The Survival Podcast Forum

Armory, Self Defense, And EDC => Edged Weapons and Tools => Topic started by: Knecht on September 02, 2014, 12:36:16 PM

Title: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Knecht on September 02, 2014, 12:36:16 PM
Being self-employed now, I make various stuff, maily historical replicas. But I also intend to make some handy tools for fellow preppers and EDC enthusiasts. Already have several in mind, some are inspired by ancient tools, others are new. But I'd love to hear the "vox populi" in this matter, so please, tell me what you miss in the tool market and I'll see if I can make that available for you and others to buy. Can be tool, can be weapon, can be multi-purpose.
I don't think there are any more survival knives needed, the market is quite full. Maybe some sort of parang or other chopping tool though.
If there's interest, I can make a special "TSP Limited" run of something, can even be numbered or named (I have letter and number punches). Sheaths and pouches are no problem, I do both leather and kydex.
Of course, you can also PM me with direct orders if there's something you already want and can't find any maker.

Thanks for your ideas!
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Docwatmo on September 02, 2014, 01:09:18 PM
I like multi-function single tools (I like multi-tools as well).  A tool should do several jobs well, but if you try to get too much going on it reduces the usefullness of the other tools.

One of the best forms of this kind of tools are my two favorites.

The camp axe/multitool  (hatchet with hammer and pry-bar built in).  Still functions 100% as well as any hatchet, but can also be used to pry apart frozen logs or breach a door if need be.

the other is one of my al time favorite tools, an old pair of fencing pliers, hammer, pliers, pry-bar, wire cutter all in a simple 2 piece tool. 

There are a lot of "Multi" tools out there that are just too weak for real work, or have so many functions that they don't do any 1 of them really well.  These two tools function absolutely bulletproof 100% for each function they were intended for.   

Just my 2 cents.  Can't wait to see what you come up with!

Doc


Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Docwatmo on September 02, 2014, 01:16:52 PM
Examples.

This good. 
(http://iwanties.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/garret_Wade_Box-Hatchet_gearpatrol-e1301424065186.jpg)



This bad. 
(http://img66.anypromo.com/product/large/704073_1.jpg)


My favorite old pair of pliers (Wish I still had the pair my grandfather had). 
(http://i21.geccdn.net/site/images/large/CPJ_181-193610VN.jpg)

Variations on these two tools would be the bomb.
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Knecht on September 02, 2014, 03:29:51 PM
Those are fine, but there's hardly a chance to make competition-capable handmade tools against these machined ones. I surely agree that tools need to be simple and rather do just couple jobs well, than many jobs wrong.
One of those I have in mind is inspired by a 9th century tool. It's usable as hatchet, cross-bladed hatchet, chisel, scraper, hoe.... depends on the type of handle you use. I believe it could get some attention among the preppers.
Also studying some 30years war tools, used by military engineers (Schanzknechts). Those are something between machetes, billhooks and cleavers, some also with handguards.
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Carl on September 02, 2014, 03:59:55 PM
How about an adaption of the ATAX  http://www.topsknives.com/product_info.php?products_id=223

Maybe a hollow handle for a handle to fit in(not for worthless junk) and at a more affordable price?
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Knecht on September 02, 2014, 04:12:49 PM
Well, if I just forge the blade and weld it onto a piece of pipe as hollow handle....surely could be made much cheaper.
But the ancient tool I'm about to make can be utilized as axe easily, without any need to take off the handle or anything. Forged of one piece, quite bulletproof.
But thanks for the idea, keep them coming!
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Carl on September 02, 2014, 04:27:47 PM
Well, if I just forge the blade and weld it onto a piece of pipe as hollow handle....surely could be made much cheaper.
But the ancient tool I'm about to make can be utilized as axe easily, without any need to take off the handle or anything. Forged of one piece, quite bulletproof.
But thanks for the idea, keep them coming!

But an axe is not a daily use tool and one that is light and easily to attach to a handle would be a plus for the man on foot,as a tool ,not especially a weapon. Many travelers in the past carried only the axe head as handles often weigh much more than the tool itself. An axe blade with hammer head (not a hatchet) would ,I think be of use.

Just an idea.
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Knecht on September 02, 2014, 06:04:55 PM
Everyday or occassional use of axe depends on where and how you live. I use axe most of the days. Would also depend on the targeted customer - I doubt many people would carry an axe/hatchet head as EDC, while for prepping and survival it's ok.
Axe head can surely be carried without shaft, though it takes some skill and time to carve one that would fit well (when speaking of a true axe with flattened or triangular shaft hole, where shaft has to be wedged). Ancient axes and tomahawks with rounded and conical shaft holes are much easier to make shafts for.
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: bcksknr on September 02, 2014, 09:30:02 PM
     A while back, there was a hatchet/knife/hammer tool that I wish I had bought. It had a straight cutting edge about 3 inches long that ended in a curve on one end, so that it could be used as a knife for field dressing, etc. The poll was round with an aggressive inside thread to attach the hatchet head to a green branch for chopping. the back of the head had a hammer face for pounding. It was forged all in one piece. It was comparatively lightweight and had a compact belt sheath. They were extensively advertised in old issues of American Survival Guide and I think they sold for about $50. I'd give lots to find one at a gun show or have one made.
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Chemsoldier on September 02, 2014, 09:38:59 PM
Pioneer tools (military term for a set of implements for cutting, chopping and digging usually secured on a vehicle)?  High quality pioneer tools.

Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Carl on September 03, 2014, 06:19:18 AM
     A while back, there was a hatchet/knife/hammer tool that I wish I had bought. It had a straight cutting edge about 3 inches long that ended in a curve on one end, so that it could be used as a knife for field dressing, etc. The poll was round with an aggressive inside thread to attach the hatchet head to a green branch for chopping. the back of the head had a hammer face for pounding. It was forged all in one piece. It was comparatively lightweight and had a compact belt sheath. They were extensively advertised in old issues of American Survival Guide and I think they sold for about $50. I'd give lots to find one at a gun show or have one made.

Probably a version of this....
http://www.topsknives.com/product_info.php?products_id=223
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Docwatmo on September 03, 2014, 06:42:01 AM
I love the drop on hawk heads.  So easy to use in the field, if you break a handle you can shave a stick till it fits.   But I'd like to see some different  designs.  A deeper curve on the cutting surface, also, extend and flatten the sides just a bit, (Use the flats on the side for a hammer instead of the rear) and some kind of wedge or deeply spiked splitting/tearing wedge on the back.  A hammer on the back is ok, but since I don't do a lot of hammering in the woods, the sides would cover that fine and the rear could be used for something more useful for ripping and tearing into earth or wood.  Also make it a bit heavier.  Many are made for throwing and are a bit light.  I'd like to see one with a little more heft behind it.
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Docwatmo on September 03, 2014, 06:57:43 AM
Here is the CRKT version. 
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NjAwWDYwMA==/z/ckwAAOSwcnpTq1z0/$_3.JPG)

The hammer on the back is not all that useful to me.  But if the sides were beefed up a bit and flattened the sides could be used as a hammer and the tail could be something more designed to break apart stumps and wood or dig trenches for planting or for digging up roots etc.   

Kind of like a mini mattock+
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Docwatmo on September 03, 2014, 07:05:05 AM
I have one of these and it's my absolute favorite gardening tool, but not as useful for bushcraft.  It it had a hatchet in place of the flat digger it would be much more useful when I'm out in the woods.  To dig up roots, etc.  It would work as both an axe/hatchet and a digging foraging tool. 

Whoops, forgot to post the pick

(http://img2.wfrcdn.com/lf/8/hash/8980/3491005/1/Classic%2BFlower%2Band%2BVegetable%2BTiller.jpg)
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: bcksknr on September 03, 2014, 11:31:22 AM
     Carl; the blade shape is perfect, but the one I'm thinking of had none of the fancy functions nor the vertical grip. The "grip" was like a swollen cylinder coming out from the center of the blade/edge at a horizontal 90 degree angle with the hammer face on the other end in the center of this "grip" was the large threaded hole for a green branch to be screwed in if more of a traditional chopping tool was needed. Otherwise the "grip" was held in the fist with the blade down and it could be used much like an Inuit ulu knife. I'll try to find a picture or make a drawing.
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Carl on September 03, 2014, 11:37:37 AM
     Carl; the blade shape is perfect, but the one I'm thinking of had none of the fancy functions nor the vertical grip. The "grip" was like a swollen cylinder coming out from the center of the blade/edge at a horizontal 90 degree angle with the hammer face on the other end in the center of this "grip" was the large threaded hole for a green branch to be screwed in if more of a traditional chopping tool was needed. Otherwise the "grip" was held in the fist with the blade down and it could be used much like an Inuit ulu knife. I'll try to find a picture or make a drawing.

I like the linded tool,but all of the gadgets are not of interest,the basic tool is . Your described tool interests me.
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Knecht on September 03, 2014, 01:35:21 PM
I guess a Roman "dolabra" would be one of the ways to go, maybe scaled down to tomahawk size. It's axe on one side and flat pick on the other. The legionaries carried these tools to build field fortifications.
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Docwatmo on September 03, 2014, 01:39:40 PM
Yes!   That is what I'm talking about, useful for both cutting and building as well as foraging.   True multi function bushcraft tool that doesn't become the specialized extra weight tool to drag around.  LOVE IT!
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Knecht on September 03, 2014, 02:24:59 PM
Ok, I can forge a couple of those. Would leave the sides thicker for hammer use.
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Josh the Aspie on September 03, 2014, 02:39:25 PM
Also, this may be obvious but, if (after the prototypes) it's mass produced, but not made of high quality materials, there's no reason to buy.  Even if it's the neatest thing ever, if it wears out quickly, or fails when I need it, it's not something of interest.

Also, as far as handles go, either forged directly into the tool as a whole, or something field replaceable is a must.

For the grip, the best design would depend on if your hand should stay firmly in one place the whole time (with a possible second hand coming in), such as with a sword, or if you want to be able to choke up / change your grip, as with an axe or hammer.

If it should change location on the haft over time, then something like this handle would be ideal (scaled differently based on size, of course).  Of course if you're going to use it as an impact too in multiple directions, the sculpting you can do to the handle, other than to give it a stop at the end will be limited.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6b/An_axe_labelled-2edit.svg/222px-An_axe_labelled-2edit.svg.png)

If the hand should stay in one place comfortably, then a palm swell like the ones pictured here:


(http://www.templ.net/pics-weapons/138-viking_sword/138-hilt-v.jpg)

(http://www.medievalcollectibles.com/images/PRODUCT/large/SG249_1_.png)


Note, I'm not talking about how fancy it is, but the functional element in the fact that it swells near the center of the grip, so as to more comfortably fit the hand.

Also, the grip should never be perfectly round (as this makes it harder to direct your strikes with the tool), but more of an ovoid in cross-section.

Of course, if you can already make tools, you've probably got your own opinion on all of these handle design questions, and probably know more than I do... but these are the design elements that came to mind when you asked for help with design.
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Knecht on September 03, 2014, 03:06:09 PM
Thanks for the input. As for handles and shafts, I guess that many people would appreciate the possibility to make their own shaft of a stick in the woods. So I'd leave the shaft shape to everyone's taste. I have a lathe, so I can make some turned shafts if someone wanted them. Maybe something like on a trench shovel? You're right that circular crosscut shafts tend to be uneasy sometimes to aim the tool properly, but I believe that bushcraft people would be handy enough to manage that.
Funny, the sword in the first picture was made By Patrick Bárta, a Czech like me. I even know him.
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Josh the Aspie on September 03, 2014, 03:39:56 PM
I agree that being able to make a replacement shaft in the woods is a very good thing.  I even like the idea given before of a head with aggressive threading built in to allow you to screw the head down onto a piece of wood, so as not to need to wedge your new shaft.

But unless you're trying to have some serious savings on weight when packing your tool to the location you'll use it, that's no reason not to start out with the best quality handle you can (aged oak or ironwood, in an ideal shape, for example).

A trenching shovel style handle would definitely be better than a simple strait rod, but were you making it for me, I'd prefer an ovoid cross-section.

If you're hand-forging these, or custom designing them from high quality materials, I'm guessing you're going to price accordingly.  And if you're going to charge at or above wetterling prices, I'd want wetterling quality.

Of course, if you're only going to charge $50 for a quality product that doesn't come with a head, and I can just grab a decent hatchet or hammer haft from the hardware store and wedge it myself, it's not that big of a deal.

A lot depends on what the quality you see yourself able to get up to reliably is, what quality you want to hold yourself to at a minimum is, the costs of each, and what market in between you want to target.

Of course that's assuming you're looking at making this a product you'd place on the market long-term, rather than a neat project you sell to forum buddies, and then drop for the next fun project, as you develop your skills.
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Knecht on September 03, 2014, 04:37:10 PM
I believe I could make the heads for about $50 in decent quality. I'll need to make a prototype and look for suitable steel. So far I never made larger series of the same item and used to get materials on a random basis. This will require the same type of steel and same tempering process, to achieve the same quality on all of them.
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Josh the Aspie on September 03, 2014, 05:04:42 PM
So, to make sure I get what you're proposing right, you're talking about a 3 function tool.  Axe/hatechet head for one, a flat bladed digging pick / mattok for another (which would also provide good prying capability, just with a different angle from a crow-bar end), with flattened and slightly heavier sides to allow for hammering.

You are going to design it so that the end user can easily attach a new haft in the field (be this due to the aggressive screw that bcksknr mentioned, or some other method.

You plan to make this of decent quality steel, but not build it up to the absolute apex of quality, and you intend to sell this head for around $50?  Or is that the manufacturing price before markup?

If you sold that product in the $50-$60 range, I think that it'd fit a very nice price niche between cold steel hatchets, and the woodman's pal, and it'd fit a good niche for practical multiple use tools.

Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Knecht on September 03, 2014, 05:27:55 PM
I don't have tools to make the aggressive inner threading, so the good old friction fit will have to do. Some of my medieval axe reproductions I regularly use for woodworking have their shafts attached the same way and they hold fine.
I hope to hold the $50 as the selling price, though I really can't promise untill I see what steel am I going to use (needs to work for fine axe edge and durable pick/mattock/prybar as well) and make a prototype.
You think the customers would only be interested in a tomahawk-sized tool, or some larger version as well?
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Docwatmo on September 03, 2014, 05:59:40 PM
Tomahawk sized and i like the pull through hawk handles as well.   
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Josh the Aspie on September 03, 2014, 06:07:33 PM
I don't have tools to make the aggressive inner threading, so the good old friction fit will have to do. Some of my medieval axe reproductions I regularly use for woodworking have their shafts attached the same way and they hold fine.

I had to look up this method of fitting, and I don't particularly see a problem with it, so long as you can find a branch that broadens/narrows perfectly for the head, or have a good knife to make adjustments.  It does sound like it'd be more work to make the handle than with the threads, and like it'd be best to just bring your own handle with you, rather than making the handles anew each time you camp.

You think the customers would only be interested in a tomahawk-sized tool, or some larger version as well?

I can't really offer a good opinion on.   I could maybe see some folks that do hand clearing of land around the homestead wanting such a tool, but how many people do that any more?  If I were in your shoes, I'd poke Cedar, and ask if she or Z would want such a tool, and if they can already get a quality version of it, or if you'd be trying to enter a niche that is already filled.
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: joeinwv on September 03, 2014, 09:57:39 PM
You're making a smallish, one handed pulaski. Most commercial versions are in the 3.5# / 36" handle range.

I think a 2# head would be nice with a 24" handle. Slip fit like a hawk. Maybe something like 1095 with a differential heat treat so it can hold an edge and also not break.
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Josh the Aspie on September 04, 2014, 10:53:26 AM
Pulaski links:
wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulaski_(tool))
THE PULASKI: THE MOST USEFUL TOOL YOU'VE PROBABLY NEVER HEARD OF (http://www.esquire.com/blogs/endorsement/pulaski-tool-061509)
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Docwatmo on September 04, 2014, 11:51:55 AM
I have used a Pulaski before (Had no idea that's what it was called though  LOL).  The design is a bit heavier than I'd like, and I like the spike on the dolabra a bit better).  If it was going to be a full sized tool, the Pulaski design would be desirable, but for a smaller hawk sized version, I'm liking the dolabra design a bit better.  (I'd also like to see a wider "Hawk" style head rather than a standard hatchet head like on the pulaski).

I'm thinking a backpacking tool to replace my typical hawk or hatchet with an improved version.




Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Knecht on September 04, 2014, 12:58:51 PM
Once I have the right steel and general production process managed, it doesn't really matter if I'll be forging spike or mattock on the tool, everyone can choose what he likes. Even splitting the end into several spikes (gardening style) is possible. I'd choose a thick narrow mattock myself, sort of the style of Brittish WW2 trench pick (the narrow side of it). I think it will bring the most use.
OK, that would be one tool, details can be managed later.
What else?
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Docwatmo on September 04, 2014, 01:59:45 PM
Agreed, I think the spike would definitely be more useful on the smaller unit for sure.

Now you got me thinking!    I've always been a fan of the old flat crowbars or roofing bars, 
LIke this
(http://www.galco.com/images/mito/large/3305_p.jpg)

But they tend to be a little too wide for general use.  (Great for roofing but something half way between a standard crowbar and a flat bar in 18 inch length would be great.  Maybe keep it rounded in the middle for strength and flatten out toward the ends.

Also, my favorite utensil for dutch oven cooking is this thing
(http://static.katomcdn.com/products/261/261-loda53_large.jpg)  But I'm not sure if there is anything you can do to improve upon it.  I use it both as a stand and as a handled to lift lids and carry them.  No idea, just thought I'd throw it out there because I love it so much. LOL

Another thing I've been thinking of building was a colapsable buck saw.  The wooden ones are ok, but they aren't very durable unless you make them out of larger heavier wood.  But I think making the frame from metal and making it foldable would make it more durable.  Sure it would be heavier, but would last much longer.   
(http://www.douglas.co.us/museum/vex5/images/294FE5DD-17E8-4F4D-B516-679231674750.jpg)

And I've seen this guy around, some kind of blacksmiths tool I'd assume. but it looks pretty handy.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/toast_jr/3407690925/in/photostream/

Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Docwatmo on September 04, 2014, 02:08:31 PM
This thing looks like a piece of junk, but I bet it could be made far better with drop in handle and better metal. Kind of going back to  chemsoldiers idea on the Pioneer tool set.  A single handle for multiple tool heads for more convient carry in a vehicle for example.


http://dragonimpact.com/biz/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=83_398&products_id=1455 
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Carl on September 04, 2014, 02:10:20 PM
A combo pry bar-wood saw-pot holder ,nobody has done that before...someone will buy it!

 ::)  Sorry ,I just had to say that. With all the amazing combo- 129 bladed survival knives...there is a real market for tools that are simple,quality,and proven designs. I do like the Pulaski modification mentioned earlier.
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Docwatmo on September 04, 2014, 02:15:17 PM
A combo pry bar-wood saw-pot holder ,nobody has done that before...someone will buy it!


Haaa.  Good one Carl.   ;D
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Carl on September 04, 2014, 02:44:29 PM
I was hoping the 'simple ,quality' part would be the quoted line. I have bought enough titanium digital USB 550 crowbar-fire starters...
NOW I am looking for the kind of tool that will outlast me.
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Knecht on September 04, 2014, 02:56:54 PM
Crowbar also came to my mind, but I thought they can be bought in most hardware stores. But if there's demand...why not. Maybe some scaled-down model again?
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Carl on September 04, 2014, 03:00:12 PM
Crowbar also came to my mind, but I thought they can be bought in most hardware stores. But if there's demand...why not. Maybe some scaled-down model again?

Maybe just a slight modification to the semi pulaski described above....
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Knecht on September 04, 2014, 03:58:13 PM
Well, maybe I should really offer the tool with axe blade and customized opposite side, chosen by the customer. Even a true crowbar can be crafted on it, no big deal.
Just a technical remark, I won't call it pulaski, nor a modification of it. In the link above, it says that certain Mr. Pulaski invented this tool. Sorry man, this tool can be tracked at least back to Aeneolithical age, made of copper. Can be seen as the roman "dolabra"then. I recall at least one medieval find as well, from the Slav-inhabited eastern part of today's Germany.
Anyway, that tool can be left aside for now. There were crowbars mentioned since then, that's what I ment when I suggested to make them in a smaller, backpacking size. Really not sure if that would make them sell well, as I saw several sizes of them factory-made already. IMO a handy tool is the "EOD Breacher Bar" that CountyComm sells. I made something like that for my bag kit (thicker and narrower though) and I have to say, that little tool is quite useful. Takes care of the kind of work you don't want to use your knife for (prying, digging...). But that's already made and sold by the CC, so ...
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Josh the Aspie on September 04, 2014, 05:13:21 PM
I can get good quality crows in various sizes and variations from tiny, through "barely sticks out of my hand on either end" to "length of the fore-arm", to "why would anyone besides a construction crew or a fireman ever buy one of these things!?!" all at the local hardware store.

I get that a breecher bar has a sharpening on one side, instead of just the tip (though I'm honestly not sure what that's really good for in the woods, if you want to dig with a semi-sharp side of something, why aren't you using a trowel?  I'd rather have a hatchet or a lighter saw/belt-knife combo, with a trowel for my cat-holes/digging than a breecher bar in the woods, personally).

I'm not saying don't make your own version to sell along side other useful tools if it's got a good use.  I'm just not seeing why a pry-bar is a good thing on the trail, or why this pry tool would be so much better than a $5 crow.
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: d3nni5 on September 04, 2014, 05:29:11 PM
A simple,  tool steel, spear head that can double as a Bushman style knife is what I am thinking.   I have a Cold Steel Bushman knife but wish it had a double edged blade.
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Knecht on September 04, 2014, 05:37:02 PM
The side edge on the Breacher bar can be used for various scraping, crushing and wedging. Surely understand if someone finds this tools unnecessary. It's one of the beauties of bushcrafting, eveone uses and carries what suits him best.

Spear point/Bushman style knife with double edge - sure, why not. I made spearheads before. Now I'd just focus on higher edge quality. Guess the CS Bushman could be re-ground though.
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Docwatmo on September 04, 2014, 09:54:08 PM
I keep a mini 8 or 10 inch breaching bar in my get home bag at work which sits behind me.  I work in a bunker and if there is damage outside the bunker area, the doors may be jammed, so the bar helps me get out if I have to.  It can also help me get into other doors to assist other employees to egress the building in case of damage.  I feel they are definitely more useful in an urban environment for bugout or emergency.  Not so much for bushcraft though.   I need to remember to get one for my vehicle.  Never know when it may come in handy to get a child out of a locked car in the parking lot, or breach a vehicle after an accident.

Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Josh the Aspie on September 05, 2014, 12:27:11 AM
I keep a mini 8 or 10 inch breaching bar in my get home bag at work which sits behind me.  I work in a bunker and if there is damage outside the bunker area, the doors may be jammed, so the bar helps me get out if I have to.  It can also help me get into other doors to assist other employees to egress the building in case of damage.  I feel they are definitely more useful in an urban environment for bugout or emergency.  Not so much for bushcraft though.   I need to remember to get one for my vehicle.  Never know when it may come in handy to get a child out of a locked car in the parking lot, or breach a vehicle after an accident.

Okay, so why would they be more useful than, say, a mini crow bar?
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Knecht on September 05, 2014, 04:58:55 AM
I keep a crowbar in my car as well. One of the first items I ever forged, made of thick piece of concrete reinforcement steel bar.
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Docwatmo on September 05, 2014, 05:37:37 AM
Larger the bar, the better the mechanical advantage.  (Don't need a big one to break a window, but to pry a door open or bend metal of any significant size the bigger bar is much better).


Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Josh the Aspie on September 05, 2014, 10:40:04 AM
Larger the bar, the better the mechanical advantage.  (Don't need a big one to break a window, but to pry a door open or bend metal of any significant size the bigger bar is much better).

Yes, I concur.  But if you have a mini-crow the same length as the breaching bar, and you want to be able to get yourself out of a room with possibly-jammed doors, and get others out also, what is the benefit of the breaching-bar design over a mini crow bar?  If you had two bars of the same length, same weight, one was a breaching, one was a mini-crow, other than the breaching laying flatter (and thus being easier to pack), why prefer the breaching over a mini-crow?

I'm not knocking your gear choice, I'm trying to understand it, to see if I need to get one of these tools or not.  I like new, cool gear.  I just force myself to understand a valid use case for it before I buy stuff, to make sure that
A. I have the right gear, and
B. I keep costs down.
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Docwatmo on September 05, 2014, 06:34:19 PM
The breaching bars I've looked at have additional features that make them a bit more flexible.  Do you need to get under a flat hinge?  Do you need a 90 degree head to get more leverage etc.    The breaching bar would not be a "Carry with me" tool, the mini is in my bag for that.  the breaching bar would strictly be kept in the room as a more powerful alternative.  (I would not be purchasing it, it would be a work tool also, which eases my mind on the cost).

Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Docwatmo on September 05, 2014, 06:35:40 PM
This is the type of breaching bar I'm talking about.

(https://www.entrygear.com/productimages/511%20multibreacher%20bar.jpg)
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Josh the Aspie on September 05, 2014, 06:48:46 PM
Ahh, this is the kind that Knecht and I were talking about, since he had specifically mentioned the country comm.

http://www.countycomm.com/eodrtool.html

For in-city work, I'd prefer something like one of these to the eod robotics breacher bar.
http://www.lowes.com/pd_117699-16878-62897_0+2z8vj__?productId=4777013&Ntt=crow+bar&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNtt%3Dcrow%2Bbar%26page%3D1&facetInfo=$5%20-%20$10

http://www.lowes.com/pd_296521-355-55-003_0+2z8vj__?productId=3199831&Ntt=crow+bar&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNtt%3Dcrow%2Bbar%26page%3D1&facetInfo=$5%20-%20$10

I mean it's not any of the above 3 is going to be on my person, but rather is going to be in a car tool box or in a go bag.

I suppose if I was loaded with 100+lbs of gear including this, and I wanted something in one of my level III body armor pouches that wouldn't be poking me, or fraying my nylon cover like various army guys the eod bar might work for my needs better than a crow...
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: joeinwv on September 05, 2014, 07:31:48 PM
A $5 crow bar from the store is neither a) tactical or 2) come with a kydex sheath. So there.

The pry bar in my bag looks like a Becker BK2...
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Josh the Aspie on September 05, 2014, 07:45:53 PM
A $5 crow bar from the store is neither a) tactical or 2) come with a kydex sheath. So there.

The pry bar in my bag looks like a Becker BK2...

*headscratch* I think you just made my point for me, maybe?
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Carl on September 05, 2014, 07:50:15 PM
I am so confused...or is it TOOL ENVY?....
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Docwatmo on September 05, 2014, 08:27:33 PM
That bostich moulding bar is the one in my get home bag.  It's great and small enough to be portable. 
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Josh the Aspie on September 05, 2014, 10:44:22 PM
Okay, so no one is dissing anyone else's tool choices.  Docwatmo and I tend to agree on urban mini prybar tech, and Knecht was talking about a different kind for bushcraft.

So I'm guessing we can get back to thinking up ideas for new tools.
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Greekman on September 06, 2014, 03:09:03 AM
here is an idea

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGLUOjx7Z5k

especially on 8:00

edited to add:
https://www.rigguy.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=44&osCsid=oepfcdsfh&osCsid=oepfcdsfh
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Greekman on September 06, 2014, 06:14:14 AM
I got another idea....

What i always needed was a small pry bar that will have cutouts for the various utilities (sillocks , faucets etc), to serve the same function as the 4-way key
https://www.google.gr/search?q=utilikey&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:el:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb&gfe_rd=cr&ei=Q_oKVJSbLuPc8gfIsYHIAg#rls=org.mozilla:el:official&channel=sb&q=4-way+key
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Carl on September 06, 2014, 07:46:08 AM
Like a water/gas wrench/prybar/hatchet/can opener...OK maybe not the can opener....but make it black so it is tactical

You might find an idea here in this old book:

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B5ZIZLZV4AwIWmhJcE43a29Kdzg&usp=sharing
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Knecht on September 06, 2014, 11:36:18 AM
I'm sure I saw a combined tool that was a prybar/crowbar and served as a wrench for several types of screws and faucets. Just can't recall the name and maker. Surely saw it on ebay and amazon.
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Carl on September 06, 2014, 11:42:15 AM
I'm sure I saw a combined tool that was a prybar/crowbar and served as a wrench for several types of screws and faucets. Just can't recall the name and maker. Surely saw it on ebay and amazon.

But it has no can opener or cork screw....not tactical.

http://www.amazon.com/4-in-1-Emergency-Tool/dp/B001CSCC7I/ref=sr_1_1?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1410025255&sr=1-1&keywords=survival+gas+water+tool
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Black November on September 06, 2014, 12:09:58 PM
I am waiting for someone to make a quality knife that stores a bic lighter in the handle. Not like the cheap Rambo knives of the 80's w/ the fishing kits. Just a simple elegant knife and lighter.
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Knecht on September 06, 2014, 01:46:45 PM
That's not it. It was bigger, more like a fullsize crowbar or such.
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Greekman on September 07, 2014, 12:39:04 AM
I'm sure I saw a combined tool that was a prybar/crowbar and served as a wrench for several types of screws and faucets. Just can't recall the name and maker. Surely saw it on ebay and amazon.
maybe something like this.
http://www.starlex.fi/verkkokauppa/images/pocketwrench_ii_0512_f6d_0901_5a5.jpg
i have one but i need a rectangular opening for the European style faucets that have the knobs removed


Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Greekman on September 07, 2014, 12:41:01 AM
here is an idea
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGLUOjx7Z5k
especially on 8:00
edited to add:
https://www.rigguy.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=44&osCsid=oepfcdsfh&osCsid=oepfcdsfh

Someone did it within days of asking
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10202978785493579&set=o.453208754723615&type=1&theater
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Knecht on September 07, 2014, 03:49:03 AM
maybe something like this.
http://www.starlex.fi/verkkokauppa/images/pocketwrench_ii_0512_f6d_0901_5a5.jpg
i have one but i need a rectangular opening for the European style faucets that have the knobs removed

Perhaps you can draw it and I'll see if I can custom make it for you.
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Carl on September 07, 2014, 05:30:53 PM
This might get an idea started....

http://www.amazon.com/Forrest-Tool-Company-Max-Ax/dp/B00GUSHA72/ref=sr_1_169?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1410132378&sr=1-169&keywords=survival+tool+axe
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Knecht on September 08, 2014, 04:11:33 AM
One of the ancient tools I plan to make can already do most of that, being just one small piece of steel. Will take some more effort to do heavier work with a small tool, of course. But thanks for the idea, Carl. Keep them coming.
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Knecht on October 26, 2015, 01:58:49 PM
I guess a Roman "dolabra" would be one of the ways to go, maybe scaled down to tomahawk size. It's axe on one side and flat pick on the other. The legionaries carried these tools to build field fortifications.

Remember this? Well, stay tuned, my survival dolabra has one more forging  round ahead and then you'll see it. The dolabra prototype....make sure to buy it! It will be a valued collectible one day :)
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Knecht on October 27, 2015, 03:21:24 PM
Here it is, rough from the forge, before some fine mods, sharpening and then the final quenching/tempering. I made the axe blade thinner to save on weight, as most of the weight is concentrated to the central eye. It's shaped much like the "trade hatchet" which I consider a good universal axe shape. Since the biggest disadvantage of double-sided tools is losing the chance to hammer with it, unless you do it with the side of the eye. Well, the Romans knew it just as we do, so on some dolabras they added material to the sides and flattened it to enhance the hammering use. I thought that was pretty cool idea and did it as well. The other side of the tool is left more massive on my version, rather a pick/prying tool than mattock. If someone wanted though, on other pieces I can forge the pick side to more flat and wide shape. The shaft eye is left round and slightly tapered to allow using simple shafts made of saplings/branches. When attaching a shaft, put the head on it from the shaft's bottom end, just like current picks are attached.
Let me know what you think and if someone wants it, send me a PM.

(http://knecht.novarata.net/?di=9GO1)

(http://knecht.novarata.net/?di=1DAM)

(http://knecht.novarata.net/?di=T5FE)

Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: endurance on October 27, 2015, 03:55:09 PM
Wow.  Nice
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Docwatmo on October 27, 2015, 04:15:21 PM
NICE!!!  I like the overall shape.  I have a CRKT Kangee and the one thing I'd like to see is a flatter side on the center hole for hammering.  This is awesome!!
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Carl on October 27, 2015, 04:15:43 PM
Add a 17th century paracord wrapped handle and that looks like a great tool. :P
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Knecht on October 27, 2015, 04:41:42 PM
Glad you guys like it. You think it would sell? Shall I make some more? Guess I could sell them for about $40-50 plus postage.
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: endurance on October 27, 2015, 05:42:56 PM
What's the weight and what is the hole diameter?
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: mxitman on October 27, 2015, 10:02:58 PM
whats the shipping to US?, specifically WA-98110

Also if you need any product research done for Amazon, I can do that...
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Docwatmo on October 28, 2015, 05:45:42 AM
With a good heat treat, I'd easily pay $40 or $50 each for 3 of them.     I also do a gear review, I'd be happy to run it through it's paces and give an honest review.  (So it better be good LOL).
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Knecht on October 29, 2015, 01:42:40 PM
Sorry it's taking so long, I had to cut some firewood and such. The dolabra has the edges and hammerinf flats filed, now it only needs good heat treatment done and it's ready for action.
I'll check the weight when I can.
Shipping to the US would be $23 (tracked, insured).
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: David in MN on October 29, 2015, 02:03:05 PM
Knecht-

Something I'm considering making myself. But I know your metal work is superior to mine so I thought I'd toss it your way. As an EDC pocket clip I see a lot of use from keys to multitools. And being so little, it's a good "turn and burn" project that could hold a good profit margin in the right market.

Like I say, given some time I'll be making my own for sure. I definitely want one for my current EDC SAK "Outrider" model so it hangs correctly from my jeans pocket. After I make mine I'll see if I can get a market. Maybe you'll beat me to the punch  ;) .

https://www.bestmadeco.com/products/brass-keyhook-keychain?taxon_id=973
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: FreeLancer on October 29, 2015, 02:33:24 PM
Quote from: David in MN link=topic=51456.msg659585#msg659585 date
I definitely want one for my current EDC SAK "Outrider" model so it hangs correctly from my jeans pocket.

So you're EDCing the big SAK, after all?  Update the other thread, I'm curious what changed your mind.
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Knecht on October 29, 2015, 05:08:42 PM
Knecht-

Something I'm considering making myself. But I know your metal work is superior to mine so I thought I'd toss it your way. As an EDC pocket clip I see a lot of use from keys to multitools. And being so little, it's a good "turn and burn" project that could hold a good profit margin in the right market.

Like I say, given some time I'll be making my own for sure. I definitely want one for my current EDC SAK "Outrider" model so it hangs correctly from my jeans pocket. After I make mine I'll see if I can get a market. Maybe you'll beat me to the punch  ;) .

https://www.bestmadeco.com/products/brass-keyhook-keychain?taxon_id=973

No problem, I can make such clip easily. Either forge it of iron, or have it cast of bronze, but that would cost much more. I could surely forge it for less than what they offer there.
Not sure if I would want to use it myself though, as it seems too easy to get unhooked and your item is either lost, or falls back to the pocket like the clip was never there. Perhaps if it was more closed?
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Knecht on October 30, 2015, 05:23:47 PM
Here it is! Heat treated, sharpened. I'll give it some basic testing tomorrow, to see how the edge holds up.
I used a 12ga shell for size comparison, as many members are likely not too familiar with my usual 5cm metric scale.

(http://knecht.novarata.net/?di=7ANE)

(http://knecht.novarata.net/?di=ZWCD)
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Carl on October 31, 2015, 03:37:06 AM
Get it to FIRE 12 gauge and you have a tool for all needs.... :o
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Knecht on October 31, 2015, 06:26:36 AM
You can always use a 12ga barrel as shaft....:)

So anyway, it's for sale. $45 for the tool, $23 international shipping CZ-US. That's for insured and trackable shipment. Some other stuff could still be added to the package, as that price is for 1kg. The dolabra weighs 643g (22,6oz). So I can add a forged knife, fire strikers, etc.
I accept Paypal.
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Knecht on November 01, 2015, 08:46:18 PM
What, too much?
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Carl on November 01, 2015, 09:22:06 PM
What, too much?

I would get one,but my 'woods' days appear limited now....very limited. :'(
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Docwatmo on November 02, 2015, 05:25:24 AM
I will be ordering at least 1 if not 2 or 3, but it won't be until after Christmas.   Just have to many other things that require my funding right now. 

And the $45 price is VERY reasonable!   
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Knecht on November 03, 2015, 09:02:23 AM
You can have it reserved if you like...
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: endurance on November 03, 2015, 11:17:19 AM
I'm planning on getting one, but money is a little tight right now with the holidays coming and a few fall projects that need buttoning up.  It might be late winter or early spring before I get around to it.
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Knecht on January 17, 2016, 09:02:45 AM
I realized I still have the dolabra tool. Anyone actualy wants to buy it here, before it goes to ebay?
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Cedar on January 17, 2016, 09:11:45 AM
What about a steel kit, in a pouch of some kind (nylon even), along with a flint stone and tinder bag?

(http://www.jelldragon.com/images2/ca_fire_steel.jpg)

They look pretty easy to make on a forge, but my thing was cooking tools and nails, so I never got around to making one of these.

Cedar
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Knecht on January 17, 2016, 02:26:10 PM
Way too many people make steel firestrikers, prices are very low. I make them now and then, too. They sell well, but aren't much of a novelty item. I actualy made one that included a multi-purpose spike on one end. Some guy over at the AK Files forum bought it quickly, but I never got any more demand for those, so I moved on.
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Knecht on January 17, 2016, 03:16:10 PM
Not really a tool, just thought I'll show my today's product - wooden snow goggles, for the French&Indian War reenactment.

(http://knecht.novarata.net/?dm=LQFA) (http://knecht.novarata.net/?pm=LQFA)

(http://knecht.novarata.net/?dm=SM3I) (http://knecht.novarata.net/?pm=SM3I)

(http://knecht.novarata.net/?dm=N9II) (http://knecht.novarata.net/?pm=N9II)
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: d3nni5 on January 18, 2016, 03:14:08 PM
Not really a tool, just thought I'll show my today's product - wooden snow goggles, for the French&Indian War reenactment.

(http://knecht.novarata.net/?dm=LQFA) (http://knecht.novarata.net/?pm=LQFA)

(http://knecht.novarata.net/?dm=SM3I) (http://knecht.novarata.net/?pm=SM3I)

(http://knecht.novarata.net/?dm=N9II) (http://knecht.novarata.net/?pm=N9II)

I saw the most recent episode from that show Dual Survival on Discovery channel.   One of the guys had a similar pair of googles.   He had blackend the inside to cut down on the glare.   I have often wondered if a pair of these would be overkill for my BOB.   The other day I was outside cleaning the snow off the drive, came in with a headache from how bright it was.
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Knecht on January 18, 2016, 09:07:17 PM
Well you can always get yellow-tinted ski goggles for that...
But if you wanted this wooden classic, let me know, I'm just carving another for a guy who saw the pics.
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Knecht on January 22, 2016, 05:44:04 PM
I've loaded the dolabra I showed here on ebay, in case someone was interested:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/262254500928?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649
Title: Re: Help me designing new tools for EDC/Survival
Post by: Knecht on April 24, 2017, 08:33:07 PM
I've almost forgot about this thread. Well, guess the "pocket dolabra" I made was made well, because the guy who bought it never complained. But it took half a year before someone noticed it (not even sure on which site, I posted it at several places) and asked if I still had it and if not, whether I can make another. So, looks like the product was made well, but didn't quite catch customers. I've also made a lovely little double bit hatchet later, also with a round eye for easy shaft making. Still have it. But sure, made and sold 15 plain boring tomahawks meanwhile. Guess I'm either not good at designing new survival tools, or my marketing skills suck.