299 Days: The Stronghold (Book Four) - book discussion [SPOILER ALERT]

[Smurf Hunter]

You all know the drill. 

[Heavy G]

I heard it's pretty good...

[Chemsoldier]

I heard it's pretty good...

Hearsay!

Enough of this banter you!  Less talkie...more publishy! 

To paraphrase the old lady from the Wendy's commercial, "Where's the book?"

[backwoods_engineer]

Dying here!  Finished Joe Nobody's 3rd "Bishop" novel, and I've STILL got three days days for Heavy G's books!  Grrrr!

[TexDaddy]

Hearsay!...

Not only that, the source is biased. 

[Heavy G]

Please do an Amazon review of Book Four.  Thanks.

[backwoods_engineer]

Got books 3 & 4 on the KINDLE NOW!

Thanks Heavy G!

[MTUCache]

Once again, couldn't keep from devouring these as quickly as possible. Should finish Book 4 this evening...

I am enjoying the story, and it does seem to be developing into a good arc... crisis coming at some point!

Another thing that I'm particularly enjoying though is imagining other parts of the country within the same world. We're getting glimpses into Texas and Seattle, but since there's so many different ways this could play out around the world it's interesting to think about how other parts of the country would be doing. Is that small farming community in Iowa having trouble getting their corn in the ground without gas for their tractors? Have the media been conveniently ignoring the blazing inferno in NYC, or the brutal enforcement of marshal law in Chicago? Have the Mennonites in PA even noticed? What does the suburban wasteland of Arizona look like with AC being spotty and summer right around the corner?

My particular favorite... is there a similar patriot-minded community forming on an island in the Great Lakes, putting up defenses, preparing to be self-sufficient, and meanwhile taking "foraging" expeditions onto the mainland to pick up equipment and supplies left by the panicked masses?

Then again... maybe that's coming in later books. Things are moving so quickly now that while some places are in a complete meltdown others have barely noticed. The sick and elderly may be dying, but we've yet to hear about large-scale starvation setting in anywhere. Pretty scary to be left in the dark with a media you can't trust and no idea what's "really" going on out there.

[Smurf Hunter]

90% done - will finish book 4 today on my commute home.

Snelling

I get he's a self-righteous liberal dick, but Grant almost seems to be bullying him.
When Grant initially shut him down, I supported it.  At subsequent meetings the grange, Grant seems to be antagonizing him for public show.
I don't like this personality flaw with Grant.

pancakes

How are the characters not getting fat eating all those carbs and gluten every day?  I used to ride a bicycle 10 miles every day year round, and was always soft around my mid-section because I ate whatever I wanted to.  I've since gone paleo and lost 20 lbs. with less exercise than I used to do.

mopeds/trucks inside Pierce Point

What are the distances between the sleeping quarters, the grange and the gate?
Why not pedal around on mountain bikes?  I get you've got ARs and heavy load outs, but it wouldn't kill a healthy person to pedal 1-2 miles at a moderate pace, even with 50lbs. of gear.  Seems silly to waste the gas inside the stronghold.

[backwoods_engineer]

Snelling

I get he's a self-righteous liberal dick, but Grant almost seems to be bullying him.
When Grant initially shut him down, I supported it.  At subsequent meetings the grange, Grant seems to be antagonizing him for public show.
I don't like this personality flaw with Grant.

As an amateur writer, it looks to me like Snelling is being used as a literary device, a foil, and those conversations wouldn't proceed exactly as described in real life.  Snelling allows Heavy G to explain Grant's arguments againt normalcy bias, hoplophobia, relying on the non-existent police, and other general grasshopper-type behaviors.  You need a Snelling, or else you get too many pages of preachy screeds.   Working it into a conversation makes the medicine go down easier.

My $0.02.  Heavy G can explain himself, but that's what it looks like to me.

[MTUCache]

Snelling
I get he's a self-righteous liberal dick, but Grant almost seems to be bullying him.
When Grant initially shut him down, I supported it.  At subsequent meetings the grange, Grant seems to be antagonizing him for public show.
I don't like this personality flaw with Grant.

Lol... I thought the same thing. Although, Heavy G did say that we'd see a true character, with both strengths and weaknesses, not some superhero. I don't particularly like seeing this flaw in a leader (or judge), but you can't say that it's not a flaw we don't see in many, many men with any degree of ego and power.

To be perfectly honest, after reading these latest two books, I can't say that I wouldn't be closer to Snelling's mindset than Grant's. Maybe that's a flaw in my own character, being too complacent and unwilling to so quickly resort to "fortressing" up the community. Personally, I don't think I would have willingly gone along with a lot of what Grant and Rich have put into place so far... having the community feed this many people on guard-duty with barely any indication that those guards would be needed seems kind of wasteful. I'm sure we'll see differently in the future, but if I was in that community I would think that he was being awfully paranoid so far. I think I would have been happy with a half-dozen guards at the bridge and a lot less in the way of "community development" at the Grange... again though, that's just my point-of-view (what are we feeding all these guys for again?) 

I do feel like the calendar and time-line of the books got way off track in this last one.... in some ways it's hard to believe that it's been two weeks since the Crisis (not much mention yet of anyones food stores running low, even non-preppers, food trucks without any escorts, etc), and in other ways it seems like part of the story is pulled from things that wouldn't have been put together for months afterward (FC guys getting a reputation for liking girls in Frederickson, the Rebel Radio guys starting back up and establishing some kind of supply-chain for their CDs... not to mention the communication via graffiti)... I have a hard time coming up with a way how things could have moved so quickly in some areas while so slowly in others. I don't doubt that all of them could/would happen eventually, and I can only imagine how hard it would be to put a calendar like this together, but it definitely had me scratching my head. I'm still astounded that this could all be wrapped up in 299 days, even with 260+ left to go... just seems like the chaos is just beginning to unravel.

[Smurf Hunter]

Good thoughts MTU.

The chronology does seem challenging. 

If things went to hell in just a week or two,  the vast majority of people would be inclined to think a recovery might come as quickly.  That would make buy-in for things like military fortifications of Pierce Point difficult.  I also think the time frame of creating and deploying the FC people seems far fetched.

The biggest prepping lessons I've taken from this series so far:

1) economics - not just bartering, but how to establish agreements for distribution of resources
2) transportation - some people think my affection for riding and wrenching on old bicycles is eccentric, but I'll be a big shot if the gas runs out
3) fire arms - I'd rather have 4 competent dudes with deer rifles than 20 idiot mall ninjas
4) politics - as in the "Real" world, trade is a big motivator for cooperation.  This requires creativity and dynamic thinking.

[backwoods_engineer]

"The Team" == " 20 idiot mall ninjas", smurfhunter?

They didn't come off that way to me.  They're sheepdogs, in the Nutnfancy sense.

I do agree the timeline seems a bit accelerated, but then again, that charge has been leveled against every other piece of prepper fiction, starting with "Patriots" by Rawles.

[Smurf Hunter]

"The Team" == " 20 idiot mall ninjas", smurfhunter?

They didn't come off that way to me.  They're sheepdogs, in the Nutnfancy sense.

I do agree the timeline seems a bit accelerated, but then again, that charge has been leveled against every other piece of prepper fiction, starting with "Patriots" by Rawles.

Whoa - I wasn't referring to "the team".

To my count, the only shooting in book four was granny capping the to FC dudes with her .22 target pistol.  I still have a couple chapters to go in book 4, but it doesn't look like Pierce Point will blow threw all their 5.56 in an epic battle against an army of zombie socialists led by Diane Feinstein.

My point is there's no need for the "paras" - at least no need at this point in the book.  To a degree it may be a deterrent.

Last critique from me for the day:

Why is HAM radio considered secure?  I'm not a HAM, but occasionally listen to HAM using my Uniden scanner that cost around $100 from Amazon.  As I understand it, encryption is not permitted over HAM.  The frequencies may be less common compared to CB, but I'm not fulling understanding how it's more appropriate for OP-SEC sensitive comms.

[hanzel]

Why is HAM radio considered secure?  I'm not a HAM, but occasionally listen to HAM using my Uniden scanner that cost around $100 from Amazon.  As I understand it, encryption is not permitted over HAM.  The frequencies may be less common compared to CB, but I'm not fulling understanding how it's more appropriate for OP-SEC sensitive comms.

I think you answered your own question.  Fewer people have Ham radios, even the receiver only scanners vs a CB radio which are very common.  Its not considered "secure" its just more "secure" then other options.

[Heavy G]

Why is HAM radio considered secure?  I'm not a HAM, but occasionally listen to HAM using my Uniden scanner that cost around $100 from Amazon.  As I understand it, encryption is not permitted over HAM.  The frequencies may be less common compared to CB, but I'm not fulling understanding how it's more appropriate for OP-SEC sensitive comms.

A good question.  Ham frequencies are harder for the common person to listen to; CB is more common.  And there's far more ham frequencies to monitor.

I didn't put any encryption into the story because, in the spirit of keeping things real, I don't think normal people have encryption.

However, there will be lots of encrypted communications in the future books... just not the kind of encryption you're thinking of.  *evil laughter*  You'll love the encryption method.  It's totally real and believable.  I'll give you a hint: quadra.  That's all I'll say.  It'll make sense in about Book Seven. 

[backwoods_engineer]

To my count, the only shooting in book four was granny capping the to FC dudes with her .22 target pistol.

Wasn't that sweet?  I was cheering granny!

[Smurf Hunter]

Wasn't that sweet?  I was cheering granny!

Indeed.  I was a "having a day" yesterday, and in hindsight my posts came off grumpy.  Sorry if feathers got ruffled.

The ability of granny to take down two tangos with a .22 target gun demonstrates how successful insurgencies can happen. 

[Heavy G]

The ability of granny to take down two tangos with a .22 target gun demonstrates how successful insurgencies can happen.

I understand why you're calling them "tangos" (phonetic alphabet for "T"; "terrorists"). But by about Book Five you'll be calling them "Limas."  You'll see why *evil laughter*

I hope "Lima down" becomes a Patriot slang phrase.  *more evil laughter*

[Smurf Hunter]

I understand why you're calling them "tangos" (phonetic alphabet for "T"; "terrorists"). But by about Book Five you'll be calling them "Limas."  You'll see why *evil laughter*

I hope "Lima down" becomes a Patriot slang phrase.  *more evil laughter*

I got this one.

Lima = "L" as in Loyalist

BTW:  Since HG or his publisher couldn't be bothered to release any more books this week (sarcasm), I started reading Paul Revere's Ride (http://www.amazon.com/Paul-Reveres-David-Hackett-Fischer/dp/0195098315/).  I'd heard about it at an Appleseed shoot a few years back, but never got around to reading it.

I won't digress too much from this thread, but there are some important truths about resisting tyranny I've learned just reading 10% of that book.

• The whigs (sons of liberty, et al) did not want a revolution.  Largely they wanted to be left alone.  They were generally cool with traditional English common law.
• The mindset of the whigs was not individual liberty and collective responsibility, rather the opposite: collective liberty and individual responsibility.
• Gen. Gage was just, moral and stuck to the letter of the law, and permitted many rebellious activities, ultimately at his own peril
• The (imperial) government was not as antagonistic as we like to think.
• It took many years before "Americans" didn't consider themselves as "English" - much less "us versus them" as we may think

I bring all this up, because history DOES repeat itself.  However we will never be so lucky to have an adversary with the high moral character of Thomas Gage.
Today our antagonists perform warrant-less searches, detentions without trial, drone strikes, etc. 

[Hootie]

I just started book 4 today, but i got to ask...

when are books 5 and 6 going to be available?

[thefuzz1290]

Not soon enough. I finished book 1 in 2 days (a plane ride to and from TX), book 2 in 1 d day, book 3 the next day, and book 4 the next.

[Heavy G]

when are books 5 and 6 going to be available?

Mid-February, 2013.  I sent the books to the publisher about two weeks ago.  It takes a couple months to edit and format them.

[otowner98]

Glen, book four was great - nice cliffhanger there, too.  I am anxiously awaiting books 5 & 6, and all the rest.  Thank you for doing all of this.  You have really kicked me back into high gear in a way I haven't been since I was new to TSP 4 years ago.

Were winners ever announced for the signed copies contest from October?  I'm way behind on the Podcast, so apologies if has already been announced.

[Heavy G]

You have really kicked me back into high gear in a way I haven't been since I was new to TSP 4 years ago.

Awesome!  That's what I love to hear.  It's why I did this.

Were winners ever announced for the signed copies contest from October?  I'm way behind on the Podcast, so apologies if has already been announced.

Yep.  The winners were notified on October 31 or maybe November 1 and the books have been mailed out.

[NWPilgrim]

As with Books 1 & 2, this next installment again feel more real than reality.  That is, today's world seems surreal because we have overspent so grossly and our politicians so blatantly steal from us, yet most of the world just blithely go about each day as if nothing is wrong.  The 299 books are what should be happening, or eventually will happen.  Those consequences and events are what is real, not this sugar coated ball of goat crap we consume.

I agree though with questioning the overwhelming support by the community of dozens of guards and a full time security Team when there has been virtually zero direct threat to the community yet.  Just feeding that many mouths would be a serious burden on a community where only a fraction did prepping, I am not sure I would be jumping on the bandwagon to provide for so many guards and a dedicated team so soon and without indications of very large threats. I grew up in a rural area and most people would be fairly confident in their own family's ability to provide their own security.  They might support a few guys doing shifts of two men at a time at the gate, but I kind of doubt a the diverse opinions of a few hundred residents is going to gel around the idea of so many security people easting free and using their gas.

From what I understand of the book series the Community is a launch pad for a Patriot movement and political force, so for the story line it is necessary to form this up and have it underway when bigger events evolve.  But in reality I think it would be a lot slower and messier.  There would be many more divisions of opinion and more "opt outs" until something happened to demonstrate two gate guards and personal guns were not enough to handle the supposed growing threat.  If there is so much violence in Olympia and Shel..Frederickson, then it would not be surprising for at least some roving looters to try the homes of Pierce Point and that would be motivation to form up better.  But with no violence at all against the Point it does not seem urgent two weeks into the collapse (sorry Jason, "Crisis") to be deploying a large security force.

I think in a real even, most effort is going to e going into helping ensure neighbors have enough firewood to stay warm, gather as much food and work gardens as possible, and perhaps a lively bartering at the Grange in greater measure than meetings every night.

Another thing I like is that it is not a total collapse of civilization and end of rule of law.  This version of collapse still has the government functioning to a degree and as usual they are more focused on getting and keeping power over citizens than actually doing anything meaningful.  And the power is still on at least some of the time, and cities are favored over rural.  Rifles are carried but alsways with consideration to the circumstance and location. This is a much more likely scenario than total collapse and everyone running around in cammies and full combat gear everyday.

While I really like the books, I am questioning whether I am going to keep spending $10 on each one for the next 6 books.  That is pretty steep.  Great story so far but not sure I am willing to pay $100 for it. At $3-$4/book I would be all in for the series.

[backwoods_engineer]

I on the other hand will gladly pay Heavy G's price.  There is more to that price than the value of the book alone; there is patronage of an author who is "one of us," and I want to see him do more books in the future.

[Smurf Hunter]

I on the other hand will gladly pay Heavy G's price.  There is more to that price than the value of the book alone; there is patronage of an author who is "one of us," and I want to see him do more books in the future.

I'm of the same feeling there and want to personally support HG's work and its greater mission.

When you figure that most every kindle book costs $9.99, each book in 299 series has to complete with best seller novels, classics and other more popular titles.
If I wasn't a TSPer, didn't know of "Glen Tate", but wanted a quasi-collapse/dystopian political thriller, something like Matthew Bracken's "Enemies" trilogy is a safer bet. (I've read it, and highly recommend it).

Also, there are many up and coming authors in the dystopian genre who regularly sell there titles for a few dollars, or even free.  I read many of those, not because I'm cheap, but I read frequently on my long bus ride into work, and simply go through a lot of reading material on my kindle.  These sorts of titles are hit or miss.  Most have bad editing, or awkward prose.  For the few gems I find, I post a solid review and hope the author is encouraged.

Speaking of amazon reviews - we need to do a better job.  I've referred the 299 series to non-prepper friends, and I got feedback that the reviews all appeared to be posted by personal friends or fans of the author.  Unfortunately our community support is a little too transparent for some critical shoppers.  Maybe we can find a way be objective in my written comments, while still offering a high star rating.

[PrepperJim]

Ack! My wife had a Lisa moment today which I posted over in the Flip that Spouse thread.

Why oh why must it be three steps forward and two back? It will be rocky times in the PrepperJim household for awhile. I'll just keep telling myself, "be the G". :-)

[Heavy G]

At $3-$4/book I would be all in for the series.

You have no idea what it costs to produce a book and sell it.