Author Topic: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival  (Read 51395 times)

Offline Knecht

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Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
« Reply #30 on: September 04, 2014, 12:58:51 PM »
Once I have the right steel and general production process managed, it doesn't really matter if I'll be forging spike or mattock on the tool, everyone can choose what he likes. Even splitting the end into several spikes (gardening style) is possible. I'd choose a thick narrow mattock myself, sort of the style of Brittish WW2 trench pick (the narrow side of it). I think it will bring the most use.
OK, that would be one tool, details can be managed later.
What else?

Offline Docwatmo

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Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
« Reply #31 on: September 04, 2014, 01:59:45 PM »
Agreed, I think the spike would definitely be more useful on the smaller unit for sure.

Now you got me thinking!    I've always been a fan of the old flat crowbars or roofing bars, 
LIke this


But they tend to be a little too wide for general use.  (Great for roofing but something half way between a standard crowbar and a flat bar in 18 inch length would be great.  Maybe keep it rounded in the middle for strength and flatten out toward the ends.

Also, my favorite utensil for dutch oven cooking is this thing
  But I'm not sure if there is anything you can do to improve upon it.  I use it both as a stand and as a handled to lift lids and carry them.  No idea, just thought I'd throw it out there because I love it so much. LOL

Another thing I've been thinking of building was a colapsable buck saw.  The wooden ones are ok, but they aren't very durable unless you make them out of larger heavier wood.  But I think making the frame from metal and making it foldable would make it more durable.  Sure it would be heavier, but would last much longer.   


And I've seen this guy around, some kind of blacksmiths tool I'd assume. but it looks pretty handy.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/toast_jr/3407690925/in/photostream/


Offline Docwatmo

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Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
« Reply #32 on: September 04, 2014, 02:08:31 PM »
This thing looks like a piece of junk, but I bet it could be made far better with drop in handle and better metal. Kind of going back to  chemsoldiers idea on the Pioneer tool set.  A single handle for multiple tool heads for more convient carry in a vehicle for example.


http://dragonimpact.com/biz/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=83_398&products_id=1455 

Offline Carl

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Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
« Reply #33 on: September 04, 2014, 02:10:20 PM »
A combo pry bar-wood saw-pot holder ,nobody has done that before...someone will buy it!

 ::)  Sorry ,I just had to say that. With all the amazing combo- 129 bladed survival knives...there is a real market for tools that are simple,quality,and proven designs. I do like the Pulaski modification mentioned earlier.

Offline Docwatmo

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Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
« Reply #34 on: September 04, 2014, 02:15:17 PM »
A combo pry bar-wood saw-pot holder ,nobody has done that before...someone will buy it!


Haaa.  Good one Carl.   ;D

Offline Carl

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Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
« Reply #35 on: September 04, 2014, 02:44:29 PM »
I was hoping the 'simple ,quality' part would be the quoted line. I have bought enough titanium digital USB 550 crowbar-fire starters...
NOW I am looking for the kind of tool that will outlast me.

Offline Knecht

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Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
« Reply #36 on: September 04, 2014, 02:56:54 PM »
Crowbar also came to my mind, but I thought they can be bought in most hardware stores. But if there's demand...why not. Maybe some scaled-down model again?

Offline Carl

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Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
« Reply #37 on: September 04, 2014, 03:00:12 PM »
Crowbar also came to my mind, but I thought they can be bought in most hardware stores. But if there's demand...why not. Maybe some scaled-down model again?

Maybe just a slight modification to the semi pulaski described above....

Offline Knecht

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Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
« Reply #38 on: September 04, 2014, 03:58:13 PM »
Well, maybe I should really offer the tool with axe blade and customized opposite side, chosen by the customer. Even a true crowbar can be crafted on it, no big deal.
Just a technical remark, I won't call it pulaski, nor a modification of it. In the link above, it says that certain Mr. Pulaski invented this tool. Sorry man, this tool can be tracked at least back to Aeneolithical age, made of copper. Can be seen as the roman "dolabra"then. I recall at least one medieval find as well, from the Slav-inhabited eastern part of today's Germany.
Anyway, that tool can be left aside for now. There were crowbars mentioned since then, that's what I ment when I suggested to make them in a smaller, backpacking size. Really not sure if that would make them sell well, as I saw several sizes of them factory-made already. IMO a handy tool is the "EOD Breacher Bar" that CountyComm sells. I made something like that for my bag kit (thicker and narrower though) and I have to say, that little tool is quite useful. Takes care of the kind of work you don't want to use your knife for (prying, digging...). But that's already made and sold by the CC, so ...

Offline Josh the Aspie

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Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
« Reply #39 on: September 04, 2014, 05:13:21 PM »
I can get good quality crows in various sizes and variations from tiny, through "barely sticks out of my hand on either end" to "length of the fore-arm", to "why would anyone besides a construction crew or a fireman ever buy one of these things!?!" all at the local hardware store.

I get that a breecher bar has a sharpening on one side, instead of just the tip (though I'm honestly not sure what that's really good for in the woods, if you want to dig with a semi-sharp side of something, why aren't you using a trowel?  I'd rather have a hatchet or a lighter saw/belt-knife combo, with a trowel for my cat-holes/digging than a breecher bar in the woods, personally).

I'm not saying don't make your own version to sell along side other useful tools if it's got a good use.  I'm just not seeing why a pry-bar is a good thing on the trail, or why this pry tool would be so much better than a $5 crow.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2014, 05:32:41 PM by Josh the Aspie »

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Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
« Reply #40 on: September 04, 2014, 05:29:11 PM »
A simple,  tool steel, spear head that can double as a Bushman style knife is what I am thinking.   I have a Cold Steel Bushman knife but wish it had a double edged blade.

Offline Knecht

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Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
« Reply #41 on: September 04, 2014, 05:37:02 PM »
The side edge on the Breacher bar can be used for various scraping, crushing and wedging. Surely understand if someone finds this tools unnecessary. It's one of the beauties of bushcrafting, eveone uses and carries what suits him best.

Spear point/Bushman style knife with double edge - sure, why not. I made spearheads before. Now I'd just focus on higher edge quality. Guess the CS Bushman could be re-ground though.

Offline Docwatmo

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Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
« Reply #42 on: September 04, 2014, 09:54:08 PM »
I keep a mini 8 or 10 inch breaching bar in my get home bag at work which sits behind me.  I work in a bunker and if there is damage outside the bunker area, the doors may be jammed, so the bar helps me get out if I have to.  It can also help me get into other doors to assist other employees to egress the building in case of damage.  I feel they are definitely more useful in an urban environment for bugout or emergency.  Not so much for bushcraft though.   I need to remember to get one for my vehicle.  Never know when it may come in handy to get a child out of a locked car in the parking lot, or breach a vehicle after an accident.


Offline Josh the Aspie

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Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
« Reply #43 on: September 05, 2014, 12:27:11 AM »
I keep a mini 8 or 10 inch breaching bar in my get home bag at work which sits behind me.  I work in a bunker and if there is damage outside the bunker area, the doors may be jammed, so the bar helps me get out if I have to.  It can also help me get into other doors to assist other employees to egress the building in case of damage.  I feel they are definitely more useful in an urban environment for bugout or emergency.  Not so much for bushcraft though.   I need to remember to get one for my vehicle.  Never know when it may come in handy to get a child out of a locked car in the parking lot, or breach a vehicle after an accident.

Okay, so why would they be more useful than, say, a mini crow bar?

Offline Knecht

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Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
« Reply #44 on: September 05, 2014, 04:58:55 AM »
I keep a crowbar in my car as well. One of the first items I ever forged, made of thick piece of concrete reinforcement steel bar.

Offline Docwatmo

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Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
« Reply #45 on: September 05, 2014, 05:37:37 AM »
Larger the bar, the better the mechanical advantage.  (Don't need a big one to break a window, but to pry a door open or bend metal of any significant size the bigger bar is much better).



Offline Josh the Aspie

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Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
« Reply #46 on: September 05, 2014, 10:40:04 AM »
Larger the bar, the better the mechanical advantage.  (Don't need a big one to break a window, but to pry a door open or bend metal of any significant size the bigger bar is much better).

Yes, I concur.  But if you have a mini-crow the same length as the breaching bar, and you want to be able to get yourself out of a room with possibly-jammed doors, and get others out also, what is the benefit of the breaching-bar design over a mini crow bar?  If you had two bars of the same length, same weight, one was a breaching, one was a mini-crow, other than the breaching laying flatter (and thus being easier to pack), why prefer the breaching over a mini-crow?

I'm not knocking your gear choice, I'm trying to understand it, to see if I need to get one of these tools or not.  I like new, cool gear.  I just force myself to understand a valid use case for it before I buy stuff, to make sure that
A. I have the right gear, and
B. I keep costs down.

Offline Docwatmo

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Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
« Reply #47 on: September 05, 2014, 06:34:19 PM »
The breaching bars I've looked at have additional features that make them a bit more flexible.  Do you need to get under a flat hinge?  Do you need a 90 degree head to get more leverage etc.    The breaching bar would not be a "Carry with me" tool, the mini is in my bag for that.  the breaching bar would strictly be kept in the room as a more powerful alternative.  (I would not be purchasing it, it would be a work tool also, which eases my mind on the cost).


Offline Docwatmo

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Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
« Reply #48 on: September 05, 2014, 06:35:40 PM »
This is the type of breaching bar I'm talking about.


Offline Josh the Aspie

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Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
« Reply #49 on: September 05, 2014, 06:48:46 PM »
Ahh, this is the kind that Knecht and I were talking about, since he had specifically mentioned the country comm.

http://www.countycomm.com/eodrtool.html

For in-city work, I'd prefer something like one of these to the eod robotics breacher bar.
http://www.lowes.com/pd_117699-16878-62897_0+2z8vj__?productId=4777013&Ntt=crow+bar&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNtt%3Dcrow%2Bbar%26page%3D1&facetInfo=$5%20-%20$10

http://www.lowes.com/pd_296521-355-55-003_0+2z8vj__?productId=3199831&Ntt=crow+bar&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNtt%3Dcrow%2Bbar%26page%3D1&facetInfo=$5%20-%20$10

I mean it's not any of the above 3 is going to be on my person, but rather is going to be in a car tool box or in a go bag.

I suppose if I was loaded with 100+lbs of gear including this, and I wanted something in one of my level III body armor pouches that wouldn't be poking me, or fraying my nylon cover like various army guys the eod bar might work for my needs better than a crow...

Offline joeinwv

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Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
« Reply #50 on: September 05, 2014, 07:31:48 PM »
A $5 crow bar from the store is neither a) tactical or 2) come with a kydex sheath. So there.

The pry bar in my bag looks like a Becker BK2...

Offline Josh the Aspie

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Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
« Reply #51 on: September 05, 2014, 07:45:53 PM »
A $5 crow bar from the store is neither a) tactical or 2) come with a kydex sheath. So there.

The pry bar in my bag looks like a Becker BK2...

*headscratch* I think you just made my point for me, maybe?

Offline Carl

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Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
« Reply #52 on: September 05, 2014, 07:50:15 PM »
I am so confused...or is it TOOL ENVY?....

Offline Docwatmo

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Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
« Reply #53 on: September 05, 2014, 08:27:33 PM »
That bostich moulding bar is the one in my get home bag.  It's great and small enough to be portable. 

Offline Josh the Aspie

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Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
« Reply #54 on: September 05, 2014, 10:44:22 PM »
Okay, so no one is dissing anyone else's tool choices.  Docwatmo and I tend to agree on urban mini prybar tech, and Knecht was talking about a different kind for bushcraft.

So I'm guessing we can get back to thinking up ideas for new tools.

Offline Greekman

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« Last Edit: September 06, 2014, 03:16:12 AM by GreekMan »

Offline Greekman

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Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
« Reply #56 on: September 06, 2014, 06:14:14 AM »
I got another idea....

What i always needed was a small pry bar that will have cutouts for the various utilities (sillocks , faucets etc), to serve the same function as the 4-way key
https://www.google.gr/search?q=utilikey&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:el:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb&gfe_rd=cr&ei=Q_oKVJSbLuPc8gfIsYHIAg#rls=org.mozilla:el:official&channel=sb&q=4-way+key

Offline Carl

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Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
« Reply #57 on: September 06, 2014, 07:46:08 AM »
Like a water/gas wrench/prybar/hatchet/can opener...OK maybe not the can opener....but make it black so it is tactical

You might find an idea here in this old book:

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B5ZIZLZV4AwIWmhJcE43a29Kdzg&usp=sharing
« Last Edit: September 06, 2014, 08:15:01 AM by Carl »

Offline Knecht

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Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
« Reply #58 on: September 06, 2014, 11:36:18 AM »
I'm sure I saw a combined tool that was a prybar/crowbar and served as a wrench for several types of screws and faucets. Just can't recall the name and maker. Surely saw it on ebay and amazon.

Offline Carl

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Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
« Reply #59 on: September 06, 2014, 11:42:15 AM »
I'm sure I saw a combined tool that was a prybar/crowbar and served as a wrench for several types of screws and faucets. Just can't recall the name and maker. Surely saw it on ebay and amazon.

But it has no can opener or cork screw....not tactical.

http://www.amazon.com/4-in-1-Emergency-Tool/dp/B001CSCC7I/ref=sr_1_1?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1410025255&sr=1-1&keywords=survival+gas+water+tool