Offline handsley

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The Survival Podcast

DATE:         April 4, 2012



Steven Harris returns to TSP for his 7th visit. Today he joins us to discuss various alternative energy technologies including, ethanol, bio diesel, methanol, propane  and more.

Steven Harris is a consultant and expert in the field of energy. He is the founder and CEO of Knowledge Publications, the largest energy only publishing company in the USA.

Mr. Harris came to his current position to do full time work on the development and implementation of hydrogen, biomass and solar related energy systems after spending 10 years in the Aero-Thermal Dynamics department of the Scientific Labs of Chrysler Corporation.

Steve is always full of great ideas, knowledge and projects we can use to improve our personal energy independence and today is no exception.  Once again we ate up the entire hour with out covering Steve’s entire outline so he will be back for Part 3 in this series soon.

Additional Resources for Today’s Show – Get info on all Steven’s Sites – This is for the small still, currently sold out.
The Three Book Deal Steven Put Together for TSP (remember MSB get an additional 15% off) -
Steve on Facebook -

“Revolution is You” by Gregg Yows

Members Support Brigade (MSB) -
TSP Gear Shop -
Join Our Forum -
Safecastle Royal -
Back Yard Food Production -



Jack Spirko: Hi, folks, this is Jack Spirko with another edition of the Survival Podcast. As always, one man's view of the changing world, the changing times and the things we can all do to live a better life if times get tough or even if they don't. Coming to you once again from Hot Springs Village, Arkansas, high atop the Highway 7 ridge line from TSPN. That's the Survival Podcast Network headquarters, a/k/a, The Ant Hill. Today is April the 4th, 2012, and this is Episode 873 of the Survival Podcast, and it is a Wednesday. We're on hump day on the way over. Got a great guest for you returning for his 7th appearance, Mr. Steven Harris, guru of all things. I shouldn't even say alternative energy, but guru of all things energy and home-brewed energy. I'm going to have him on in just a minute. Let's go ahead and take care of our sponsors first. Sponsor of the day number one, Your gun with no ammo is what? That's right. An overpriced club. That's all it is. You might as well have a baseball bat rather than a gun. I guess you could pawn it or hawk it or barter with it and give it away, but without ammo, it really doesn't serve you any purpose. And not only do you need enough ammo to use it, let's say, tomorrow if somebody kicked your door in. You need enough ammo to be able to train with it effectively to make sure that you're able to revert to your highest level of training in a crisis situation. Get on over to Bulk Ammo, you'll get incredible pricing, lightning fast shipping, and all the common calibers are sitting there waiting for you to buy from them. Check them out today. Remember, they do offer a special deal to Member's Support Brigade members. Before you buy from Bulk Ammo, if you're MSB, do check out the MSB first and see what kind of discount that they offer you. Next up today, Murs Radio. Now, what I love about Murs is, first of all, you can buy and use it out of the box without having to get a license or anything like that. Second of all, it gives you a really great high-quality level of communications in, let's say, a neighborhood-sized area, a mile or two, and it just works great. Five frequencies and five sub-frequencies. It's easy to find a frequency if there does happen to be another Murs user near you that they're not using so that you can keep your communications to yourself and not be interfered with by other people's communications. Then add to that you can get these motion detectors and you can put them out on your property and they'll send your handheld or your base station something that sounds kind of like this: "Alert Sector 1, Alert Sector 1" when it detects movement or heat where that detector is. This could be used to find out what's, I don't know, digging up stuff in your garden at night so you can put a bullet in it because that's what's about to happen at my place. I had something dig out a lavender plant last night. It looked like a person did it. I'm thinking it was a masked bandit raccoon. He might be raccoon stew if this keeps up, and Murs might help me get him. It would also let me know if somebody out there like a two-legged rat was walking around and I needed to know that as well. Murs secondary communication plus security, one package, awesome stuff. Check it out. Rob over there that runs Murs -- and it's There's a dash in there. And the best way to make sure you don't have to worry about that, go to Survival Podcast, click on the banner. Rob, who runs that company, he only has like a dozen products. If you don't know what you need, if you're not sure, pick the phone up and call Rob. He will get back to you. He may not get back to you during business hours because he also works a job. This is why I love what I do. I get to help small business people that are building something further for themselves at the same time they're working for somebody. He'll get back to you. He'll call you. He speaks English, right? He knows what he's doing and he will say here's what you need and this is what it does. Sometimes you might say, you know what, to increase your range, you might want an external antenna from the one you're going to keep in your vehicle. Here's where you can buy one. I don't sell that. This is the best price. Or he might say, you know what, for what you want to do, my equipment's not right for you. Here's where I think you should go. That's an honest businessperson. He's built a great business because of that. Check him out today, Next up, I want to thank everybody that e-mailed me yesterday. I couldn't get back to everybody because I'm stuck on my iPhone while I'm still trying to get my stuff fixed from Wild Blue, a listener out there that actually does contract work for Wild Blue or is a re-seller. I'm not sure. I'm going to find out more because he's really helped me out. Got somebody to come out there yesterday. The guy was there for like seven hours and couldn't fix the problem. It needs a different part. I don't know. He's coming back this afternoon, at least that's the story. We'll get my internet back. But I didn't have internet up. What everybody was getting in touch with me about yesterday was their concern for my family that was down in Dallas yesterday obviously my son, my wife's family basically and my son. The tornado that hit down there in the, let's say the Kennedale / South Mansfield / South Arlington area. Actually went right by everybody. In fact, if you actually were to look at a map of like where my sister-in-law lives, my other sister-in-law lives, my son lives, and my father-in-law lives, there's like this alley. The tornado literally went through that alley. It just missed them completely. The apartments down the street from where my son lives were just devastated and his were untouched. We had thought that his apartments were hit based on reports that came in from the area. It ended up being this other complex. He was actually paying for his vehicle tags, and he was in a really safe, big, heavy government building when the tornadoes were hitting. I guess paying your taxes in one instance actually paid off, at least for him. Thanks to everybody that asked. I didn't get back to you because it was just too many people to be trying to answer on an iPhone, and I was still getting information as this was going on. I mean, if you watched the Weather Channel or anything yesterday you know. Any folks down there in that area that were affected, man, our heart goes out to you. I think there's going to be a lot of relief effort in the area. The one thing about a big metro area like Dallas is unless you take everything out, there's plenty of people to move in and help once the stuff clears. I know for instance, my brother-in-law who is a police officer in Grand Prairie, pretty much spent the entire night working mutual aid calls with adjoining cities. There's a lot of support there. It doesn't look like it was anywhere near the devastation that occurred to places like, you know, Birmingham last year. It looked like we had a lot of touch-and-go action. The tornadoes were significant. There was footage many of you may have seen already where it hit a Flying J truck stop and a truck yard next to it. It was throwing tractor-trailers up into the air like toys. That was some pretty impressive evidence that there are some dangerous things out there. We need to be prepared as possible. Once again, I listened to the frickin newscasters telling everybody to go in their basement. I just want to scream, "No one in north Texas anyway that I know of has a frickin basement, you tools!" And then telling people, "If there's a tornado, get out of your car. Don't stay in your vehicle." Well, I guess if it's on a direct course for you and you can't get away, then maybe there's a building somewhere, but you know, what are you supposed to do? I think that we need better planning for what to do in the case of a tornado. I think the talking heads on the TV do a good job of warning us and telling us where it is coming, but telling people what to do I don't think is really a great idea. If you're mobile in your car and you can keep moving and you see a tornado moving a certain way and you can move the other way, stay in your car and do that. If it's coming down the road following the road like a train behind you and you're trying to outrun it, odds are you're not going to outrun it. You need to find some way to get out of the pathway. In that case, they're right. But in some other instances, what they say just doesn't make sense. When they advise people in mobile homes get out of your mobile home and go to a sturdy building. What if there's not a sturdy building around there? That means some of us need to think about putting in better tornado shelters, myself included. Every once in a while, nature gives us a wake-up call. Thank you all of you that inquired about what was going on and know that the reason I didn't get back yesterday was because I just didn't have the logistics. I was also concerned in making sure everybody was okay. Frankly, by the time I was sure everybody was okay, I had a couple drinks and took a nap on the couch. Because you get the adrenaline up, then when the adrenaline goes down, you're done. I know that goes long, but I just want to say that. Remember also you guys could connect to me on Facebook, YouTube and Twitter. Do that at the site. Member's Support Brigade, I'm not going to say much about that because Steven actually kind of really sold it harder than I ever do in the interview. I will just say about the Member's Support Brigade right now before we get into the interview, if you are military, law enforcement, or Peace Corps, active duty, prior service, please e-mail me before you join. First responders like fire and EMS, I do that discount for you guys as well. Just put something like service discount in your subject line and e-mail me, and I'll send you your special service discount. All right, with that, it gives me great pleasure this time to welcome back the guru of all things energy and becoming one of my good friends, Steven Harris. I want to tell you that in the first, I'd say, 10 to 15 minutes in this interview, you're going to hear him talk an awful lot about one of his products. Almost to the point where you might go, "this sounds a little infomercial-ish." You know, if you've listened to the show for a long time then you know I don't let that go on. If you're a new listener, just trust me, I don't let that go on. You might wonder why I would let Steve do this and it is because he's not really selling. He's just very excited about what he's put together. The other reason I'm willing to do this is because he's had this product with this little still that you can put on your table for a long time. It's a great product. I've used it myself. It works. When it first came out, it was at one level of performance and there were other things you needed to get for yourself and there were other hurdles to get over. Then he did things like brought the Zeolite to it, that actually lets you get the last bit of water out of the ethanol and makes it immediately usable as fuel in a vehicle. Then he's got something I'll let him talk about today that makes the whole process even easier. It reduces the amount of energy and work and time and inconvenience necessary to produce your own fuel. At this point, a person really can with nothing more than a few watts of electricity go find places like doughnut shops that are throwing away doughnuts or bread shops that are throwing away bread and use a five-gallon bucket and no heat source and turn out two gallons or four gallons. It depends on how many stills you want to run of fuel a week, for pennies on the dollar. That's why I'm going to let him spend a little bit more time on that. I just wanted to give some clarification on that. One final thing before I bring Steven on, at one point in the call, let's say about 15 minutes in I think, or maybe 10 minutes, you're going to hear distinctive change in the fidelity of Steve's voice. He'll still be very clear, very easy to understand, but he's going to go from, you know, that deep, good fidelity that you get on a good microphone to the less fidelity you get on a telephone. We had some kind of headache yesterday with his internet connection that he would be talking and saying, "Well, Jack, see what you do is you take the bucket and... then you... and you see." That just doesn't work. We stopped the call after several attempts to fix the problem and just brought him in by phone. You'll hear that point. Don't think anything's gone wrong with your speakers or anything. It was the best we could do under the circumstances. With that, again, I want to welcome back one of my good friends for his, I believe, 7th appearance, right, Steven?


Steven Harris: 7th appearance, an all-time record holder for TSP, isn't it?


Jack Spirko: Yeah, absolutely is. There's no doubt about that. We have left a little bit undone on ethanol in the last appearance, and we're going to go over a bunch of other alternative technologies that we didn't get to cover last time because we went like an hour and 20 minutes and still had a ton to go. Do you want to kind of recap some stuff for us?


Steven Harris: Yes, I will. My 6th appearance was supposed to be and is, where I'm dishing out everything all the forms of energy, of what works, and what doesn't work. It's a giant overview. My previous shows I've covered biomass. I covered gasification. I covered ethanol. I covered solar heat in detail. You can go to solar and get links to all of my previous shows. This is kind of like an overview, recap, and update. The last show, the 6th show, I covered solar heat, solar photovoltaic electric, biogas that makes methane, biomass gasification, which makes syngas, CO and H2. I covered ethanol, which I have a really neat update for you on now. I covered water power. Only form of water power in the entire world is a damn, okay? I covered microdams and microturbines. I covered wind energy in the last show, which is something you'll really want to listen to.


Jack Spirko: Very cool. We were chatting before you got started here. We were talking about some stuff with the ethanol that you mentioned. You've got some stuff that I actually consider like groundbreaking, maybe earth-shattering. Especially that it's going to be available to normal people like me.


Steven Harris: Yeah, I do. It's something that ADM, Archer Daniels Midland, Monsanto, and all the big boys had. They've had it for like five to ten years, but it wasn't available to you and me. Well, I have a little bit of a chemistry background. I have a little bit of a customer base. I'm sizable enough in the industry and I know what I'm talking about. I speak the language. I called up some of these places and I talked to them. I found the right guy. I found their expert on enzymes. I had a long conversation with him. He said, "Yeah. Sure, we'll supply this to you. We'd be happy to supply this to you." I have to buy it in decent-sized quantities but I am going to resell it. What it is called is simultaneous saccharification and fermentation. As a little bit of a recap for you, all ethanol, every bit of alcohol in ethanol is fermented from one thing, sugar. It's not fermented from corn, wheat, or flour. It's not fermented from that. It's fermented from sugar. You take your potatoes, corn, r wheat, doughnuts, waste bread, or flour that's no good and those are starches. Those are called polysaccharides. They're long chains of sugar. And what you do <audio cuts out> polysaccharides, simple sugars that the yeast will eat. This is the same type of sugar that you and I eat is monosaccharide. To do that, you had to do what was the cooking process. You had to mix up your mash, you know, take a drill and a bucket full of doughnuts with water and mix it up into a slurry. Then you had to cook it. You had to heat it up to about between 180 and 212 degrees Fahrenheit, and you had to add one enzyme at that temperature, stir it up, let it sit, let it cool down to 140 degrees (Fahrenheit). Then add a second enzyme, mix it up again, let it sit, cool it down to 85 degrees Fahrenheit, pitch in your yeast, and let it ferment. Well, it's also a lot of energy use. You have to heat the whole thing up to near boiling temperature. That's a big pot of mash and big heater like the one you used for cooking turkeys outside. That's a lot of propane, natural gas, or a lot of wood heat to get it up to boiling. You got to babysit the thing, make sure it doesn't get too hot and everything, pitch in the enzymes, and wait for it to cool down. It could take a while for something to cool down from 200 degrees (Fahrenheit) to 140 degrees (Fahrenheit). That is time you're babysitting and you're adding the other enzyme. Then you got to let it cool down again for 140 (degrees Fahrenheit) down to ambient, which might be overnight, before you add your yeast. Then you ferment the monosaccharides that were converted from starch over into ethanol. Then you're going to distill the ethanol out of the wash. Well, that is called saccharification. what I'm bringing to the table and I'm making available to everyone, but it's not out yet. Today is April 4th, 2012. You might be listening to this in a month from now or a decade from now. When you go to and there will be a link on and you see me mentioning and making something for sale called "Constellation SSF 020", that's it. What this is is simultaneous saccharification and fermentation. All you have to do is put all your doughnuts into a bucket, add water, take a big drill with a paint mixer on it, make a big slurry on it, make sure it's at 85 degrees Fahrenheit. Up here in the north we put like a brew belt on it to heat it up to 85 and keep it (there). Jack, where you are, you're just going to put it on your back porch.


Jack Spirko: It's a little cooler than that outside. I can probably paint it black.


Steven Harris: Yeah, exactly. Now you're going to add the constellation enzyme into the mixture at 85 degrees Fahrenheit and you're going to add your turbo yeast at the same time. Guys (this means), no cooking and no heating. You just add it at the same time and in two to three days you have the same result as you did with the cooking process. In two to three days you have what was doughnuts in water and instantaneously fermented into alcohol and in <inaudible> (two to three) days ready for distillation. That's the basics of it. I'm really trying to change this whole industry. I'm really trying to make it available for the little person, for you, to be able to get a waste source of energy as in two-day-old doughnuts. You see one-day-old doughnuts for sale. You never see two-day-old doughnuts for sale. Those get thrown in the trash. You can get farm bread, bread that goes to the store, then it goes to the outlet store. Well, what happens, it doesn't sell from the outlet store. Well, they sell it by the pickup truckload to feed the pigs. You can get this priced by the pound, so it's really great stuff. Because bread, flour, doughnuts, all the stuff is starch that will convert over with the Constellation SSF into a sugar. Now you can have really cheap fuel. Speaking of really cheap fuel, I have a way for you to get your fuel even cheaper. The thing I got to tell you about is I'm a member of this. It's called the Member's Support Brigade. It's from Jack at The Survival Podcast. It's packed full of discounts from all of his sponsors. Plus you get even more discounts from people like me. You get 15% off my stuff. I've used the discounts when ordering stuff. I got to order something, I check Jack's people. Yeah, they got what I want, I get the discount, I order it, and it works really good. Jack, tell me and the new people a little bit more about the MSB. Then I'll tell you what I'm going to offer.


Jack Spirko: Well, cool. I say it at the beginning of every show, but obviously what we have. Frankly, it's not all our sponsors. Most of our sponsors do a discount. In total, there's about 32 supporting vendors, including yourself, that do that. I'm always shaking people down for another discount. Can't wait to hear what I'm going to get from you this time. What it allows people to do is basically support the show at 20 cents an episode and save money. You've been supporting it for a long time. You give a discount off one of your websites. I think you're going to tell us that you have something back in stock and you're going to give us a discount on that in addition to a sale price or something like that?


Steven Harris: Yes, I definitely do. What I have is I have the ethanol stills coming back in stock next week. I am shipping positively next week. Everything is coming in by the pallet load. You can go to and buy the ethanol still right now. You're going to preorder it for a week and I ship it next week. You'll have it in about two or three weeks or less There will be links again, The MSB discount used to <inaudible> all my books and DVDs. On and now All my books and DVDs, all MSB members get 15 percent off all day long. I am going to, for this time only, I am going to let all the MSB people apply their 15 percent discount to the ethanol stills and the ethanol stills and packages.


Jack Spirko: Awesome.


Steven Harris: A still starts at $215 just for the still. With your MSB discount, you get $32 off right there. You're buying it for $182 plus shipping. I have a whole combo kit that includes the still, the distiller, the thing you put the mash into, plug into the wall, and alcohol comes out of. I got the alcohol measurement kit, so you can tell that I got 40% alcohol coming out at this time, I got 80% alcohol coming out at this time, I got 85% alcohol coming out a third distillation. I got the starter kit, Jack, which you have not seen yet. it's an 8-gallon plastic container with a lid and fermentation lock and a spigot at the bottom. You get plenty of room to put in all of your doughnuts or all of your sugar and your water and your yeast. It's got room to bubble up. That's new to the system, the complete starter kit. Plus I got the Bible of alcohol production. I got the book that -- you listened to a previous show, Jack dropped on to the desk with a "thud." It's (called) "Alcohol Can Be a Gas". I got the book and the DVD. That comes in the combo. It's 660 pages in the book, and the DVD is 3.5 hours. Plus the combo comes with the zeolite so you can get the last 10 percent of the water out of your alcohol so you can then mix that 50/50 with gasoline and put it into your car right now, any car, no flex fuel vehicle needed. Any car right now, 1983 or newer will run on alcohol and gasoline mixed 50/50.


Jack Spirko: About that drop book stuff. Here's that book again. <thud sound>


Steven Harris: <Steven laughs> Got to love it. That's one big book. It will stop a 9MM bullet.


Jack Spirko: I believe it.


Steven Harris: That's $415 for everything that I just mentioned, and that's a lot. That's a lot for $415. The MSB people, that's $62 off. That's about 350 plus shipping for the MSB people. You get your entire MSB first-year membership back instantly if you join it just to get the alcohol stuff from me. Then you can be making cheap fuel.


Jack Spirko: Awesome. The question everybody's wondering right now, when's it going to be, do you think, that you're going to have this new enzyme thing, this Constellation or whatever it was called?


Steven Harris: Probably about a month, just before summertime. Just when it's nice weather so you can put it out and let it work outside for you at the right temperature. It doesn't have to be 85 or stuck at 85 (degrees Fahrenheit). It just has to be 85 (degrees Fahrenheit) or warmer.


Jack Spirko: Okay, I got you.


Steven Harris: So in between 85 and 100 (degrees Fahrenheit) is just fine for it.

« Last Edit: August 10, 2013, 10:31:18 AM by Hootie »

Offline handsley

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« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2013, 08:53:28 AM »

Jack Spirko: You know, there's two things I want to say about this before we move on and cover all this other technology you're here to talk about today. Number one, I don't want people to discount the larger implications on bio fuel, of eliminating that energy input to the process. That's why I said, "I think it's earth-shattering." Now I've taken a major energy input and I've eliminated it. I haven't reduced it. I've eliminated. Maybe you said this, in some cooler climates maybe I have to warm it up but just time of the year of brewing 85 degrees is pretty easy to come by in most of the country. The other thing about this is when it comes to doing stuff in the summer. I don't do a lot of my beer brewing in the summer because standing over a pot of 180 degrees that I'm holding there for a mash period is not fun when it's 110 degrees out.


Steven Harris: I have just eliminated that completely.


Jack Spirko: I've eliminated the inconvenience, the sweating, and I've eliminated the energy input. I think it's huge that you've done that, Steve. I've never even heard of this before. Thanks for getting that information out there and getting a supply of the stuff.


Steven Harris: I'll get some down to you so you can do the same thing and tell the people about it.


Jack Spirko: Awesome. I'll tell you, the other thing is you mentioned Monsanto. If you're getting something that only they had access to and it does something good. That's two birds with one stone for me because they're my least favorite people in the world and I love to see good done. That's awesome.


Steven Harris: I'm really trying to bring it to you. I'm also the only person in the world right now that has a video that shows you how to get the last bit of water out of your alcohol with zeolite. Zeolite is like the little ceramic bead that absorbs water. You can only get 90% alcohol out of the still and you need 95 percent to mix completely with gasoline so it will run in your car. You throw in these beads of zeolite into your alcohol, it absorbs the water and then you pour the pure alcohol out and you mix it with gasoline. There's no instruction on the internet on how to use a molecular sieve called zeolite 3A, on how to do this with alcohol. It was only to the big boys. Let alone my video shows you then how to take those beads and regenerate them so you can use them over and over like a thousand times and how to do it safely. Because if you don't do it safely, you burn your house down. I'm the only person with a video that does that. I'm going to be bringing on the video with the Constellation SSF, and I'm the only person in the world with a video that shows you step-by-step how to do the saccharification of starches over to sugars and then ferment them and do the alcohol process. If you just want to know how to convert sugar over to alcohol and distill it into moonshine or fuel, you can go to right now. There will be a video at the top upper left, just click on it, and it will play. It's 23 minutes long. It's free. It will show you everything on fermenting your own wash and then distilling it. You'll see me mix it with gasoline. You'll see everything right there for nothing. That video, I just give away. That about wraps it up on alcohol. Again, the stills are available at They will be shipping in about one week. There will be links on I'm really trying to knock it out of the park for you guys with this because this is something you can make at home and put directly into your tank and drive on it without modifications. Really to tell those people who hate us who we buy oil from to go screw themselves.


Jack Spirko: We're not talking about making 100 gallons a week here or something like that. But your still which is a table top thing. It looks like a coffee maker. It plugs in and can run on a timer from Walmart, that costs a couple bucks can turn out a reasonable amount per week. Especially now that I don't have to sit there and boil all this stuff.


Steven Harris: That's the other thing I did with this little alcohol still. Like you said, it's the size of a coffee maker. It does one gallon of wash at a time. I'll show you how to automate it with a timer so you can set it before you go to work and let it run. When you come home from work, you can set it, let it run during the evening. You can set it before you go to bed. You can get -- you can be doing distillation three times a day for you with no input. Again, if you ever did alcohol distillation before you got to have one of those like tall columns that you see on TV and a big pot. You got to sit there and babysit it. You got to watch the temperature at the top of the column, make sure it's the right temperature, adjust the flame up and down. It's a pain. This little electric still with a timer just makes it easy. That's what I'm all about. I'm making it easy for you.


Jack Spirko: Before we move on because we are going to talk about all these other technologies here. What would you say is the reasonable output for one still a week? Not taking the fermentation into account once I have the wash, because I can get that going in batches, right?


Steven Harris: Right.


Jack Spirko: What can I do with one still a week?


Steven Harris: Gallons. A couple gallons, depending how fast you're running and everything else. The thing is the still's only $200. If you try to go and get a 2.5 inch column still, that's a tall one. It's only going to produce half a gallon or less an hour, maybe a quart an hour at 190 proof. That's going to be $650. For the price, you can get three of my stills for the price of those stills. Put them all on the same darn timer and let them run. You're producing 10 gallons a week right there. That's 10 gallons of your own fuel that you made in your house.


Jack Spirko: We did the math on the energy. It doesn't take very much energy.


Steven Harris: No. In fact, I'll show you where to buy sugar really cheap. They're called salvage grocery stores. You can get it less than 10 cents a pound. I got a customer that got 1900 pounds of sugar for $114. That's 155 gallons of 200 proof ethanol he got for $114 bucks. You throw on a little bit of money for the distillation, the electricity. You're talking $2 a gallon and less if you get your sugar at less than $0.10 a pound. Doughnuts are going to be even cheaper. You're looking at a $1 to a $1.50 for your own gallon of ethanol fuel that will run your car. Before you start yelling at me, "It's going to eat my fuel system" and all this. Look, this is stuff you drink. You drink it. It's not sulfuric acid. It doesn't eat your throat all the way down. You don't disappear from the inside out like a phaser blast. If it's not harming the tissue of your throat, then it's not going to harm the stainless steel and components in your fuel system.


Jack Spirko: Once we've done the whole thing with the zeolite and all. We can dump this straight into the gas tank. Do we run it straight? Do we run it with a mix of gasoline? What's the right ratio?


Steven Harris: The easiest way to do it, and I show it from the video. I'm revealing some of the secrets from the video because I love your people so much. Say you got 8 gallons of gasoline in your tank. You just go add 2 gallons of your own ethanol to it and just start driving. You don't have to mix it first and then pour it in.


Jack Spirko: I got you.


Steven Harris: Just make sure you got enough in your tank. Then you just pour it in the tank and away you go. It mixes absolutely instantly. It's called 'fully miscible'.


Jack Spirko: I'm looking for more of the ratio. How much gas I've got in and how much ethanol I would add. About a 4 to 1 ratio?


Steven Harris: No, you can do 1 to 1. You can go up to 1 to 1, but start with 4 to 1. Then go to 3 to 1, then go to 2 to 1.


Jack Spirko: See how it runs.


Steven Harris: Then go 1 to 1. If you have any problems of a stall, the sputters, or whatever. Then just put some more gasoline in and away you go.


Jack Spirko: Okay.


Steven Harris: It's really not rocket science. It used to be rocket science, but I'm making it kitchen science just for you.


Jack Spirko: Awesome. The still is awesome. It just sits there. I think anybody that walked in your house would figure you're making coffee or tea or something.


Steven Harris: Yeah, exactly.


Jack Spirko: Let's move on because we were going to cover a whole bunch of stuff here. Including what works, what doesn't work, and the insider's secrets. You worked at Chrysler in their hydrogen fuel program. You're also a chemist. You know some things that we generally don't hear about. One thing we skipped over last time is another type of alcohol called methanol. Tell us about methanol.


Steven Harris: Don't confuse the two, methanol and alcohol. Methanol is actually corrosive to aluminum. You have to have a special fuel system all the way through your car to run on methanol. It's kind of bypass. I got some good books on it. Methanol is also called wood alcohol. If you drink this alcohol, it's the one that makes you go blind. It's a simpler alcohol. It's a grade alcohol. It burns nice. It would be great fuel for the nation. It's actually more simple to manufacture on a petrochemical scale. It's poisonous to ingest it and it's poisonous if you spill large amounts on your skin. But guess what? So is gasoline. Gasoline contains benzene. Benzene is a huge carcinogen. You don't want to spill gasoline on yourself either. Handling methanol, no different than handling gasoline.Like I said, it's corrosive to some metals. You got to have a special fuel system. It's not really a fuel you can make at home. I actually have a book. I'll put a link to it on It talks about how you can distill methanol and other liquids out of wood. Wood, as in the stuff you cut down. You can get methanol out of it. You can get turpentine out of it and a whole family of stuff called terpenes come out of it, which can be a fuel. For looking forward for you guys, it can be synthesized. Methanol is pretty straightforward to synthesize. Not on a home scale but if you got really good chemical knowledge, it can be synthesized directly from the gases that are made from a gasifier. The previous show, I talked about the GEK gasifier from ALL Power Labs. It's the best gasifier on the planet. You throw in your wood or you throw in your biomass scraps and it 'combusts it', with a deficiency of air so it doesn't go full combustion. It produces carbon monoxide and hydrogen. This is called syngas. This is the building blocks for a lot of things in the petrochemical business. It can be made directly into methanol. There is potential for this in the future. There is the potential of using methanol in the future. If you hear something on the web about it or you get interested in it, it's not there yet for you. Your car can't really quite handle it. If someone is trying to sell you magic beans and a magic cure-all for your energy with methanol, don't buy it. It's not there for you yet. If you really want to know all about methanol, I have this entire book called 'Biomass and Methanol'. It's not a paint-by-numbers book. It's not a kindergarten book. It does cover the subject well. It's at USH2. I'll put it in our link in the show notes at That pretty much finishes off the subject of methanol and leads into another cool subject. Have you heard people putting like xylene and acetone into their fuel tank?


Jack Spirko: Yeah.


Steven Harris: They say "It has better fuel economy and everything".


Jack Spirko: I've heard that. I've heard these things you're supposed to put on. It's supposed to make hydrogen and cut your fuel usage.


Steven Harris: I'll cover that in a minute. But just the pills you put in your gas tank or adding xylene, you've heard of it? Anything you've heard about going to Home Depot and getting a gallon of xylene or acetone and you put two tablespoons of it into your fuel tank or whatever, it's all BS. There's more xylene in your gas... Gasoline is a mixture. It's a family of chemicals dominated by benzene. It's got all the other families in there including xylene. Your little teaspoon you're adding ain't doing nothing. It's nothing. There is nothing you can add to your fuel tank that is going to improve your fuel economy. The only thing you can add to your fuel tank is ethanol that you made yourself. That improves your fuel economy because you made it. You didn't have to go buy it.


Jack Spirko: You're burning it. It's not making your car useless gas. It's giving the car fuel.


Steven Harris: It's giving the car fuel, that's right. Anything dealing with magnets on your fuel line and anything with fuel line heaters where " we're going to keep your gasoline up before it goes into the car so it can atomize better" is  baloney and BS. If you really want, I'll tell you the secret. Do you know what an internal combustion engine is? It's the same thing as a cannon. Only the cannon throws its piston away every half cycle.


Jack Spirko: Correct.


Steven Harris: That's what your car is. It's a little itty-bitty cannon that goes off multiple times a second. All it's doing is squirting in fuel with air, compressing it, igniting it, and bam! Back goes down the piston. There's really not much magical stuff in there to make it go bang differently.


Jack Spirko: Just speaking as a former mechanic, when you squirt that gas in there and the sparkplug ignites it. It's going to burn at the temperature that gasoline burns at. The temperature it was at when it was ignited isn't going to reflect in the burn temperature at all.


Steven Harris: Right.


Jack Spirko: I've never seen gas burn cold. If I take gas that is at 30 degrees (fahrenheit) and dump it on myself and light myself on fire. It still hurts really bad.


Steven Harris: Whether you use gasoline that you are pouring on yourself is 100 degrees (fahrenheit) or 30 degrees (fahrenheit), it's going to hurt you real bad. You got any tornado vortex air spinners or anything that makes a twirl of your air... is it like Ok...


Jack Spirko: It says "vortex." It has to work. <laughs>


Steven Harris: <sighs> One, it's a restriction. You might as well put a sock in your air intake to make it harder for the air... The piston coming down is pulling air from the outside to the air inlet, to the air filter, all the way through the intake docks, all the way through the manifolds, and then by the valve and into the cylinder. Then the valve closes and the cylinder pushes it up. For one thing, if you think any vortex is making it through the valve closing the cylinder going up, you've got to be crazy.


Jack Spirko: Completely agree.


Steven Harris: It's not doing a damn thing except putting a restriction on your air intake and actually costing you fuel. That's completely out the window. I wanted to cover that.


Jack Spirko: I guess your theory is if I put a blower on a motor then I can increase horsepower. Of course, when I increase horsepower I increase fuel utilization. This is basically a horsepower restrictor. I believe we all have one of those. It's got five toes on it. It's called your right foot.


Steven Harris: Yeah, exactly. It's a long story and I'll cover a little bit on hydrogen, but if you really want to save fuel you put a block of wood underneath your gas pedal. Such that the furthest you can push your pedal down is so you go 65 (MPH) on a flat level highway. You can only accelerate as fast as your foot goes down against the block of wood. You can only drive 65 (MPH) on the highway because your foot can't push down any further on the block of wood. That will give you more fuel economy increase than you can possibly imagine because it's all in your foot. When I was at Chrysler and we had to do the EPA stuff. You know, the sticker on your window that says 18 miles a gallon? That rating actually came up a vehicle on a stationary dynamometer in a test cell. You had to do something called drive the line. There's this trace on a screen of acceleration and deceleration, and there was this box that follows the trace. And we had one guy who was a freak of nature in the entire company who would drive that trace because he could manage it and keep it right towards the lower end of that box the whole time.


Jack Spirko: Oh, wow.


Steven Harris: That would dictate the fuel economy that went on to the sticker for that vehicle.


Jack Spirko: That's how the city and highway (MPH). It's obviously not as much variation on the highway and they have a whole bunch of variation on the city.


Steven Harris: Exactly. We had a guy that had eye/foot coordination that was a freak of nature. He could drive that trace explicitly. That's how the EPA rating went. This really goes to show you, your fuel economy is dictated by your foot. If I take three Tornado Vortex spinners and I throw them into your air inlet. What I've done is I've basically put a sock in your air inlet and I've reduced the amount of air going into your cylinder. What happens, Jack, like you said with a blower. You increase the pressure, you can add more fuel, and you can go faster, right?


Jack Spirko: Correct.


Steven Harris: It would probably put a restriction on your air inlet. You get less air in so you can put less fuel into it because the O2 sensor will detect a change and automatically adjust the fuel-to-air ratio. You basically de-rated your engine so you can't drive as fast. It's just like you put the block of wood underneath your accelerator. You can't push down as fast. You can't put enough fuel into it. You don't start start hurting your fuel economy. It's all in your foot and people just don't get it.


Jack Spirko: On the efficiency thing, let's move on to your next thing. It's something I'm a big believer in. That is diesel.


Steven Harris: Diesel engines, I'm going to cover diesel engines in a little bit more detail but what I really want to cover in diesel engines, there's two ways to really run them. It's called waste vegetable oil and straight vegetable oil and biodiesel. There's two ways, but three words. Waste vegetable oil is the ugly, gooky stuff that comes out of the Chinese fryer restaurant with all the food particles burnt in it and everything else. This is waste vegetable oil. Once you take this and you run it through a bunch of filters... You want to filter it down to one micron because that gets everything out of it. Then you have a nice, clean oil. You don't want to screw up your fuel injectors on your diesel engine because those are almost as expensive as the engine itself. In fact, the fuel injectors is the reason the diesel engine works as good as it does. Once you filter your vegetable oil, it's now called straight vegetable oil or SVO. This will run in a diesel engine directly and it will run well. Not so much in the cold weather, but definitely in the warmer weather. In fact what you do, whether you're cold or warm, you start the truck on diesel, fill the switches in the cab so you turn off the diesel fuel, and then you run on the straight vegetable oil. Then when you stop, you turn off the vegetable oil, and you let it idle for a minute on diesel fuel before you shut it down. When you find really good people talking about straight vegetable oil on a diesel vehicle. Steve Harris is telling you this works. Make sure it's filtered down to one micron. Now we have something called biodiesel. What that is if you take your straight vegetable oil, you add methanol and you add lye, which is sodium hydroxide, and you mix it up in a big tank. Typically there are 110 gallon tanks or they're off the ground and they got a mixture in it. What happens is you get a separation of the glycerin and the rest of the process. You separate out the glycerin, sell it to someone who wants to make cosmetics or make soap or you mix it with water and pour it down the drain. What you have left over is called,  "biodiesel". This is called B100. B as in biodiesel and 100%. Sometimes you go to a gas station and it will say B5. What it means is it's 5% biodiesel and 95% diesel. You can run a straight biodiesel. You can mix it with diesel and any combination and you can run on it. Biodiesel runs good in the wintertime as well. If you're looking to make your own biodiesel, biodiesel works. It's called the methanol lye process or the methanol sodium hydroxide process. It involves glycerin separation. Typically a biodiesel plant, you can make it if you want out of five-gallon pails, but it's more economical to get something that's 110 or 300 gallons and do it all at once. Biodiesel vegetable oil, straight vegetable oil, or biodiesel; is a dirty, messy, and stinky process. You are going to get your hands dirty and your clothes soiled. You're going to be working with stuff that you just look at and you go "ick," it comes out of the fry bins. It stinks and it smells. If you can get a source of this waste vegetable oil from restaurants like places you go and the people you know and you get a good, constant stream of it coming towards you. You got a good source of biodiesel or straight vegetable oil, you're in the money. You're in the business. You will be driving cheap, and you can sell the excess to your friends at $0.50 less than the price of diesel right now, which is $4.40 here in Pennsylvania a gallon and away you go. But like I said...


Jack Spirko: What are your thoughts on commercial biodiesel. There's a pretty decent savings right there right now.


Steven Harris: No, they're not. The commercial biodiesel people are stupid. They're brain dead stupid. Instead of selling it for $0.25 less than the price of diesel, they go, "Oh, this is biodiesel. It's friendly for the environment. We're going to charge you $0.50 more so you can drive green." You idiots!


Jack Spirko: They're not doing that everywhere.  I just had a guy e-mail me that there's a place down in the Dallas area where he just filled up his truck with biodiesel for $0.50 less.


Steven Harris: There we go. One, he's in Texas. People in Texas are a little bit smarter. They don't have the regulations on them. My future energy stuff is all going to be in Texas because what you can do on your land what you want to on your land, you got less regulations, and less government in it. If someone is selling biodiesel for $0.50s less per gallon, God bless him. They just hooked themselves into a gold mine.


Jack Spirko: It's a great story, too. The guy's there filling up his truck and he sees this guy with a military truck and he walks over and starts talking to him. He's wearing a TSP shirt and it turned out they were both listeners to the show.


Steven Harris: <Laughter>


Jack Spirko: Our community is growing.


Steven Harris: If you really love the TSP, get the coffee mug and the T-shirt so you can hook up with your fellow TSP members around the world. That's pretty good, Jack. A guy walks across the road in Texas and meets another TSP listener.

« Last Edit: August 17, 2013, 06:52:06 AM by Hootie »

Offline handsley

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« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2013, 08:55:03 AM »
In three chunks.  Start at the bottom post, please


Jack Spirko: There's a lot of us out there. On the diesel thing, I think that we can produce the biodiesel for less than the petroleum-based diesel.


Steven Harris: Yes, you can because it's free. Your base component that you're getting it is free.


Jack Spirko: I mean to say commercially, we can do it. Just like you said up there, apparently they're not doing that. I was not aware of that.


Steven Harris: There's a couple of places here in Pennsylvania and Michigan that have biodiesel. They sell it at a premium. It's like, "My crap doesn't stink. My biodiesel is better than diesel, so I should charge more for it." It is like, you idiots. The big thing that makes up the price of biodiesel is the price of the methanol. You got to buy methanol. You got to buy it from a chemical supplier. Some people go down to the auto parts store and they buy Heet, The stuff that you pour into your fuel tank in case there's water that gets into it. You look on the back of it. It's straight methanol. You can make your first batch of biodiesel with that. It's a little expensive, but it's priceless once you've done it and go, "I understand it." That's priceless. Now you can go to a chemical supply house and you can buy it by the 55-gallon drum.


Jack Spirko: Sure.


Steven Harris: It could be anywhere from $3 to $6 per gallon. It was $6. Back in 2008 it was $6 or $6.50 a gallon for methanol. Now it's going to be cheaper because we're at a record low price for natural gas, which we'll talk about in a minute. That methanol is made from natural gas.


Jack Spirko: One thing I'd like to point out here that I think is a big deal is that part of what makes this work is the inherent efficiency of a diesel motor no matter what we do with it.


Steven Harris: The next line of my notes right here it says, "Diesel engines. My 8,000-pound Dodge diesel pickup getting 18 miles per gallon. Gets better fuel economy than a Toyota Prius."


Jack Spirko: Absolutely.


Steven Harris: I get 18 miles to the gallon. My truck weighs 8,000 pounds. The Prius gets about 47 or 50 miles to the gallon? It weighs 3,000 pounds. I get better fuel economy per pound than a Prius. Diesel engines hold the world record for mass-produced engines for efficiency. The newest diesel engines, like the newest Cummins from Dodge, the newest Vortex from Ford, and the newest engines from especially VW and Daimler. They're called high-pressure direct injection engines. They're literally shooting the fuel in there between 20,000 and 30,000 PSI. They have what's called a higher brake thermal efficiency. Which means they have a higher efficiency. They're more efficient than a proton exchange membrane fuel cell. If you say, "Hydrogen fuel cell is the future. They're so efficient. Blah, blah, blah." Guess what? Diesel engines, we make 10,000 of them a day just in a couple states around Michigan. Let alone the production per day around the globe, probably 100,000 of them per day. We make 100,000 of them per day, at least 100-horsepower to 200-horsepower each, and they have a higher thermal efficiency than a proton exchange membrane fuel cell.


Jack Spirko: I've always felt that way just straight up. I drive a Jetta diesel TDI . I don't drive it much anymore because I'm up in the hills now. I drove that in town down in Dallas all the time. I would tell people, you know, they would say what kind of mileage do you get? I would get 45, 44 or 45. I would talk to a guy with a Prius, and sometimes they would lie and say, "I'm getting 50."  I would say, "Not driving it the way I drive my car." I drove that car hard. I put that German engineering to the test in that car every day. It still was pulling off 40 to 44 miles to the gallon.


Steven Harris: Yeah, that's with your foot. Jack, just imagine you put a piece of wood underneath your accelerator. you'll get even better.


Jack Spirko: No. I think at 44 (miles per gallon) I'm doing my part for the environment.


Steven Harris: Yeah, exactly. Plus now you got performance, you got pulling power, you got speed, and you can go up a hill. The Volkswagen TDIs are just absolutely fabulous vehicles. This is from me being an engineer at Chrysler. I remember when I was at the Arizona Proving Grounds when Daimler was taking us over and we were renting the proving grounds to BMW. And BMW was there and we were talking about the merger and how pissed off we were. It wasn't a merger. They bought us out. I looked at the BMW guys and said, "You'll have to teach us how to swear in German so we can swear at the Daimler people." One of the German guys that didn't speak English too well, he goes"Swen? Swear? What is swear mean?" Then he says "Swen! Swen!" I forgot the guy's name, but he had a German name. He says, "I teach you how to swen to Daimler very good." They taught us how to swear in German for the Daimler guys really good. That about covers it for diesel. Great engines, 300,000 miles and they're just starting to get broken in. I got 287,000 miles on mine.


Jack Spirko: I look at it this way. If I turbocharge a gas motor its reliability goes down. If I turbocharge a diesel motor its reliability and longevity actually goes up.


Steven Harris: That has to do with the way the engine works because you can run a diesel engine lean. You always got to run a gasoline engine in a fuel-to-air ratio, unless you're running on hydrogen. If you're running gasoline or natural gas or propane, you got to run on a straight fuel-to-air ratio. The fuel is always dictated by how much air is in there. A diesel engine isn't. A diesel engine sucks in a full cylinder of air, no fuel, pushes the piston out, compresses it all the way to the top. The air temperature's 1500 to 1600 degrees Fahrenheit at the very top of the stroke. At the very top of the stroke, it squirts in as much diesel needed as you're demanding with your foot. Whether you're squirting in a mouse fart of diesel or you're squirting in enough diesel to fully burn. When that diesel hits that hot air, it will combust instantly. This is done at top dead center and it pushes the piston right back down. You can run lean on a diesel. You can't run lean on a gasoline engine. Which is called a stratified charge. A gasoline engine is a homogeneous charge. You've got a homogeneous mixture of air and fuel, and it always has to be that way. A diesel engine, it's called a stratified charge. That's how we get really great efficiency with hydrogen, which I'll cover after natural gas and propane. It's because hydrogen has a high fuel-to-air ratio and you can run really lean with hydrogen. That's why diesel engines are just so darn awesome. It's because not only the fuel is a lot simpler but it's the way the engine runs. Now, natural gas for cars... Are you ready?


Jack Spirko: Absolutely. You believe this is our future for cars, right?


Steven Harris: Natural gas is the future fuel for all of us. It is not only can you make natural gas, all of our landfills are making natural gas. You fart natural gas. When you fart it's natural gas coming out, CH4 methane. What stinks is hydrogen sulfide and some other things. Mercaptans and some other things what makes your farts stink. Natural gas has no odor to it. They have to add a mercaptan to it so it has an odor to it so you can detect it. Natural gas is in all of our oil wells. There's big reserves of it underneath. It's all over the ocean floor. It's called methane hydrate or methane clathrates. Remember the oil spill in the Gulf?


Jack Spirko: Yep.


Steven Harris: You put this great big top hat over it and the thing kept on floating up to the surface. It's because that was 5,000 feet down. At that temperature and pressure at the bottom of the ocean, methane becomes a solid. It becomes an ice. Sometimes it's called methane ice or natural gas ice. You can literally hold it in your hand down there. All this natural gas is coming out with the oil going into the top hat thing meant to plug it, and it's less dense than water. It was trying to float this whole thing up and I go how ironic. The fuel of our future is stopping us from plugging up the fuel of our current day that we're having a problem with in the Gulf of Mexico. I found that incredibly ironic. The oceans of the world, especially near the coast are just...You think there's natural gas under us and we're only 30% land mass. Think of all the natural gas under the ocean. It's in a format that's easier to get. It is in solids. Methane clathrates and methane hydrates, it's 10 to 100 times an amount more than we know about that we have here. And that's a fraction of what we don't know about. Natural gas is just a great fuel. It's made of one carbon and four hydrogens. Right now you can go to Brazil and you can buy a Fiat. I hate Fiats too. Especially now that they bought Chrysler. You can buy a Fiat in Brazil. We should have these things here. It's stupid that we don't. You can put any ratio of alcohol and gasoline in a liquid tank and it's got a natural gas tank that you can fill up too. The car will run off of the alcohol, the gasoline and the natural gas simultaneously. Or it will run off just the natural gas. Or it will run off just a liquid tank. It's any combination thereof. If you go to, I'll have a link at, you can see a map of the United States and all of the CNG fuel pumps across the country. If you look right now, do you know what the price of compressed natural gas equals to a gallon of gasoline in Oklahoma right now, Jack?


Jack Spirko: No idea.


Steven Harris: $0.75


Jack Spirko: Wow. <laughs>


Steven Harris: You can fill up in Oklahoma right now with a natural gas vehicle at the equivalent of buying gasoline at $0.75 a gallon. Today is April 3rd, year 2012. Right now on the commodities exchange, when I looked last week, natural gas was $2.28 a million BTUs, an MMBtu. That's a world-record low price. It was as high as $12 in the middle 2000s. When I started my gasification work in the '90s, it was $2.35. Take 15 years off for inflation, go from $2.35 to $2.28, you got the world's cheapest fuel right now is natural gas.


Jack Spirko: Unbelievable.


Steven Harris: Like I said, it's a million BTUs. $2.28 for a million BTUs. How many BTUs for a gallon of gasoline?


Jack Spirko: I don't know.


Steven Harris: 0.12


Jack Spirko: Wow.


Steven Harris: 12% of a MMBtu. It's like having $2.28 for the equivalent of 8 gallons of gasoline on the exchange market, right now. That's how good natural gas is. Our children, grandchildren will be driving on natural gas, let alone us driving on it. It's great. I'm also a huge believer of if you got natural gas at home and you're a prepper, you want an unlimited source of energy. If you don't live in California. You want to have a natural gas generator. Nevermind a regular generator or a diesel generator and storing diesel fuel. You know how hard it is to store gasoline. You got to put the additives with it. You got to keep it airtight, locked up, and keep the sunlight off of it. Even then it will break down over a couple years. It's hard to store enough fuel. If you got a natural gas line and generator, you have an infinite supply of fuel. Unless you're in California and there's an earthquake, they shut off the natural gas lines for obvious reasons. I've been through the blackout of 2003. I wrote a book on it. The natural gas never failed. The natural gas system is powered by natural gas, of all things. The pumps and the compressors, they're all self-powered. I asked a guy who worked for the natural gas company who had been there for 35 years. I said, "How long would it take for the natural gas system to fail if all the people in the planet just disappeared?" He goes, "Six months or more," okay.


Jack Spirko: Wow.


Steven Harris: With no one tending it. Like there's a plague or something, you'll still have all the natural gas to run a generator. You can buy natural gas whole-house generators at Lowe's, Home Depot, and Costco. Your local electrician will install it for you. You got to put a breaker box in. If you want just a generator that runs off of natural gas itself like a little Honda or Yamaha engine that is generator, is great company. I got no affiliation with them. They are just great people. I have natural gas generators from them. I'll put a link at If you go to, I'll put a link to my video of my natural gas generator running off of natural gas from a weather balloon floating above the generator. I got a 12 foot weather balloon above my head floating above me. I'm  starting and stopping my natural gas generator off of the natural gas up in the balloon. I filled it up with my line of natural gas in my shop. For your preppers at home, your infinite source of generator power is natural gas. Then your best source after that is diesel because diesel stores for an extremely long time.


Jack Spirko: I mean, on the storage life of natural gas, it's natural gas. It's pretty much infinite.


Steven Harris: It's forever. All the natural gas you're pulling out of the ground is tens and hundreds and millions of years old. I think if you put it into a tank or the line, it's going to stay CH4 for a little bit of time. <laughs> It's a tight molecule, not that easy to break apart. Diesel can run on natural gas or propane. In fact, there are performance kits out there for diesels right now that run off of propane. You can buy them off the shelf. What it is is for performance though. It make your diesel more powerful. If you keep your foot out of your carburetor you'll get good fuel economy, and you'll drive cheaper on propane with diesel. Great deal of diesel engines in garbage trucks, buses, and other trucks that cities have. They're diesel vehicles running on natural gas. What they are is that they run on about 5 % or 10% diesel. The rest of the fuel comes from natural gas tanks. A diesel engine can run on natural gas. You got to run 5 % or 10% diesel along with it. You have to have the seed tank to get the ignition and the natural gas comes in through the air intake.


Jack Spirko: Making normal vehicles run natural gas is really not difficult to do, right? Why do you think there hasn't been more use of natural gas?


Steven Harris: That's easy. Again, it's the same thing with alcohol and the same thing with hydrogen. You run into the chicken or the egg prospect, which one comes first. Do you have to have bunch of vehicles that runs off natural gas, in order to get a bunch of fuel pumps out there to supply natural gas? Or do  you have to have a bunch of fuel pumps out there so the industry will start making natural gas vehicles? That's one of the reasons. The other reason was natural gas is fluffy. It takes up a lot more space. If you got a gas tank that holds 27 gallons of gasoline and you take out that gasoline tank and you replace it with natural gas tanks and you're going to compress those natural gas tanks up to 3,000 psi. You're going to have the equivalent of 9 gallons of gasoline. It's called GGE, gallons of gasoline equivalent. You'll have 9 GGE of natural gas in there where you had 27. If you could drive 600 miles, you can now drive 200 miles. People didn't like that. Didn't like having only a natural gas vehicle. Plus there was a big push to do this. They did this all during the late '80s and early '90s. A lot of electric and utility companies went over to natural gas and people complained, "Oh, it doesn't have the horsepower." They thought it wasn't as powerful as your gasoline vehicle and it's not. It's about 80% of the power of a gasoline vehicle because it's going in pretty fluffy. One, you're squirting in liquid fuel. The other one, you're bringing in a gaseous fuel. It's not as dense. Some people complained about that. It's like, "Oh, I got to have my horsepower. I don't want to have natural gas." They didn't have the idea of, I'm paying $4 a gallon for gasoline now and natural gas is $0.75.


Jack Spirko: Do you think the energy companies have anything to do with it as well? Because I've seen recently some companies reducing their exploration in natural gas and increasing it in petroleum fuels specifically because they make more money pumping oil than gas.


Steven Harris: Natural gas is burnt off. It's called stranded natural gas.


Jack Spirko: Yeah.


Steven Harris: There's so much stranded natural gas coming out of wells, that they don't have the pipelines to get it to market. They'd get it to market if they could but they can't, so they have to flare it off. It's a waste byproduct. They keep oil and they don't keep the gas. No, the big boys have nothing to do with it. I worked in the higher echelons of the automobile industry. I don't believe in this conspiracy stuff at all, between any of the companies. I just believe in the stupidity of all the big companies and all of us.


Jack Spirko: Let me bring up a famous quote there, "Never attribute to malice, that which can be explained through incompetencies and idiocy."


Steven Harris: Exactly, great quote. Who said that?


Jack Spirko: I don't know, but whoever they are I love them. It's an old quote that's been around forever.


Steven Harris: It's just so true. It's just stupidity. The president of Chrysler, not Iaccoca, he went to GM. He is at the tip of my tongue. Great guy, I love him. He was being asked by the media in the 1990s why doesn't Chrysler make an electric vehicle? He goes, "Oh, Chrysler can make an electric vehicle. I guarantee it. We can make the world's greatest electric vehicle that there is. It's just that we're going to sell our electric vehicle like Mattel sells their cars, batteries not included."


Jack Spirko: Yeah.


Steven Harris: We're in the business of making cars. Not in the business of developing battery technology or manufacturing battery technology or implementing battery technology.


Jack Spirko: I got your source on this. It was a guy named Robert J. Hanlon of Scranton, Pennsylvania. who was inspired by Occam's razor. He coined this and it's called Hanlon's razor. The exact quote is, "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."


Steven Harris: Yep, there you go. You know what, Jack? You know what you and I are all about, really? One of the things that makes this show really good? It is we try to eliminate or remove as much ignorance or stupidity that there is in our audience. Both you and I try to bring things to the people that are hands-on. This is the way it works, this is how you use it, and this is what you can do.


Jack Spirko: Absolutely. This is why it's not working now, this is what could be done to fix it ,or in some cases it's pie in the sky crap and it ain't never going to work.


Steven Harris: Exactly. That's one of the reasons I love your audience. They respond so good. They just eat it up. It's like I didn't hear about this, now I know and now I can do it. That's one of the things we all should do to better our society is we give of ourselves to educate someone else. Even if you're talking to a five-year-old kid. I was talking to some teenager the other day. I asked, "What type of job are you looking for?" They said, "I want to do this, I want to do this." I told him don't think of just in terms of what type of job you want to have or who you want to work for. I want you to think about what type of business you're going to create.


Jack Spirko: Absolutely.


Steven Harris: Start thinking about that. Start thinking about being independent. Sure, work for everyone you can. You learn so much. But then keep on taking all that knowledge and putting it and make something. Start your own business, one step at a time.


Jack Spirko: Absolutely.


Steven Harris: Anyway, back to the subject of natural gas. The tank pressures are increasing. Right now, 5,000 psi tanks are off-the-shelf. It used to be 3,000 psi was the standard. Then it was the 3600 psi. Now 5,000 psi tanks are available. We're getting up towards being one-third to one-half the energy density of gasoline. Now, 10,000 psi tanks are available. They have to be special-ordered, but linking composites will whined a carbon fiber tank for you at 10,000 psi. Natural gas of 10,000 psi is the same amount of energy per unit of space as gasoline is. If you can go 600 miles on a gasoline car, you'd be able to go 600 miles on a natural gas car if the tank is at 10,000 psi. The thing is a 10,000 psi compressor right now is not an off-the-shelf item. It would cost $100,000 or more. That's what really limits you from being able to fueling up at home right now off of natural gas. We can do the conversion. If we get a tank for maybe a $1,000 or more and maybe $500 in parts and your car can run off of gasoline and natural gas, either/or at the same time. I can show you how to do it. The hard thing is that you need at least a $4,000 compressor to compress the natural gas from your line pressure up that of your car. That's buying a scuba compressor and that's a cheap one. $8,000 is a good one. If you want one that you can rebuild when it wears out, you've got to buy one that's big enough for a small fleet of 10 or 15 vehicles. That's costing you $15,000. There was a company called FuelMaker that had this little compressor that sat on the wall, and it would slowly compress up your vehicle overnight. And it costs like $6,000. After 4,000 hours it turns itself off forever. It literally killed itself so it can never run again because it was considered disposable. They went out of business. They had a good product even though it was expensive and they went out of business. If you're listening to Steve Harris right now, you've got a good compressor, you know how to make a 3,000 or 5,000 psi compressor. If you think you can make it cheaper and you can bring it to market with your machine shop. I'll distribute it. I can distribute the thing all day long. There's an opportunity for anyone listening go to There will be a link on You get my e-mail and you can e-mail me and say, "Hey, I can make compressors." Okay, I'll distribute them for you. Then we can start getting more and more people hooked on natural gas like we're getting them hooked on ethanol right now.


Jack Spirko: I think we pretty well clobbered the natural gas area. The next thing on your list is propane.


Steven Harris: The next thing is propane. Believe me, I could talk for another hour on natural gas. Vehicles run on propane very well. Just look at any forklift. Almost any forklift runs on electricity or it runs on propane. There's a huge amount of items on the market for running engines off of propane. Coincidentally the same things also work pretty good for natural gas. Look at the life of a forklift engine. Engines that run on natural gas or propane have a great life. The fuel burns so pure. The oil hardly gets contaminated. There's very little wear on it. And so these engines just go forever. You can go to e-bay, you can type in "propane carburetor", "propane regulator" or "forklift propane." You can see all the parts that you can use to run your vehicle off of propane. IMPCO is a big manufacturer of these parts. There's no timing changes needed on propane. You got to do a little bit of a timing change on natural gas for your vehicle to run off of it. Propane runs like gasoline, 15 degrees (Fahrenheit) or 12 degrees (Fahrenheit) being top dead center. A great deal of vehicles in Australia run on propane. People from the land of Aus write to me and say, "My car runs on propane right now and everything else." Now, technically to run on propane... I've put propane tanks, 100-pound propane tanks on the back of my pickup truck, my diesel. I've run the propane into my diesel engine at the same time. I had my own Steve Harris controller to do it. Technically, you got to have a separate tank that a Department of Transportation rated, DOT tank rated, to hold propane. They make them and sell them out there, you can find them. You're supposed to pay your road tax, Jack, if you're running on propane. If I go down to a propane station, of which there's one around me, I'm actually taxed on that propane as if I'm taxed on gasoline for the road fuel. If you're in the country, you got what's called a 500 gallon or 1,000-gallon pig. You know what one of those are, Jack?


Jack Spirko: I know exactly what that is, yeah.


Steven Harris: It's the big white tank sitting outside of your house. If you got one of those at your home, you might consider running off of propane because you're buying that propane pretty cheaply. Especially when you buy it in the summertime. Tou can fill up your propane tank in your vehicle off of your pig. You can probably drive anywhere between a $1.25 and $2.50 a gallon gas equivalent off of your propane from your propane pig.


Jack Spirko: Wow.


Steven Harris: In the city, I wouldn't run off of propane because I don't have a supply of it. If you got a 500 gallon or 1,000 gallon pig for your furnace or your stove. You got a bulk supply being delivered to you on a regular basis at a pretty darn good price.


Jack Spirko: Awesome stuff,


Steven Harris: Propane's not as economical as natural gas. Natural gas is still cheaper, but the thing is that people don't understand is propane is a liquid under pressure. I could get natural gas at 35,000 psi, it is still a gas. You take propane up to about 250 (psi), and it becomes liquid. That's at 100 degrees Fahrenheit. It becomes liquid at 85 degrees Fahrenheit, at about 150 (psi). Just a little bit of pressure and it goes into a liquid. Liquid has a lot more energy density to it than gas does.


Jack Spirko: Got you.


Steven Harris: Again, no computer changes. You just need to have a good source of propane. You got a propane pig and you can do it. It's more economical than gasoline. It's something that you can do.


Jack Spirko: Awesome. Once again, we've eaten up like more time than we usually allocate. I think we're going to have to wrap here. I'm going to have to bring you back to talk about hydrogen and some other things in the future if you're willing to do that.


Steven Harris: Yeah, I'll come back for my 8th appearance. I'll talk all about hydrogen, fuel cells, fuel cell cars, and fuel cells in your home. What works, what doesn't work, and what you can expect to see in the future. You can go, " Yeah, this will work for me and yeah, it won't work for me." I will debunk all the stuff for hydrogen. Let me just have one word before we go and before we stop. Anything regarding hydrogen that's under hood, you're pouring water into it, anything called HHO, OOH, and hydroxy it's all BS. It's all magic beans. Stay away from it like the plague. I know you're looking for stuff to save fuel because it's $4 a gallon. I'll talk about it in detail. Jack will have me on as soon as he can, and we'll go over hydrogen in detail. The word to the wise right now is stay away from anything that's claiming to give you a fuel economy increase that has anything to do with hydrogen. Because until I get into the subject with you, you're going to be throwing your money away. With that, I'm so happy to be here. I really love bringing this stuff to you. Again, I really love helping you in bringing up your level of information and giving you the best information that I can. All the show notes are at Links to everything I talked about will be at Don't forget the ethanol. The distiller is available now. Go to, linked at the TSP MSB 15 % discount applies.


Jack Spirko: How long is that going to apply for folks that might be listening in the future? I know you can't just keep doing that. You do it on your books and DVDs because the margins there make it more possible to do. On this it's more of a mechanical AND physical product. More cost on your end. How long are you going to go with that?


Steven Harris: I'll see it until Cinco de Mayo, May 5th.


Jack Spirko: Until the 5th of May you have to take up that offer on the distillation kit. I can't wait to get my hands on that new enzyme thing that you have. I really look forward to making some alcohol fuel without having to fire up the propane burner for a change.


Steven Harris: Yeah. Who knows, Jack, you might make a good beer too.


Jack Spirko: I don't know. We'll have to check that out and see if it creates any kind of off flavors or anything, doing things differently. I'm not sure. We'll give it a whirl and see what it does, man. Hey man, thanks for being back on the show.


Steven Harris: Thanks for having me. Really, it's a treat. It's a pleasure to talk with TSP all the time.


Jack Spirko: Awesome. Folks, with that, this has been Jack Spirko along with Steven Harris helping you figure out how to live that better life when times get tough or even if they don't.

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« Last Edit: August 19, 2013, 07:22:15 PM by Hootie »