The Survival Podcast Forum

Armory, Self Defense, And EDC => Edged Weapons and Tools => Topic started by: stevebluff on September 20, 2008, 09:47:47 AM

Title: what edged weapons do you really need?
Post by: stevebluff on September 20, 2008, 09:47:47 AM
In all my GOOD bags I have a machete, extremely useful tool. You can chop with it, hammer, and god forbid better defence than a Swiss army knife!  I also have a leatherman with extra slot in tools.  I also have a wood saw with a handle (looks like a knife not a bow saw).  I keep the saw in the machete sheath.  I have historically used Swiss army knifes before I have my first ever leatherman, never looked back.  I cannot imagine what I cannot do with these three tools. The only other knife I have in some kits is a home made skinning knife (keeps the mess of your leathermans).  One of the issues if yuo do not have a machinated/parang or hatchet, is that you would have problems shelter building.  Thoughts???
Title: Re: what edged weapons do you really need?
Post by: ModernSurvival on September 20, 2008, 10:17:00 AM
I just found the Fiskars "Brush Axe"

(http://www.fiskars.com/wps/wcm/connect/d1d2c60045cd9235bc9dfc0fc61cf272/7860_p.jpg?MOD=AJPERES)

They are about 47 bucks retail but Wally World had them on clearence as usual of all garden stuff by August ::)  There foolishness was my gain.  I picked up one for 14 bucks!  I should have bought 6!

It is not a do it all edged tool but damn it is close.  I have to make a proper sheath for it and will be keeping an eye out for more of them with red stickers in any walmart I go into.  The steel is exceptional and it has great power and holds an exceptional edge.  I would still want a good knife too but this is an awesome tool.  It would also be one hell of a defensive weapon.
Title: Re: what edged weapons do you really need?
Post by: minrlwtr on September 20, 2008, 07:34:00 PM
I will jockinly say its a communist plot that folks in texas  cannot carry or posses a bowie knife, i have looked at the laws asknce because my brother lives in Austin and he says just now they changed them top allow to put the length of knife i gave him for xmas is now legal??? input please. A small knife cannot do a big job but the proper big Knife can do both.
Title: Re: what edged weapons do you really need?
Post by: BigDanInTX on September 22, 2008, 09:12:52 AM
Legal length in Texas is 5½".  However, in San Antonio, they have "outlawed" folding knives.  They will gladly let you in with your CHL/pistol, but they don't want you carrying a folder.  This type of Bass Ackwards thought process drives me nuts.
Title: Re: what edged weapons do you really need?
Post by: ColdHaven on September 23, 2008, 05:28:42 PM
I think you need an edged weapon for the different tasks you need it for. This can vary depending on where you live. If I am in the desert I might not need a machete. Several people on various forums seem to think that one knife will be able to solve all of their problems. I have a survival knife that is durable and does what it is intended for very well. It can cut, chop, and do other tasks readily without me fearing that it will somehow break. In addition to the survival knife I plan on getting a hatchet. Even though my survival knife does an excellent job at chopping, if I use the same instrument for everything, it will eventually wear out quicker. I don' t think anyone can really dispute that. So, I am going to get a hatchet, but what I am still up in the air about is a machete. They are nice, and sharp, but they are long and bulky. My survival knife does well, and as I found out at my last camping excursion, my e-tool does wonders for clearing an area. I have thought about a saw, but same kind of issue with the machete. I may or may not get that. Of course, having a smaller knife is a plus for anything you need to do on a small scale, but I never worry about that. I have always carried a pocket knife since I was in the military.
Title: Re: what edged weapons do you really need?
Post by: creuzerm on September 24, 2008, 12:36:08 AM
Edged WEAPON? I would take the biggest baddest blade that I could whip around and poke with that I could find. If I have a machete, and the other guy has a broadsword, I better hope I can run faster with my small, light machete then he can with his big heavy sword.

Probably one of the best edged weapons of all time was the Roman Gladius. It was used mostly for poking, like a short spear. It's light, easy to use, easy to carry, easy to train to use.
The longsword was a weapon that came about after stirrups where invented and a short sword just didn't have the reach needed to poke somebody from on top of a running horse. They are heavy, ungainly, and hard to train with. A pain to carry too. Look at how they trimmed down and evolved into sabers by the time Custer was out shooting up the natives in the Dakotas.
A Katana, while not a poking weapon, again uses primarily the tip to do the work. These also take a lot of training to use effectively.
I don't ever want to be on the wrong end of any of these. I will try my best to stay at least 3-4 feet away from somebody waving one of these about. 

I have read that Nobody wins a knife fight - everyone gets cut. About the only way you could win a knife fight is if the  other guy didn't have one at all.
Or didn't have one as handy as you do. A college room-mate showed me how to use a balisong - butterfly knife. Pretty bladework, I can dig my lockback out of my pocket and open it with one hand faster then he can fiddle and flash his fancy blade open. Intimidation factor, butterfly knife wins bar none if you can do all them fancy tricks. Actual fight, a simple click as that lockback latches is what I would look for.
How does that quote go? "Silly, bringing a knife to a gun fight"?


Edged Tool, now that's a different story.

Look in your kitchen. You probably have several to many different knives in the drawer/block. Do you use all of them every time you cook? Have you used all of them in any given month? Heck, are there some that you haven't used at all?

Each knife is for a different purpose. Try something to see if bigger or smaller is better, for a week use only the smallest paring knife you have, see how well it works, the next week, the biggest chefs knife you have.
Could you do everything needed with both knives? Which was easier to do the majority of tasks with? Did you use the two sized knives differently to do the same task?

Take that thought process and apply it to survival needs. Can you cut through a 2 inch tree limb with a machete? Yes, with a single mighty blow. Can you gut that branch with the inch and a half short blade of a pen knife, yep, just takes a while longer. Now peel a potato or wild duckpotato bulb or whatever. Not so easy with that machete, is it?

Which can can carry with you at all times? You can't use it if its at home, in the truck, in your back back at camp, or in the possession of the police for some stupid reason. Back to the weapon topic, is it a useful weapon if you don't have it on you?

I carry 3 knives with me at all times. A 3.5 inch lockback that I use ALL the time. One of those small victornox keychain knives which i use the scissors on all the time, the blade much less often. I also carry a victornonx Cybertool which I use for the tools regularly - I have actually never used either blade on it in the years I have carried it. The cybertool will probably get swapped out for a multitool when I find one small enough for jeans pocket carry.

I have a fireaxe in the truck. If I need to get a tree out of the road on a dark and storm night, I have the tools with me to do so. It will also make quick work of a windshield of a rolled car if I want to drag someone out. It can make quick work of small firewood, and can split small wood into kindling.

I don't know what I would have along with on a camping trip, a machete or a hatchet. It would depend on the terrain, Florida, the machete, old growth forest, the hatchet, mixed new growth woods, maybe the machete? Back to the weapon topic, a machete is much easier to whip about then a hatchet, and they seem to be popular and brutally effective in parts of Africa. A good solid hit on the head with a hatchet though and it's game over man. A tomahawk can also be used as a ranged weapon with some practice and looks to be a tad more nimble and have a bit more reach then a normal camping hatchet.

What edged weapon/tool do you really need? The one that will solve the problem at hand. If you don' have it with you, it can't solve the problem no matter how perfect it would work.
To pick the first edged weapon/tool? I would start with a small to midsized folder that you can easily and quickly open with one hand - try it with your off had too. It may be a little to big, or a little to small for many tasks, but that is a lot better then totally unworkable for a few tasks in my book.

2nd edged weapon/tool? Something big, bad, lots of intimidation factor, easy to whip about, and otherwise just cool - it's going to sit on top of your bookshelf anyhow, so get it as cool as you can, right? Eh, maybe for the 3rd, 2nd would probably be a machete, kukri, hatchet or tomahawk depending on your regional conditions and what strikes your fancy.

What blog did I see the great phrase, Two is one, one is none? Something to think about too.
Title: Re: what edged weapons do you really need?
Post by: BigDanInTX on September 24, 2008, 04:52:13 AM
I wonder if the "shoot and scoot" could be adapted to an edged weapon...  hmmm...
Title: Re: what edged weapons do you really need?
Post by: ModernSurvival on September 24, 2008, 06:33:35 AM
Sure, slash and scoot, slash and scoot!  ;)
Title: Re: what edged weapons do you really need?
Post by: creuzerm on September 24, 2008, 08:13:55 PM
Hit and run?

Title: Re: what edged weapons do you really need?
Post by: DeltaEchoVictor on September 24, 2008, 11:00:34 PM
I carry a Gerber para-frame for EDC.

When I head to the woods I have a midsized sheath knife that goes on the belt & an LTC kukri that goes in the Jeep & sometimes on the belt.  I keep a hatchet as well as a folding GI shovel in the Jeep all the time.

Realistically speaking, since we're actually not living in a PAW, it makes sense to carry enough knife for whatever you might encounter on a daily basis.  For me that's opening boxes, cutting ty-gard & various other warehouse materials.  I have very little use for a big badass, ninja killing blade in my day to day life.  I do keep other edged tools in various places, I keep a multi-tool in my EDC bag.

The right tool for the right job is an axiom I tend to follow when it comes to all things sharp.
Title: Re: what edged weapons do you really need?
Post by: Dan on September 25, 2008, 03:27:53 PM
I have thought about a saw, but same kind of issue with the machete. I may or may not get that.

ColdHaven,

Have you looked at the Gerber machete? it has saw teeth on the back of the blade so it's a twofer, you get both machete and saw but with the bulk and weight of just the machete. Plus you can get them for under $20.
Title: Re: what edged weapons do you really need?
Post by: ColdHaven on September 26, 2008, 10:30:55 AM
I have thought about a saw, but same kind of issue with the machete. I may or may not get that.

ColdHaven,

Have you looked at the Gerber machete? it has saw teeth on the back of the blade so it's a twofer, you get both machete and saw but with the bulk and weight of just the machete. Plus you can get them for under $20.

I will definitely look into that. I haven't looked into them before because Gerber anything tends to be expensive...unless its applesauce.  ;D
Title: Re: what edged weapons do you really need?
Post by: BigDanInTX on September 26, 2008, 11:13:12 AM
I almost purchased one of those exact machetes a while back.  Saved the money instead for something else.  That's one of the things I'd like to strap to my BOB, as it can definitely prove to be invaluable.  =-]
Title: Re: what edged weapons do you really need?
Post by: dreadstalker on September 27, 2008, 02:39:53 PM
For those of you with external frame BOB's it is very easy to attach a bow saw blade to the frame rail. The bucksaw handle can easily be improvised in the field.
 I carry a 14 in saw blade complete with a couple of small bolts on my frame.
Title: Re: what edged weapons do you really need?
Post by: mitchshrader on September 30, 2008, 06:11:12 AM
a 30 inch bow saw blade can be carried coiled (recommend Sandvik )  frame can be improvised, minimal hardware..

Granfors Bruks small forest axe (good sturdy big hatchet)

Byrd Wings as ultralight folder, bang/buck

Rat-3 in D2 as 'camp knife)

USAF Pilots Survival Knife, BANG/BUCK WINNER.. (40$ and 98% optimum).. 

CRKT M16Z honorable mention-good in dark alleys..
Title: Re: what edged weapons do you really need?
Post by: kaiservontexas on September 30, 2008, 10:52:08 AM
Legal length in Texas is 5½".  However, in San Antonio, they have "outlawed" folding knives.  They will gladly let you in with your CHL/pistol, but they don't want you carrying a folder.  This type of Bass Ackwards thought process drives me nuts.

Any folder? Would a SAK be prohibited? I am curious. I do not live in SATX, which is probably why I have never head of this regulation.
Title: Re: what edged weapons do you really need?
Post by: surfivor on October 01, 2008, 12:44:55 PM

 I study kung fu from a really excellent teacher, but it takes a long time to become very advanced. I don't really get to class that much and in the summer, I hardly ever go at all. They have some really cool stick forms as well as sword stuff. I practice some tai chi sword forms I learned there, but even though I am half way through the 6th kung fu form, I am still not far enough advanced for weapons training ... they have spear forms as well.

Title: Re: what edged weapons do you really need?
Post by: BigDanInTX on October 01, 2008, 01:04:50 PM
Any folder? Would a SAK be prohibited? I am curious. I do not live in SATX, which is probably why I have never head of this regulation.
No idea.  San Antonio is notorious for adding additional legislation even though it's not actually "legal".
Title: Re: what edged weapons do you really need?
Post by: Andyman on October 04, 2008, 06:30:30 AM
It's a good idea to have at least 10-15 letter openers.
....I'm just kidding.
Title: Re: what edged weapons do you really need?
Post by: Hellboy on October 12, 2008, 06:47:28 PM
Everyone should have one of these:

The Woodmans Pal ;D

(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a212/alexmartinjr/woodsmanpal.jpg)

My Wife got it for me a couple of years ago.
Title: Re: what edged weapons do you really need?
Post by: DeltaEchoVictor on October 12, 2008, 08:24:25 PM
Everyone should have one of these:

The Woodmans Pal ;D

(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a212/alexmartinjr/woodsmanpal.jpg)

My Wife got it for me a couple of years ago.

That thing doesn't look like it's gettin' much love Hellboy.  They get grumpy if you don't get 'em out & get 'em dirty. ;D

Like this old LTC Kukri of mine...ya gotta wear the black off the sweet spot.
(http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n14/OzarkRamblr/Archery/IMG_20080406_0001.jpg)
Title: Re: what edged weapons do you really need?
Post by: Beetle on October 12, 2008, 09:12:58 PM
I carry a Benchmade auto with me 24/7.

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3159/2937095792_7a7bc6e20c_o.jpg)
Title: Re: what edged weapons do you really need?
Post by: Hellboy on October 13, 2008, 08:34:06 PM
Everyone should have one of these:

The Woodmans Pal ;D

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a212/alexmartinjr/woodsmanpal.jpg

My Wife got it for me a couple of years ago.

That thing doesn't look like it's gettin' much love Hellboy.  They get grumpy if you don't get 'em out & get 'em dirty. ;D

Like this old LTC Kukri of mine...ya gotta wear the black off the sweet spot.
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n14/OzarkRamblr/Archery/IMG_20080406_0001.jpg


It is plenty beat up now. I will have to do a before and after pic ;)
Title: Re: what edged weapons do you really need?
Post by: DeltaEchoVictor on October 14, 2008, 03:06:15 AM
Everyone should have one of these:

The Woodmans Pal ;D

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a212/alexmartinjr/woodsmanpal.jpg

My Wife got it for me a couple of years ago.

That thing doesn't look like it's gettin' much love Hellboy.  They get grumpy if you don't get 'em out & get 'em dirty. ;D

Like this old LTC Kukri of mine...ya gotta wear the black off the sweet spot.
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n14/OzarkRamblr/Archery/IMG_20080406_0001.jpg


It is plenty beat up now. I will have to do a before and after pic ;)

LOL...Alright, I was just afraid it wasn't gettin' the love it deserved. ;D
Title: Re: what edged weapons do you really need?
Post by: Patriot:Ex Machina on October 29, 2008, 08:48:06 PM
Here's a photo of my AK bayonet along side of the Kukri i picked up last month at the Winston Salem Gun Show.
She hasn't been broke in properly, but she's going to get some work this weekend while me and some friends cut a trail.
(http://i530.photobucket.com/albums/dd344/patriot2980/Picture041.jpg)

I've got all kinds of blades floating around the homestead here. Machetes, knives, hatchets, bush axes, they all serve an important purpose.
Title: Re: what edged weapons do you really need?
Post by: TimSuggs on November 23, 2008, 11:22:28 PM

 I study kung fu from a really excellent teacher, but it takes a long time to become very advanced. I don't really get to class that much and in the summer, I hardly ever go at all. They have some really cool stick forms as well as sword stuff. I practice some tai chi sword forms I learned there, but even though I am half way through the 6th kung fu form, I am still not far enough advanced for weapons training ... they have spear forms as well.



My daughter is a Theater Major locally and she is taking a period weapons class and is learning rapier and staff movements at the moment.  Both her and my middle son will be certified "Fight Choreographers" after she gets her certification.  My two sons are both Black Belts in Ta Kwon Do, and my daughter is, well...  she's just female, and naturally comes equipped with sharp fangs, claws and that natural killer instinct.  I didn't feel the need to increase her lethality. 

All kidding aside, theatrical weaponry is a little different than fighting weaponry, but they still teach the correct ways to employ the weapon, you just don't get into the theory and overall applications as much, but you are taught the correct way to use the weapon.  Knowing my daughter, she'd probably just shred the creep's jugular before looking for a stick to beat him with though.  Nice to know she'll know how to handle a staff nontheless (and she has the bruises to prove it too.).

Tim Suggs
Birmingham, AL. USA!
Title: Re: what edged weapons do you really need?
Post by: TimSuggs on November 23, 2008, 11:27:36 PM
In all my GOOD bags I have a machete, extremely useful tool. You can chop with it, hammer, and god forbid better defence than a Swiss army knife!  I also have a leatherman with extra slot in tools.  I also have a wood saw with a handle (looks like a knife not a bow saw).  I keep the saw in the machete sheath.  I have historically used Swiss army knifes before I have my first ever leatherman, never looked back.  I cannot imagine what I cannot do with these three tools. The only other knife I have in some kits is a home made skinning knife (keeps the mess of your leathermans).  One of the issues if yuo do not have a machinated/parang or hatchet, is that you would have problems shelter building.  Thoughts???

Hmmmm...  Let's see what I can pull out of my old bag of tricks, I'll let the picture do my talking.

(http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp229/timsuggs/Survival%20Podcast%20Forum/11-16-08084.jpg)
L-R:  Boker, M-Tech, Frost, Ontario SPAX, Ontario SP8, KABAR Heavy, Colt Jungle Master


Tim Suggs
Birmingham, AL. USA!
Title: Re: what edged weapons do you really need?
Post by: Debo on January 02, 2009, 02:53:17 PM
I like Kukri's -----> Have a Himalayan Imports kukri
I like Tomahawks ----  >  Have a Horrigan Tomahawk
I like good fixed blades ----->  Have a Horrigan Military Fighter that went through SERE school with me.
I like Leatherman's ------>  Be careful with the Needlenose variety, I broke mine and they swiftly replaced it.


This covers my needs pretty well.


D.
Title: Re: what edged weapons do you really need?
Post by: wcff3431 on January 21, 2009, 03:08:25 PM
man another sp-8. tim do you like it. and which one do you use the most.
Title: Re: what edged weapons do you really need?
Post by: TimSuggs on January 21, 2009, 05:58:24 PM
man another sp-8. tim do you like it. and which one do you use the most.

I love my SP8!  Fantastic utility tool.  I use it more "in city" than in the woods though.  I usually carry it when I do Birmingham's annual City Stages Music Event (I'm one of the contractors that builds the damn thing every year) and I have used it for prying doors and windows open, hacked through a windshield one night at a car crash, pry up stakes that we use to anchor stuff, split 2x4's to use as stakes, and I even used it as a spatula one night when we BBQ'd for the bums the night before we kick them out of the big city park.  The only shortcoming I have found with the SP8 is, defensively, the lack of a thrusting point leaves me wanting.  BUT, do not let that stop you from thinking of an SP8 "defensively" as you can hack and slash with the best of them.  Here's a few pics of the working edges for your enjoyment...

(http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp229/timsuggs/Survival%20Podcast%20Forum/088.jpg)
(http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp229/timsuggs/Survival%20Podcast%20Forum/089.jpg)
(http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp229/timsuggs/Survival%20Podcast%20Forum/090.jpg)
(http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp229/timsuggs/Survival%20Podcast%20Forum/091.jpg)
(http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp229/timsuggs/Survival%20Podcast%20Forum/092.jpg)
(http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp229/timsuggs/Survival%20Podcast%20Forum/093.jpg)

Tim.

Title: Re: what edged weapons do you really need?
Post by: wcff3431 on January 21, 2009, 07:19:35 PM
yeah i have have one for years. if i happen to loss it the next week i am at my local dealer getting another one. had not thought of using it as a spatula. thanks for the idea.
Title: Re: what edged weapons do you really need?
Post by: barnesglobal on January 22, 2009, 11:06:12 AM
I found an online version of the Texas Penal Code http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/pe.toc.htm

In it "Illegal Knife is defined

, (6)  "Illegal knife" means a:

(A)  knife with a blade over five and one-half inches;

(B)  hand instrument designed to cut or stab another by being thrown;

(C)  dagger, including but not limited to a dirk, stiletto, and poniard;

(D)  bowie knife;

(E)  sword; or

(F)  spear.
Title: Re: what edged weapons do you really need?
Post by: BigDanInTX on January 22, 2009, 12:27:17 PM
That's the one.  =-]

I think it also includes balisong (butterfly knife).

I tried looking for the San Antonio "law" about folders, but never could find it.
Title: Re: what edged weapons do you really need?
Post by: kaiservontexas on January 25, 2009, 10:00:45 PM
I am with DeltaEchoVictor's choice of axe.

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i236/kaiservontexas/Edged/DSC00997.jpg)

Another good choice

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i236/kaiservontexas/Edged/DSC00947.jpg)

And this one because the KaBar and Bushman are pictured:

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i236/kaiservontexas/Edged/KnifeCollection1112-15-07.jpg)