new type of wind turbine

[Roknrandy]

This looks pretty neat if they can get the cost down I'd grab at least one of these.

http://www.earthtronics.com/honeywell.aspx

[Pathfinder]

This looks pretty neat if they can get the cost down I'd grab at least one of these.

http://www.earthtronics.com/honeywell.aspx

Very cool. Not available for another year though. But a good find, something to keep tabs on. I downloaded the FAQs, will be reading them shortly.

[chris]

Down to 2 mph? That's a breakthrough of epic proportions.

[Greenhorn]

I saw this on featured on Beyond Tomorrow.  Looks very cool - picks up wind from any direction without having to make any adjustments.  I'm definitely putting this on my wish list.

http://extremetechnology.blogspot.com/2006/03/sustainable-urban-wind-power.html

[chris]

I saw the Turby on some show, maybe Beyond Tomorrow, but it has the same drawback as many conventional turbines, it isn't effective till it gets above X miles per hour, and X is usually above the average wind speed in most parts of the country. Conventional ones are about 7 mph, and the Turby is about 9 mph. Most of the country doesn't get an average above 7 mph.

[CGFxColoneill]

By practically eliminating mechanical resistance and drag, the Honeywell Wind Turbine creates significant energy (2000 kWh/yr in class 3 Winds)

is that a typo? 2000KWh/ year does not seem like very much

its a cool idea anyhow though

[LdMorgan]

This looks pretty neat if they can get the cost down I'd grab at least one of these.

http://www.earthtronics.com/honeywell.aspx

Yeah--but it's not all really all that hot.

For starters, you can't get more energy out of the wind than the wind has in it. That's fundamental.

A slow wind doesn't have much power in it.

A Class 3 wind has 150 to 200 Watts of power per sq. meter of turbine available. That's all there is, basically.

The Honewell turbine has 2.828 sq. meters of disc, at most, so the absolute maximum it could put out at 100% efficiency is 525.4 Watts continuous, on average, in Class 3 winds.

If it's putting out 2,000 kWhrs per year, it's only putting out 228 Watts continuous--that's not quite enough to fully light up four 60-Watt lightbulbs.

So call it 43% efficient, at best.

The real issue is cost-per-Watt. If it's expensive, it won't fly because people will use the cheapest method per Watt, whatever it is wherever they are.

Efficiency is utterly unimportant.

If you can run something at 2% efficiency and get power for $0.10 per kWhr, that's better than running something else at 99.7% efficiency and getting power for $0.11 per kWhr.

(Of course if you could boost that 2% efficiency, Life Would Be Good!)

I noticed a few of the usual advertising hustles on their website. They kind of dance around direct comparisons with other turbines. "Practically eliminating"  mechanical resistance and drag is pure puffery. All turbines do that. And their turbine cannot create ANY energy--all it can do is capture some--maybe more, maybe less.

Which is also exactly what all other turbines do, too.

[“Mark”]

That looks like a brilliant design, actually. Throw some magnets on the blade tip, run your coils in the casing, and party!

It won't scale up too well (material costs), but on a small scale, that's an awesome way to reduce all the gearing friction. Furthermore, the casing around the blades eliminates the wing tip vortexes, allowing the blades to spin with less resistance, and spin faster. That's pretty damned cool.

At top speed, it's doing about 700 RPM. That's blazing for 3 ft blades. Looks like the limitation is the amount of centrifugal force pulling on the blades (I imagine it's aluminum, and that's gotta be close to aluminum's tensile strength).

[patrat]

Nice innovation, poor investment. At my local utility rates the payback is 50 years, but the design life is 20 years.

You can argue inflating power costs, but you can also argue the return on a traditional investment of similar dollar value to the turbine.

[Steve W]

"Honeywell" has licensed their brand name to this product and it is vaporware.

No units in the field - at least not at the time of a major review a few weeks ago:  http://www.wind-works.org/SmallTurbines/Windtronics760EstimatedGeneration.html

There are no units in use. One turbine has been "tested" in a wind tunnel. Thus, all claims about the product are projecture.

One unit tested in a wind tunnel doesn't make a product, much less a great or even good product.

There is no substantiation to back up the promoter's claims and the claims themselves are exaggerated.
It is unlikely that this 500 W wind turbine will deliver the performance promised in either Michigan or Ontario.

Marketing hype and vaporware, and no field testing.  Even the basic math is questionable.

Where is Myth Busters when you need them?

[mxitman]

The design makes sense to me, I'm an Commercial/Industrial HVAC mechanic and we use turbine fans for building pressurization etc, and last year I had to replace the bearings on one at a building in Seattle. we had it exposed to the rooftop when we were doing this and after we put it back together the thing was spinning it backward from the wind which there really didn't seem to be any of... less than 5mph? The fan diameter was 42" and it really got going fast, too bad I didn't hook my meter up to see what kind of power it was generating. We had to use a 2x4 and pushed on the center of the hub to slow it down enough to stop it by hand.

I never did understand the 3 or 4 blade type wind generator, I'm no mechanical engineer but it to me the more surface area you have to push on the easier it is to turn, just like a sail. If I end up building my own wind generator I plan to incorporate this type of blade design. I also have another style that i have never seen in a wind generator that I think would work really good in areas where you don't have much room... but I'm not telling... that's for another post

[mngardener]

Ace hardware says they will have it in Jan 2010. so next month

http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3800670&kw=wind&origkw=wind&searchId=45680497924

for $6,000

So on average for zone 3 wind it produces 2000 KWh per year. That is about 166 Kw per month ( i know on average not nessicaraly when you need it). Not bad, that would produce most of my energy needs. And i have yet to get very serious about cutting my energy use hard core. If it is worth it might as well get two and make the energy company pay me more often then not.

If it holds up to all their hype is my worry. Can it and does it perform like they say. They "say" it is designed to last 20 years but what is its real world life span. (limited warranty is 5 years) What is the maintenance and cost of replacing some of the more expensive components.

I will let the real world give this baby a test spin first, and look at it again in a year or two while i am cutting my energy use.

[“Mark”]

I never did understand the 3 or 4 blade type wind generator, I'm no mechanical engineer but it to me the more surface area you have to push on the easier it is to turn, just like a sail. If I end up building my own wind generator I plan to incorporate this type of blade design. I also have another style that i have never seen in a wind generator that I think would work really good in areas where you don't have much room... but I'm not telling... that's for another post

The main reasons are likely cost, weight, turbulence, and vibration. For the first two, from what I know, the 3 or 4 blade style uses less material than others. The most torque is generated towards the tips, where the wind energy has greater leverage against the resistance of the generator. If you are aiming to get the maximum energy in a given weight budget, it makes more sense to build fewer, longer blades. You need at least 3 blades to balance against varying wind conditions, such as the wind being stronger at the top of the windmill versus the bottom, otherwise you'd get a forward and backwards oscillation as a blades went through each quarter revolution. Also, if you put the blades too close together, the turbulence from the leading blade will spoil the lift effect that's generated on the following blade (the zip or whoosh noise you hear is actually the air rushing back into the partial vacuum created by the passing blade).

[chris]

I saw several of the Honeywell units at a sustainability show in September. Too expensive, but not vaporware exactly.

[“Mark”]

We can always wait for a bunch of yuppies to buy them, and for them to come down in price. Remember, they do have competition with regular wind turbines, so it will happen when the novelty factor wears off.

[TRguy]

[Andromalius]

How Much?

[AtADeadRun]

A comparable machine discussed in another thread was priced between $6-7k last I looked, not including hookup, tower, etc.

[Andromalius]

Ouch, not exactly cheap, but seems like a very nice product.

[The Grand Pooh-Bah]

For the $ I'm going to try http://www.missouriwindandsolar.com/500w_Low_Wind_Turbines.html

They cost 10% of the Honeywell unit, have a proven track record and 100% made in the USA

[mngardener]

For the $ I'm going to try http://www.missouriwindandsolar.com/500w_Low_Wind_Turbines.html

They cost 10% of the Honeywell unit, have a proven track record and 100% made in the USA

page not found?

[mobilus]

Just navigate from their home page...http://www.missouriwindandsolar.com/

Wild looking thing, for sure!

[AtADeadRun]

...the website kinda hurts my soul.  Spellcheck, anyone?  Pick a font color and stick with it?