Poll

We are relocating from WA to TX? What is the best area to live a self-reliant life? (Water, resources, permaculture, jobs, etc.)

Tyler, Athens, Longview, Marshall (East of Dallas about 1-2 hours)
3 (37.5%)
North of San Antonion (Hill Country)
4 (50%)
Texarkana, Atlanta, Mt Pleasant (NE Corner)
1 (12.5%)

Total Members Voted: 8

Voting closed: January 10, 2013, 03:32:31 PM

Author Topic: Relocating to Texas - Advice Welcome!  (Read 1432 times)

Offline Mental Arson

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Relocating to Texas - Advice Welcome!
« on: December 29, 2012, 01:11:44 AM »
We live North of Seattle.
On 11/7/2012 we finalized our long-brewing decision to relocate to Texas.
Coming from the land of trees, hills and lakes (and no extreme weather events) the hill country looks very inviting.
9 to 14 productive, freedom-loving Blue-State refugees.

Since several family members woke up on Wednesday morning 11/7 and were thinking the same thing, I figured we may not be alone in the country so I got a domain name and FB page to start tracking the process in case it's of value to anyone else. http://bluestaterefugees.com

I'm a web developer so I can live and work anywhere I can get reliable broad band Internet access. Bro drives truck and runs heavy equipment so he needs to be around more population. He could work in the oil fields, but he wants to live in the hill country and not leave his family for a week at a time.

We're selling our stuff to lighten the load and pay off debts. I have a house full of things I thought I needed, but that's getting paired down to a little furniture, a bed, a table and all the tools I can carry.

I really want to buy 10 acres with a livable house on the very edge of wired broad band access. We want to be connected to our neighbors, but have a comfortable buffer, good water source, etc. I'd really like a little elevation drop and a bit of a view because we're moving from a view-rich situation. Dead-flat kinda freaks me out a bit.

Property: The plan is to rent for a while near Canyon Lake/Blanco/Wimberley so we can get to know the area. Like many I've taken a beating on my house and lost about $100K in equity. We won't have much for a down payment, and I can't afford another bone headed mistake whereby I loose thousands...

I figure it's unrealistic to be able to buy immediately...we want to live in our next house for the rest of our productive lives and set up all sorts of cool permaculture, aquaculture, sustainable food, etc.

I'll do my best to distill useful lessons and post them here in case anyone finds it useful.

ALL advice and probing questions are WELCOME!


EDIT: Thread title changed at sbmitt's request
« Last Edit: January 03, 2013, 12:40:32 PM by Mr. Bill »

Offline lettuceman

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Re: Relocating to Texas [Hill Country] - Advice Welcome!
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2012, 11:39:39 AM »
Please bring some rain with you.  I've only had .11" since Oct 17th.

Offline NotoriousAPP

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Re: Relocating to Texas [Hill Country] - Advice Welcome!
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2012, 03:57:15 PM »
PM me.  I moved to Austin  from a socialist welfare blue state 10 years ago and have never considered moving back.  I'd be happy to show you around and bounce some ideas off you.

Offline Doug

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Re: Relocating to Texas [Hill Country] - Advice Welcome!
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2012, 07:11:50 PM »
Look up http://thehumanpath.com/. I think Jack did an podcast with Sam Coffman

Offline Alex Shrugged

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Re: Relocating to Texas [Hill Country] - Advice Welcome!
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2012, 08:13:58 PM »
Wimberly is a sort of craftman's town so if you make things to sell, a lot of people from Austin travel to Wimberly to do shopping for knicknacks. I've always liked it and there is a Jewish summer camp out that way. Since I'm Jewish that interests me but since I realize others are not, it's probably not useful information.

I live in Williamson County. It's mostly farm/ranch country and very conservative. Building codes mostly apply to cities. In the county they are only concerned with proper septic tank construction. Otherwise, you are on your own.

One of my buddies lives in Hayes County. He seems to like it out there but in the Austin area you can reach any number if differing environments. In Bastrop County you can have a real feeling of being in the middle of a forest and it's only a few miles from the city of Austin proper.

Austin itself is a strange place... mostly socialists run it and the newspaper (Austin-American Statesman, http://www.statesman.com/ ) is worthless and the Austin Chronicle ( http://www.austinchronicle.com/ ) is even worse,  but one must be warned. Despite the more liberal standards of the city and the lax law enforcement (compared to other parts of Texas) it still surprises folks from out of state when an officer of the law tells you to stop doing something and you end up in jail because you didn't stop... immediately... and say "Yes, sir". Don't even THINK of uttering a profanity at these fine officers of the law or you will be given once chance to take it back before you are handcuffed and hauled off.

Just so you know.

BTW, I am a volunteer chaplain at the Travis County Jail so I get to see these bewildered and surprised folks come through the system.

Alex

Offline Pchitti

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Re: Relocating to Texas [Hill Country] - Advice Welcome!
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2012, 10:42:25 PM »
Beautiful area but VERY pricey. You would prob be able to do a lot better looking a little farther from Austin. Look for the areas that dont have a tourism base.

Hope your move goes well!

Offline hedgewitch

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Re: Relocating to Texas [Hill Country] - Advice Welcome!
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2012, 08:53:53 AM »
welcome to the hill country, and i agree with some of the others bring rain:) and you might look in the Llano, Brady, Mason areas for more affordable land.

Offline Mental Arson

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Re: Relocating to Texas [Hill Country] - Advice Welcome!
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2012, 01:30:06 PM »
Please bring some rain with you.  I've only had .11" since Oct 17th.
Yea...the water stewardship issue is something we are clueless about. We had 80 days of no rain in the summer and are making up for it now with several inches each week. (sorry...not rubbing it in...).
My wife is very tired of it, but we should be careful what we wish for.
I literally can't imagine what you're going through, and I plan to learn how to make the most of the water resources we can get.

Offline Mental Arson

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Re: Relocating to Texas [Hill Country] - Advice Welcome!
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2012, 01:38:44 PM »
Building codes mostly apply to cities. In the county they are only concerned with proper septic tank construction. Otherwise, you are on your own.
I'm very curious about doing an earth sheltered house to keep the long-term energy needs down OR at least to have an option to add a second dwelling for my mom if she moves down. The idea of building what we want as long as it doesn't contaminate the place sounds great!

Austin itself is a strange place... mostly socialists run it.
I'd like to be at least an hour from Austin. That's about how far I am from Seattle and I'm allergic to raging liberals. I work with a socialist but only get small doses. I think we're planning to lean toward San Antonio a little (30-60 min out of the city). My wife wants an annual pass to Seaworld and Six Flags....and they are near Costco.  :D We don't get out much so she wants to make up for lost FUN time when we can afford it.

Offline Mental Arson

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Re: Relocating to Texas [Hill Country] - Advice Welcome!
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2012, 01:57:28 PM »
you might look in the Llano, Brady, Mason areas for more affordable land.
Thank you for the recommendation. ...that's why we figure we should rent for 6mo...so we can prowl around the area as much as possible and find the best area for us to settle.

We are scouting for a multi-family migration as I plan to facilitate moving for anyone who wants their kids to grow up around traditional American values and freedom.

I like the idea of the "boonies" or 1+hr from any major city but I have to be close enough for 4-10Mbs cable/Internet.

My bro-in-law needs to be able to get a decent job driving a truck or equipment of some type. He runs road and bridge crews fro the county now and is pretty good at it...hasn't had his work ethic beaten out of him by the union yet.

<60 min to Costco is actually on my wife's list of requirements...which might seem crazy but she has a pretty short list so I'm working with it.

http://stanwoodview.com is our place, and we're surrounded by other people now.
I'd like 5-10 acres with a house in the middle so I can work with 3/4 acre and have a little space around us.

I'd like to be able to target shoot on my own property without the SWAT team showing up...and have my neighbors show up to join in, not FREAK out. Maybe take a deer when necessary on our land or nearby too.

Thanks to Jack I've swerved away from the hide-out mindset to the community mindset for long-term sustainability.
We LOVE people and we enjoy playing cards, being social, softball, camping, church, etc....but I'm done with having folks look INTO my house from other houses or nearby roads.

I want to know my neighbors and be around people with a similar appreciation for this country and desire to see the Constitution upheld. We don't all have to look at the world the same way or go to the same church...but if my neighbor needs our my help, I'm there, and it would be nice if they would return the favor.

...sorry...I guess I'm using this thread for a bit of therapy...I'll try not to over share.

Offline Mental Arson

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Re: Relocating to Texas [Hill Country] - Cross country transport
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2012, 02:16:47 PM »
Should I get a uHaul or an F250+tandem cargo trailer?
We have a high mileage 4cyl Ranger with no AC = Selling before move (~$750).
Second car is 2000 Camry with plenty of life left in it.

Buy an older F250 for $2,500-ish here or there?
I'd like an early 80's F250, but I'm debating on weather to buy here and use it to move or buy after we get there.
The idea of "testing" my new-to-me vehicle on a 2,200 mile move sounds like some stress exposure, but could be no problem.
I'm not a mechanic, but we have a friend who will help me check it out before we buy.

Buy a good used tandem cargo trailer for $2,500-ish?
We're selling almost everything so should be able to fit in a 7x12-14 cargo trailer.
Would do tandem to so we can manage the weight and tongue load better.
Then, when we get there we don't have to completely unload everything into our rental.
We could use the trailer for storage for tools, etc. and long term handy to have.

Rent a 17' uHaul and car dolly?
Fuel for only 1 vehicle.
Camry will take 95gal to drive there so putting it on a dolly would would save:
(95gal x $3.40/gal) - ($149 rent dolly) = $174 net savings + being in 1 vehicle together.

Loaded truck or uHaul estimated at 9mpg (2,200mi) ~ 250gal.

$1,331 = Truck rental with dolly.

Anyone who has moved cross country have recommendations?

Offline Mental Arson

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Re: Relocating to Texas: Drought is no joke...
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2012, 03:37:58 PM »
The hill country drought situation is no joke.
We're reconsidering the East TX area around Tyler.
Pine trees would remind me of WA, but I know the humidity will take a while to get used to.

If you want to develop a self-reliant life, but still have access to a decent local economy for a job, where in TX would you go?

Offline kevo

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Re: Relocating to Texas [Hill Country] - Advice Welcome!
« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2012, 04:41:00 PM »
I second the San Antonio route specifically because you'd be able to attend classes at The Human Path (http://www.thehumanpath.com) which would be awesome!

Offline ForgedPatriot

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Re: Relocating to Texas [Hill Country] - Advice Welcome!
« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2013, 07:32:44 AM »
Just my two cents worth, and yes I live in Texas, I can't tell you how many people I have heard say "If the crap hits the fan, we are headed to the hill country!". Yes, it is beautiful. Yes, there is opportunity in the San Antonio/Austin area. Is it going to be the most populated bug out spot in Texas if the "crap" hits the fan....possibly. Austin and San Antonio are already crowded, only to be descended upon by all the people that think they have a unique idea and a place to "get away" to.

Offline flippydidit

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Re: Relocating to Texas [Hill Country] - Cross country transport
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2013, 08:10:34 AM »
Should I get a uHaul or an F250+tandem cargo trailer?
We have a high mileage 4cyl Ranger with no AC = Selling before move (~$750).
Second car is 2000 Camry with plenty of life left in it.

Buy an older F250 for $2,500-ish here or there?
I'd like an early 80's F250, but I'm debating on weather to buy here and use it to move or buy after we get there.
The idea of "testing" my new-to-me vehicle on a 2,200 mile move sounds like some stress exposure, but could be no problem.
I'm not a mechanic, but we have a friend who will help me check it out before we buy.

Buy a good used tandem cargo trailer for $2,500-ish?
We're selling almost everything so should be able to fit in a 7x12-14 cargo trailer.
Would do tandem to so we can manage the weight and tongue load better.
Then, when we get there we don't have to completely unload everything into our rental.
We could use the trailer for storage for tools, etc. and long term handy to have.

Rent a 17' uHaul and car dolly?
Fuel for only 1 vehicle.
Camry will take 95gal to drive there so putting it on a dolly would would save:
(95gal x $3.40/gal) - ($149 rent dolly) = $174 net savings + being in 1 vehicle together.

Loaded truck or uHaul estimated at 9mpg (2,200mi) ~ 250gal.

$1,331 = Truck rental with dolly.

Anyone who has moved cross country have recommendations?
We have moved from Tennessee to Oregon.  Then we moved from Oregon to Colorado.  Then we moved from Colorado (and retrieved some belongings from Oregon) to Florida.  Then we moved from Florida to Oregon.  Then we moved from Oregon back to Florida.  Then we moved cross-state in Florida.  Every one of those moves was an "EVERYTHING WE OWN" move.  I wouldn't say we're professional movers, but we do have a lot of actual cross-COUNTRY experience.  We've done it many different ways.  If this is going to be your only long distance move, then get a U-Haul/Penske/Ryder truck and a car dolly.  You'll eliminate the larger risks by going this route.  How much extra is it worth it to you to make the trip without issues?

A rental truck with a proper service agreement will ensure you don't stay broke down in the middle of Nowhere, USA.  There is a weight limit on all vehicles, so make sure you don't overload the vehicle you'll be driving (a long story that involved burning out the brakes coming down through the mountains-SCARY).  Trusting your personal car to tow an enclosed trailer with weight on a cross-country drive is risky.  Even assuming you have AAA, the tow truck that picks you up isn't going to tow you all the way to Texas.  Spend the money and rent a truck.  It'll keep you from getting gray hairs.  I'd also wait on buying a truck of your own until you get to Texas.  It's a supply and demand issue.  There are probably more trucks in Texas than all of the PNW.  Just a guess.  And I was born and raised in Oregon.

Take the time to over-pack everything that goes into the truck.  It's time and money well spent.  There's no point in paying to transport your "stuff" all that distance if it arrives broken or unusable.

Hope this helps!

Offline Mental Arson

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Re: Relocating to Texas [Hill Country] - Cross country transport
« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2013, 01:20:41 PM »
We have moved from Tennessee to Oregon.  Then we moved from Oregon to Colorado.  Then we moved from Colorado (and retrieved some belongings from Oregon) to Florida.  Then we moved from Florida to Oregon.  Then we moved from Oregon back to Florida.  Then we moved cross-state in Florida.
--
A rental truck with a proper service agreement will ensure you don't stay broke down in the middle of Nowhere, USA
--
Spend the money and rent a truck.  It'll keep you from getting gray hairs.  I'd also wait on buying a truck of your own until you get to Texas.
--
Take the time to over-pack everything that goes into the truck.  It's time and money well spent.  There's no point in paying to transport your "stuff" all that distance if it arrives broken or unusable.
Flippy, your HARD earned advice is much appreciated. Though you may not be "professional" you're a seasoned moving veteran for sure. I hope you've been able to settle in where you are now.
I was kinda leaning toward the rental, but your advice helps tip it.
We'll probably end up moving twice in the next 12-16 months.
1) Move to the area of expected operations and rent for 6mo to make sure and shop for a property.
2) Buy and settle in. The local renal will be nothing...or we can always buy a trailer there if we feel the need.

Offline Mental Arson

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Re: Relocating to Texas [Hill Country] - Advice Welcome!
« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2013, 01:25:47 PM »
Just my two cents worth, and yes I live in Texas, I can't tell you how many people I have heard say "If the crap hits the fan, we are headed to the hill country!". Yes, it is beautiful. Yes, there is opportunity in the San Antonio/Austin area. Is it going to be the most populated bug out spot in Texas if the "crap" hits the fan....possibly. Austin and San Antonio are already crowded, only to be descended upon by all the people that think they have a unique idea and a place to "get away" to.
...yea...when considering the challenge of growing things there I started to have second thoughts. Beating the "rush" in this situation is good, but if the rush comes it's nasty. Being 1hr from 2 large cities is an operational concern worth some serious consideration.

Moving from the PNW to E-TX pine trees should be a reasonable transition for us...and may be the most reliable long-term plan. The shit may not exactly hit the fan, but the shit is already getting deep and it will get deeper as downward class migration pushes us into it. Fast or slow, people may get the urge to escape it.  :o

Offline ForgedPatriot

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Re: Relocating to Texas [Hill Country] - Advice Welcome!
« Reply #17 on: January 01, 2013, 01:46:23 PM »
...yea...when considering the challenge of growing things there I started to have second thoughts. Beating the "rush" in this situation is good, but if the rush comes it's nasty. Being 1hr from 2 large cities is an operational concern worth some serious consideration.

Moving from the PNW to E-TX pine trees should be a reasonable transition for us...and may be the most reliable long-term plan. The shit may not exactly hit the fan, but the shit is already getting deep and it will get deeper as downward class migration pushes us into it. Fast or slow, people may get the urge to escape it.  :o

East Texas is your best bet IMO. I just spent some time there a couple of days ago, lots of land around to be had. Just depends on what you are looking for.

Offline flippydidit

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Re: Relocating to Texas [Hill Country] - Cross country transport
« Reply #18 on: January 01, 2013, 09:10:41 PM »
Flippy, your HARD earned advice is much appreciated. Though you may not be "professional" you're a seasoned moving veteran for sure. I hope you've been able to settle in where you are now.
I was kinda leaning toward the rental, but your advice helps tip it.
We'll probably end up moving twice in the next 12-16 months.
1) Move to the area of expected operations and rent for 6mo to make sure and shop for a property.
2) Buy and settle in. The local renal will be nothing...or we can always buy a trailer there if we feel the need.

Hopefully within 6 months you'll have also been developing your network with like-minded individuals.  Some of our local move was done with the help of friends in our preparedness group.  One of them volunteered the use of his bread truck (tactical SWAT doughnut delivery, as we call it).  You may also have purchased your own truck and/or trailer by then as well.

Offline Doug

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Re: Relocating to Texas [Hill Country] - Advice Welcome!
« Reply #19 on: January 01, 2013, 09:25:06 PM »
this is was the area north of Fort Worth along the Red River looks like







The area around Jacksboro is also hilly
http://www.landsoftexas.com/land-for-sale/413-acres-in-Jack-County-Texas/id/1137956

Here's an interactive map on how the last presidential election went by county. Notice that Oklahoma was all red/conservative. Texas is mostly conservative except in places like Dallas and Austin. If that's important to you.

Lawton, OK has army base Fort Sill and the Wichita Mountains (about an hour north of Wichita Falls Texas). The Wichita's have good hiking and camping: https://www.google.com/search?q=wichita+mountains&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=6Yb&tbo=u&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ei=lLHjUISdMMatqgHj4ICIDw&ved=0CEYQsAQ&biw=1920&bih=959

Eastern Oklahoma has the Ouachita Mountains. You would be close from Paris and esp Texarkana
https://www.google.com/search?q=oklahoma+ouachita+mountains&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=M7TjULbEIITMrQGi_YC4Bg&biw=1920&bih=959&sei=N7TjUOo2hdWoAcWlgJgG

Offline Mental Arson

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Re: Relocating to Texas [Hill Country] - Advice Welcome!
« Reply #20 on: January 01, 2013, 10:44:48 PM »
WOW...Doug THANK YOU for taking the time to show us around.

That is just amazing looking country.
We are excited to get out of here, but we'll need to play it cool for a bit and wait to sell our house.
I've jumped the gun a few too many times in my life...trying to make wise prudent decisions this time.

If you know anyone N/NE of Dallas who has a guest house they'd like to rent out...keep us in mind around August.

May I post your photos on BlueStateRefugees.com?

Offline Doug

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Re: Relocating to Texas [Hill Country] - Advice Welcome!
« Reply #21 on: January 02, 2013, 08:28:14 AM »
Sorry, I don't know anyone in the NNE area of Texas. And sure you can post those photos. I actually just pulled those from google images.

Offline ForgedPatriot

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Re: Relocating to Texas [Hill Country] - Advice Welcome!
« Reply #22 on: January 02, 2013, 06:33:00 PM »
If you know anyone N/NE of Dallas who has a guest house they'd like to rent out...keep us in mind around August.

I have a cousin that lives in Frisco, TX. If I hear anything I will PM you.

Offline jm_sol

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Re: Relocating to Texas [Hill Country] - Advice Welcome!
« Reply #23 on: January 03, 2013, 11:26:40 AM »
Tyler is nice. Marshall tx is as well.  Old old song about towns along the way " timpson, teneha, bobo and Blair". The hi way 59 corridor between corrigan and Marshall is very agri and timber. We have our place just outside Texarkana while we live around houston. Thus we see a lot of those areas on our way to the farm.

Offline Mental Arson

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Re: Relocating to Texas: Piney Woods
« Reply #24 on: January 03, 2013, 12:28:39 PM »
Tyler is nice. Marshall tx is as well.  The hi way 59 corridor between corrigan and Marshall is very agri and timber. Thus we see a lot of those areas on our way to the farm.
Thank you for sharing. Marshall, Longview and the outlying area are definitely on the radar.

I want to be a Texan. I'm not one of these ass-clouds that moves to an area then tries to change (wreck) it. We are Conservative, patriotic hard working folks. I'm assuming most of our new neighbors would be a bit skeptical at first of another blue-stater moving in.

The difference is that here in WA, 3 years later I still wouldn't know any of my neighbors. In TX, I'm assuming after 3 years I'm going hunting/target shooting with my neighbors as well as playing cards, having a BBQ or watching their pets while they go on vacation.

My wife got a very nice vibe from the folks around San Antonio. I'm willing to bet people are equally pleasant in NE TX.
Is that a fair assumption?

[SIDEBAR] The guy in the office next to me said his dad grew up in Tyler. Back in the 50-70's it was a big spot for the KKK based on his experience. We are white, and I don't care if someone is purple as long as they have good character. I'm just curious if most of the racism is history or still an active thread in the culture.

Offline Mental Arson

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Re: Relocating to Texas [Hill Country] - Advice Welcome!
« Reply #25 on: January 03, 2013, 08:21:36 PM »
We have our place just outside Texarkana while we live around houston.
What is the word on Texarkana? That looks like beautiful country. Any chance my brother could get a decent paying job up there? Schools and sports programs decent?

Offline ForgedPatriot

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Re: Relocating to Texas - Advice Welcome!
« Reply #26 on: January 05, 2013, 07:26:45 PM »
Quote
The difference is that here in WA, 3 years later I still wouldn't know any of my neighbors. In TX, I'm assuming after 3 years I'm going hunting/target shooting with my neighbors as well as playing cards, having a BBQ or watching their pets while they go on vacation.

In most places, yes. It's a crap shoot in the burbs, but out in the country, yes.

Quote
[SIDEBAR] The guy in the office next to me said his dad grew up in Tyler. Back in the 50-70's it was a big spot for the KKK based on his experience. We are white, and I don't care if someone is purple as long as they have good character. I'm just curious if most of the racism is history or still an active thread in the culture.

I have been in Texas all my life, and every once in a while you may hear something about this type of activity, but in all honesty it is very rare. Now, that's not to say that in certain communities/small towns you won't find some folks still clinging to that type of belief. 99% of the time you will find that ALL races of folks out in the country here in Texas are hard working and law abiding. Don't let the talk of racism and the klan keep you from a good thing.

Offline Mental Arson

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Re: Relocating to Texas - Advice Welcome!
« Reply #27 on: January 06, 2013, 12:07:55 AM »
Don't let the talk of racism and the klan keep you from a good thing.
I figured it was old news.

I'd like to be convincingly in the pine woods area, but my wife is pretty insistent on being about an hour from Dallas.
That still leaves a boat load of country to explore when we get down there.
We plan to play it cool while we sort out our financial issues then move at the tail end of August.
I'm sure it will be a shock to our system, but we can enjoy one more summer in WA then shake the dust from our feet and move on.

I truly appreciate everyone's thoughts and feedback.

Please feel free to add your 2 cents, for us and the next family of blue state refugees.

Offline Doug

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Re: Relocating to Texas - Advice Welcome!
« Reply #28 on: January 06, 2013, 11:47:31 AM »
I won't look to being close to Dallas unless there were relatives/friends that I wanted to be close to. The smaller cities around Dallas have all the same things to offer and aren't as hectic and traffic. I'm maybe an hour and a half (depending upon traffic) and still relatively out in the boonies. I don't have pine forests though. If you can be within reason of an interstate highway you can get to Dallas quickly.

Offline TexDaddy

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Re: Relocating to Texas - Advice Welcome!
« Reply #29 on: January 06, 2013, 09:42:15 PM »
I stay completely out of Dallas as much as humanly possible.

"Fort Worth is where the West begins. Dallas is were the east peters out."

Dallas so wants to be like New York City, except they don't have a chance.