR15) class lead by local cops.  I was the only student without a drop leg pistol holster.  I shot over 500 rounds of .223.  It was tiring, as we repeatedly changed positions, dominant hands, failure scenarios etc.the first shooting we did was to zero from the bench at 25 yards.  I was 2 inches low (expected for a 100 yard zero) but had an .25" group.  Big deal, 25 yards from a rest!?  Well that was the best in the class aparently.  I later learned for effective "fighting" I cannot take such careful aim, but instead need to be fast and close enough.

And to tie into TSP, I ran into Heavy G (299 Days author) while I was there.

what company was this done thru?
I'm up to my neck in hobbies, but I can see the appeal of really diving deep into precision rifle shooting.

sounds like a fun class, almost wish i had an AR so I could take the class.
I'm glad HeavyG was there, I was wondering if he 'disappeared'.

[David in MN]

Excellent.

Last weekend I did nearly the opposite kind of shooting.  Took a combative carbine (AR15) class lead by local cops.  I was the only student without a drop leg pistol holster.  I shot over 500 rounds of .223.  It was tiring, as we repeatedly changed positions, dominant hands, failure scenarios etc.the first shooting we did was to zero from the bench at 25 yards.  I was 2 inches low (expected for a 100 yard zero) but had an .25" group.  Big deal, 25 yards from a rest!?  Well that was the best in the class aparently.  I later learned for effective "fighting" I cannot take such careful aim, but instead need to be fast and close enough.

And to tie into TSP, I ran into Heavy G (299 Days author) while I was there.

I'm up to my neck in hobbies, but I can see the appeal of really diving deep into precision rifle shooting.

I've done a couple AR classes and one tactical shotgun course. Yeah, those guys throw serious lead. It takes a certain mindset to think that you are "laying fire" on a target and using the weapon like a WWI machine gunner. In particular I got to watch a Chicago PD display of why the shotgun IS the dominant weapon. While watching 3 guys weave in and out of each other they used nonverbal cues like pointing upward to reload and I swear I have never seen a more intimidating use of firepower - in a good way. It was the early 90s and these guys were all Korea/Vietnam vets and they were intent on showing that a well heeled unit didn't need an MP5 (it was the 90s) but could be dominant with the humble shotgun. I feel the same way about the AR. As a marine trainer taugh me when I installed the red dot, "put red on bad and depress trigger. If bad is still bad depress again."

It's been really fun to shift to slow shooting with a bolt action. 6 months ago if I was told I'd be dropped in the middle of a Wisconsin wilderness and I could take only one gun it would have been the beloved shotty. Today I'm starting to see the value of a .308. If nothing else at least the scope is a valuable survival tool. And while I can't rely on the drumbeat of an AR or the scatter fire of a shotgun I am really embracing the rifle as a stout defense tool. Thoughts are shifting.

[Smurf Hunter]

So true.  Laying down cover fire only works if you have fellow good guys who can advance on the bad guy.

[David in MN]

I had a 200 yard range day. After I settled in on the bench and took a few shots to zero (I want the gun perfectly zero at 200) I shot two rounds that almost touched both less than .125" from dead center. I was pretty proud.

Now bear in mind I'm not a rifle guy. I'm sure plenty of you could do better but I'm learning the skill and I did that with a .308 scout rifle with a 4x scope. I then started shooting from a standing position which added some slop but I'm working on it.

I hope in writing this I'm encouraging those who aren't up to snuff with a rifle to give it a try. It's a lot of fun and super rewarding.

[LvsChant]

Good stuff, David. Thanks for sharing your progress!

[Chemsoldier]

David;

Jeff Cooper's Art of the Rifle (a book) had a number of drills that are structured for the building the skill level of the centerfire rifle shooter.  I can't recall them but some of them are in this blog and are along the same lines.
http://artoftherifleblog.com/rifle-ten/2012/06/rifle-ten.html
http://artoftherifleblog.com/the-townsend-whelen-challenge
That blog itself appears to have some good material in it: http://artoftherifleblog.com/reference-section

A field and stream article with some rifle drills:
https://www.fieldandstream.com/eight-rifle-shooting-drills#page-4

I am glad to hear you are finding it rewarding.  I am working on getting a Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle and will probably be working on my general rifle skills as well.

[David in MN]

David;

Jeff Cooper's Art of the Rifle (a book) had a number of drills that are structured for the building the skill level of the centerfire rifle shooter.  I can't recall them but some of them are in this blog and are along the same lines.
http://artoftherifleblog.com/rifle-ten/2012/06/rifle-ten.html
http://artoftherifleblog.com/the-townsend-whelen-challenge
That blog itself appears to have some good material in it: http://artoftherifleblog.com/reference-section

A field and stream article with some rifle drills:
https://www.fieldandstream.com/eight-rifle-shooting-drills#page-4

I am glad to hear you are finding it rewarding.  I am working on getting a Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle and will probably be working on my general rifle skills as well.

Thanks for the drills, I actually am doing somewhat of a variant. I'm doing a lot of dry fire trigger control work at night after the family goes to bed. I've learned from my mentor that long range bolt action shooting is about trigger control, breathing, and a stable position. It's funny because I still do the pistol drill where I have a friend load mags with one dummy just to see how I anticipate recoil. Yup, every time. Like my pistol days these hours of dry fire and dummy round drills are what is taking me from rank amateur to hack. I like the drill of approaching the target. If I could get some alone time on the rifle range that one would push  me for holdovers and reloads.

If you get the Ruger Scout I strongly suspect you will fall in love. With a long eye relief scope you'll be hitting everything within 300 meters with almost no holdover and have the confidence of getting the gun into sight quick. And I don't think Cooper was wrong. These are rifles you could take hunting deer in the Midwest, knock down predators on the homestead (legally of course) and provide some real mayhem if Red Dawn happened. It is the "only one rifle" answer.

So when the Mrs. says "another rifle?" just tell her some nutty guy in Minnesota says it's a good buy. That always works, right? 

[David in MN]

I've just put in my order for a Savage 110 BA Stealth in .338 Lapua. Assuming no issues I should have it in a few weeks. It was actually this thread that tipped me over on the .338. From the research I did it was a hard choice between the .338 and 6.5 Creedmoor. Thanks to this thread I know I can rebuild the .338 to shoot the 6.5 so I'm really just buying the option to do either.

I'm also not worried about ammo cost. I'm averaging right around 7 shots when I take out my .308. Even at .338 costs I'd spend about $35 to shoot it. Not a big worry. And if I wanted to step down to the 6.5 it's an option.

Now I have to decide on glass. The two lead options right now:

Weaver 3-15x50
http://weaveroptics.com/optics/tactical/tactical_riflescopes/

Bushnell DMR II
https://www.bushnell.com/Products/Riflescopes/Elite-Tactical/DMRII-Pro-3-5-21x50/?sku=ET732150ED

It's a little terrifying that I'm going to build (rifle, glass, sling, bipod) a 20 lb $5k rifle made for long range hits but I'm hooked. It's wicked fun. And my brother in law has already called dibs to take it elk hunting.

[David in MN]

Lucky Gunner did a pretty cool 10 minute video introducing "practical" rifle skills. Aligns well with stuff said here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtfmHKQmIoM

[Davew223]

Might want to check back into being able to change the 110 from .338 to 6.5.  I seem to remember that the 110 in .338 uses a beefier action than the standard 110. 

I don't know if you will be able to find a bolt face that will work.  Even if it can be done you would be giving up one of the biggest advantages to the Creed which is the short action that all the PRS shooters seem to think is necessary.  Finding a mag that would work could also be an issue. 

With that said, swapping to 7 Mag should work just fine if you can find a mag that will work.  I'm running a 110 with a Krieger #19 contour barrel in 7 Mag.  With the 162 grain A-Max at 2650 fps (low pressure load, about the same as a 7mm-08) those loads are just as flat as the ELD-X match loads my cousin is running in his Creed.  That 2650 load works fine at 1000+.  It's also getting sub .15" groups off the bench at 100.  With a higher pressure load in the 3100 fps range it's fine at 1600. 

[Carl]

  I suggest a common caliber in a rifle that adapts to you well and put the 'custom' money and caliber on the shelf til such time as a new barrel is needed and take the money saved to get good sight or optics and practice practice practice till the time you can call your shots ...when you and the gun fit well , the caliber will have little effect and you will have nothing to blame poor shooting on beyond yourself.

[David in MN]

I bought a copy of Cooper's The Art of the Rifle.

First, it's out of print and fetching ~$60 on the used market for a 97 page book. So right off the bat don't buy unless you really want it.

It's not a book about shooting mechanics. Sure there are chapters on grip and shooting positions but it's more a philosophy of how to have a rifle on your body and bring it into effective use. I would say that the book completely ignores what I would call long range or precision shooting and instead focuses on what I would call "practical" rifle skills. There are no tricked out long range rifles and very little semi-auto guns (mostly H&K G3). It's really a book of bolt .308 guns with either low power scopes or scout configurations.

Where this book really shines is the concept that a rifle belongs on your shoulder. To do this Cooper is really good at stripping off unnecessary weight and focusing on a rifleman being ready to deploy his rifle at all times. He goes so far that he believes your rifle should be your best friend. There's a lot of good information on the philosophy of having and using a rifle.

A lot of anecdotes in the book are heavily flavored by Cooper's experiences on dangerous hunts in Africa and his tertiary involvement in the Rhodesian Bush War. A lot of life experience where carrying a rifle daily was probably a good idea.

If you're looking for a book about the thinking behind a practical/scout/surplus rifle and how to employ it best try to borrow it. You can get what you need in about 45 minutes.

[NWPilgrim]

David, that is a great summary of Cooper's book.  It kind of resists definition by any of our competitive sport styles, and certainly not from the bench or deer stand.  Maybe even not for the "Carry once or twice a year for a deer hunt" either. I think the closest American "style" would be a ranch rifle.  Carried often, used for game or targets of opportunity, and if necessary for defense from dangerous game or men.  To be carried by a "rifleman."

While there may be other areas of rifle shooting of interest to a person not covered in this book, I believe it is an important foundational work of understanding the "always ready, general purpose" rifle.

[David in MN]

If you think you may want to do long range shooting, or may eventually want to get a suppressor, and since you get a discount on savage, I would look at the savage 10BA stealth for your 308. I have the 110BA stealth in 338 Lapua mag and love it. I've been impressed with the 10BA and 110BA rifles, factory blueprinted actions, suppressor ready, Drake chassis, good stuff. I will end up getting one myself once the barrel of my 10FP is worn
out.

I've been out with the 110 BA Stealth in .338 Lapua with a Bushnell DMR II Pro. Yeah, that is a damn fine gun. I was nervous as hell pulling the trigger because my brother in law's .300 WinMag kills on one side and cripples on the other but between the muzzle brake and Drake chassis that has a recoil reduction system I would say it recoils considerably less than my scout .308. Maybe it has something to do with the obscene weight... I will also say that either I'm getting better or that is a very easy gun to zero and work with. Scope might help there too. But for some reason I just found it to be inherently accurate, repeatable, and easy to work with. I see why it's a big hit in the long range community.

That said, I will add a caveat. Don't buy a stupid crazy sniper rifle unless you really want it and know what you're getting. After thousands on the gun (which is admittedly on the budget side) and thousands more on the scope you still need to buy rounds that each cost $5 and an extra mag is $100. The scope rings cost about $100 as well. It's a bit of a project. But if you have the drive real fun.

Only downside was getting yelled at by the safety officer. No, I didn't do anything wrong. I was "too loud".