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Jack Spirko: That makes sense. The thing is, if it is not done and you went too sort just do it for a little longer until you figure out what the right amount is. It's a lot like when I asked you about upping the pressure using bio gas, you said "throw another rock on top of it, until you get it where you want it".

Steven Harris: Exactly, throw another brick on top of the bag until you get the pressure where you want it. Do worry about if you left too much alcohol in your resulting wash. All you do is throw it back into your bucket of your next fermentation and you have lost nothing.

Jack Spirko: that makes perfect sense to me. One thing I want to talk about before we move forward. I want to tell people where they can get all of this stuff. There are a lot of people out there, that are under the same misconception I was. That this stuff is highly corrosive and dangerous to put into our cars. You put it into your car and your car is going to explode. Or it is going to eat your seals away, it is going to eat your gaskets away. I even hear some similar stuff from Ed Wallace who I trust a lot in the car industry. You want to address that for everybody, because you gave me an real education on this.

Steven Harris: Yeah, I want to address it. Remember my background is as a vehicle engineer. I did research and development for Diamond and Chrysler. Have done vehicle test and development in my specialty was jeeps and dodge trucks. I work on vehicle development in scientific labs. I have man years in wind tunnels, man years in proving grounds testing in the desert heat and the winter cold. I have had complete fuel systems apart and in pieces, because I put my instrumentation on them for testing. If you are describing something that is corroding the fuel lines and eating them away and your gaskets are disappearing. Especially with your gaskets disappearing, you're talking about sulfuric acids doing this type of destruction. Ethanol alcohol is something you drink, to put it into perspective. It is not a corrosive element, that absolutely goes in and destroys your vehicles fuel system. The caveat to that are the following; What does destroy fuel like that is called methanol alcohol. Methanol is a completely different alcohol. It is like apples and oranges, both fruits but both completely different. Methanol alcohol , which you are not making in any shape or form or component there of with what we are doing. That is because we are not running a hot fire. You are making methanol, when you are making ethanol alcohol by running too hot of a first and heating up your mash and breaking down the components of the mash parts of which are methanes and methanols. Methanols are very corrosive. The other slight caveat that might extend to some older vehicles that would work in a very slow motion matter is... It does not destroy the seals. The seals don't care about ethanol alcohol and whether is there is 80% water in it or not. Some older vehicles with different metal fuels lines, not the modern stainless steel ones, might have a very slow motion reaction to some of the water is in the lines. We have been running oxygenated fuels for a very long time in the country. Your fuel tanks aren't metal. They're high density polyethylene, they are blow molded plastic. The fuel pumps are all made to run off of oxygenated fuels. How do you oxygenate a fuel you add ethanol. We have been running 10% in our cars for over 25 to 30 years in most of the states, not it is in all of the states. We have been running ethanol in vehicles for a very long period of time. Let alone with today's flex fuel vehicles designed to take any amount of ethanol from 100% all the way down to E85 down to E20, E15, and stuff. All the material science for the components has been changed, so they are as neutral as you can possibly think of. Not only do our vehicles have to last to 10 to 15 years, they don't rot out as quickly as used to and people are keeping them longer. We don't know how the fuel system is going to change a good example of that, last year there was a big push to go from E10 which is where we are now 10% ethanol 90% gasoline to E15. Let's just put 5% more ethanol in all the fuel and get rid of 5% less gasoline that we have to import from the middle east and we make it domestically with corn, a whole other subject. That was getting pushed through and the automobile company was going "No No No, we don't have E15 in our manuals"! That is bible in anything in a car is what's in the manual. Never the less, the forethought of the vehicle if it can handle 10% ethanol it can handle 15% ethanol. If it can handle 15% ethanol it is going to handle your E85 that is going into it. Which which was the big problem we had someone writing, because David Blume tells you in "Alcohol Can Be a Gas" and I tell you the same thing, we run 50/50 of E85 and gasoline in our personal vehicles for years. There are no problem, no fuel line corrosion, not injector problems, no gasket problems. It is something you can start to do today.



Jack Spirko: To be fair to Ed Wallace now that I hear you said that. That was one of his big concerns was the manuals, and people getting screwed on warranty repairs by the manufacturer even if ethanol alcohol wasn't the cause of the problem. Where somebody goes "I have this fuel system problem" and they say "Did you run E15 or higher" and if they say yes, well ok. If everyone has been doing it at that point, they'll say "we know you have done it" and people not getting there warranties covered. Even if it wasn't the alcohol that caused the problem, because you have violated the manual.


Steven Harris: Yeah, exactly. The manual it the bible for the vehicle and it is what determines your warranty and everything else.

Jack Spirko: So we are making policy decisions based on a manual that is just a number the  throughout at the time, because it was the standard at the time.

Steven Harris: Yeah. The vehicle was engineered for the manual. You can sue a company based on what is in the owners manual. That is used for the defense in legal law suits all the time, is "It is not in the manual" or "It is in the manual, the manual states". A great deal of work goes into what is put into the manual of a vehicle. If you had a $90,000 Lexus and you got a 3 year warranty on the thing and everything else. I would feel comfortable wit you putting E85 with 50/50 mix into it. 92% alcohol with 8% water in it, I wouldn't put into my $90,000 Lexus. I would put it into one of my other vehicles. You had a whole guy on here talking about survival vehicles and $3,000 pickup trucks and everything else. That was a great show. This is a great place to start putting this type of fuel into your vehicle. I can get into whole other subject, maybe on another show, maybe on this show. We can convert our 92% to 100%. You ask me why can't you do it right now in the still, because at 92% alcohol the water and the ethanol are boiling of at the same temperature.


Jack Spirko: Sure

Steven Harris: We get higher yields of ethanol because the ethanol boils off first before the water does. Once you reach a certain point, about 184 proof the ethanol and the water are boiling off at the same time you can't separate them. So what do is you take your 92% ethanol and 8% water and you pour it through a molecular sieve. Which is a fancy word for certain types of diatomaceous earth and other compounds that have holes and pores in them of a certain diameter. What it does it absorbs the water out of the alcohol and it gives you 100% out of the bottom. These are commercially available products. I'll try to find some more sources for you, for the followup show with question and answers and stuff like that. Then we are talking about pure 200 proof, pure 100% alcohol that you can mix with gasoline, make your own E85, make your own E10. You wouldn't have any of the worries, because there wouldn't be the slightest amount of water in your fuel. Of course if you live in a winter climate, like I do and you have worries about condensation of water in your fuel tank in the winter time,in the winter time if your fuel tank isn't completely full. You pour some remover in there some heat or something else. What is this generally? Happens to be ethanol alcohol. You pour in ethanol alcohol to mix to allow the water to dissolve in with the gasoline so it is uniform, so it goes through the injectors into the engine and away you go.

Jack Spirko: Do you know why I love have you on the show? Because I get you started and then the questions that I have, you just keep going and answer them before I even ask. That was going next on. What do we do about the 8% water. I think that pretty much kill that question.


Steven Harris:  Yeah it does. Sometimes you need to say, "Steve, long answer or short answer".

Jack Spirko: <Laughs> No, you rock on. That is what people are here for is the information. You put together a whole little kit for people. With the book and the distiller and everything like that where they can get all of this at your website, right?

Steven Harris: Lets backup... If you want all the show notes and everything we just talked about it is at There will be a link there to all of my stuff, to my background at My website is Knowledge Publications you can signup for my famous free family preparedness class. Which thanks to Jack, I have had over a 108,000 people take my free family preparedness class. The link is on Signup is on It links you over That's me and my links. today will link you over to, exactly what is sounds like On there I have a complete kit. I have pallets of stuff ready to ship to you. I have a table top distiller ready to go. Again it holds 1 gallon internally, you put the top on it. It's like a coffee maker. You plug it into the wall and is distills alcohol into the bottle I have the test kit. It has a specific gravity hydrometer in it, which tells you how much sugar you have or do not have. Which you won't have to use for these beginning testes. It has the alcohol hydrometer which floats in the tube cylinder, the beaker, and it tells you what percentage of alcohol you have. You can use this to determine, "Hey, Steve ran for 3 hours and 25 minutes. I need to run for 3 hours and 15 minutes", so you can set your timer you get from Walmart to make your still production automated no babysitting required. Again this timer is an On/Off timer. You get it from Home Depot, Lowes, or Walmart. its $8, you plug it into the wall. You type in when to start when to stop. Also on the website w have the book "Alcohol Can Be a Gas" by David Blume, the bible on alcohol production. There is a picture of it and I got a quarter and a dime sitting on it, to show you just how big this thing is. Like I said, it will stop a 9mm bullet. We have David Blume's hour long DVD. Which is his entire class on alcohol. It is called "Alcohol Can Be a Gas DVD", it is up there on the website. And we have a combo deal for you. If you want the still and the measurement kit and the DVD and the book "Alcohol Can Be a Gas". I'll give you a discount, I'll give you free shipping on the combo for anyone in the USA, and throw in a free copy for Sun Shine to Dollars. Anyone outside the USA, Canada, Mexico, New Zealand, Australia.... You know what, you all listen to Jack's show from around the world, so I'll take care of you. You can email me and say where you are I'll write back to you real quick with a shipping price. The shipping price is no profit to us, it is the exact price to ship it to you. I don't have anything else on, it is just those things nothing extraneous. Nothing more than you need. It will get you started with making ethanol alcohol and really since we're on The Survival Podcast, Jack. Part of this show really has to do with survival, and part of survival has to do with bartering and trading. Which might be a post-apocalyptic non-law prevalent society. The knowledge of how to make your own alcohol, and ability to trade alcohol for goods and services, is a very powerful thing. It is technically illegal in The United States. Right now you can not make alcohol to drink.


Jack Spirko: Not with distilling. Wine and beer...

Steven Harris: Wine and beer, but you can't distill it. If you were one of those people who were putting things away for a post-apocalyptic things. This would be a good item. It is not illegal to own a still. You can own the without the permit. You're not supposed to make fuel alcohol without the permit from the federal government. Like I said it it the size of a coffee maker it fits on your kitchen countertop.

Jack Spirko: You can get your permit at You can get a permit if you need one. I am going to give one little tidbit here, Steve on how you can sort of cheat to distill and do it legally. I would be more like making a fortified wine or fortified beer. A German's would call it, Eiswein. What you can actually do if you bring an alcoholic wort, pre-beer beer, or a must of wine down to a temperature just slightly below freezing the first thing that will freeze will be what Steve?

Steven Harris: The water. Now the way you technically do this is...

Jack Spirko: <Laughs>

Steven Harris: To my under standing, I could be wrong... To my understanding it is illegal to freeze and concentrate wine in The United States. I could be wrong, you can Google it.

Jack Spirko: I don't think that is true. There is too many home brewers books with it in there as a technique.


Steven Harris: The way you do it is you put your mixture in the freezer, you keep it still, and you let it freeze. You keep on checking the temperature. Once it gets below 32 fahrenheit you drop in one ice cube and that is your seed crystal. Then all of the water will start freezing on that piece of ice, that you put in as the seed crystal. It will leave a higher concentration. You should do it with a seed crystal. It will kind of happen without the seed crystal. The seed crystal is just an ice cube. It makes the whole process go allot quicker.

Jack Spirko: Remove the slush and you have a fortified wine or a fortified beer.

Steven Harris: We would call that in Europe, brandy!

Jack Spirko: <laughs> I guess you're right. I haven't really thought about it.

Steven Harris: That is one of the ways of making brandy.

Jack Spirko: Now you know more then you did before.

Steven Harris: Right. You can read online about making alcohol to drink. There is something called the heads, the hearts, and the tails. The heads is about the first 2% of your alcohol. Out of this distiller you would collect first shot of what ever was coming out and you would pour it down the drain. Or use it as fuel. Then you would collect your middle and end runs. The first stuff coming off is some of the acetone,  ketones, and aldehydes which are made in the fermentation process. This is what gives you a hangover, is these components. You are trying to throw them away so you don't get a hangover. Not to say they are extensively harmful or anything. You might get a hangover from them. They will add some flavor some aroma to the alcohol. To put it into perspective when you make beer or wine all these byproducts are left over in the beer or wine that you are drinking. Which is the same thing as making the wash, to distill for the vodka that you would make with the still. That kind of puts it into perspective...


Jack Spirko: We just refer to them as impurities. They are impurities and that is what they are. That's why you get less of a hangover from a clear liquor like a vodka then you do from some good old Jack Daniels, will kind of turn into your worst nightmare if you over imbibe in something like that.

Steven Harris: Yep, you took the words out of my mouth. That is the difference from drinking Grey Goose and drinking the same amount of alcohol in wine. With one you will get a bad hang over and with the other you won't. It is because of all the foreshot products, all the heads that are left in it from the alcohol production processes. Which is just the way alcohol is made.

Jack Spirko: Absolutely. Very cool man. Again folks the website here is and will get you everything. Of course I'll have everything like I always do in our show notes. You'll be able to link to all of these just by going to The Survival Podcast and going to today's episode. I am sure, Steven you probably want to hear, we have opened a lot of minds and created a lot of questions because that is usually how those two things go together. I am sure you would love to hear all the questions we are going to get on this subject and comeback and answer them.


Steven Harris: Go to the show notes page, Jack's page where we talk about the show and enter all your questions. Enter everything you can think of, every truth, every fib, every myth, every fiction, every question, everything you have read. We will take care of them all on another show. Let me go down through my  notes here to make sure we haven't missed anything; Cheap donuts. Farm bread. Pastry droppings from places that make pastries and there dough falls on the floor all the time, you can get that as a cheap source of stock for making alcohol fuel. Coke syrup, if you live near a big post you can actually get molasses imported. Molasses is  imported into The United States all the time, for an addition to an animal feed. So you can get blackstrap molasses and other molasses before and after the sugars have been taken out. You can get it cheap and you can make your own alcohol from it. Cattails, you can make alcohol from cattails. It is very big in the book "Alcohol Can Be a Gas" he talks about cattail farming extensively. As you know you can eat most parts of cattails. If you can eat it, it's starch. If it is starch, you can covert it over to sugars. If it is sugar you can ferment it into alcohol.


Jack Spirko: That's awesome.

Steven Harris: Jerusalem artichokes you can grow in the ground that will make a high percentage of alcohol.

Jack Spirko: I want to stop you there. Sunchokes, the root tubers of sunchokes we can use to make alcohol?

Steven Harris: Jerusalem artichokes is what we call them

Jack Spirko: There's billions of those growing wild all over the south, from Florida to California.

Steven Harris: Yep, they grow like a weed. Sweet sorghum, is a sweeter version of sorghum you can use. Let's say you live in Washington state, like a friend of mine does. He gets bad apples by the barrel load. He runs them through an apple press. Compresses out the juice. He ferments the apple juice into alcohol all the time. What else is in my notes here... Oh god Jack, I learned a good thing from you about brewing. Something that makes a good brewing container is a 10gallon insulated barrel from Home Depot. That was an awesome trick you taught me. Let's see... It is legal in New Zealand, it is illegal in The United States. We covered the fuel system. The MSB discount. There is a Membership Brigade discount for me, Steven Harris, Knowledge Publications. The MSB discount applies to all of my book and DVDs on, there is a link at

Jack Spirko:  Folks that is 15% everything there

Steven Harris: Yeah. has a link to You get 15% off all of my book and all my DVDs. Join Jack's Membership Brigade. The 15% discount does not apply to I Make My Gas or to Alcohol Can Be a Gas and the distiller because those prices on that website we put up for you and for Jack's listeners are already at the lowest price we can offer. I just don't mess around I just give you the best price we can possibly even get, because you guys respond so good. The audience is so great. They love the stuff that we do. Satisfaction is guaranteed on everything we have. Don't worry I take care of you left and right. If there is any problems, any questions, anything with your order, anything with shipping. We respond quickly to our emails and we 100% take care of you. We especially take care of Jack's customers.

Jack Spirko: Cool man. I want to tell you folks, this kit that Steven has put together, I am going to get one. I'll just put it to you that way. I'll endorse it by saying I am going to get one. I do believe that he has the right name for his overall company. Which is Knowledge Publications. A lot of this stuff sound great, it sounds like great in theory. You can read a book on it, you can see all the stuff on it. Let's face it. If you have never done it before, you often feel over your head. When someone can put it together in a simple to assemble kit. Where you can just set it up, plug it in, and follow instructions, and do it. It switches the psychology from theory to practice. Once you have done it in practice, you start to see a million different ways that you can do it for yourself. It is not just an investment in a product that would do something for you, but an investment in a knowledge acquisition so you can take it further and as far as you choose to. Maybe this is all you want to do, if so this will do it for you. If you ever get to a point where you want to produce, I don't know, 50 gallons a month. This starts you on the path to be able to do that.


Steven Harris: Jack there is something we completely forgot. You're going to have to go to the front of the show and add something in. We are giving away 5 copy of the $47 book "Alcohol Can Be a Gas". We are giving away over 4th, the 5th, and the 6th of October (2011) for survival podcast listeners. So if you are listening to this right now and it is October 4th, the 5th, and the 6th of 2011. You can go to either get the link to The page will popup, there is a little video there, a little intro but scroll down just one half of a page and right next to the book "Alcohol Can Be a Gas", and keep in mind this is the 4 pound 600 page book it cost $47, there is a signup there for your name and your email. Enter your name and enter your email, it is all underneath privacy policy and Jack's policy. We don't sell or give away, you might get some emails from us that is about it. You put your name and email in there and the 1st person, the 5th person, the 20th person to sign up, the 100th person to sign up, and 500th person to sign up, will all get a free copy of "Alcohol Can Be a Gas" sent to them. If you already purchased it for me, either years ago or if you just picked upt the kit or the book on the website and you win, I will give you a check, a refund, trade credit, gold/silver/pennies, what ever you want. I will refund you money or I will send you a free book

Jack Spirko: <laughs> Awesome.

Steven Harris: Jack and Steve and me..... 'Steve and me' the same person  

Jack Spirko: <laughs> We will announce the winners, their first name and last initial and their state, and we will write to them personally. We will announce the winners on October 7th of 2011.

Steven Harris: We will announce the winners, their first name and last initial and their state, and we will write to them personally. We will announce the winners on October 7th of 2011.

Jack Spirko: Actually on the show, Steve, it will actually be the Monday after the weekend that I will make the announcement because I will be in Salt Lake for the Self Reliance Expo on that day. It will be on Solar1234.


Steven Harris: It will be on I'll email the person. Jack will email person, to say you won, so you know it is legit. We will publish the winners, so everyone knows we published the winners.

Jack Spirko: I want to do something right here because you keep talking about how big this book is. I am holding the book in my hand it is about 6 inches above my desk right now. <huge thud noise, as the book impacts the desk> That's the book...

Steven Harris: <Laughs>

Jack Spirko: <Laughs> It is really a bible on alcohol fuels. Steve, I love it because you always bring information. You always bring great opportunities for people. You have the heart of a servant and you want to increase peoples knowledge. Having you on the show with all of this is awesome. I love that you always do something for the audience, give something away so thanks for that.

Steven Harris: Jack, your audience really makes me go the extra mile. I worked for an entire week putting together, "what am I going to do for the show? What am I going to do for the show? What am I going to say?" I wanted to say it in step 1 2 3 4. I wanted to explain it. I wanted them to be able to do it, because your people by far more than anyone else takes what we talk about, you talk about, I talk about, and they run with it. They actually do it. As a teacher, you and I are, as an instructor, that is the biggest compliment that we can ever get. I am continually amazed people tell me, "I got your book sunshine to dollars. I got all this free glass. I got some solar panels for free and I made a hot water heater." I think with other authors we do the same thing it is like, "Someone actually did what we wrote about". Even after all of these years, I am continually amazed. When I get a response like that, I put in the extra midnight oil on it.

Jack Spirko: Again Steve it has been absolutely outstanding episode every time I have you on, I know you are going to want to come back. I just want to say thank you for being on The Survival Podcast and for volunteering to come back

Steven Harris: Thrilled. I will be back. Look for me in about a month or thereabouts. We'll take care of your questions and answers. My best to everyone.

Jack Spirko: With that this is has been Jack Spirko today along with one of my favorite Steven Harris. Helping you live that better life if times get tough, or even if they don't.


<closing song>


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