OT - Need help with camping trip gear!

[roof_top_eagle]

I know this is a bit off topic but I'm also using most of this stuff as gear to have for preparedness, so I guess it fits a little.

A few friends of mine are going camping at the end of October and we have limited space in the car.  4 guys and a VW Jetta!

This is a link to the google document that is my list of gear if you want to check it out
http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AUnKfFKTACaAZGdxaDN2OXNfMGN6NHQ4YmNk&hl=en

But if you guys could suggest some good gear go get for this trip it would be great.  I haven't been camping since I was a kid and my parents did a poor job of prepping for it.

I'm in charge of the gear and I plan on buying most of it so I have it on hand in the future in case I need it.  Also lots of the gear in the document have links to what I'm thinking of buying so if you have time to check it out and look at if the piece of equipment is any good (or if it is crap) that would be great!


Keep in mind space is really limited in that little VW Jetta with four guys in it.

Thanks guys,

Frazer in Southern Ontario, Canada

[idelphic]

- Camp Axe
Good item to have - Fiskers makes a excellent one, though any will work.

- Firesteel-
No need to comment here - good item

- Fire tinder
Make your own, don't buy them.  Recently read a thread here about using a pencil sharpener to make tinder - Used the counter rotating one here in the office, and it works very nicely.  The single blade ones are nice too, though I have not tried it yet.  You can replace the pencil sharpener with a simple small folder.

- Strikeforce matches
Nice to have a back up.

- Folding saw/camp saw
Saws are nice to have, but I don't know about them,.. I have one,.. just don't know how much use it would be,..  most fire wood would be on the ground, shelter material can be gotten with the hand axe.

- Folding Shovel
Consider where you are going, and if the need is a valid one.  Could be useful I know.

<..>
- Map of area we're hiking
Good
- Compass
Good
- Water bottles
Get two

- Garbage bags
Good
- Water purification tablets
What about a steripen or a hand pump filter?

- Compact food for snacks
GORP, trail mix, poptarts, snack bars as you mentioned.

- Daypack
Good
- Emergency shelter
Good
- Fox40 Whistle
Good
- Emergency blanket
Good
- Folding knife
Have two - one for larger tasks, and a smaller one.  Consider this also,..  every time you use the blade, it reduce it's edge,..  how will you sharpen it?  Can you use something that is found where you will be to cut? Like Flint or other?

<..>
- Sleeping pad
Good idea, creates a barrier between you and the ground keeping you warmer.  Can also be used as padding while you are hiking.

- Toilet Paper
Think some people forget this.

- Wet Ones
When dry, could be used as fire starting material.

- Hand Sanitizer
Good - can be used to start fires also.

- Sleeping bag
Make sure it fits the person using it.

- 1 large tarp for ground covering
If you can spare the room, get two.

- Warm Clothing
Given,..your in Canada

- Camp Stool
You may be able to eliminate this, and use items in your camp area.. YMMV

<..>
- Flashlight and extra batteries (L.E.D. is best)
Good.

- Fanny pack or belt pack
Also can be used for short day hikes and not have to haul the make pack.

- L.E.D. Headlamp + extra batteries
Acutally, keeping your hands free is a good manner to go.  If you happen to be walking to the loo in the middle of the night, you have both hands to catch yourself in the event of a fall.

- L.E.D. Lantern
Good.

 --Might look at some of the Chem lights or solar powered flashlights,..  Or make your own (if time allowed)  The Chem lights could be used as night markers..  for trips to the loo.

<..>
- Camp Coffee set
Can you forgo a full set by using instant? Or??

- Camp Pots and pans
- Camp cups- Cooler for storing food
EH - Four people in a Jetta, with four packs, and a cooler?  Who's going to ride on the hood?    Reduce where you can, you need water, at least until you can find a good source.  Food could be simple foods, and not need a cooler.  Of course, it's YOUR trip.. if you can fit everything in, by all means...

- Thermoses for keeping foods hot
Good idea,.. can be used to slow cook foods too. 

-  Mess Kit (Knife, spoon, fork, Plate, Bowl, cup)
Paper plates could be burned in your camp fire.  But nothing plastic.

- Steel Wool
That works.

- Small bottle of dish soap
If you are thinking environmentally, use a bio-soap.

- Water Filter system
Good - See above.

<..>
Everything looks pretty good.  One the Coleman stove - depending on which, the size could limit your space,.. but the two burner ones are awesome to have and use for cooking for more then one person.

Seems like you are getting well planned out.  Hope you have a great trip, and look to hear back upon your return as to what you used, didn't use, what broke and how you fixed it,.. and if you found that you had something you didn't need...

[Outdoorsben]

I may have missed it but you probably want some dry bags or something to put things in so they don't get wet. For your matches you can use an old 35mm film case. You can use the case for other things too. Cotton and Vaseline keep a flame for a long time and believe it or not frito's keep a flame for a long time. Those 2 things may help your fire starting if need be.

I would also suggest a product called "camp suds". It's a pretty useful cleaning soap. You can use it to clean yourself, the dishes, and anything else. Just a few drops go a long way.

For cooking I personally bought myself a jetboil and my goodness it's fantastic. I can't describe how useful it is for me. I also bought myself a set of plates that fold into each other and for utensils i have a "hobo tool" which is basically a fork, knife, spoon, bottle opener, and 1 other thing I can't remember. All those really save space in my pack. The jetboil packs into itself and the hobo tool folds up like a pocket knife.

I'd pass on the alarm clock if someone has a cellphone. That can be used as an alarm clock. Just turn it off while hiking to preserve battery.

Basically once you think you have everything try and save as much space as possible when packing. You may also want to bring a small file to sharpen your knives and axe if you plan to use it a lot. You can velcro or tie the file to the axe handle to preserve space.

[Pathfinder]

Good suggestions all.

also, roof rack for the Jetta.

Everything else is commentary!

 

Throw in a tent or 2 - small, lightweight 2-man tents. Spare socks. Food.

[idelphic]

While at lunch I happened to be going over this in my mind.  I don't recall seeing any type of line or rope.  You should include some line, twine, rope in your gear.  Many suggest ParaCord as it can be broken down into 8 strands..

[Outdoorsben]

You can also store the cord in a washed out peanut butter jar with a hole in the top. It jeeps from getting tangled and saves space.

[roof_top_eagle]

Thanks guys

- Camp Axe
Good item to have - Fiskers makes a excellent one, though any will work.

I've been looking at the Fiskars one...I think I'll grab one of those, thanks for the confirmation!

- Fire tinder
Make your own, don't buy them.  Recently read a thread here about using a pencil sharpener to make tinder - Used the counter rotating one here in the office, and it works very nicely.  The single blade ones are nice too, though I have not tried it yet.  You can replace the pencil sharpener with a simple small folder.

I'm gonna scrap the tinder, we can make our own, I'll just bring some dryer lint and an old pill bottle with vasoline soaked cotton balls in case it's wet and hard to find good tinder

- Folding saw/camp saw
Saws are nice to have, but I don't know about them,.. I have one,.. just don't know how much use it would be,..  most fire wood would be on the ground, shelter material can be gotten with the hand axe.

I want to give my folding saw a test, otherwise I'd agree that I don't need it, I don't need it I just want to test it.

- Water purification tablets
What about a steripen or a hand pump filter?

I want to have some in each day pack and on each person while hiking just in case we seperate, they are compact and good enough in an emergency, the Katadyn Hiker pro I'm buying next week will work for the majority of our water.  I've never tried a steripen, I would like to give one a try one day though

- Folding knife
Have two - one for larger tasks, and a smaller one.  Consider this also,..  every time you use the blade, it reduce it's edge,..  how will you sharpen it?  Can you use something that is found where you will be to cut? Like Flint or other?

I'll dig my USMC Ka-bar out of my storage room and we'll use that for larger tasks and the folders for smaller ones...good tip!

- 1 large tarp for ground covering
If you can spare the room, get two.

good point, they aren't too bulky I think we can pull them off!

- Warm Clothing
Given,..your in Canada

Yeppers  I'm trying to get the guys to invest in some wool clothing!

- Camp Stool
You may be able to eliminate this, and use items in your camp area.. YMMV

Yeah I agree, that jetta is looking smaller and smaller!  That is why I was trying to get the guys to invest in camp stools instead of lawn chairs, they are a lot smaller.  I'm bringing my military surplus knee pads to make building a fire and stuff easier!

- L.E.D. Headlamp + extra batteries
Acutally, keeping your hands free is a good manner to go.  If you happen to be walking to the loo in the middle of the night, you have both hands to catch yourself in the event of a fall.

I agree 100%!

--Might look at some of the Chem lights or solar powered flashlights,..  Or make your own (if time allowed)  The Chem lights could be used as night markers..  for trips to the loo.

Good idea, I have several on hand right now, I'll toss those in the kit

- Camp Coffee set
Can you forgo a full set by using instant? Or??

I was at starbucks today and they have this "instant" coffee now that is really just 100% coffee ground up really fine so it desolves into the water, I'm thinking of buying a 12 pack for the camp out, one of the guys is a coffee connoisseur and I got a taste of the starbucks stuff and it is really good, tastes just like brewed starbucks coffee!  This will reduce the weight of the coffee maker in the kit.

Cooler for storing food
EH - Four people in a Jetta, with four packs, and a cooler?  Who's going to ride on the hood?    Reduce where you can, you need water, at least until you can find a good source.  Food could be simple foods, and not need a cooler.  Of course, it's YOUR trip.. if you can fit everything in, by all means...

I agree on the cooler being too big, we will have to find an alternative food source or else we'll be stuck in the car once we get there 

-  Mess Kit (Knife, spoon, fork, Plate, Bowl, cup)
Paper plates could be burned in your camp fire.  But nothing plastic.

Good point on the paper plates, I'll take that advice!

- Water Filter system
Good - See above.

Yeah there is a Katadyn hiker at Canadian tire, I want to get that one so it will work for the camp, I was thinking the tabs would be good for in our daypacks in case we get separated.

Everything looks pretty good.  One the Coleman stove - depending on which, the size could limit your space,.. but the two burner ones are awesome to have and use for cooking for more then one person.

Yeah, I'm really thinking of canning the Coleman stove, to big and bulky...I'll have to make a last minute decision when I see the car.

I may have missed it but you probably want some dry bags or something to put things in so they don't get wet.

Dry bags, excellent idea!!!!

I'd pass on the alarm clock if someone has a cellphone. That can be used as an alarm clock. Just turn it off while hiking to preserve battery.

Cell phone, duhh why didn't I think of that I use my cell everyday as an alarm clock 

Basically once you think you have everything try and save as much space as possible when packing. You may also want to bring a small file to sharpen your knives and axe if you plan to use it a lot. You can velcro or tie the file to the axe handle to preserve space.

I'll bring my small sharpening stone...good idea!!!

While at lunch I happened to be going over this in my mind.  I don't recall seeing any type of line or rope.  You should include some line, twine, rope in your gear.  Many suggest ParaCord as it can be broken down into 8 strands..

Good idea, 550 cord added!

Throw in a tent or 2 - small, lightweight 2-man tents. Spare socks. Food.

Spare socks.....I totally need to remember that!!!

I think we'll pack extra socks in zip lock freezer bags, I'll try and get the guys to invest in wool again

Thanks again guys, you're all the best!!

[BigDanInTX]

- Fire tinder
I'm gonna scrap the tinder, we can make our own, I'll just bring some dryer lint and an old pill bottle with vasoline soaked cotton balls in case it's wet and hard to find good tinder

I have been watching Dave Canterburry's videos on youtube lately.  I'm not sure if it was him or if I had seen it somewhere else, but...

When you pull out a cotton ball from your container, you don't nee the whole thing.  About half should do just fine.  Don't expect to light it as-is, be sure to open it up and separate the fibers.  This will allow things to catch much better.

Also, if you aren't doing a primitive style camping (using lighters, etc), bring a small tea candle.  These will have enough burn time for a couple hours.  All you have to do is light the candle and that takes no time, thus conserving the fuel in your lighter.  You can then use this to set your tinder (or cotton ball) on fire and proceed from there.  =-D

I'm in a similar boat in that I'm getting some things together for a camp with my best friend in November with our oldest boys.  So, this thread definitely helped as well.

Idelphic - Great responses man.  Thanks for the help and great insight. +1 x 1,000  ;-]

[BigDanInTX]

I decided to create a new category for camping, as this truly didn't belong anywhere else.  It's a companion skill I think can be important, as if you have to bug out on foot or even while traveling, camping skills can be helpful.  =-]

[roof_top_eagle]

I decided to create a new category for camping, as this truly didn't belong anywhere else.  It's a companion skill I think can be important, as if you have to bug out on foot or even while traveling, camping skills can be helpful.  =-]

Thanks BigDan

[idelphic]

Another thought on Tinder:
  Early this year I met my brother in West Virginia, nearby was a pine tree that had had a limb trimmed off and was weeping sap.  Using this and some other twigs made for making a fire easy.

While it's best to have something you know will work, if you can use what is around you and save your supplies, would extend your trip or resources for another time.

[donaldj]

It should be asked...  are you going camping, or backpacking?  If camping in a stationary site, this is an OK list.  If you're going backpacking, you may want to go buy a gift certificate for a hernia operation.   

[roof_top_eagle]

It should be asked...  are you going camping, or backpacking?  If camping in a stationary site, this is an OK list.  If you're going backpacking, you may want to go buy a gift certificate for a hernia operation.   

We're camping with some day hikes...nothing too long.

[roof_top_eagle]

Unfortunately our trip has been postponed due to a couple parties backing out or are in limbo about whether they can make it...not to bad though (even though I was really looking forward to it) this will give me more time to acquire gear I want to test and just gear in general since I am (for the moment, back in school ) on a low income (security never pays well).  This will give me time to get my Kaito radios from the group buy, it will be good to try them out in the bush, it will give me more time to aquire or make the tarps get the water filters and other gear that I want to have.

Plus it will give me time to research skills I want to practice while out there!  I don't get out camping much but I'm thinking of starting to hike the Bruce trail which is near me for some exercise and to practice some skills on my own

Thanks for all your advice guys and I'll keep you all updated on the trip, when we do go and I'll probably take some pictures and video reviews of gear while out.

[CountryRootsCityJob]

Well most of my gear is for backpacking, however there are quire a few pieces of gear that easily transfer over...

Water- if you are car camping, which I've gathered that was the idea, you might want to get a couple of those 5 gallon el-cheapo water containers with a on/off valve, assuming you have access to a faucet.  If you are filtering, I love my MSR Miniworks!  It's got a ceramic filter element, so don't use it and put it in the freezer, but it is easily field maintenance'd and it's good for like 10,000 liters?  If it doe get "clogged" - thats how you know its working- just take the ceramic out and scrub it with the provided pad. 

Sleeping- I'm really a fan of the thermarest line of self inflating sleeping pads... of course in the winter, its nice to have a closed cell pad to put down underneath it.  The comfort is great and the insulating aspect can really help a cold night... which brings me to my next item!

Heat packs- they are cheap, one time use but who care's because you were warm last night!  If I'm expecting it to be colder than my bag can handle, I'll toss one of those suckers down by my feet... just don't get the coleman hand warmers!  Blast those things, I was cold one night!    Never again...

Lanterns... if you like the battery powered ones, I guess that's cool... but I really prefer the multi-fuel lanterns!  Maybe its just the pyro in me... but they are great for warming your hands over if the fire goes out

Chairs?  -eh, never mind... 4 grown men and one VW... nuff said...

Cooking- can't beat a nice dutch oven with a camp fire pot roast or peach cobbler! 

Oh- Camp saw- I got the Swen folding saw: http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___81032  Love it!

Anywho- there's my two cents!

CRCJ

[DeltaEchoVictor]

Comms gear?  I didn't see it mentioned anywhere.

A small MURS radio for each person should be easy & relatively inexpensive.  Since you probably won't be too far apart from each other they should work fine (range wise).  Some spare batteries for each radio stored in a water proof manner as well, should be part of the comms kit.

You never know when someone might get separated or whatever, & small radios beat yelling thru the woods.

GPS?  The basic models are pretty cheap & can provide you with direction of travel & the ability to lay out way-points if you want to explore off the beaten path.  The downside is the cheaper models don't work real great if there is a lot of tree canopy.  I hardly every carry one in the summer because of that but when the leaves are down they work better, & if I find something really interesting I'll usually create a way-point for it when I'm someplace I'm not familiar with.

[wolffire99]

I think you've got a good start.  Although your list looks more like a full load camping trip vs. a lightweight camping trip.  Here's the overall rundown of what I take on my lightweight trips. 

Backpack

Shelter (save a lot of weight by going with a hammock/tarp combo instead of a tent)

    * Hammock
    * Tarp (from poncho)
    * Mosquito net (only for warm weather)
    * Sleeping bag w/gortex outer
    * 4 lightweight tent stakes (to secure tarp in bad weather)

Tools

    * Multi Tool
    * Fixed blade knife
    * Hatchet
    * 30ft 7mm rope
    * 50ft 550 paracord
    * Handheld gps w/extra batteries
    * Compass
    * Maps
    * Fire Steel
    * Matches
    * First aid kit
    * Water Filter
    * LED headlamp w/ 1 extra battery

Food/Cooking Supplies

    * Dehydrated meals (assuming access to water) (2,500 calories per person per day)
    * Instant coffee (optional)
    * sport drink powder mix
    * 1qt aluminum billy can
    * US issue canteen w/ attached cup
    * Field guide to edible wild plants

Hygiene

    * Bar of soap
    * Wet wipes
    * Toilet paper
    * Sunscreen
    * Chapstick

Very Small survival kit (Altoid can size)

    * Antiseptic + bandages
    * Emergency Blanket
    * Mirror
    * Matches
    * Whistle
    * Tinder
    * Fishing Kit
    * Mini compass
    * Purification tablets
    * Mini SAS survival book

[Nate]

Frazer,
Maybe I missed this but how long are you guys out and are you planning on staying at a campground or bush camping?  I am a backpacker and even when I car camp at a camp ground I go light.  I drive a passat diesel and with 4 people backpacking for a weekend, we are cramped.  I know a passat is slightly larger than a jetta.  On my blog, I have a basic list http://hikeandpaddle.blogspot.com/  I am pasting it here for easy access.

 Below is a general list of things I take on any outing. I only change the clothing to fit the weather.

backpack: 4000 cu. inch to 6000 cu. inch
thermarest trail lite long
North Face sleeping bag rated to 20F
2- 50 foot lengths of para cord
gerber tool
sheath knife OR Malaysian parang
whisperlite stove OR Trangia alcohol stove and appropriate fuel
MSR fusion 2 tent with footprint
tarp with ropes and stakes
MSR mini works water filter
lighter
ferro rod with huge bar of magnesium
cook pot, stainless steel mug, folding spork, plastic bowl
U-Dig-It folding trowel and TP
hand sanitizer, Boy Scout folding toothbrush, paste
1 or 2 bandana's
Patagonia rain jacket and pants
Duofold quick dry t-shirt
Patagonia zip off nylon pants
hiking boots with liner socks and wool socks
Patagonia long john top and bottom
Patagonia fleece windproof vest
REALLY COLD WEATHER: US Military fleece pullover and fleece pants
extra pair wool socks
teva sandals or crocs for camp shoes
basic first aid kit and wilderness first responder field guide

Your BIG THREE items that take up a lot of space and weight are SHELTER, COOKING, SLEEPING.  If you can get a compact tent, awesome.  Sleeping bags can really be big and bulky if you aren't careful in choosing the bag.  Cooking can also get out of hand easily.  Find a small compact stove.  For a group of 4 guys something like the MSR Whisperlite would be better than a 2 burner coleman.  The Whisperlite stoves burn coleman fuel.   Plan one pot meals.  Each man with a mug, bowl, and a spoon can eat well with that set up.  Most of the time I eat out of my mug because I don't feel like washing another dish.  TIP: Eat food out of mug, and get it really clean with your spoon.  Add coffee or other hot drink of choice.  Scrape the inside with your spoon.  The hot beverage of choice usually can cover up the taste of the food left in your mug.  As long as you don't mind a few chunks for floaties, this isnt a bad system.  I did a 3 week expedition and we never used soap.  SAND and GRAVEL make an excellent pot scrubber and cleaner.  For straining gray water, use a piece of window screen with duct taped edges or just bring a small strainer with a handle.  Pour gray water through the strainer or screen. 

I have so many tips and tricks to camping I have picked up over the years.  I have led adventure trips professionally for the last 5 years.  Experience teaches much during that time.  Feel free to contact me and pick my brain with any questions you might have about camping!  That goes for everyone, not just Frazer!  Good luck on your trip! 

[MD3C]

A couple parties backed out? Perfect! More room, and less hassle.
Give it a try.
M

[Gray Ghost]

You have probably already gone on this trip, but I thought I would add my two cents.

• • Multi-Tool instead of a folding knife. Most have a blade included and you realize just how many times a week you could use one once you have one in your pocket/bag after a week. My personal favorite is the Leatherman Wave. My least favorite is are the SOG multi-tools.
• • Fixed blade like your K-Bar instead of a larger folding blade. More useful for larger tasks and more sturdy. My person favorite is the RAT RC-4 and RC-3s.
• • Consider a neck knife.
• • One or two of the smallest solar landscape lights you can find per tent. They are great for marking and finding your tent after a late night trip to the latrine.
• • Candle lighter in addition a fire steel and matches. I keep a couple disposable lighters in my car, BOB, go back, but for camping a candle lighter just can't be beat. I would ditch it for backpacking, but for car camping they really do save your fingers when things take a little longer to light.

Something to keep in  mind. Everyone puts a compass in their bag, but few people actually know how to use them. Make sure you know how to read a map and use a compass. There are several really good books out there for land navigation such as Army Field Manual FM 3-25.26, The SAS Tracking & Navigation Handbook, and Wilderness Navigation: Finding Your Way Using Map, Compass, Altimeter & GPS.

On the folding saw. I have one in my bag and have found it to be useful numerous times. However, I am about to buy a couple of the cable saws to try out as they are more compact.