Author Topic: A new method of extracting hydrogen from water more efficiently  (Read 2085 times)

Offline iam4liberty

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A new method of extracting hydrogen from water more efficiently
« on: October 29, 2019, 12:32:02 PM »
This is starting to look promising. If they can double the efficiency it will be a commercial technology overnight. So this is getting real close.

Finding a strong catalyst for hydrogen separation would be a game changer.  Forget the renewable mumbo-jumbo.  What is important is the ability to take any electric stream and create a storable fuel.  imagine electric vehicles without the weight and expense of batteries and refueling times similar to gasoline vehicles. But there are dangers.  For example, there is a design for a new generation nuclear aircraft carrier capable of creating enough hydrogen to fuel a drone fleet larger than all the current airforces around the world combined. 

But for preppers, it could mean off-grid houses with no disadvantages.

https://phys.org/news/2019-10-method-hydrogen-efficiently-capture-renewable.amp
A new method of extracting hydrogen from water more efficiently to capture renewable energy

The team's research focused on finding a more efficient way to produce hydrogen through the electrocatalytic water splitting reaction. They discovered that electrodes covered with a molybedenum telluride catalyst showed an increase in the amount of hydrogen gas produced during the electrolysis when a specific pattern of high-current pulses was applied. By optimising the pulses of current through the acidic electrolyte, they could reduce the amount of energy needed to make a given amount of hydrogen by nearly 50%.

Offline armymars

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Re: A new method of extracting hydrogen from water more efficiently
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2019, 04:56:12 PM »
WOW!

Offline IKN

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Re: A new method of extracting hydrogen from water more efficiently
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2019, 06:16:20 PM »
Yes, very interesting indeed.
It seems that there have been great strides lately in both hydrogen production via electrolysis as well as ammonia creation direct from water and air.
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/07/ammonia-renewable-fuel-made-sun-air-and-water-could-power-globe-without-carbon

I wonder if the new catalyst would improve the ability to crack ammonia back into hydrogen and nitrogen ?
Combine efficient hydrogen production with the ability to easily store and transport it in the form of ammonia using renewable energy sources. Then all we'd need is either an internal or external combustion engine fueled by hydrogen or a cheaper catalyst for use in a PEM for electricity generation to run electric vehicles.

I've always thought a hydrogen based energy economy was the ideal way to go for a cheap, non-polluting, renewable and almost endless energy source. It appears that day may come and soon.
We can only hope big oil and the powers that be don't bury it so people can't make their own and not have to rely on big corporations.

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: A new method of extracting hydrogen from water more efficiently
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2019, 06:58:17 PM »
I've always thought a hydrogen based energy economy was the ideal way to go for a cheap, non-polluting, renewable and almost endless energy source. It appears that day may come and soon.

Yep.

Plus it looks like we can pull out the Molly-B-Damned jokes.


Offline DDJ

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Re: A new method of extracting hydrogen from water more efficiently
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2019, 11:08:01 AM »
I get Hydrogen is a great energy source.  How is it renewable though?  Once it is burnt it is burnt.  There is plenty of Hydrogen in the sea so it is abundant.  It is in almost everything else I think as the most combined element.  We would be consuming it for a long time before we would use it up I am sure.  I would love to see it as an energy source so cheep it would not grow on trees but fall from the sky. 

I am not sure I would trust Hydrogen powered cars.  I do not like seeing the truck in front of me carrying "hydrogen refrigerated liquid" (I assume that is liquid hydrogen not as I first assumed "something so dangerous they had to move it in a bomb").  We see car fires all the time gas burns and explodes but compared to hydrogen... if the car carries water and turns it into Hydrogen there is still hydrogen in an explosive form between the converter and the burner (cylinder I assume).  My opinion is still out but on the fence.

The same opinion for a home unit.  There are more home fires than car fires. 

Offline Fixit

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Re: A new method of extracting hydrogen from water more efficiently
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2019, 11:45:05 AM »
DDj  when you burn hydrogen you get water.

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: A new method of extracting hydrogen from water more efficiently
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2019, 12:12:55 PM »
There are no cylinders or explosions.  They use hydrogen fuel cells to directly create electricity.  Maybe this will help explain it: https://youtu.be/9hZBv-o4bl0

Fuel cells and hydrogen storage are very safe.  You can even use the small ones in air travel.  There are other threads on the forum on this topic.

« Last Edit: October 31, 2019, 12:18:53 PM by iam4liberty »

Offline Mr. Bill

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Re: A new method of extracting hydrogen from water more efficiently
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2019, 04:14:33 PM »
I get Hydrogen is a great energy source.  How is it renewable though?  Once it is burnt it is burnt.

It's not exactly renewable, it's just a way to store energy where the waste product (water) is harmless and reusable.

Many decades ago, my wife's Chemical Engineering master's thesis was on storage of hydrogen in the form of metal hydrides.  I'm sure a lot of progress has been made since then, but I'm not up-to-date.  But hydrogen is tricky stuff to work with.  If it burns, the flame is almost invisible.  It can soak into many metals and make them brittle.  I'm definitely looking forward to the day when all the technical problems are solved.

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: A new method of extracting hydrogen from water more efficiently
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2019, 07:19:48 PM »
The current technology is reinforced carbon fiber high pressure tanks.  They give about a 350 mile range between refills.  Compressors have plummeted in price and size so no longer an issue.  Absorbent technology is not viewed as needed now but definitely would be a nice to have in the future.

The main hurdle to broad adoption is price of hydrogen.  By traditional hydrogen production techniques using current price electric, it is equivalent to $5 to $6 a gallon gas.  If that can be halved, use will skyrocket overnight.  If the above research works out we are half way there. 

Offline IKN

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Re: A new method of extracting hydrogen from water more efficiently
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2019, 09:11:21 AM »
Many good points both good and bad about hydrogen.
The reason for the current high production cost of hydrogen is the method and material (natural gas) it is made along with the need to compress it and store it as high pressure gas or compress and refrigerate it to condense it into a liquid. As a liquid, it takes even more energy to keep it that way and is the current best form for transportation.
Metal hydride storage currently works for small scale. Nickel metal hydride batteries use hydrogen in this way, but I like the research coming out of Australia with direct conversion of air and water to ammonia for storing hydrogen. Ammonia has a higher energy density per unit volume for hydrogen storage, safer and easier to store long term, easily transported, doesn't readily ignite and burn, very minimal explosive hazard, and biodegradable.
I don't mean to cast dispersions, but I don't understand the fears people still have with hydrogen. Yes, it can explode, but so can gasoline under the right conditions. Unlike gasoline, hydrogen is lighter than air so any leak rapidly rises into the air and dissipates mostly combining with oxygen from the air to reform water unless the leak is contained so concentrations can build.

On the "Renewable" subject, FIXIT is correct. Think of hydrogen more as a battery for storing energy, Water + electricity = H2 & O2. On the reverse, Hydrogen + Oxygen = Water & energy. The energy released can be either in the form of heat when burned or some heat and electrons such as in a fuel cell. There are loses every time you convert one energy form to another and hydrogen is no exception. The trick to making it a more favorable source is to minimize the loses and cost of production. Even gas and diesel have loses. First they have to find a source of crude oil. drill the well, pump the oil, transport the oil, refine the oil, and then transport it to the end user. All of this takes time, money, and energy.

Call me a "Tin Foil Hatter", but does anyone really believe that any information from big money industry or governments concerning the ability to create, store, and use hydrogen as a fuel source cutting out all the middle men is forthcoming ? Just think of the big business income and government tax loss that would result if people had the ability to easily create and use their own fuel for energy.
Water, wind and/or sunlight are all still plentiful and free. All it takes is a cheap, easy, and safe way for people to convert it to hydrogen and/or ammonia for use to heat their homes, make their own electricity, fuel their vehicles, and cook their food.
Unless some individual were to invent the method and release it to the public, the only way we would convert to a hydrogen economy would be if a method used was still beyond the average persons ability to do themselves or if it became the only viable source as oil and gas supplies ran dry necessitating a transition with no other options.


Offline iam4liberty

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Re: A new method of extracting hydrogen from water more efficiently
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2019, 09:39:24 AM »
Hydrogen for auto fuel is already taxed at the federal level and in over half of states.  It is calculated via a "gasoline equivalent" methodology.  If you make it at home, the law requires that the tax be paid just like with biofuels.  The taxman isnt going to allow an easy way out.

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: A new method of extracting hydrogen from water more efficiently
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2019, 04:51:50 PM »
Meanwhile, politicians continue to throw millions of dollars at 'free energy' environmental quacks.

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/os-bz-joi-scientific-canada-20191031-q63qgwkjpfespdbzqtizr5jyve-story.html
Joi Scientific’s hydrogen from seawater technology isn’t working as described, report says

Joi Scientific, a Space Coast startup attempting to make hydrogen from seawater to generate electricity, has told shareholders that its technology doesn’t work as had been described
...
CBC News reported that a public utility called NB Power in New Brunswick paid Joi Scientific $13 million in Canadian dollars to license a technology that claims to be able to efficiently generate hydrogen from seawater to generate electricity.
...


Of the payment, $6.7 million came from taxpayers, according to CBC, a division of the Canadian Broadcasting Company.

One of the company’s patents says it can generate hydrogen at 200% efficiency. That means for each watt of input energy, the patent says two watts of hydrogen gas energy is produced.

Offline Mr. Bill

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Re: A new method of extracting hydrogen from water more efficiently
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2019, 10:51:59 PM »
Joi Scientific’s hydrogen from seawater technology isn’t working as described, report says

 :rofl:

Oh my gosh, that's amazing.  Really worth reading the CBC article (and some of their previous articles -- they've been following this silliness since March).

Joi Scientific technology NB Power poured millions into doesn't work

Someone at NB Power is very, very gullible.