Author Topic: satellite internet ?  (Read 6239 times)

Offline surfivor

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satellite internet ?
« on: August 22, 2017, 11:56:33 AM »
 
 My contract may convert to a full time position, so things may turn out to be more long term and stable. I have been working from home using my mother's internet thus far. I wonder if satellite internet would be something I could use from either my house, an RV, or from my BOL ? I would still work from my mother's house much of the time, but if I could set up a dish anywhere and work from there, it would have many advantages.

 The way I work I basically ssh into a remote server through 3 or so terminals connections. I think satellite has slower upload times but the stuff I do I would imagine it would work. I use a virtual linux machine running on my windows laptop

 I do also mount a remote filesystem using linux sshfs utility. I just use that so I can run the sublime text editor. Most of the files I would access are text files but I am not sure what else the mount does.

 If the satellite internet makes sense, then I could go buy another truck camper to put on my truck. I could work remotely up at the beach and hit the surf in the evening or head up to my BOL on Thursday instead of Friday, come back on Tuesday etc ..

The only 2 providers are hughsnet and excede. Excede seems to have lower bandwidth after you hit the 50 gig limit etc, hughsnet may just run out? Any info or experience with satellite internet ?

 I would have to use battery power of some kind from the BOL as there is no electricity there. I also assume the satellite dish is very portable as I would want to be able to just pack it up and go or set it up at my house

http://www.reviews.org/internet-service/best-satellite-internet-providers/

http://directexede.com/?id=3&kbid=90583


==========

http://www.admin-magazine.com/HPC/Articles/Sharing-Data-with-SSHFS

"SSHFS is a FUSE-based userspace client that mounts and interacts with a remote filesystem as though the filesystem were local (i.e., shared storage). It uses SSH as the underlying protocol and SFTP as the transfer protocol, so it’s as secure as SFTP. (I’m not a security expert, so I can’t comment on the security of SSH.) SSHFS can be very handy when working with remote filesystems, especially if you only have SSH access to the remote system. "

Offline archer

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Re: satellite internet ?
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2017, 12:44:21 PM »
i'd screen on your remote ssh connections so if your 'net drops out, you wont loose what you are doing..
sorry, not tried satellite 'net yet..

Offline surfivor

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Re: satellite internet ?
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2017, 12:57:39 PM »
i'd screen on your remote ssh connections so if your 'net drops out, you wont loose what you are doing..
sorry, not tried satellite 'net yet..

 I work over my mother's wifi .. sometimes the connection drops and I have to restart the virtual machine because sshfs goes into a weird state.

 I did find this, but mosh-server has to be installed on the host and sshfs won't work over that. I just installed it but it errors out since the host is not set up. Besides the sshfs it may work for some shells

https://mosh.org/

Mosh
(mobile shell)

Remote terminal application that allows roaming, supports intermittent connectivity, and provides intelligent local echo and line editing of user keystrokes.

Mosh is a replacement for SSH. It's more robust and responsive, especially over Wi-Fi, cellular, and long-distance links.

==================

Here's a camper I like, it's base weight is 1,095 pounds.
It's not a popup, but is 250 miles away from where I live



https://www.rvtrader.com/dealers/Indian-Valley-Camping-Center-704003/listing/2016-Travel-Lite-Super-Lite-690FD-115437937


Offline Smurf Hunter

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Re: satellite internet ?
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2017, 01:22:29 PM »
latency - satellite has high latency.

This matters a lot if you want to do things like video conferencing or other real-time activities. 
Bandwidth may be on par with other internet options, but it's the delay between RX and TX that may bite you.

That might get annoying with remote filesystems in some cases. 

Offline surfivor

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Re: satellite internet ?
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2017, 01:46:58 PM »
latency - satellite has high latency.


That might get annoying with remote filesystems in some cases.

 I think the sublime editor stays open on the file that is open ok even when the connection is flaky, but I could try some experiments with it. Since the files are just text files, I would guess when I hit control-s to save, if it takes a little longer I won't notice a whole lot and all my edit keystrokes are buffered on my machine until I do a save ..

 I only use the sshfs file system for editing files with my text editor. All other processing occurs on the server or through a terminal over ssh terminal.

 I use a web brower locally to access an http server running on the remote host, it is through an ssh tunnel. There are sometimes ajax requests running or open web sockets but they are not super data intensive most of the time. Sometimes I do test a file upload but not huge files


« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 02:11:17 PM by surfivor »

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: satellite internet ?
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2017, 02:12:45 PM »
Typically, cellular access is now more stable and less expensive than satellite.  You could buy an inexpensive prepaid mobile hot spot on one the major carriers (Verizon, at&t, Sprint) and test it for functionality where you plan to be. 

Offline Smurf Hunter

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Re: satellite internet ?
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2017, 02:17:19 PM »
I think the sublime editor stays open on the file that is open ok even when the connection is flaky, but I could try some experiments with it. Since the files are just text files, I would guess when I hit control-s to save, if it takes a little longer I won't notice a whole lot and all my edit keystrokes are buffered on my machine until I do a save ..

 I only use the sshfs file system for editing files with my text editor. All other processing occurs on the server or through a terminal over ssh terminal.

 I use a web brower locally to access an http server running on the remote host, it is through an ssh tunnel. There are sometimes ajax requests running or open web sockets but they are not super data intensive most of the time. Sometimes I do test a file upload but not huge files

No version control system? Is this some small time project for folks without development backgrounds?
Normally you can checkout the source code, compile and run it without internet (e.g. airplane) and you only need a connection to check-in/commit the code.

AJAX, or asynch javascript from your browser can get screwy.  When I've had complex VPN tunnels to reach test environments, you can get all manner of weird behavior, possibly even race conditions. 
Think of website that's dynamically fill in search results as they come back from the server.  Maybe that's an opportunity to harden your client side code.

Also things like autocomplete from serverside logic would might be affected.

Offline surfivor

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Re: satellite internet ?
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2017, 02:38:37 PM »
Quote
No version control system? Is this some small time project for folks without development backgrounds?
Normally you can checkout the source code, compile and run it without internet (e.g. airplane) and you only need a connection to check-in/commit the code.

 git is used but the source code is actually on the server so I just edit it through sshfs. None of the code is on my machine. I don't need git on my side.

I mount it like so so that my directory /home/self/sshfs-dir/ maps to the remote directory /opt/dev_dir

sshfs myself@5.15.94.193:/opt/dev_dir /home/self/sshfs-dir/


Quote
AJAX, or asynch javascript from your browser can get screwy.  When I've had complex VPN tunnels to reach test environments, you can get all manner of weird behavior, possibly even race conditions.
Think of website that's dynamically fill in search results as they come back from the server.  Maybe that's an opportunity to harden your client side code.


 I don't know that there is a vpn, I just log in through ssh.

The tunnel is used so that a port such as 3000 appears like a local port ..

so if I do this:
ssh -L 3000:localhost:3000 myself@5.15.94.193

 then if I launch google chrome on my machine and point it to localhost:3000 it actually goes to port 3000 on the remote machine even though it thinks it is a local port

Typically, cellular access is now more stable and less expensive than satellite.  You could buy an inexpensive prepaid mobile hot spot on one the major carriers (Verizon, at&t, Sprint) and test it for functionality where you plan to be.

 What kind of bandwidth I wonder ? I buy 4 gig for 2 months for $40 from straight talk but that wouldn't be enough to work over. My BOL probably is going to be worse since coverage there is spotty but it might work from other places

 Is there an easy way for me to figure out how much bandwidth I am using on a particular day from my mother's wifi ? hughs satellite seems to limit you to 50 gig per month

Some indications are that 4G LTE cellular are between 5-12 Mbps .. excede satellite says 12 mbps and hughs says 25 mbps and both of those say 3 mbsp upload
« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 02:52:52 PM by surfivor »

Offline Carl

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Re: satellite internet ?
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2017, 02:53:33 PM »
  You will be better off with a cellular hotspot in my opinion. I have used Hughes and I don't now.

Offline surfivor

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Re: satellite internet ?
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2017, 03:07:12 PM »

It looks like AT&T 4G hotspot is the most popular

It looks like you can do something like:
    25GB for $60/month
    50GB for $100/month

 I could start with that. If I really wanted to try satellite at my BOL where cellular might be weaker plus maybe it would be faster than cellular I could consider that some other time ..

 Do they sell AT&T hotspots at wallmart or target ?

Offline Hurricane

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Re: satellite internet ?
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2017, 04:18:20 PM »
A lot of satellite internet is sat download, phone line or cable upload. Two-way sat is a higher equipment cost, but if that's what you need . . .

Offline scoob

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Re: satellite internet ?
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2017, 09:42:33 PM »
Last time I looked into satellite Internet, it was 100% fixed location, and had to be installed by a fcc-certified tech.  It's been a few years since I checked into it though. 
There are very few options for Internet where I live.  Cellular, dsl, and cable are not on that list.  Not one neighbor is happy with their satellite internet around here. 
We have a service that's powered by Bluemesh, which is a wireless p2p repeater system that comes in POE from our outdoor transceiver.  Seems it might be unique to our area though.

Offline Cedar

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Re: satellite internet ?
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2017, 08:31:41 AM »
Typically, cellular access is now more stable and less expensive than satellite.  You could buy an inexpensive prepaid mobile hot spot on one the major carriers (Verizon, at&t, Sprint) and test it for functionality where you plan to be.

This is what I was wondering. My friends in the bush in Canada used satellite for internet connection, but they had no other choice I think. It is expensive from what I heard,can they were not entirely happy with it.

How mobile are you going to be? I have gotten pretty good at scamming internet from somewhere if I need to be on it. Fast food places, cafes, casinos. In Canada I could even plug into outside parking lot electrical outlets with my laptop through the truck window. Starbucks, and other places. Sometimes you can find a house which has unsecured internet.

When I was traveling back and forth to Canada for months every two weeks, email was the only way I could communicate with people, like my mom, as I did not have a clue, so it was important to find net connection.

If you are just at your mom's, won't wifi reach out to your camper? I have found that living in the trailer and using cell to read the news or coming into TSP that the metal sides of the trailer do dampen cell strength.

Cedar

Offline surfivor

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Re: satellite internet ?
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2017, 09:09:53 AM »
How mobile are you going to be? I have gotten pretty good at scamming internet from somewhere if I need to be on it. Fast food places, cafes, casinos. In Canada I could even plug into outside parking lot electrical outlets with my laptop through the truck window. Starbucks, and other places. Sometimes you can find a house which has unsecured internet.

 I need the convenience of being able to work out of a truck camper or from my house. I work all day online. It's nice to be able to take a break, cook some lunch, do whatever. I don't want to run in and out of libraries any more than I have to. If there is going to be major hurricane surf on say a Friday, maybe I would go to the beach Thursday night and camp, then work from the camper and surf Friday evening otherwise I would never make it there with traffic and limited time before dark. It also means surfing in colder weather because I can change out of a wet suit in a heated camper. I could go see some bands to at places near the beach more easily.


Quote
If you are just at your mom's, won't wifi reach out to your camper? I have found that living in the trailer and using cell to read the news or coming into TSP that the metal sides of the trailer do dampen cell strength.

The beach areas that I mentioned are 50 miles or so from my mother's house and some areas of southern Maine are further than that. My house is 7 miles or so from her house and I want to be able to work from there also but sometimes I will still work from her house. I just want more added flexibility. If I am sick or whatever; maybe I want to work in the garden a little at lunch, then I want to be able to work from my house on those days. I may also want to run automated test jobs while I am sleeping at night to be more productive



« Last Edit: August 23, 2017, 09:28:56 AM by surfivor »

Offline Carl

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Re: satellite internet ?
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2017, 09:24:51 AM »
  Plan on a second job to be able to pay for the equipment rental and bandwidth.

Offline Zef_66

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Re: satellite internet ?
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2017, 10:39:19 AM »
We have satellite internet, so hopefully I can clear some things up. The choice is between Hughesnet and Exede as you mentioned. We chose Hughesnet because of the cheaper overall costs and faster advertised speeds. So far, we have had a good experience. The service is okay. Not good, not great. Just okay. Okay get satellite if you have no other choice. As mentioned, if you have cell phone service, a mobile hot spot is going to be faster and cheaper. We don't have cell service. Nor DSL, cable, etc. Our only, only option for internet is satellite. In this case, something is better than nothing.

With that said, it works okay. We are a family of five. We don't have any other TV service. So we stream shows for the kids on Netflix and Amazon Prime. The quality does suffer some. But on our 26" TV, it's fine. A large 60" TV, I'm sure you could notice a difference. But overall, we don't usually have a problem with it. Our plan gives us 20GB per month limit. This includes uploads and downloads from 6am to 11pm. From 11pm to 6am there is bonus of 50GB. So if you can plan your uploads or downloads to those times, you can save on your limit. But even once you reach your limit, they just decrease speed. They don't ever cut you off completely (that I know of). Even with decreased speeds, we can still stream videos. We end up using up our 20GB data limit in about 20 days. No big deal to us.

We are able to skype/facetime successfully. It's not perfect as there is a lag on both ends. But it's not bad. Just takes a half a second and sometimes you both start talking at once. Overall, we don't use the internet a lot. The TV is off for 22.5 hours a day. My wife and I use our phones or tablet occasionally to check email, facebook pictures, etc. She will use pandora or amazon music while working around the house a little bit. But it works well for us. But again, it is our only option.

As mentioned, they will only install the dish in a fixed location. With that said, it wouldn't be hard to unmount and take it with you. Just takes a couple minutes to setup. In fact, the setup tech used his phone with a compass app and inclination meter to setup the dish. Quite simple really. So if you were resourceful, you could move it around.

Cost wise, for our 20GB plan, it will run us about $80/mo. Right now with signon perks, we are only paying about $55/mo. But that will change in a couple months up to full price. Install was $300 and that included all the hardware that we now own. You do have an option for free install, but then you have to pay the monthly rental fee for equipment of like $12/mo. If you are going to keep it for more than 2 years, it makes sense to buy up front and own it forever.

Hope this helps!

Offline Smurf Hunter

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Re: satellite internet ?
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2017, 10:41:04 AM »
In the context of relying on the internet for your livelihood, it's not sounding like satellite internet is ideal.

Offline Zef_66

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Re: satellite internet ?
« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2017, 10:47:00 AM »
In the context of relying on the internet for your livelihood, it's not sounding like satellite internet is ideal.

Oh, the other thing is that the internet will drop out in bad weather. If a hard rain or snow storm comes through, you will lose internet. Just happened for about an hour last night when a medium rain storm rolled in. I wanted to check the weather map, but we had no internet service because of the clouds and rain.

Offline Carl

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Re: satellite internet ?
« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2017, 02:24:31 PM »
Oh, the other thing is that the internet will drop out in bad weather. If a hard rain or snow storm comes through, you will lose internet. Just happened for about an hour last night when a medium rain storm rolled in. I wanted to check the weather map, but we had no internet service because of the clouds and rain.

That's not a problem...(in my best used car salesman voice) it's a weather app.

Offline shadowalker_returns

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Re: satellite internet ?
« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2017, 08:35:34 PM »
Have you thought about using a cell phone signal booster on a tall antenna? a boosted signal will increase your range. Latency will be better than with a sat and much better cost/performance ratio.

Regards,
Shadowalker

Offline chrisdfw

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Re: satellite internet ?
« Reply #20 on: August 23, 2017, 08:52:45 PM »
There are two types of satellite internet. One is what everyone has been referring to, and is fixed location, typically marketed to consumers in rural areas.

The other is the systems that operate on the same bands as satellite phones, these can be mobile. However, the bandwidth is more limited and it is extremely expensive for anything other than sending short messages.

I don't think either will meet your needs, but if you want to look into mobile satellite internet, research inmarsat or iridium. Check the rates.

Offline shadowalker_returns

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Re: satellite internet ?
« Reply #21 on: August 23, 2017, 09:24:34 PM »
There are two types of satellite internet. One is what everyone has been referring to, and is fixed location, typically marketed to consumers in rural areas.

The other is the systems that operate on the same bands as satellite phones, these can be mobile. However, the bandwidth is more limited and it is extremely expensive for anything other than sending short messages.

I don't think either will meet your needs, but if you want to look into mobile satellite internet, research inmarsat or iridium. Check the rates.

i used iridium when I was living aboard full-time. It did its job but it sucked. Cost was high for value except when absolutely nothing else was available I had phone comms. I have since switched to using cell phone range boosters when i can. If I was going bluewater again then I would probable invest in another sat phone though it would not be for internet. just emergency calls.

Regards,
Shadowalker

Offline Smurf Hunter

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Re: satellite internet ?
« Reply #22 on: August 23, 2017, 10:21:56 PM »
If I was going bluewater again then I would probable invest in another sat phone though it would not be for internet. just emergency calls.

Regards,
Shadowalker

No SSB?

Offline shadowalker_returns

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Re: satellite internet ?
« Reply #23 on: August 23, 2017, 11:18:39 PM »
SSB is required for commercial vessels. I would have it as well but Cell/satellite is a better tool for communication when practicality is needed.

There is so much more that can be done quickly with modern comms. There is no substitute for HF SSB. It also is not a substitute for a modern phone system.

Regards,
Shadowalker

Offline Carl

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Re: satellite internet ?
« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2017, 06:20:23 AM »
SSB is required for commercial vessels. I would have it as well but Cell/satellite is a better tool for communication when practicality is needed.

There is so much more that can be done quickly with modern comms. There is no substitute for HF SSB. It also is not a substitute for a modern phone system.

Regards,
Shadowalker

While Ham radio with SSB or digital modes is awesome,there is no better way to target a recipient than Sat phones in an emergency except maybe an air band transceiver with the 121.5 guard channel monitored by most aircraft. I do however use a long range WiFi antenna to access my home WiFi from my BOL almost 7 miles away,it is a 21 element yagi and I also use an outdoor ,at 20 feet high,vertical at my home.

Offline surfivor

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Re: satellite internet ?
« Reply #25 on: August 24, 2017, 08:04:28 AM »
 I have heard of tethering to an IPhone but it didn't occur to me that that would be a good option - get an IPhone and tether my laptop off of it with an unlimited data plan and use that for working from home. A guy told me that if I log onto ITunes with an IPhone it won't necessarily download all my audio books that I have on my IPod as that would take a lot of space.

 Anyway, I am thinking know that my mother's internet that I use may actually be DSL because I don't think it is FIOS so it must actually be pretty slow but it has worked ok for me working from home.

 Maybe I should go to an AT&T place, this guy at staples thought they may have better coverage although I may have heard claims Verizon is better but maybe it is only slight differences 


============

 possibly verizon is more liberal with tethering:

AT&T says:
With the exception of the AT&T Unlimited Plus plan, mobile hotspot and tethering is prohibited on AT&T unlimited plans (except for Connected Cars). If you try to set up a mobile hotspot with a device on one of these plans, you'll receive a notification to contact us or visit our website.

Verizon says:

Verizon charges $20 per month for tethering on top of your base data plan (which costs between $30 and $80), and it provides an extra 2GB of data per month. Sprint charges the most to use your phone as a hotspot: $30 in addition to your regular data plan (costs range from $30 to $100)

============

 The big point of doing a lot of this is to improve my quality of life eventually because I will be working more hours overall so I want flexibility and convenience from where I work from
« Last Edit: August 24, 2017, 08:29:50 AM by surfivor »

Offline Smurf Hunter

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Re: satellite internet ?
« Reply #26 on: August 24, 2017, 08:17:29 AM »
I have heard of tethering to an IPhone but it didn't occur to me that that would be a good option - get an IPhone and tether my laptop off of it with an unlimited data plan and use that for working from home. A guy told me that if I log onto ITunes with an IPhone it won't necessarily download all my audio books that I have on my IPod as that would take a lot of space.

 Anyway, I am thinking know that my mother's internet that I use may actually be DSL because I don't think it is FIOS so it must actually be pretty slow but it has worked ok for me working from home.

 Maybe I should go to an AT&T place, this guy at staples thought they may have better coverage although I may have heard claims Verizon is better but maybe it is only slight differences 


============

 possibly verizon is more liberal with tethering:

AT&T says:
With the exception of the AT&T Unlimited Plus plan, mobile hotspot and tethering is prohibited on AT&T unlimited plans (except for Connected Cars). If you try to set up a mobile hotspot with a device on one of these plans, you'll receive a notification to contact us or visit our website.

Verizon says:

Verizon charges $20 per month for tethering on top of your base data plan (which costs between $30 and $80), and it provides an extra 2GB of data per month. Sprint charges the most to use your phone as a hotspot: $30 in addition to your regular data plan (costs range from $30 to $100)

In urban areas T-Mobile has good coverage and they include tethering with most plans.  I use it pretty regularly, even to VPN from my laptop while riding the bus. No data limit, but in theory they might throttle.  Tethering consumes the same rate plan as normal data on your phone.
The trouble is, T-Mobile doesn't work so hot in rural areas compared with Verizon.

Offline Skispcs

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Re: satellite internet ?
« Reply #27 on: August 24, 2017, 08:58:48 PM »
I have Hughes Satellite Internet at my cabin and I despise it.
In the evenings I cannot even watch low resolution Youtube videos without buffering.
If I get on at 8am, I can VPN into my house in the city but it is so slow that getting work done is frustrating.

They use double NATing so forget about opening any ports on your router and trying any remote access stuff.
After 10GB a month you are rate limited unless you buy more credits.

I would use anything else if I could but there is nothing else, no cell signal, no DSL, even dialup doesn't work over the phone line. 

Offline surfivor

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Re: satellite internet ?
« Reply #28 on: August 25, 2017, 09:04:34 AM »
 I got an IPhone 7 from Verizon last night with 128Meg of memory and finally it's turned on and working. I tried it as a hotspot for a short while and it seemed to be good but I am back on my mother's internet so as to not burn up data any faster than need be.

 I am still a contractor so I jumped the gun a little but I was kind of ready to switch to a new phone with better possibilities anyway.

 I think I pay $130 a month which includes $11 insurance, a payment to own the phone and something like $90 for the unlimited service which is 15 gig of high speed data per month and 3G at around 600 kbps after that runs out.