Hi Gunny Sgt,
I'd like to address your objections to my digital voice encryption module idea, line by line. But first, let me say this: I think the scenarios in which I'm envisioning this voice encryption module to be useful are different than what you are suggesting. It's been my experience as a ham radio operator that most people don't understand radio technology, and treat it like "magic". I think that goes double for criminals and gangs, who are most likely to be our opponents in any tactical situation, much more likely than a radio-technology-savvy government.
All, this is Interesting...
But all forget that if your trying to be sneaky and hide your info in a 2 mile radius MAX. Mostly 2 blocks in the city.
That applies to FRS, but NOT to MURS. With an external antenna on my car and at home, we can communicate 3 miles easily-- I just did it this last weekend.
And if someone is trying to track you they will just DF (Direction Find) you.
I made the point above, but will make it again: ham radio operators like me, and government types understand DFing, but criminals, gangbangers, and foreign terrorists usually don't.
If your not saying attack attack attack then you dont have to worry just shackel your info when required. (Just use a code sheet.)
Pre-arranged codes are not always possible, or usable. All survivalists aren't ex-military, like you. My wife won't use a codebook, especially in the stress of a bug-out situation. It just isn't going to happen. And I don't want anybody listening in, knowing where we're going to stop to fuel up out of our jerry cans. It's much easier for her to just talk, knowing nobody can possibly decode what she is saying.
Plus, I'm trying to make a little money here, pal. I'm not a notebook seller, I'm an electronics designer.
also Encrypted traffic can be Broken. it is just a Matter of time. Even using Brute Force. Anyone who says it cant, is not in the know of what we do in the military.
I invite you to try to break it. I will pay $1000 to the person who can break this encryption without having plaintext or private key access. Not going to happen. I will use AES128, the same encryption used for credit card transactions. I used to work for a military contractor and work on encrypted systems, so I know my encryption. Nowadays, I design meter reading systems that incorporate AES128 encryption. The electric and gas utilities think that's good enough for your billing data.
If somebody really wants to get paranoid, we can use AES256, which the NSA has approved for encrypting top-secret data. I used to design radar digitizers to sell to the NSA. Good enough for the NSA, good enough for me.
Noting is secure if the forces come to bear on you. Email, Radio, or Phone all can be compromised given the time and equipment put to the task. Backdoor, or Brute Force it all is used.
Again, what forces are going to come to bear? For the scenarios I am outlining here, it's plenty secure. I'm not talking about using these voice encryption devices to outwit the Federal government (although that could be done, in conjunction with a spread-spectrum radio).
If you just use a Code Sheet you will not have an issue. It has worked for years and it is Low Tech (Thus Not cool, but it works.) And it draws no attention if your not trying to sound sneaky.
As I laid out before, a) I am trying to make a salable product here, and b) code sheets don't cover everything, and c) regular people just like to "talk" and know they can't be overheard.
Also you have to know Comm to start. As you have to get the Encrypted signal to the other radio and that is not always easy.
You don't have to know Comm. That's the point of an electronic device to do this. And why is it not easy? As long as all the people in my family have these voice encryption modules, and they are all loaded with the same key, and connected to their MURS radios, it's as easy as pie. Nobody can decode what we are saying.
Your not hiding anything with a digital encryption transmission. and if recorded by SOMEONE that wants you and they want to know where your at, you will just be DFed and then your found. When found you will then be compromised. If your found with an encriped radio your then painted with a bad guy brush and your mission has failed.
On the contrary, I'm hiding EVERYTHING with digital encryption: my identity, the identity of my group, my intentions, my plans, my status, my strategy, my tactics, everything. Everything, EXCEPT for my DFed position, and what criminal/MZB/gangbanger is going to have the equipment or know-how to acquire my DFed position?
And who is going to think it's an encrypted radio? It's a piece of junk $79.95 MURS radio, with an unidentified black box hooked to it.
Also using this equipment on a public frequency also draws attention.
Digital data is perfectly legal on MURS. Without special equipment, it just sounds like the "buzz" of a pager signal. So what if it attracts attention? They are paying attention to the wrong thing.
If all has fallen apart then no one is listening or tracking you any way.
I agree, and you're making my point!
If you train with your equipment before all falls apart then you risk legal issues now.
NOT AT ALL. As I said, digital data is perfectly legal on MURS (47 CFR Part 95.1307 (a)). And there is nothing in the rules prohibiting encryption (there is in ham radio, except during emergencies).
With out Proper Frequency Hopping and Encryption your just kidding your self with gear and not Skill. Using FRS or GMRS MURS etc is a specific set of frequencies. So if all has fallen apart and you have no restrictions now Why use this? Also you have to have all the others you want to have comm with have the same out of band freqs. or all the others on the freq can hear you And doing that now has legal issues to train with now.
Again, there are no legal issues with using digital voice encryption on MURS.
I have been working in Low-Probability of Intercept (LPI) spread-spectrum systems for years. I have designed both Direct-Sequence and Frequency Hopping systems. I understand that non-spread-spectrum systems can be DF'd, and even SS systems can be DF'd at short ranges. And I am telling you: criminals, gangbangers, and MZB's understand NONE of this.
I do agree that in a TEOTWAWKI situation, we can use any freq we please.
No Disrespect here my friends. I know this subject and how and what we do to track radio traffic. Digital or Analog Encryption just flags it more.
None taken. It's just you are coming to it from a military perspective, not a citizens' perspective. I believe a digital voice encryption module for MURS and other radios would be extremely useful for the survival-minded individual, and many agree. If you disagree, that's fine, but the reasons you have cited are not valid reasons to avoid digital voice encryption in a typical civilian survival scenario.
All the equipment is nothing with out training in Comm. Is it worth the time on equipment that due to Frequency, Power (2 watts max) and Antenna is not what will help you complete your mission. (what ever that is.) 11.25 khz bandwidth and 20.0 bandwidth is this what you want to use? And if you dont understand bandwidth then this is also a Moot point.
Don't understand bandwidth? After 24 years in radio and electronics engineering, I think I know what I'm doing here. And 2 watts max and an UNRESTRICTED antenna will go a long way; I know from experience. 20 kHz bandwidth is enough for 5-kHz deviation FM modulated by a QPSK modem driven by an AES128-encrypted bitstream from the Speex vocoder at 2 or 3 kbits per sec. I know--I've measured it. And I even posted samples to show people how it would sound. Why are you trying to poo-poo this?
If the world has come to an end then you will not need to have Secure Comm. If things have gone bad and we are fighting the Hun Horsemen An Encrypted Signal just draws attention and causes others to want to know what your saying. They will assume your doing something you should not be and focus on you.
Nonsense. I want secure comms ANYTIME, during TEOTWAWKI or not, Hun Horsemen or gangbangers. I don't want them to know what I am planning, what I am preparing, where I am going, or what my status is.
In a Post Apocalyptic world they will just hear encrypted traffic and drop a bomb on it.
HAHAHA! Who do you think is going to KNOW it's encrypted traffic in a Post Apocalyptic world? How will they have access to my frame formats and protocol? How are they going to have my private key in order to decode it to start with?
Gunny, come on, be reasonable. I doubt criminals, gangbangers, and MZBs are going to have close air support, to be able to "drop a bomb on" anything, much less my MURS radio.
This does not mean dont be prepared, so I applaud you all for thinking outside the box. But this process will not be what will bring you success in what your trying to do.
Thanks. You'll see.
