Author Topic: The George Floyd riots in Mpls  (Read 5847 times)

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: The George Floyd riots in Mpls
« Reply #330 on: August 24, 2020, 05:16:39 PM »
Might I point out that both Mayor Lightfoot (Chicago) and Mayor Durkin (Seattle) have allowed violent riots in their cities but both chose to use the police to protect their houses?

It warms my little black anarchist heart to see politicians behave like... politicians.

Thery are relative amateurs compared to de Blasio in New York.  Besides his tax payer funded, personal 2 dozen strong entourage, he took another 27 police officers off violence prevention detail to guard 24/7 the"Black Lives Matter" words illegally painted on the street in front of Trump Tower.  Talk about TDS.  That man done lost his mind.

https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/as-crime-in-new-york-including-murders-skyrocket-de-blasio-has-27-officers-a-day-guarding-black-lives-matter-mural/
As crime and murders skyrocket in NYC, mayor has 27 officers a day guarding Black Lives Matter “mural”

NEW YORK, NY – You’ve really got to hand it to New York Mayor Bill de Blasio. As violent crime goes out of control in the Big Apple, de Blasio, or as radio talk show host Mark Levin calls him, “de Commie-o,” at least has his “priorities” straight.

He has directed that 27 police officers daily be assigned to protect the Black Lives Matter “mural” outside of Trump Tower.

Mural or graffiti? We’ll let you decide.

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: The George Floyd riots in Mpls
« Reply #331 on: August 26, 2020, 05:52:07 PM »
The simple narrative driving the riots are failing.  These situations were much more complicated than media portrayed.

https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/court-filings-medical-examiner-thought-george-floyd-had-fatal-level-of-fentanyl-in-system
Court filings: Medical examiner thought George Floyd had 'fatal level' of fentanyl in system

The autopsy revealed no physical evidence suggesting that Mr. Floyd died of asphyxiation.” Baker told the attorney his investigation was incomplete pending a toxicology report, however.

The other memorandum filed June 1 by the Attorney’s Office indicated Baker said Floyd’s level of fentanyl was “pretty high,” and a potentially “fatal level.

"[Dr. Andrew Baker] said that if Mr. Floyd had been found dead in his home (or anywhere else) and there were no other contributing factors he would conclude that it was an overdose death,” the June 1 memo said.



https://madison365.com/kenohsa-police-opened-fire-less-than-5-minutes-after-being-called-scanner-audio/
Kenosha police opened fire less than 5 minutes after being called: scanner audio

According to the audio obtained by Madison365, someone called police to report that Blake was at her home and wasn’t supposed to be, and that he had taken her keys and was refusing to give them back. A dispatcher relayed this message to patrol officers at about 5:11 pm Sunday.

About 30 seconds later, she let patrol officers know that there was “an alert at this address for a 99 for this subject,” apparently to indicate that a warrant had been issued for Blake’s arrest. Court records indicate a warrant was issued on three charges — two misdemeanors and one G-class felony — on July 7.
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About a minute after the initial call, the dispatcher indicated that Blake was leaving the premises, and that the woman who had initially called had hung up.

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: The George Floyd riots in Mpls
« Reply #332 on: August 26, 2020, 07:49:40 PM »
https://www.foxnews.com/us/blake-had-knife-in-car-when-kenosha-cop-shot-him-wisconsin-doj.amp
Blake had knife in car when Kenosha cop shot him

Jacob Blake had a knife on the floorboard of his car when he was shot by police
...
officers responded to a domestic dispute after a woman reported her boyfriend was unlawfully on the premises. Officers attempted to arrest Blake and a Taser was used, but it did not subdue him.

As Blake walked around to the driver's side of the SUV, he opened the door and leaned forward into the vehicle. Sheskey held onto Blake's shirt and fired seven times, striking him in the back

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: The George Floyd riots in Mpls
« Reply #333 on: August 27, 2020, 07:14:23 AM »
What a clown.

https://www.kgw.com/amp/article/news/local/protests/portland-mayor-ted-wheeler-discuss-protests-violence/283-a865cfe8-60ad-4628-a730-a023cc2c9d5e
Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler calls on community effort to ‘rise up’ to end violence, restart economy

Wheeler said he hasn’t focused enough on what he called the two most important issues facing Portland: ending the nightly violence and the city's economic recovery.
...
Wheeler was mostly silent over the last week as protests, riots and violence continued on a nightly basis. In Wednesday's news conference, he asked for the city’s help to "rise up" with a collective voice.

“We have allowed our proud tradition of progressive protests to be stolen by a few dozen individuals engaged in violence and criminal destruction,” Wheeler said. “That’s a line we can’t allow our community to cross. Not anymore. Enough is enough. It’s time to rise up and take immediate steps to repair and beautify our city. But I need the help of the entire community.”
. ...
The mayor didn’t have specifics Wednesday, saying details about his plan would be released in the coming days.

Wheeler, who is also the police commissioner, plans to meet with the Portland Police Bureau (PPB) Wednesday night. He said two goals are to determine if PPB needs more resources to help bring an end to the violence
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Lovell told Wheeler police didn’t have enough personnel on hand to make targeted arrests
..
Wheeler plans to meet with business leaders on Thursday to discuss what can be done to assure them the downtown area is safe and welcoming to customers.

Offline Greekman

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Re: The George Floyd riots in Mpls
« Reply #334 on: August 27, 2020, 12:01:27 PM »
one more step to a mob tyranny?

BLM mob forces DC restaurant patrons to raise fists in ‘black power’ salute
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prmL14ERKkQ

Offline David in MN

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Re: The George Floyd riots in Mpls
« Reply #335 on: August 27, 2020, 03:43:24 PM »
And Minneapolis burned again after a man committed suicide.

https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2020/08/27/widespread-looting-leaves-downtown-minneapolis-shattered-mayor-says-more-destruction-will-not-be-tolerated/

Nicollet isn't really a road. Only buses are allowed on it and it boasts heavy pedestrian traffic at very spendy places. The damaged IDS tower is the biggest building in the state.

Always kind of wondered what a firsthand view of a failed city would look like.

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: The George Floyd riots in Mpls
« Reply #336 on: August 27, 2020, 06:05:17 PM »
So sad that Seattle mayor and prosecutor still refuse to take action and have the murderers charged and prosecuted.  Those antifa thugs are still out there.  Hopefully the civil case will help motivate them to finally act.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/father-of-seattle-chaz-chop-shooting-victim-files-3b-claims-against-seattle-king-county-and-the-state-of-washington-301119783.html
Father Of Seattle "CHAZ-CHOP" Shooting Victim Files $3B Claims Against Seattle, King County And The State Of Washington

Horace Anderson- father of Lorenzo Anderson -- the special needs teenager murdered on June 20, 2020 amid the lawlessness that occurred within Seattle's seven-block zone known as "CHOP/CHAZ" – has filed 3 separate $1 billion claims against the City of Seattle, the County of King and the State of Washington.  It is by far the largest claim filed in connection to the government's failure to protect its citizens amid the CHOP/CHAZ fiasco. Additional documentation for the claims can be seen here.
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the actions and inactions by the City of Seattle, County of King and State of Washington are directly responsible for creating a hazardous, and lawless situation that resulted in the shooting death of his son.
...
"This case warrants punitive or exemplary damages in order to punish the City of Seattle, County of King, the State of Washington and their agents for their outrageous conduct that allowed lawlessness to reign. Such failure to protect citizens must not be allowed to happen again." 

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: The George Floyd riots in Mpls
« Reply #337 on: August 27, 2020, 11:52:29 PM »
This is the right call.  You have to stop rewarding the looters.

https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2020/08/27/its-just-not-worth-it-anymore-for-some-minneapolis-businesses-wednesdays-riots-were-the-last-straw/amp/
‘It’s Just Not Worth It Anymore’: For Many Minneapolis Businesses, Wednesday’s Riots Were The Last Straw

Even before last nights destruction and looting, a number of downtown businesses had been re-thinking their future in the city. WCCO spoke with some of them today about the damage they endured and their futures moving forward.

One of those businesses is Dahl Medical Supply, located at 12th and Nicollet. They’ve been downtown for about 12 years, but after last night, they don’t plan to stick around another day.

“You feel so hopeless and helpless. I have to get there. I have to defend,” Lisa Steffes said.

That helpless feeling grew throughout Wednesday night, as Steffes watched surveillance video of looters ransacking her store.

“We had several windows broken. And we had a lot of looting,” Steffes said. “They stole things. They stole all of our computers and technology.”

For her and her family, it was the last straw. On Thursday morning, they parked a moving van in front of the store and began loading up the merchandise the thieves didn’t take.

“This was it for us. It really, really was. We are a family-owned business,” Steffes said. “It’s just not worth it anymore being downtown. And we all grew up working downtown.”
...

Offline David in MN

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Re: The George Floyd riots in Mpls
« Reply #338 on: August 28, 2020, 05:36:24 AM »
Extra bad for Minneapolis businesses. The city has a policy that businesses are not permitted to put up external shutters. The policy, put in in (if memory serves) 2004 states that shutters are unsightly and lend to an unsafe feeling about the community.

So Minneapolis policy is that you won't get police protection, you basically can't defend yourself, and you can't even protect your windows on your existing business. Sounds great.

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: The George Floyd riots in Mpls
« Reply #339 on: August 28, 2020, 07:18:51 AM »
The Biden campaign and DNC have reporredly stepped up their use of ANTIFA.

https://www.salon.com/2020/08/22/democrats-have-a-plan-to-disrupt-trumps-convention-and-cripple-his-message-report_partner/
Democrats have a plan to disrupt Trump’s convention and cripple his message: report
Democratic strategists plan to do everything they can to disrupt the Republican National convention


Tom Perez, the chairman of the Democratic Party, explained the strategy saying, "Whereas our themes, our unity and our speakers exude optimism and hope in the face of so many challenges, the Republican convention next week will be marked by chaos, chaos, chaos."


https://www.foxnews.com/politics/sen-rand-paul-thanks-dc-cops-for-saving-him-from-crazed-mob-after-rnc.amp
Sen. Rand Paul thanks DC cops for saving him from 'crazed mob' after RNC
"Just got attacked by an angry mob of over 100, one block away from the White House," Paul tweeted


Video on social media appeared to show a crowd chasing and jeering Paul, who was escorted by D.C. police as he returned to his hotel. An officer was captured on video being shoved by a protester and was nearly knocked over. Paul appeared to help steady the officer.

Police formed a wall around Paul and his wife, Kelley Paul as protesters chanted, "Breonna Taylor" and "no justice, no peace!"
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Videos emerged on social media that appeared to show city police clashing with protesters who called them names like "pig." There were unconfirmed reports of arrests
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Video emerged that claimed to show a bus carrying RNC attendees being targeted by protesters, some of whom jumped on and tried to gain entry. Others appeared to try and prevent the bus from backing up.
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Video posted by the Daily Caller purportedly showed protesters hurling expletives at attendees leaving Trump's speech. Police officers appeared to provide security for the guests.
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Agitators also chased out a cameraman from the area near the White House. They threatened to beat him up and destroy his camera.
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A guillotine has been put in front of the fencing near the White House.
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An elderly couple was confronted as they crossed the street by at least one protester who screamed at them while making an obscene gesture, according to a video.

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: The George Floyd riots in Mpls
« Reply #340 on: August 28, 2020, 11:18:16 AM »
He made a huge tactical error thinking they could outrace the mob from the Kamala Harris rally.  She had them whipped up to the point of bloodthirstiness. 

https://youtu.be/OFDx5qTlGjU
Rand Paul recounts being surrounded by protesters after he left the RNC

Offline David in MN

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Re: The George Floyd riots in Mpls
« Reply #341 on: August 29, 2020, 02:03:47 PM »
So suppose I'm in the jury for one of the officers involved in George Floyd's death. And I could be as a Hennepin County resident. I walk into that courtroom knowing if I don't toe the line with Keith Ellison's really bad murder 2 charges I will get to see Minneapolis burn once again and have rioters seeking my house. My life would be forfeit.

Offline LvsChant

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Re: The George Floyd riots in Mpls
« Reply #342 on: August 30, 2020, 11:08:51 AM »
So suppose I'm in the jury for one of the officers involved in George Floyd's death. And I could be as a Hennepin County resident. I walk into that courtroom knowing if I don't toe the line with Keith Ellison's really bad murder 2 charges I will get to see Minneapolis burn once again and have rioters seeking my house. My life would be forfeit.

Has it really come to that? That is a truly horrible thought... when it is actually risking your own and your family's safety to simply act as a normal citizen.

Offline Docwatmo

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Re: The George Floyd riots in Mpls
« Reply #343 on: August 30, 2020, 12:33:30 PM »
This is the highest form of evil.  When this occurs, and it will.  Civil war will come.  And it will be bad.  fortunately, the vast majority don"t follow the left/right paradigm and just want to be left alone.  And when that juggernaut starts to roll, the terrorists will finally understand the beast they have unleashed.  And it will be bad. 

Offline David in MN

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Re: The George Floyd riots in Mpls
« Reply #344 on: August 31, 2020, 10:20:28 AM »
Here's a take from the owner of Brit's Pub which was looted and burned.

https://wccoradio.radio.com/articles/feature-article/owner-of-brits-pub-says-downtown-isnt-safe-for-business

Brit's is kind of a Minneapolis institution. It's a little over-the-top in its Britishy stuff but the food is good, they serve real English beer, and in the warm months they host English lawn bowling on the back roof. It wouldn't be my first choice in a bar (Psycho Suzi's) but I've been many times, particularly because my work mentor was Jamaican and he loved the English culture. Also kind of a niche hang for non-Americans because they only play international sports so when you're there you watch soccer and rugby.

It's rather telling that the owner speaks candidly that not only is Minneapolis unsafe for business but that the patrons have ceased wanting to be downtown. Chilling that 911 calls are being told to wait.

I'll add that I think the press is being very disingenuous about what's happening. When they say Nicollet burned, that's the priciest real estate in the city. When they say "a fire broke out" (one can only assume spontaneous combustion) in Dinkytown that's the university. When a resident hears this stuff it's not like hearing about the rough spots in the city you should avoid. We hear that we're not safe anywhere.

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: The George Floyd riots in Mpls
« Reply #345 on: August 31, 2020, 05:49:33 PM »
Remember that "innocent, peaceful" BLM protester whose federal arrest was the impetus for the violent riots in Wisconsin?  It resulted in statues torn done, businesses looted/burned, and even a state senator beaten.  We are now learning the truth.

He was top BLM "muscle" sent into Wisconsin with his team to extort businesses.  He and his team would go to those businesses that claim to support BLM to avoid trouble (that is, trying to be "grey").  Here is how one business owner described their approach:

The owner told him that he supports the Black Lives Matter movement to which Johnson replied, according to court documents, “What have you done locally?” He said he'd start breaking windows if he didn't get money and accused the owner and his employees of being members of the Ku Klux Klan. The owner told police he was afraid protesters would target his business because he didn't give Johnson what he wanted.

Johnson allegedly returned twice to the tavern on Tuesday, at one point joined by two other men. He shouted allegations of racism through a megaphone and swung a bat, according to the affidavit. One of the men had a bat with “Black Lives Matter” written on it.

“Just give us some free food and beer and we can end this now,” Johnson said, according to the affidavit. “You don't want 600 people to come here and destroy your business and burn it down. The cops are on our side. You notice that when you call them, nothing happens to us.”


This type of extortion went on for weeks with many businesses.  It only ended when he attacked a mother and her children with a baseball back for the crime of praying a rosary in the park.

The whole mess started when Johnson, a felon on probation, allegedly accosted a suburban Dane County Catholic mother of four as she prayed the Rosary with her children on the western corner of the Capitol Square. “He had the bat over his shoulder and then it slung down. I just knew he was going to get us,” said the woman, who asked not to be identified by name for fear of reprisal. “He was yelling that he knew I was rich because I was a … b*tch. It had nothing to do with skin. He didn’t yell anything about skin (color). He yelled about praying, he yelled that I was fat, that I was rich. It was crazy.”
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The woman said Johnson yelled something along the lines of “don’t think your God’s going to save you”


Police said Johnson then accosted patrons on the patio of The Cooper Tavern, 20 W. Mifflin St. Video released by the Madison Police Department shows a young black man with a bat and bullhorn follow a white man into the tavern, shouting that the white man was a racist. Inside the establishment, the man identified as Johnson shouted into the bullhorn about religion and how the Civil War was fought “to see who gonna control the ni**ers.”

We’re going to talk about this Jesus guy,” the man yelled while looking directly at someone filming the incident. “Jesus was not a white man with blond hair, blue eyes and pink lips.” That was an apparent reference to prominent Black Lives Matter activist Shaun King, who said earlier this week that artistic depictions of Christ as a white man should be torn down.


Background articles:

https://freebeacon.com/latest-news/wisconsin-dem-lawmaker-brutally-beaten-by-protesters/
Wisconsin Dem Lawmaker Brutally Beaten by Protesters

https://www.catholicworldreport.com/2020/06/24/madisons-days-of-rage/
Madison’s Days of Rage
Arrest of black activist who allegedly accosted a Rosary-praying mother of four and restaurant patrons sparks riots, firebomb, and criminal damage to statues in the downtown of Wisconsin’s capital.

url]https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/wisconsin-man-triggered-protest-charged-extortion-71484903[/url]
Wisconsin man who triggered protest charged with extortion
Federal prosecutors have charged a Black man whose arrest triggered a violent protest in Wisconsin's capital city with extorting local businesses


url]https://www.catholicworldreport.com/2020/06/27/blm-activist-faces-federal-extortion-charges-in-madison-wi/[/url]
BLM activist faces federal extortion charges in Madison, WI
« Last Edit: August 31, 2020, 05:56:04 PM by iam4liberty »

Offline Docwatmo

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Re: The George Floyd riots in Mpls
« Reply #346 on: August 31, 2020, 07:15:09 PM »
Its hard to believe anyone with any sense of morality could support these terrorists.

Offline surfivor

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Re: The George Floyd riots in Mpls
« Reply #347 on: September 02, 2020, 12:10:52 AM »
Where i live on the east coast you see black lives matter signs all over the place at least in some of the suburbs. I don't think the media is reporting what's going on in many places. Some stuff I see on FB is from people who know more about what's going on. There are also a fair amount on the other side as if it's  mostly peaceful protesters or that Trump somehow caused it I guess is the narrative and that Trump supporters are racists. I'm sure there's peaceful protesters but the violence seems like it's on the scale of a full out war in some of those cities is the impression I get. We had some serious property destruction in Boston probably 6 weeks ago or whenever it was but not much else since then in the new england area that I am aware of or that I can recall.

I went to a music store last weekend and this guy was freaked out about everything and that guy rittenhouse. This is the first time that has happened where I met a stranger in public who had that reaction and he was not a leftists but seemed quite alarmed and he showed me a mini torch he could use to burn someone for self defense

We know of a woman who adopted a Chinese girl from china. The girl is now college age and calls the mother a racist for supporting trump. I think the mother must be helping this girl go to an expensive college as well  There is a very strong contingent of hard core leftists and anti trump people out there and people who see trump as the worst thing that's ever happened. I know there are some sensitive types of issues .. I tend to be politically correct myself but I think it has become like a puritanical religion to promote certain political correctness.

« Last Edit: September 02, 2020, 12:17:45 AM by surfivor »

Offline surfivor

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Re: The George Floyd riots in Mpls
« Reply #348 on: September 02, 2020, 12:35:44 AM »
Alex jones mentioned how NPR ran an article that was called "in defense of looting". If you can support looting for social justice then it's not too far from there to support killing people either which seems to be what some of the radicals are doing and basically calling for war on the streets. I think Jack said that that's what they want and to go down that road is a trap. I have thought the same thing but at some point it seems like it becomes inevitable that you can't expect people to be attacked and not want to fight back

https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2020/08/27/906642178/one-authors-argument-in-defense-of-looting

Quote
When she finished it, back in April, she wrote that "a new energy of resistance is building across the country." Now, as protests and riots continue to grip cities, she stakes out a provocative position: that looting is a powerful tool to bring about real, lasting change in society. The rioters who smash windows and take items from stores, she claims, are engaging in a powerful tactic that questions the justice of "law and order," and the distribution of property and wealth in an unequal society.

Offline DDJ

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Re: The George Floyd riots in Mpls
« Reply #349 on: September 02, 2020, 10:53:52 AM »

Just because I looked up Terrorism on Wiki how are these riots not falling under that.  Does anyone have a "legal" dictionary is there an organizational component to it that is not in Wiki?. 


Terrorism is, in the broadest sense, the use of intentional violence for political or religious purposes.[1] It is used in this regard primarily to refer to violence during peacetime or in the context of war against non-combatants (mostly civilians and neutral military personnel).[2] The terms "terrorist" and "terrorism" originated during the French Revolution of the late 18th century[3] but gained mainstream popularity in the 1970s during the conflicts of Northern Ireland, the Basque Country and Palestine. The increased use of suicide attacks from the 1980s onwards was typified by the September 11 attacks in New York City and Washington, D.C. in 2001.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism

By the same token the unbadged "Defenders of Freedom" who go to the places to stop the Riots would then also fall under the same ruling/definition. 

Those that do have a badge and/or the authority of law are not 100% correct.  There is always the debate as to the enforcement of law and order with violence and where the line is. 


Offline surfivor

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Re: The George Floyd riots in Mpls
« Reply #350 on: September 02, 2020, 11:18:59 AM »
Just because I looked up Terrorism on Wiki how are these riots not falling under that.  Does anyone have a "legal" dictionary is there an organizational component to it that is not in Wiki?. 


Terrorism is, in the broadest sense, the use of intentional violence for political or religious purposes.[1] It is used in this regard primarily to refer to violence during peacetime or in the context of war against non-combatants (mostly civilians and neutral military personnel).[2] The terms "terrorist" and "terrorism" originated during the French Revolution of the late 18th century[3] but gained mainstream popularity in the 1970s during the conflicts of Northern Ireland, the Basque Country and Palestine. The increased use of suicide attacks from the 1980s onwards was typified by the September 11 attacks in New York City and Washington, D.C. in 2001.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism

By the same token the unbadged "Defenders of Freedom" who go to the places to stop the Riots would then also fall under the same ruling/definition. 

Those that do have a badge and/or the authority of law are not 100% correct.  There is always the debate as to the enforcement of law and order with violence and where the line is.

 I have never liked the term terrorism which came from 911 mostly and the patriot act but clearly there is some kind of warfare going on so one can either deny that or pick a side I suppose depending on what you believe or the other possibility is that you could be under the influence of propaganda

Offline Morning Sunshine

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Re: The George Floyd riots in Mpls
« Reply #351 on: September 02, 2020, 11:25:50 AM »
I have never liked the term terrorism which came from 911 mostly and the patriot act but clearly there is some kind of warfare going on so one can either deny that or pick a side I suppose depending on what you believe or the other possibility is that you could be under the influence of propaganda

disagree.  They were using the term terrorist LONG before 9/11.  In the early 90s (when I started being aware of news and events) I heard the word terrorist.

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: The George Floyd riots in Mpls
« Reply #352 on: September 02, 2020, 12:03:15 PM »
disagree.  They were using the term terrorist LONG before 9/11.  In the early 90s (when I started being aware of news and events) I heard the word terrorist.

Yep.  It has been a constant since the 1970s.  The big turning point in global coverage was the Munich massacre. 

This said, the patriot act did provide a definition for determining if crimes constituted "domestic terrorism".  As explained in the ACLU summary:

A person engages in domestic terrorism if they do an act "dangerous to human life" that is a violation of the criminal laws of a state or the United States, if the act appears to be intended to:  (i) intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination or kidnapping.

ANTIFA is now classified as a domestic terrorist organization as its members clearly fit the definition on all points.

On a related topic, America's favorite mayor is now hiding from ANTIFA. They tried to burn down his condo complex killing him and everyone else inside.

https://nypost.com/2020/09/02/portland-mayor-wheeler-moving-to-avoid-rioters-targeting-building/
Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler moving to avoid rioters targeting his home

Offline surfivor

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Re: The George Floyd riots in Mpls
« Reply #353 on: September 02, 2020, 02:34:51 PM »
 It isn't a generic term ? I mean the British empire could have said that the colonist or G Washington was a terrorist. What is an enemy combatant. It's very similar it means those are the bad guys

What is the war on terror really or what are it's objectives, not to end all terrorism. The CIA has helped fund terrorists too. I can relate to what people mean by using terrorism as word but I find it kind of subjective at least. I mean the second amendment is there to protect against tyranny but someone could claim that sounds like potential terrorism

The government basically said in order to fight terrorism we need to spy on everyone, curb all privacy and civil liberties. That is the result of 911 and the war on terror but I never thought any of that made sense and never bought into any of it. So terrorism sometimes seems like a loaded term tied to all that. That in no way means I like antifa as it seems we are headed to some kind of war and they are like the enemy, communists basically
« Last Edit: September 02, 2020, 02:43:36 PM by surfivor »

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: The George Floyd riots in Mpls
« Reply #354 on: September 02, 2020, 03:38:59 PM »
There are general definitions then there are legal definitions.  Legal definitions are used in all legal matters (criminal and civil procedures).  Both domestic terrorism and enemy combatant have very specific definitions which limit how they are applied in these matters.  Enemy combatant was first defined by the supreme court in the 1940s as a type of unlawful combatant:

Unlawful combatants are likewise subject to capture and detention, but in addition they are subject to trial and punishment by military tribunals for acts which render their belligerency unlawful. The spy who secretly and without uniform passes the military lines of a belligerent in time of war, seeking to gather military information and communicate it to the enemy, or an enemy combatant who without uniform comes secretly through the lines for the purpose of waging war by destruction of life or property, are familiar examples of belligerents who are generally deemed not to be entitled to the status of prisoners of war, but to be offenders against the law of war subject to trial and punishment by military tribunals.

This was later refined in the MCA of 2006: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_Commissions_Act_of_2006#Unlawful_and_lawful_enemy_combatant

So, no, they just cant name someone these things.  They are very strictly defined for legal matters.

Offline surfivor

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Re: The George Floyd riots in Mpls
« Reply #355 on: September 02, 2020, 06:01:49 PM »
Quote
not to be entitled to the status of prisoners of war, but to be offenders against the law of war subject to trial and punishment by military tribunals.

Does this try to justify things such as torture ? I have never supported torture and don't agree with rationalizations or claims about it's usefulness; probably not solitary confinement such as assange etc either. A quick and short death by firing squad is even more humane treatment. I don't care what ethics experts and others may claim

Offline surfivor

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Re: The George Floyd riots in Mpls
« Reply #356 on: September 02, 2020, 06:27:54 PM »
Politico says this as I recall (below) and habeus corpus seems like a basic right for modern civilization.

My impression and from memory is it can basically give the government the ability to arrest someone without charges and hold them in prison indefinitely without a trial or charges which violates the right of due process for potentially anyone it sounds like such as citizens etc, it seems very much an ideal condition for tyranny and loss of basic freedom. Even if I think trump may not do such things, I really don't like this stuff and terminology left over from 911

>> Enemy combatants may have their Habeas Corpus rights — the right for anyone imprisoned by America to challenge their imprisonment — suspended. Therefore, they can be imprisoned for an indefinite period of time without being able to challenge it.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2020, 06:35:41 PM by surfivor »

Offline Morning Sunshine

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Re: The George Floyd riots in Mpls
« Reply #357 on: September 02, 2020, 06:44:09 PM »
Politico says this as I recall (below) and habeus corpus seems like a basic right for modern civilization.

My impression and from memory is it can basically give the government the ability to arrest someone without charges and hold them in prison indefinitely without a trial or charges which violates the right of due process for potentially anyone it sounds like such as citizens etc, it seems very much an ideal condition for tyranny and loss of basic freedom. Even if I think trump may not do such things, I really don't like this stuff and terminology left over from 911

>> Enemy combatants may have their Habeas Corpus rights — the right for anyone imprisoned by America to challenge their imprisonment — suspended. Therefore, they can be imprisoned for an indefinite period of time without being able to challenge it.

I regret my attitude after 9/11.  I cheered for the creation of the Dept. of Homeland Security (What is the Dept. of Defense for if not to protect - to DEFEND - our homeland?  It implies that our military is ONLY for conflicts abroad, and we have need of a new system for our actual DEFENSE.)
I also lauded the Patriot Act.  I wish to high heaven that I had not; not that one lone peon citizen would have made a difference, but the bill was too big, too unwieldy, and TOO FAST to have been done with liberties and freedom in mind.  it needs to be repealed.

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: The George Floyd riots in Mpls
« Reply #358 on: September 02, 2020, 07:16:46 PM »
Does this try to justify things such as torture ?

Absolutely not.  Bush tried to use it as such when CIA went totally nuts but was rebuked.  Torture is explicitely prohibited by the Detainee Treatment Act.

Politico says this as I recall (below) and habeus corpus seems like a basic right for modern civilization.

Habeus Corpus was protected through the actions of libertarians who led suit against Bush.  The Supreme Court ruled in Boumediene v. Bush that detainees had the direct right to habeas corpus challenges. And even the dissenting opinion still required HC rights just through different process.  It was never a question for citizens so has no bearing on domestic terrorism.

I regret my attitude after 9/11.  I cheered for the creation of the Dept. of Homeland Security (What is the Dept. of Defense for if not to protect - to DEFEND - our homeland?  It implies that our military is ONLY for conflicts abroad, and we have need of a new system for our actual DEFENSE.)
I also lauded the Patriot Act.  I wish to high heaven that I had not; not that one lone peon citizen would have made a difference, but the bill was too big, too unwieldy, and TOO FAST to have been done with liberties and freedom in mind.  it needs to be repealed.

I was against all of them from start but understand why people thought they were needed.  But good news is that we have been chipping away at them steadily.  And the last really aggregious part, the FISA Court and domestic spying, will fall if either Trump or Jo Jorgensen win the next term.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2020, 07:21:55 PM by iam4liberty »

Offline surfivor

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Re: The George Floyd riots in Mpls
« Reply #359 on: September 03, 2020, 12:43:54 AM »
I think lincoln suspended habeus corpus but after the civil war ended then what he did no longer applied. I feel like what started with 911 is still effecting us 20 years later with stuff like the patriot act etc. This article indicates that the justice department and those in washington are still at it with the supposed plandemic to implement emergency powers that suspend habeus corpus when the threat is exhagerated and unproven


https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/21/doj-coronavirus-emergency-powers-140023