The Window is about to CLOSE. Get your guns and ammo NOW.

[FreeLancer]

MM, that’s a high price.  Turners has SU16CA’s in stock for $640 and they have one store up in your area in Salinas.  It’s possible they could put it on sale for <$600 one of these weeks, too.

[mountainmoma]

MM, that’s a high price.  Turners has SU16CA’s in stock for $640 and they have one store up in your area in Salinas.  It’s possible they could put it on sale for <$600 one of these weeks, too.

good to know, yes, Salinas is not too far to drive, I have never even heard of that store.  I do not know much about what is available in Monterey county and havent been to Salinas in decades.  But, it does make sense that they might have more shopping in this type of product

[Chemsoldier]

I have 100% no evidence and I certainly know no one in the industry (not like I live across the river from Federal and live among the employees) but I fully believe the ammo shortages were because the feds bought it all up. After losing in the courts the grabbers went after ammo. Believe it or not the target of your guns is the ammo. Ask what doubling the price of 9mm does to your IDPA club. Amazingly in the late 00s you could get every hunting round but 9mm, .45, 5.56, and 7.62 went away. And none so bad as .22.

If I was in the government and I wanted to ban your guns I would try to make ammo hard to find. Not the one shot one kill expensive ammo. I'd target the ammo for beginners. I'd go after your "day at the range" ammo. And how many kids never got that first .22?

Again, I have no idea what I'm talking about and this is random speculation. I've certainly never spoken to an ammo employee and heard "we can't even stock .22 in the company store and we aren't sure where it's going but you won't see it for retail".

Bear in mind that industrial quantity ammo loading machines are adjustable to a degree, but rimfire is rimfire, the government categorically did not buy up the rimfire market.  Unpossible, did not happen.

Also, the procurement process is funky, it generates a paper trail and when it is not designed to do something it does not work well at all.  The normal ammo procurement process would have generated an easy to detect signature.  Outside normal process methods (such as government purchase cards) just don't work.  Combine that with the fact that those that procure ammo for the government tend to be gun freaks on the side anyway we would know about it.

The bottom line to me is that demand spiked, most ammo companies were scared of adding too many machines, floor space and employees and being caught out with extreme excess capacity.  Talking to people in the industry, the ammo companies added machines where is was logical for them (such as they already had unutilized space in a factory), utilized overtime but didn't want to add a lot of extra employees they would have to terminate when demand fell.  A few companies did take a chance and added a lot of capacity, and it paid off by and large (well, till 2017 at least).  Another place there was huge growth was in the remanufactured market.  They have taken a huge hit since then due to pancaking demand and QA/QC issues.

[FreeLancer]

good to know, yes, Salinas is not too far to drive, I have never even heard of that store.  I do not know much about what is available in Monterey county and havent been to Salinas in decades.  But, it does make sense that they might have more shopping in this type of product

Turners Outdoorsman is SoCal based and they’ve been opening up new stores like crazy in the last year.  I don’t bother looking anywhere else for guns, nobody else is doing the kind of volume it takes to offer deals. Ammo deals are few and far between, though.

[iam4liberty]

Mountainmama, your comments on weight and compactness make me wonder if a carbine might not be more ideal for you.  Something like a M1 carbine.  Not sure if a paratrooper would be legal there, but a standard stock one is about as non-aggressive looking as a military implement can be. 

[scoop]

Ok, maybe I should buy a modern sprting rifle, htey are light weight, adjustable, etc.... but maybe expensive ? Are there still components to put together ?  ANd, even if I do or dont buy a new one, I have some practice ammo, but what would be a good actual round for the mini-14, not just for practice ? And, how many rounds should one have...... My house is only so big.....

With that in mind, I really like the Ruger 9mm carbine, the PC.
It'll accept a Glock or Ruger 9mm magazine.

I know, it's a 9mm carbine, but it has its place.

[Carl]

With that in mind, I really like the Ruger 9mm carbine, the PC.
It'll accept a Glock or Ruger 9mm magazine.

I know, it's a 9mm carbine, but it has its place.

Lightweight,low recoil and noise...adequate with proper shot placement....good choice

[FreeLancer]

With that in mind, I really like the Ruger 9mm carbine, the PC.
It'll accept a Glock or Ruger 9mm magazine.

I know, it's a 9mm carbine, but it has its place.

I haven’t shot mine yet, but I have high hopes. 

But, as I recall, MM already has a 9mm carbine.

[FreeLancer]

And the PC is 2 lbs heavier than the SU.

[mountainmoma]

I haven’t shot mine yet, but I have high hopes. 

But, as I recall, MM already has a 9mm carbine.

yep. I realy like it too, it is a camp 9.  It can get a bit heavy to carry around and hold up, but no more noticeable recoil than the 10-22's with harder hitting.

 

Mountainmama, your comments on weight and compactness make me wonder if a carbine might not be more ideal for you.  Something like a M1 carbine.  Not sure if a paratrooper would be legal there, but a standard stock one is about as non-aggressive looking as a military implement can be.

We do like the classic, wood stock carbines around here.  I was wondering if I have been missing out in not having an adjustable, composite, light weight, easy to transport without a conspicuous rifle case, before they run out.  But, likely I have waited too long already.  I like the M1's .  But I am low on cash and already have a decent wood stock rifle or two -- maybe some day.  I have shot a .308 306 and 30-30 and they are fine if not too many rounds in a row.  I may be better with the .223, 9mm and .243 though if I have to do alot with it at once. 

More ammo it is. ( Unless the plumbing repair comes in low and the fall sales are realy good)

[mountainmoma]

And the PC is 2 lbs heavier than the SU.

2 lbs is alot percentage wise, when you are small and not young any more

[iam4liberty]

More ammo it is.

Good choice.  It is a lot easier than sneaking into Bermuda and "liberating" theirs.

[iam4liberty]

From Rural King this morning:

https://www.rkguns.com/ati-omni-hybrid-maxx-p3-m4-flat-top-223-5-56-semi-automatic-30rd-16-rifle-atigomx556p3.html?utm_medium=email&utm_source=email-2018-10-03-apx-fde&utm_campaign=apx-fde&utm_content=email-img-241270001&_bta_tid=33208716675476410911416005482001144989386162258768234562497566724520040627853449488941945677676829198953

[FreeLancer]

Never underestimate the manufacturer's ability to figure out ways to keep selling to people in California, as there are plenty of AR's (legally sold without bullet buttons for the time being) to be had at fair prices out here.

Now this kind of thing I don't really understand.........I've noticed that the high-dollar AR's frequently sell without the disabled pistol grip, so they look like the real deal, +/- the short 10-rd mag.  The catch is they have a fixed magazine that can't be dropped loose for reloading.  To reload, the upper is opened and the magazine is either toploaded in place or a new mag inserted.  I guess I can see why some would do it for the sake of appearances, but makes zero sense to me.  The bullet button was bad, and hard to reverse, this is worse and much less functional.



https://www.turners.com/lwrc-international/lwrc-ic-a5-556-nato-16-barrel-465904

[David in MN]

Have you Californians looked at the Troy line of pump action AR pattern rifles?

https://worldoftroy.com/product-category/sporting-rifles/

It does seem like a cool compromise. You get the familiarity of a pump shotgun but all the ergos and attachments of an AR. I know it's not a real AR like the rest of us get but a pump gun can run quick and you can get a groovy folding stock. It's more gun than your politicians would want you to have. Not cheap, not ideal. But legal (as far as I know).

[FreeLancer]

Have you Californians looked at the Troy line of pump action AR pattern rifles?

https://worldoftroy.com/product-category/sporting-rifles/

It does seem like a cool compromise. You get the familiarity of a pump shotgun but all the ergos and attachments of an AR. I know it's not a real AR like the rest of us get but a pump gun can run quick and you can get a groovy folding stock. It's more gun than your politicians would want you to have. Not cheap, not ideal. But legal (as far as I know).

I also have a Kel-Tec SU16CA, which is more fun to shoot California legal.  It's about the same cost as the above and takes AR mags, but lighter and handier.  For the hell of it, I also bought a Troy pump action AR, so I'd have something to shoot all my ammo if semiauto gets banned at some point.  It's handy, accurate, and allows the use of the AR pistol grip and controls, but almost twice as expensive.  Both of these weapons have a folding stock, so they can be stored more inconspicuously.

With this latest shooting and Gavin Newsom as Governor, I think California faces a real threat of a ban on sale of semiautomatic weapons. Gray Davis vetoed gun legislation Newsom thought didn’t go far enough.

[David in MN]

With this latest shooting and Gavin Newsom as Governor, I think California faces a real threat of a ban on sale of semiautomatic weapons. Gray Davis vetoed gun legislation Newsom thought didn’t go far enough.

  Missed that post. Just trying to pass on what I find.

Yeah, there's a lot of goofy thoughts when I talk to "non-gun" people. It's more cosmetics than function in my experience. My riot pump shotgun leads the pack of "most evil" though my Mosin Nagant has a bayonet (why is that scary?) and my AR is well an AR.

At some point you throw the hands up and realize there is no reality. My pump 12 is "deadlier" than my semi 12 skeet gun but both are outclassed by my AR because of capacity although my Mosin has a bayonet. And the gun I'd pick to be my one gun is a .308 bolt that looks innocent.

It's a mess. Banning 1870s technology seems like a dumb idea but...

[FreeLancer]

If I ever see one of the .308 Troy pumps down here I’ll probably buy one, too.  For whatever reason they don’t stock many down here.  People would rather buy a severely hobbled AR like the one I linked to a couple posts up.  Like with the gun banners, appearance means more than function, apparently.

[iam4liberty]

People would rather buy a severely hobbled AR like the one I linked to a couple posts up.  Like with the gun banners, appearance means more than function, apparently.

At our Appleseed KD shoot yesterday, one of the instructors requalified with a bolt action 223 scoring 49/50. Proves the point that it isnt the rifle that makes the rifleman. My hope is that the law craziness in California, Washington, etc encourages people in these states to learn and practice more.  It would be great to regularly see shoots of 100 plus people on the line to send a message that people wont be deterred from exercising their right.

[Alan Georges]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/democrats-plan-to-pursue-most-aggressive-gun-control-legislation-in-decades-1541791440

Sorry not to have a paywall-free version, but the headline and sub-title pretty much tell the story:

Democrats Plan to Pursue Most Aggressive Gun-Control Legislation in Decades
Focus spurred by an incoming class of lawmakers with ‘F’ NRA ratings who campaigned on the issue

As the label on this thread says: "The Window is about to CLOSE.  Get your guns and ammo NOW."  Yes, the Senate might block the House anti-gun bills, and the president might veto them as well.  But, well, you know.

[The Professor]

Just wanted to hop back into the thread post-election for some suggestions.

Well, I'm considering the window to be closing at this point.  With what's been happening and with the Democrats taking the House of Representatives, I'm going to suggest that we're going to see gun and ammo prices starting to climb.

Politicians are already starting to ring the Gun Ban Bell, but I doubt that any legislation will make it to the President's desk intact.  This is not, however, the deciding factor.  What concerns me is the perception by gun buyers that the future is being threatened. 

I don't foresee a major spike in prices, though, for at least another year.  What I think will happen is that Trump's hold on the White House will look more and more tenuous starting in late 2019.  That's when I expect to see the beginnings of concern in the gun-buying crowd start to manifest itself.  The conservatives will start to pound on the anti-gun issue when the liberals come out with the Presidential Candidate Line-ups.  I do expect the candidates on the lib side to be more openly anti-gun, though.  Many of the current names being bandied about are vehemently anti-gun.

Look for a major push in the 18-24 crowd for anti-gun agendas, especially if (when?) we have more school shootings in the next year or so.  I haven't seen the post-election breakdown of voter penetration in age groups or other demographics, yet, but I'm expecting to see close to record numbers in how many voted.

Again, I'm not saying any anti-gun legislation will succeed except, perhaps, on the State level. . .especially in California, Oregon and Washington.

My suggestion stays the same:  Get them while you can before the prices increase and stock starts to dwindle.

The Professor

[CarbideAndIron]

And for all of us here in WA, if you've been looking to upgrade your safe, do it before the new authoritarian legislation kicks in.

[cmxterra]

For me, I have been stocking up on subsonic ammo in the .22, .308 and 300BLK  I see those as being in short supply on a regular day. In most cases if S really does HTF that being as quiet as you can will be a bonus.


And yes.. I have a can.

[Alan Georges]

Another story, similar to the one from the WSJ:
https://www.apnews.com/0dcf52423856469fb57756324130b86e

[FreeLancer]

Fellow Californians, check out these upcoming specials from Turner's:  https://www.turners.com/info/p1cb9nmx8-1

$500 for an M&P15 Sport II is a better deal than what I paid last year.  I'm tempted to get another one.

Also, those rebate offers on ammo are at least as good as the sale prices I paid for the same brands at BulkAmmo.com a year ago.  Remember, we've got about 6 weeks before all ammo sales in the state will require a background check.  And nobody knows how the hell that's going to work, or how much it will cost.  Might as well stock up now

[David in MN]

Interesting vid about the top 5 CA compliant guns at Shot Show 2018. Quality is um... but the 5 guns actually interest me. The LiteFight(?) was actually something I might look into.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nE6h246-mlA

And of course I'm in love with Colt's new revolver. I'm a gunslut.

[FreeLancer]

Besides the Colt, I haven’t seen any of those guns down here. Although the Thordsen stocks shown on one of the AR options is quite popular for people retrofitting existing ARs to avoid registration. I did buy a Ruger GP100 in 10mm a couple months ago, but didn’t know about a Red Hawk in that caliber. 

[FreeLancer]

Fellow Californians, check out these upcoming specials from Turner's:  https://www.turners.com/info/p1cb9nmx8-1

$500 for an M&P15 Sport II is a better deal than what I paid last year.  I'm tempted to get another one.

Also, those rebate offers on ammo are at least as good as the sale prices I paid for the same brands at BulkAmmo.com a year ago.  Remember, we've got about 6 weeks before all ammo sales in the state will require a background check.  And nobody knows how the hell that's going to work, or how much it will cost.  Might as well stock up now

Better hurry on the ammo, California, the inventory won’t last thru Black Friday.  I went and maxed out the rebate on the Blazer Brass 9mm and decided that even without a rebate the sale price on the Federal .223 was competitive with what I paid for my current inventory, so picked up some of that as well.

They also confirmed that they have no idea how ammo sales will work when background checks start in January.  The state doesn’t have a plan in place and everyone is flying blind.

[David in MN]

Better hurry on the ammo, California, the inventory won’t last thru Black Friday.  I went and maxed out the rebate on the Blazer Brass 9mm and decided that even without a rebate the sale price on the Federal .223 was competitive with what I paid for my current inventory, so picked up some of that as well.

They also confirmed that they have no idea how ammo sales will work when background checks start in January.  The state doesn’t have a plan in place and everyone is flying blind.

Without being a jerk what (to a 4th grader like me) are the ammo laws going into effect? I realize CA residents are in an odd jam (I have family out there) but here they're giving away 5.56. My Fleet Farm is only a few miles from Federal's Anoka plant but I have on good authority from friends who work at both there is no weird deal. But between Federal and Winchester if you want cheap 55 grain ball I have recently seen it under $6/20. I know that's not a screaming deal to bulk buyers but it's far from a bad deal. I don't balk at those prices.

I'm seeing shortages on hunting rounds but it's that time of the year. I don't hunt but I might have to go get a tag so my brother in law can get more venison. Just the way the world works up here.

I don't know if it would help but the rumor is that some of the ammo companies are going to try to go straight to consumer with oddball rounds. I kvetched to a Federal employee that Cabelas only had Hornady in .338 Lapua and she told me this might be a change. Basically your sporting goods store wants to stock the big sellers and get the odd stuff off the shelves. If you think about supply chain it makes sense. If I'm Hornady I'm going to send 1 case of 6.5 Norma to a sporting goods store where it sits in inventory for 17 years? Both parties would logistically rather send 258 cases of 9mm and have it fly. So maybe there's an out for CA if the direct to consumer for "hunting rounds" comes about.

I'm also always interested in the three letters that evade almost all laws: LLC. You never know what that can do.

I'm personally interested because my .308 round is a Federal medium game round. If you do the ballistic tables it's awesome. It's a good long range round that they won't claim is an ideal self defense round. It's hard to find even here and my contacts can't get it for me easily. Cabelas had 1 box. Once off the beaten path it can be hard to find so I don't doubt ammo companies want to do direct to consumer. The .22, 5.56, .308, etc. are currency in my opinion. Leave a box at my gun club and it's gone. The Normas, Grendals, Lapuas, etc. play a different game.

I'm trying to help but feel I'm once again rambling...

[FreeLancer]

No online sales of ammo are allowed since 1/1/18, unless it’s shipped to an FFL who collects CA sales tax and whatever fee they think they can get away with.  Starting 1/1/19 all ammo sales require a background check, just like buying a firearm.  Problem is DOJ has no clear plan in place on how all that will be done.